Trade deadline approaching for Kings

[kingsboi]

why trade for Ibaka now? Teams should and most likely will try to outbid each other for his services. He will be chasing the mula.

 

[allrightythen]

I love Ibaka next to Cousins, WCS is showing life and that contract makes him a major flight risk. I doubt the Kings even have the value to get him here.

 

[twslam07]

If you make POs and Pels don't, you can approach Jrue Holiday/a few other guys and say "Hey, we are a PO team with the best big in the game and a lot of flexibility. Come back to California! You are an upgrade to our PO team, that finished last season very strong. Let's see, what we can do next year!"
Blazers just like this season had very easy second part of the schedule, so people assumed they are as good as half a season record. That's how perception is created. And Kings had a new coach and a bunch of new players, so if they finish 20-15, that's how they will be looked at going into the summer.

But what significant FAs did Portland sign? I'm not sure I understand your point there.

I'm not saying we couldn't sign Holiday but I would say that it's not likely. You can also say that it's not likely that a pick pans out but at least that pick will hold value that can be traded. Not signing a player leaves us with no value.

I indeed forgot about 1st rounder, but it's not Kings' one, it's worst of Kings/Sixers, so if Sixers refuse to tank, you are likely looking at something around #10, where there are no game-changing talent.

That's simply not true. Even at 10 you have guys like Fox or Ntilikina who could be game changers and our PG of the future.

Don't know, if Vlade considered this, when doing that trade or just stumbled into it by accident, but he borrowed the classic from game theory: make a commitment and then put your back against the wall to show everyone, you're sicking to it - when you have a lack of credibility, you have to walk an extra mile. In other words, Kings are going push for wins no matter what as long as Boogie is healthy.

Not saying that isn't true, but that doesn't make his direction right.


EDIT: Also, the math with Holiday doesn't quite add up. If we sign Bogdanovic (who will probably be around $7-8 mil a year), waive Afflalo, waive Tolliver, do not submit a QO for McLemore, lose our pick to CHI (no cap hold on the 1st), and give up our bird rights on Collison (no cap hold anymore), we'd have about $24.5 mil in cap space left. I think that's enough to sign Holiday (if he wants to come here), but you're not really going to have much left afterwards. You more than likely wouldn't have enough to resign one of Collison, Lawson, Casspi let alone all of them (not that we'd need both Collison & Lawson if we signed Holiday). So you'd have this team going into next year:

PG - Holiday
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Barnes / Gay
PF - Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis

That team still has a lot of question marks (SF, PF, & backup PG) without much cap to work with.

 

[twslam07]

I can see both sides of this argument, however I think you may have overlooked an important element when it comes to losing. This team NEEDS a culture change. We've been losing for too long and in my opinion, losing breeds more losing. Tanking another season (or 2, or 3) could push some people over the edge. I'm talking fans, players, coaches, management all could bail out in varying degrees. We're left with more doom and gloom, more national media stereotypes, more dysfunction.

Luckily the opposite could happen if we push for the playoffs. Winning breeds winning and let's get things straight, playoffs is winning. Forget the record. We make the playoffs and the narrative starts to change. Maybe we make a couple more savvy signings (a la Temple, Tolliver, Lawson), maybe even pick up a young player or two along the way. Meanwhile the young players we already have, get a taste of a winning environment and it helps them to grow. Suddenly we're battling for the playoffs every year. The players are into it, the media are into it, the fans are definitely into it. There's positivity in the arena, media and locker room. Eventually we start to dream bigger. We don't just want playoffs we want a contender! But all that takes time. That's why people are reluctant to take that step back, we've only just started on the road recovery (again!). Do we really want to jump straight back into that losing mentality and pray we hit in the draft?

It's a fair argument and one I understand and respect. But talent is just as important as the culture. You need both to be a top team. We seem to have the right guy for the culture so yes go get the talent.

I don't agree with your point about "forgetting the record" just because you miss the playoffs. If you win 25 games and make the playoffs, are you now this attractive team? I don't think so. You're choosing to ignore the context which can get you into trouble from time to time.

