Trading Bibby/Miller for expirings/draft picks

[Bricklayer]

WOW!!!!!!!!!! ok here you go.. sorry for using profanity against your mother or something cause thats really rude... oh i forgot i used caps lock and i actually didnt use profanity against your mother

Cool it.

 

[KINGSFAN-FROM-L.A.]

once again i get attacked for doing nothing

 

[SacTownKid]

No we didn't. But there is NOTHING more demoralizign for a fanbase, or worse for the arena, than wallowing in depressing, boring mediocrity. many many people here are scared of rebuilding. but rebuilding brings hope, youth, excitement, and a renewal of wacky delusions of grandeur. Every rook is a future all star etc.

Fantasy is fantasy. Reality is reality. "Rebuilding" is Portland. Years and years of suckitude.

The players we have aren't in their mid 30's. They don't have cap killing contracts. They are movable. We have some pretty good prospects in Martin, Garcia, Price, and Douby already. Our owners are gamblers but 1st and foremost they want to win and win now. And they are willing to pay the price for it!

The next logical move is that the coach brings in some players that fit what he wants to do, or fit better with the core of the team. Whomever that may be.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Fantasy is fantasy. Reality is reality. "Rebuilding" is Portland. Years and years of suckitude.

The players we have aren't in their mid 30's. They don't have cap killing contracts. They are movable. We have some pretty good prospects in Martin, Garcia, Price, and Douby already. Our owners are gamblers but 1st and foremost they want to win and win now. And they are willing to pay the price for it!

The next logical move is that the coach brings in some players that fit what he wants to do, or fit better with the core of the team. Whomever that may be.

Um, no. Rebuilding is what the Lakers did. Suck for a year, got a promising, talented big from the draft, filled in between. And now they are pretty up there. Wouldn't say NBA contenders yet, but they are a season or two away. What Portland is doing is not "Re"-building, they're just destroying.

And if you notice something about ALL of our prospects, is that they're all guards. Our frontline is the weakest link in the team. This draft is particularly loaded with promising bigs. There is nothing wrong with unloading some old core guys (Bibby), sucking for a year, picking up a potential franchise big, and filling in between.

 

[xyrin]

I think we should try to work something out with Charlotte. Maybe try to get Sean May or Okafor? Sean May has been showing that he has some potential lately, and he is only what, 22 or 23? Okafor is the better player, and a great blocker, but I don't see the Bobcats trading him. We might also try to get a pick out of the deal.

Or we could try to trade for Al Jefferson, who i think has potential to be a great player. The Celtics are probably looking to win now because Pierce is getting up there in age. Why not something like Bibby and Miller for West and Jefferson?

What do you guys think? Sure, we have a promising star in Martin... but a shooting guard is such a common position and its easy to get somebody who shoots well. A young, rising PF or Center is much more valuable than a rising shooting guard...

 

[King]

Um, no. Rebuilding is what the Lakers did. Suck for a year, got a promising, talented big from the draft, filled in between. And now they are pretty up there. Wouldn't say NBA contenders yet, but they are a season or two away. What Portland is doing is not "Re"-building, they're just destroying.

Sorry, but I have to disagree.
Rebuilding almost every time means that you suck for a couple of years, cause you need those top draft picks, to re-build your team.
A team with Kobe Bryant on its roster isnt rebuilding, especially not when there's also a guy like Lamar Odom next to him.

For every rebuild like the Lakers or Hornets did, there are at least 2 rebuilds like the Bulls, Hawks and Blazers did and still do.

BTW: I liked your idea of trading Bibby to the Sonics but I would look to pry Ridnour instead of Watson away from them.


@xyrin:
I dont see a deal between us and the Bobcats.
They dont need Bibby(already have Felton) or Miller(doubt they'd take on his contract).
If we'd deal with the Celtics, than we'd have to take on either Ratliff or Szcerbiack and if we'd try to trade them both Bibby and Miller, than we'd probably have to take on both and that makes no sense at all.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If we'd deal with the Celtics, than we'd have to take on either Ratliff or Szcerbiack and if we'd try to trade them both Bibby and Miller, than we'd probably have to take on both and that makes no sense at all.