Sure, we can hope that we'd be able to sign a 2nd star in FA but looking at our history, what's the likelihood of that happening? Our 1st this year is probably the best chance at us getting another star next to Cousins. I'd rather this team not bleed talent if we can help it.

 

[twslam07]

Keith SmithVerified account‏@KeithSmithNBA
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Sources indicate Orlando has had several offers for Serge Ibaka, but continue to hold out for a package that includes young players/picks.

Sporting News posted this also:

“They’re asking too much,” one front office executive said. “(The Magic) would probably like to make a few moves there, but Ibaka is the one they’re really pushing because he is going to leave. But they have had too high a price. They want a young player and a pick, two young players — you know, a package that can get them back some assets. They’re not going to get that. Not for three, maybe four months of Serge Ibaka.”


got laughed in the previous thread for Ibaka trades, probably would have to give up one or two of WCS, Richardson, Skal to get it done though. Obviously need a guarantee that Ibaka would re-sign as well which is a big risk.

With our FA history, we shouldn't be trading assets for expirings. Trading for Ibaka doesn't make sense for us right now.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Brandon Knight for DC/Barnes

Suns gets short rent of vets for their young core and gets out of of Knight's contract because Booker is cementing that starting SG spot now.
We get another Kentucky stud and a younger and better wing option than what DC is.

Kings should be riding on Lawson's resurgence instead of trying to force DC to be significant again. We missed a Rudy trade. We should not miss one for DC.

Follow it up with Affalo/KK for Melo

And Kings end up with:
DMC/Papa/WCS
WCS/Tolliver/Skal
Melo/Casspi
Temple/Malachi
Knight/Lawson

 

[c-webb1s#1]

Keith SmithVerified account‏@KeithSmithNBA
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Sources indicate Orlando has had several offers for Serge Ibaka, but continue to hold out for a package that includes young players/picks.

Sporting News posted this also:

“They’re asking too much,” one front office executive said. “(The Magic) would probably like to make a few moves there, but Ibaka is the one they’re really pushing because he is going to leave. But they have had too high a price. They want a young player and a pick, two young players — you know, a package that can get them back some assets. They’re not going to get that. Not for three, maybe four months of Serge Ibaka.”


got laughed in the previous thread for Ibaka trades, probably would have to give up one or two of WCS, Richardson, Skal to get it done though. Obviously need a guarantee that Ibaka would re-sign as well which is a big risk.

I would freakin love to have Ibaka on the team!



Do that then watch Serge and Cuz tear up every front court in the league night in night out!

 

[Big Cuz 15]

not going to happen

1) he'll be a FA at the end of the season commanding a ridiculous amount to resign him
2) orlando wants picks/kids
3) he could walk and leave us with nothing

he's good but i don't think he's a position of need at this point. we need the PG position solidified.

 

[Bricklayer]

I love Ibaka next to Cousins, WCS is showing life and that contract makes him a major flight risk. I doubt the Kings even have the value to get him here.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/01/magic-exploring-possible-serge-ibaka-deal.html

I suggested he might be available some time ago. And if his trade value is down, who knows, maybe we can even do it without having to give up something stupid. If they think they are going to lose him anyway, I almost wonder if they are up for taking back Rudy's deal as the main matcher, then with a kid attached. Otherwise it might well have to be Afflalo + the kid. Which is kind of what I suggested back earlier in the year. If they are having problems with people not wanting to overpay for a rental, you could even draw a very low line with Afflalo and Ben and Papa, maybe one of those overseas stashes we have (not Bogdan) just to make them feel like they are doing well. Somebody probably outbids you, but hey, make a nothing offer and see what they do. Papa is a real possibility now that he is showing in Reno. But of course now that he is showing in Reno its important we know what Ibaka's plans are before that gets to be the young value.

Omri has to come back and play well, and Malachi has to hold steady if you are going to move Afflalo and Ben, but I can see both things maybe happening.

 

[Bricklayer]

not going to happen

1) he'll be a FA at the end of the season commanding a ridiculous amount to resign him
2) orlando wants picks/kids
3) he could walk and leave us with nothing

he's good but i don't think he's a position of need at this point. we need the PG position solidified.

Upgrading from Tolliver to Ibaka is a >>> upgrade up front. And all of a sudden a Cousins, Ibaka, Koufos, WCS, Tolliver frontline looks pretty complete.

Just depends on cost, and yes, on Ibaka's plans this summer.

BTW, Ibaka is in a bit of decline. He's not going to be commanding quite what people think he is anymore. He's a good fit next to Cousins, but he's no longer being accused of being a Top 30 player or whatever he was at his OKC peak. That still in the current market might mean a $20 million player ala a Ryan Anderson, but hell, that's why we set up os many expiring contracts was to try to bring in an impact guy this summer.

 

[c-webb1s#1]

Somebody will offer Ibaka a nice contract. My only reasoning for getting him now is that you can offer him a big contract and keep him here. We all agree we can't sign anybody in free aganecy so what's the point of clearing space?

 

[ParniValjak]

It's an interesting dilemma. You would think that we would want to trade for him so that we can offer him a bigger contract than anyone else out there to keep him but you don't want to give up to much because he could walk.

Either way, I think he will get max type money in the off-season from someone and if we don't trade for him I would expect us to be one of the teams that offers him a max deal in the summer

 

[twslam07]

It's an interesting dilemma. You would think that we would want to trade for him so that we can offer him a bigger contract than anyone else out there to keep him but you don't want to give up to much because he could walk.

Either way, I think he will get max type money in the off-season from someone and if we don't trade for him I would expect us to be one of the teams that offers him a max deal in the summer

Max for Ibaka? RIP for whichever team locks up a great roleplaying PF for $30+ mil a year. It's already tough enough as it is to build a contender. I can't imagine how difficult it would be when 1/3 of your cap is taken up by Ibaka.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Max for Ibaka? RIP for whichever team locks up a great roleplaying PF for $30+ mil a year. It's already tough enough as it is to build a contender. I can't imagine how difficult it would be when 1/3 of your cap is taken up by Ibaka.

agreed. that is way too much for a role playing big. someone will pay him that amount. by trading for him you essentially agree to pay whatever amount it takes to keep him. it wouldn't matter if we were giving away our expirings for him. arron, ben or dc. we don't have anymore picks to mortgage. the kids vlade drafted look promising so they're not going in exchange for a rental.

 

[CyKings]

I would freakin love to have Ibaka on the team!

View attachment 6313

Do that then watch Serge and Cuz tear up every front court in the league night in night out!

Not a horrible trade though I don't think Orlando would want that. Vlade could try to sell that they'd get cap space plus if DC/Gay like Orlando, then they have a chance to re-sign them if they want to. I can see them being interested in DC in a starter's role until they draft a PG for the future and let him develop (Orlando wants rid of Payton apparently). The only way it happens is if Vlade throws in a rookie to the deal or WCS, which would be very stupid unless Ibaka signs an extension very soon after getting traded to Sacramento.

Too many variables, but Ibaka wouldn't command a max salary and would be a pretty good complement to Boogie. Ibaka can also space the floor plus play better defense than Tolliver. Probably a pipe dream.

 

[ParniValjak]

Max for Ibaka? RIP for whichever team locks up a great roleplaying PF for $30+ mil a year. It's already tough enough as it is to build a contender. I can't imagine how difficult it would be when 1/3 of your cap is taken up by Ibaka.

You have obviously forgotten what happened last summer! Anderson, Bazemore, Barnes et al all received max or not far off it. Ibaka is a better player than any of those 3.

 

[twslam07]

You have obviously forgotten what happened last summer! Anderson, Bazemore, Barnes et al all received max or not far off it. Ibaka is a better player than any of those 3.

You obviously didn't hear the news about the new CBA and the amount of money a max contract is nowadays.

And Bazemore and Anderson did not receive max contracts and Barnes' max was off of a RFA. Ibaka's max is going to be higher than say what Porter will be maxed at this year. It's really not a good comparison on your part.