I posted in another thread that if the Celtics lose out on AI too we may be natural trading partners. I checked on Real GM and we could do Bibby and Garcia for Jefferson, Ratliff and either West or Telfair.

 

[King]

I posted in another thread that if the Celtics lose out on AI too we may be natural trading partners. I checked on Real GM and we could do Bibby and Garcia for Jefferson, Ratliff and either West or Telfair.

Yeah, but do you think they'll trade Jefferson for Bibby(who could opt out), when they didn't wanted to part with him for Iverson?

I don't think so and that's why I doubt that there'd be a deal between us and the Celtics.

The best option I see is with the Sonics, if we could get Fortson(expiring), Ridnour + Pick.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Celts were apparently willing to part with Jeff, its Green they won't give up.

 

[King]

Celts were apparently willing to part with Jeff, its Green they won't give up.

As far as I know, they werent willing to part with neither Jeff nor Green and tried something like Ratliff, West, Allen or Telfair and a pick for Iverson.
It wouldnt have made any sense for them to trade him, as they're pretty thin up front.

 

[hearns]

What about Bibby for Magloire+ Jarrett Jack? Magloire is expiring, and Jack is an all around player, good defender, young. His 3 point shoot is still raw though.

And for Brad Miller, I would wait to trade him in the offseason. I think some teams under the cap with athletic PFs, like Orlando (Howard) or Charlotte (Okafor) would trade a future pick for him, and I prefer a pick than a bad contract or a (much) less talented player.

 

[Bricklayer]

What about Bibby for Magloire+ Jarrett Jack? Magloire is expiring, and Jack is an all around player, good defender, young. His 3 point shoot is still raw though.

And for Brad Miller, I would wait to trade him in the offseason. I think some teams under the cap with athletic PFs, like Orlando (Howard) or Charlotte (Okafor) would trade a future pick for him, and I prefer a pick than a bad contract or a (much) less talented player.

a) takes two to tango -- that is why putting Bibby with a team ready to contend makes sense. They will overpay to get the mjissing piece. Portland on the other hand is in the middle of a youth movement

b) froma talent perspective I would only consider such a move if we were serious about trying to resign Magloire - Jarret Jack will never be Mike Bobby, or anywhere close

 

[Starting Five]

That Boston trade idea sounds like it might work..I wouldn't throw in Garcia and I don't think Boston would trade Jefferson at all..maybe,

Bibby for Telfair, Ratliff and Perkins and a pick? We get two big bodies and a guard and probably a high draft pick.

 

[Bricklayer]

That Boston trade idea sounds like it might work..I wouldn't throw in Garcia and I don't think Boston would trade Jefferson at all..maybe,

Bibby for Telfair, Ratliff and Perkins and a pick? We get two big bodies and a guard and probably a high draft pick.

Would ratehr have West than Telfair -- who might be a bust. And Jefferson than Perkins, who is a roleplayer. Ratliff is actually probably done for the year with his back, and maybe for his career. But he's just salary. In any case, who knows? Doubt that anything could be done though until the A.I. saga is completed and the celtics can be sure they won't get him.

 

[nbrans]

Just as a side note, I think GMs are going to have to be really, truly convinced that KG is not on the block before they make trades for guys like Bibby, so any Bibby deals will probably have to wait until either a) KG is traded or b) two minutes before the deadline.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Just as a side note, I think GMs are going to have to be really, truly convinced that KG is not on the block before they make trades for guys like Bibby, so any Bibby deals will probably have to wait until either a) KG is traded or b) two minutes before the deadline.

Agreed. Everyone's lining up for the KGs and Iversons, and will want the Bibbys as a consolation prize only after.