 

[KingsFan80]

You guys are just getting your hopes if, if you are hoping for a trade..because IMHO it isn't happening

 

[Kingsroots]

But what significant FAs did Portland sign? I'm not sure I understand your point there.

I'm not saying we couldn't sign Holiday but I would say that it's not likely. You can also say that it's not likely that a pick pans out but at least that pick will hold value that can be traded. Not signing a player leaves us with no value.


That's simply not true. Even at 10 you have guys like Fox or Ntilikina who could be game changers and our PG of the future.



Not saying that isn't true, but that doesn't make his direction right.


EDIT: Also, the math with Holiday doesn't quite add up. If we sign Bogdanovic (who will probably be around $7-8 mil a year), waive Afflalo, waive Tolliver, do not submit a QO for McLemore, lose our pick to CHI (no cap hold on the 1st), and give up our bird rights on Collison (no cap hold anymore), we'd have about $24.5 mil in cap space left. I think that's enough to sign Holiday (if he wants to come here), but you're not really going to have much left afterwards. You more than likely wouldn't have enough to resign one of Collison, Lawson, Casspi let alone all of them (not that we'd need both Collison & Lawson if we signed Holiday). So you'd have this team going into next year:

PG - Holiday
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Barnes / Gay
PF - Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis

That team still has a lot of question marks (SF, PF, & backup PG) without much cap to work with.

If we go into next year with Cousins and Gay both in the starting lineup my head will explode! NO WAY. I just don't see how the front office could sell the fans another year of trying that combo. Cousins sure, but both of them? IMO that would be dumb as dumb.

 

[kingsboi]

If we go into next year with Cousins and Gay both in the starting lineup my head will explode! NO WAY. I just don't see how the front office could sell the fans another year of trying that combo. Cousins sure, but both of them? IMO that would be dumb as dumb.

The only logical reasoning I can come up with as it pertains to Rudy staying beyond this season is to showcase that he is still able to produce after surgery and the Kings wanting to garner some type of value in return, rather than letting another talent walk with nothing to show for. It would all come full circle again and it would be a useless offseason IMO.

 

[ParniValjak]

The only logical reasoning I can come up with as it pertains to Rudy staying beyond this season is to showcase that he is still able to produce after surgery and the Kings wanting to garner some type of value in return, rather than letting another talent walk with nothing to show for. It would all come full circle again and it would be a useless offseason IMO.

I think Rudy will still opt out. I highly doubt he sticks around.

 

[kingsboi]

I think Rudy will still opt out. I highly doubt he sticks around.

I get that same notion too. The optimistic side in me hopes the Kings get something in return but the realist in me realizes that may not happen.

 

[ParniValjak]

I get that same notion too. The optimistic side in me hopes the Kings get something in return but the realist in me realizes that may not happen.

The only thing we will get in return for Rudy is the cap space unfortunately. Unless another team is dead set certain that Rudy will opt out and they are willing to trade us a player that they want off their books (e.g. Phoenix and Knight)

 

[Telemachus]

I think Rudy will still opt out. I highly doubt he sticks around.

James Ham agrees with you. He mentioned in his podcast last week that he thought Rudy would still opt out. He pointed out that he is friends with Wesley Matthews, who had his injury later in the year and still got paid.

 

[ParniValjak]

James Ham agrees with you. He mentioned in his podcast last week that he thought Rudy would still opt out. He pointed out that he is friends with Wesley Matthews, who had his injury later in the year and still got paid.

I would be surprised if Rudy's agency is not already putting out feelers to teams on whether they would have interest in their client in the summer. Rudy will get a deal that starts at least at $10 million for 2-3 years and that in itself is more than what he would get if he opts in especially if he plays for a team he wants to play for.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Bobby Marks with a cold dose of reality regarding the Kings' prospects at the deadline: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-guide-west-teams-pushing-for-last-playoff-spot-195756875.html

Not only are the assets limited, but also the recognition that the majority of the starters are "best suited as a key reserve."

 

[CelticsFan]

If Bobby Marks was on this site he would get muted by most....:......I happen to agree with him.

 

[bajaden]

Trade #1
CLE Gets: Ty Lawson
CLE Gives: Cedi Osman
Why for CLE? Lawson gives them another playmaker and more PG depth to help them compete for another title this year.

SAC Gets: Cedi Osman
SAC Gives: Ty Lawson
Why for SAC? Osman is a good, young prospect who also gives us a prospect at a position we need (SF)

Trade #2
Team X Gets: Ben McLemore
Team X Gives: 2018 2nd Round Pick
Why for Team X? Take a cheap flyer on McLemore

SAC Gets: 2018 2nd Round Pick
SAC Gives: Ben McLemore
Why for SAC? Get some value for McLemore while also having 2 young SGs as the future

Trade #3
TOR Gets: Omri Casspi
TOR Gives: Delon Wright & Fred VanVleet
Why for TOR? Move their 3rd & 4th string PG for a sharp shooting SF/PF to help them with their playoff run.

SAC Gets: Delon Wright & Fred VanVleet
SAC Gives: Omri Casspi
Why for SAC? Get a couple of young PGs on rookie contracts that can develop into useful players

Trade #4
WAS Gets: Darren Collison
WAS Gives: Trey Burke, Danuel House, & WAS 2017 1st Round Pick (Top 20 Protected)
Why for WAS? Washington's bench has been horrible this season. Collison gives them a sixth man type and a very tight 3 guard rotation (Wall, Beal, & Collison).

SAC Gets: Trey Burke, Danuel House, & WAS 2017 1st Round Pick (Top 20 Protected)
SAC Gives: Darren Collison
Why for SAC? Pick up a late 1st round pick for an expiring PG that could leave for nothing next year.

Trade #5
CHA Gets: Kosta Koufos
CHA Gives: Roy Hibbert, Christian Wood, & CHA 2019 1st Round Pick (Top 20 Protected)
Why for CHA? Get a solid defensive C to help them compete now for a couple of expiring and a late 1st 3 years from now.

HOU Gets: Roy Hibbrt & Christian Wood
HOU Gives: Corey Brewer & HOU 2017 1st Round Pick (Top 20 Protected)
Why for HOU? Brewer is deadweight to them. Moving him for a couple of expirings allows them to have $21 mil in cap space next year with Beverley, Harden, Gordon, Ariza, Dekker Anderson, Harrell, Onuaku, & Capela still under contract. They could pick up another solid player to help push them over the top in the 2017-18 season.

SAC Gets: Corey Brewer, HOU 2017 1st Round Pick (Top 20 Protected), & CHA 2019 1st Round Pick (Top 20 Protected)
SAC Gives: Kosta Koufos
Why for SAC? We have Cousins at C already with two young guys who can play the backup C role in the future, so moving him for a couple of 1sts along with a player who's contract will expire with the a lot of other contracts (Temple, Afflalo, Gay, Barnes, & Tolliver) would be a good return.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2016-17 Roster (to Finish the Year):
PG - Wright / VanVleet / Burke
SG - Temple / Richardson
SF - Afflalo / Barnes / Brewer / Gay
PF - Tolliver / Labissiere / House
C - Cousins / Cauley-Stein / Papagiannis

2017-18 Roster:
PG - Wright / VanVleet
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Osman / Gay
PF - Cauley-Stein / Labissiere / Tolliver
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
*waive Afflalo, Brewer, & Barnes
**SAC 2017 1st, WAS 2017 1st, & HOU 2017 1st

2018-19 Roster:
PG - Wright
SG - Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Osman
PF - Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Papagiannis
*assuming Temple opts out for a bigger payday
**SAC 2017 1st, WAS 2017 1st, HOU 2017 1st, SAC 2018 1st, & SAC 2018 2nd
***~$40 mil in cap space with these 13 players under contract

I have to be honest, and I sincerely mean no disrespect, but I can't wrap my head around that many trades at one time. I can't get myself to read past the first trade. Why don't you just do one trade at a time in a post. I'm sort of a Keep It Simple Stupid kind of guy. Not calling you stupid, it's just a phrase.

 

[bajaden]

We don't have a "winning team culture." Where are you getting that from?