 

[kingsfan101]

Just as a side note, I think GMs are going to have to be really, truly convinced that KG is not on the block before they make trades for guys like Bibby, so any Bibby deals will probably have to wait until either a) KG is traded or b) two minutes before the deadline.

Guess only a few teams shall wait for KG, given that very few teams shall have the combination of players that shall match the salary, as well as satisfy the Wolves (picks, cap, some promising guys). Chicago is the one constantly mentioned. Of course, if he comes on the market, lot of teams that are coy right now, might bend over backwards to make those guys available who are now considered untouchable.

Also, while Cleveland, Boston and Chicago are being mentioned as the teams who might be interested in one of our mainstays, another interesting team could be Heat (for Mike), or even Detroit (for Miller). Both these teams need to win now, and won't mind the extra help when they face each other in the ECF, or the NBA finals, if they make it. Miller is an upgrade over Nazr, and Bibby over JW. Wonder if they have anything though, that can interest us. Their picks, if they offer, shall be too low to make them very enticing..

 

[SacTownKid]

Um, no. Rebuilding is what the Lakers did. Suck for a year, got a promising, talented big from the draft, filled in between. And now they are pretty up there. Wouldn't say NBA contenders yet, but they are a season or two away. What Portland is doing is not "Re"-building, they're just destroying.

And if you notice something about ALL of our prospects, is that they're all guards. Our frontline is the weakest link in the team. This draft is particularly loaded with promising bigs. There is nothing wrong with unloading some old core guys (Bibby), sucking for a year, picking up a potential franchise big, and filling in between.

They have Kobe Bryant. They didn't just "suck for a year". And they aren't "up there" because of their promising young big either. They kept the main part of their core together and they are doing well, in schedule and in their gameplan.

 

[SacTownKid]

I don't understand going on the assumption, or better yet, illusion of promise, besides going on the reality that Mike Bibby is much better than the PG or player we would be getting back. The question is who fits into to this new identity, whatever than may be at this point. The great teams are the ones that forumlate their gameplan the best.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't understand going on the assumption, or better yet, illusion of promise, besides going on the reality that Mike Bibby is much better than the PG or player we would be getting back. The question is who fits into to this new identity, whatever than may be at this point. The great teams are the ones that forumlate their gameplan the best.

No, the great teams are the ones who find a great player who DETERMINES their identity. Basically all of them have drafted a megastud, and then knwoing who the leader was, and how he plays, have built teams centered around his talent. Until we get that player (ala Webb in the old days) we can't build a coherent team that will go anywhere. Its building on a foundation of sand. You can always get a coach with a very rigid/detereminged style, but again wihtout the great player to back him up he just becomes Scott Skiles and wins 41 for you every year. We need a stud. The rest will follow naturally.

 

[VF21]

No, the great teams are the ones who find a great player who DETERMINES their identity.

And that should be added to the list of absolute NBA truths.

 

[SacTownKid]

No, the great teams are the ones who find a great player who DETERMINES their identity. Basically all of them have drafted a megastud, and then knwoing who the leader was, and how he plays, have built teams centered around his talent. Until we get that player (ala Webb in the old days) we can't build a coherent team that will go anywhere. Its building on a foundation of sand. You can always get a coach with a very rigid/detereminged style, but again wihtout the great player to back him up he just becomes Scott Skiles and wins 41 for you every year. We need a stud. The rest will follow naturally.

What team doesn't have a "stud" in relative terms. Put Duncan on the Bobcats. Or KG on the Wolves. Do you have a championship team?

 

[Bricklayer]

What team doesn't have a "stud" in relative terms. Put Duncan on the Bobcats. Or KG on the Wolves. Do you have a championship team?