And I think you'd be surprised with what Lawson would be able to fetch on the open market considering he's an expiring with no bird rights.

How do you expect do be a top team in the west? A lot of people want to challenge this idea, but they offer no solutions in return. Show me a solution or path to becoming a top notch team that has us giving up our 1st this year, has us not trading off our expirings for young talent, and doesn't have unrealistic expectations in FA. If anyone can show me a plan that makes this team one of the best teams in the west with those qualifiers, I'll jump on board.

Cousins has already said that he would sign the extension with us. Sure, he could still leave, but he doesn't seem like the type of guy that would do that (especially since he seems so hell bent on being the one to leaf the Kings to relevancy once again).

You can look at the team as constructed and hope that Richardson, Bogdanovic, Labissiere, Cauley-Stein, Papagiannis, & the 2018 1st round pick develop into enough talent to become an elite team around Cousins, and I'm not necessarily saying that isn't a possibility, but if the hope is in our current young players, why would we not want to acquire some more to increase the odds? None of our current vets are going to be getting better. In fact, a lot of them may be (close to) declining or will not be here when this team has more talent. I'd rather not waste these first couple of years building chemistry with players who won't be here when it's time to compete. Bring more guys in here that are young and have potential, develop the young guys, & build chemistry. Wright, Bogdanovic, Richardson, Osman, Cauley-Stein, Labissiere, Papagiannis, Cousins, SAC 2017 1st, HOU 2017 1st, WAS 2017 1st, & SAC 2018 1st gives us numerous chances to develop/find another star or two next to Cousins. It may very well be that Richardson & Labissiere turn out to be stars (meaning we could have just stuck with the vets we had at the time knowing we would have the talent to compete at a high level in the future. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that. We don't know, so why not increase the odds? Cousins has verbally said he wants to stay here and resign, so what's the rush in going for it all right now? If it's ticket sales & filling the new arena, that's not good enough for me. My goal is for us to build a winner.

EDIT: Also, how do you know that we would be a losing team for the next couple years in my scenario? You're assuming because the team is young that we are going to suck. Is there no thought that the young guys could perform? Is there no thought that Richardson continues to play well, Bogdanovic & Osman are able to come over next year and contribute right away, Cauley-Stein finds his groove, Labissiere adds some strength during the offseason, Papagiannis adjusts to the speed of the game and improves his fitness, our 1st round pick looks like a star in making, etc. the fact of the matter is you don't know. On the flip side, what happens if we don't do anything and the Kings still miss the playoffs the next couple of years? You essentially could be in the same situation as I'm suggesting but with much less potential to become a good team. Is Cousins going to be more satisfied because we did everything we could to make the playoffs immediately but still ended up being losers? Or is he going to see a FO who failed to meet their goal of making the playoffs all the while having only a few players who have potential to become better?

I know my opinion is probably not popular considering Kings fans have been through a decade of losing and all they want to see is some winning, but really stop and think about the future. Think about where this team is at today. Think about the record we hold and where we're at in the standings. Think about some of the teams that are ahead of us and who some of the upcoming teams are. Think about the talent on the team. Think about the star potential on this team. Think about the age of a lot of the players on this team. Think about the contract situations on this team. Think about how successful this team has been in FA. If you stop and think about all of those things, you may find yourself come to a different conclusion.

I think this is a discussion you have at the end of the season about a lot of the players. Of course there are obvious one's that are going to be gone, so not much discussion is necessary. You decide to either let them walk, or you get what you can for them before the trade deadline. But with the others, and I hope the rookies are included in that group, you use the season to base your decisions on. How you look at a player now may not be the way you look at him by seasons end.

For example, a few weeks ago, many were looking at Willie as a bust. I wasn't, but many were. Now, based on how he's currently playing, those people may have changed their mind. I think you need to step back at seasons end and see who fits what your trying to do, and who doesn't. And then go from there. I do think the culture is changing. Maybe not as fast as you or I would like, but there has been an improvement in ball movement. The overall play has become less selfish. Because of that, I'm not for wholesale changes in the roster. Bring in five or so new players who have to learn the system, and you ruin what little chemistry the team has began to build.

There are some keepers on the team. I love what Temple brings to the team. I like Tolliver, but I'm not sure I want him long term. Still making up my mind on him. I'd like to keep Lawson and either trade Collison, or let him walk at seasons end. Some might disagree with me on those two. I just think that Lawson is the more effective PG. I think anyone on the team that's a ball stopper should be gone. And no, I don't look at Cuz as a ball stopper. I do look at Gay that way and I think Afflalo falls into the category as well. I like Koufos, and could live with him on the team, or not. If you can improve the team by trading him, then so be it.

In short, I'm not opposed to a trade at or before the deadline. But for the most part, I'd like to use the rest of the year to see how the parts we have fit together, and that means playing Malachi and Skal. Papa can stay in Reno and work on his game. I don't have a problem rooting for the team to win, but by the same token, I don't get all choked up when we lose. Because losing may keep us our draft pick, which I think is more important than many on this forum do. If you don't think first round picks are valuable, go try and acquire one. Teams around the league are treating them like gold this year.

If our team was made up of Cousins and young up coming players, and we made the playoffs, I would be thrilled for our future. But making the playoffs with Couisins and a group of veterans, most of whom are backup players on another team, and half of which will be gone at seasons end, doesn't thrill me about the future. Sorry, but that's how I feel. I'm really not that interested in fools gold.

 

[twslam07]

I think this is a discussion you have at the end of the season about a lot of the players. Of course there are obvious one's that are going to be gone, so not much discussion is necessary. You decide to either let them walk, or you get what you can for them before the trade deadline. But with the others, and I hope the rookies are included in that group, you use the season to base your decisions on. How you look at a player now may not be the way you look at him by seasons end.

For example, a few weeks ago, many were looking at Willie as a bust. I wasn't, but many were. Now, based on how he's currently playing, those people may have changed their mind. I think you need to step back at seasons end and see who fits what your trying to do, and who doesn't. And then go from there. I do think the culture is changing. Maybe not as fast as you or I would like, but there has been an improvement in ball movement. The overall play has become less selfish. Because of that, I'm not for wholesale changes in the roster. Bring in five or so new players who have to learn the system, and you ruin what little chemistry the team has began to build.

There are some keepers on the team. I love what Temple brings to the team. I like Tolliver, but I'm not sure I want him long term. Still making up my mind on him. I'd like to keep Lawson and either trade Collison, or let him walk at seasons end. Some might disagree with me on those two. I just think that Lawson is the more effective PG. I think anyone on the team that's a ball stopper should be gone. And no, I don't look at Cuz as a ball stopper. I do look at Gay that way and I think Afflalo falls into the category as well. I like Koufos, and could live with him on the team, or not. If you can improve the team by trading him, then so be it.

In short, I'm not opposed to a trade at or before the deadline. But for the most part, I'd like to use the rest of the year to see how the parts we have fit together, and that means playing Malachi and Skal. Papa can stay in Reno and work on his game. I don't have a problem rooting for the team to win, but by the same token, I don't get all choked up when we lose. Because losing may keep us our draft pick, which I think is more important than many on this forum do. If you don't think first round picks are valuable, go try and acquire one. Teams around the league are treating them like gold this year.

If our team was made up of Cousins and young up coming players, and we made the playoffs, I would be thrilled for our future. But making the playoffs with Couisins and a group of veterans, most of whom are backup players on another team, and half of which will be gone at seasons end, doesn't thrill me about the future. Sorry, but that's how I feel. I'm really not that interested in fools gold.

It's great and all to say I don't want to "ruin what little chemistry the team has began to build.," but that decision of it getting "ruined" or not is not entirely up to you. These players will be UFAs in a year or two. They can walk without us doing a thing about it.

I think you and I value chemistry more than many other people on this forum. However, I think building chemistry with short term players or players that can walk (especially when we aren't an attractive FA destination) is a bit of a waste. Get some players in here who we can control for many years and then begin to build that chemistry.

Back to the point now. I'm not opposed to trying to retain some of our FAs as well, but again, it's not just our decision. It's a two way street.