Think you're missing the point. No, not imediately. But now you know how to build one, and they WOULD get dramatically better. You know who the man is going to be, and you start filling in with complimentary players. You have a gameplan, and a star who can make it work. And now everybody can start to settle into roles and know who they have to fit around Think people just have this instinctual urge to deny what has always been a basic underpinning fact of the NBA -- you need a main man. A true, pure, All-Star, at elast fringe MVP caliber, possible HOF main man, in order to win it. We've pretty much got one exception maybe ever to that rule: the Pistons of a few years back. And they too had a powerful driving force behind them, not to mention a HOF coach (overrated though he may be).

 

[pejafans]

i totally agree
it's time to give up this year to rebulid
look at what the suns do when they trade marbury to newyork for nothing but expriing contract and then sign nash the following summer

 

[tyrant]

i totally agree
it's time to give up this year to rebulid
look at what the suns do when they trade marbury to newyork for nothing but expriing contract and then sign nash the following summer

and the phoenix suns have and never will make it out the west. thier best player is a point guard thats 32 years old. (not going anywhere for a while, grab a snickers).

 

[El_Filibusterismo]

Once teams get wind of a blowing-things-up plan the value of Kings players sink like a stone and you're lucky to end up with a team's garbage contracts.

Anyone think that the Kings Org is taking this into account? If we give up on a season (any season) and have a fire sale, every team in the NBA will either low ball or wait until we are absolutely desperate.

Maybe Petrie is using the illusion of competing as a smokescreen to effectively dump salary and contracts for a later free agent signing and/or draft pick. The next two draft classes look to be deep. Darko and OJ Mayo anyone?

 

[chelle]

Hey, it's already starting. In comments from last night's game he slapped Bibby in the face by saying he now needs to learn how to guard two players because Bibby isn't guarding his man. And then he knocks Muss' defensive schemes. I personally think he's right about Bibby and Muss, but he's saying it to the media when he shouldn't. I give him about another 3 losses and he's going to be saying a lot more. You don't get a chance to build around this guy - he won't let you. Unless this team goes out and wins 2 of the next 3, he'll be making more comments. I like Ron, but he's the piece to add to a good team - he's not the piece to build around.

I SOOO missed that. When and where did he say it? I HATE when things like that happen. I prefer that it be said, BUT said "in-house."

 

[Bricklayer]

I SOOO missed that. When and where did he say it? I HATE when things like that happen. I prefer that it be said, BUT said "in-house."

It was in the Bee article after the Warriors game. The cut about guarding two player may not have even been aimed at Bibby -- that came a couple of weeks agao after the FIRST Warriors beating. It was I think aimed at whoever was guarding Matt, which wasn't Mike. The second one was definitely aimed at Muss. In any case, both unfortunately had the definite undertone of "hey, its not my fault, I can't do it all when surrounded by incompetence" .

 

[SacTownKid]

Here is another reason I would be reluctant to rebuild by dumping Bibby or any core player for draft picks and basically purposely putting a loser on the floor. We have trade assets. When teams, like Philly for example, have no trade assets it probably makes sense to go for a youth movement. Well, basically because you have no choice. You can't make a trade and bring in the right pieces to build a winner in less than a few years. I think we have that option right now. We have plenty of trade chips to possibely make a splash. Dump them for a draft pick and I don't think the picks hold as much tangible value as the talent assembled on our current roster.

 

[Bricklayer]

Dump them for a draft pick and I don't think the picks hold as much tangible value as the talent assembled on our current roster.

No...they possibly hold MORE value. That is always the thing. And possibly MORE value with a longer future. You aren't going to win by churning over pieces -- we don't have enough talent. We need to turn those pieces into more valubale pieces...or of course lose to get more valuable pieces. If you trade Mike Bibby, Brad Miller and Reef, and come out of it with let's say two Top 10 lottery picks (for being bad), and 1 or 2 more in the 11-20 range (via trade) + a kid or 2...you damn well might have more talent, or at least as much. And you will have 10+ years of it rather than 3-5. Of course the real reason yoiu do that is you are looking for just ONE superior talent, one true superstar.