Trade deadline approaching for Kings
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But what significant FAs did Portland sign? I'm not sure I understand your point there.
I'm not saying we couldn't sign Holiday but I would say that it's not likely. You can also say that it's not likely that a pick pans out but at least that pick will hold value that can be traded. Not signing a player leaves us with no value.
That's simply not true. Even at 10 you have guys like Fox or Ntilikina who could be game changers and our PG of the future.
Not saying that isn't true, but that doesn't make his direction right.
EDIT: Also, the math with Holiday doesn't quite add up. If we sign Bogdanovic (who will probably be around $7-8 mil a year), waive Afflalo, waive Tolliver, do not submit a QO for McLemore, lose our pick to CHI (no cap hold on the 1st), and give up our bird rights on Collison (no cap hold anymore), we'd have about $24.5 mil in cap space left. I think that's enough to sign Holiday (if he wants to come here), but you're not really going to have much left afterwards. You more than likely wouldn't have enough to resign one of Collison, Lawson, Casspi let alone all of them (not that we'd need both Collison & Lawson if we signed Holiday). So you'd have this team going into next year:
PG - Holiday
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Barnes / Gay
PF - Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis
That team still has a lot of question marks (SF, PF, & backup PG) without much cap to work with.
I'm not saying we couldn't sign Holiday but I would say that it's not likely. You can also say that it's not likely that a pick pans out but at least that pick will hold value that can be traded. Not signing a player leaves us with no value.
That's simply not true. Even at 10 you have guys like Fox or Ntilikina who could be game changers and our PG of the future.
Not saying that isn't true, but that doesn't make his direction right.
EDIT: Also, the math with Holiday doesn't quite add up. If we sign Bogdanovic (who will probably be around $7-8 mil a year), waive Afflalo, waive Tolliver, do not submit a QO for McLemore, lose our pick to CHI (no cap hold on the 1st), and give up our bird rights on Collison (no cap hold anymore), we'd have about $24.5 mil in cap space left. I think that's enough to sign Holiday (if he wants to come here), but you're not really going to have much left afterwards. You more than likely wouldn't have enough to resign one of Collison, Lawson, Casspi let alone all of them (not that we'd need both Collison & Lawson if we signed Holiday). So you'd have this team going into next year:
PG - Holiday
SG - Temple / Bogdanovic / Richardson
SF - Barnes / Gay
PF - Cauley-Stein / Labissiere
C - Cousins / Koufos / Papagiannis
That team still has a lot of question marks (SF, PF, & backup PG) without much cap to work with.
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It's a fair argument and one I understand and respect. But talent is just as important as the culture. You need both to be a top team. We seem to have the right guy for the culture so yes go get the talent.
I don't agree with your point about "forgetting the record" just because you miss the playoffs. If you win 25 games and make the playoffs, are you now this attractive team? I don't think so. You're choosing to ignore the context which can get you into trouble from time to time.
Sure, we can hope that we'd be able to sign a 2nd star in FA but looking at our history, what's the likelihood of that happening? Our 1st this year is probably the best chance at us getting another star next to Cousins. I'd rather this team not bleed talent if we can help it.
I don't agree with your point about "forgetting the record" just because you miss the playoffs. If you win 25 games and make the playoffs, are you now this attractive team? I don't think so. You're choosing to ignore the context which can get you into trouble from time to time.
Sure, we can hope that we'd be able to sign a 2nd star in FA but looking at our history, what's the likelihood of that happening? Our 1st this year is probably the best chance at us getting another star next to Cousins. I'd rather this team not bleed talent if we can help it.
Brandon Knight for DC/Barnes
Suns gets short rent of vets for their young core and gets out of of Knight's contract because Booker is cementing that starting SG spot now.
We get another Kentucky stud and a younger and better wing option than what DC is.
Kings should be riding on Lawson's resurgence instead of trying to force DC to be significant again. We missed a Rudy trade. We should not miss one for DC.
Follow it up with Affalo/KK for Melo
And Kings end up with:
DMC/Papa/WCS
WCS/Tolliver/Skal
Melo/Casspi
Temple/Malachi
Knight/Lawson
Suns gets short rent of vets for their young core and gets out of of Knight's contract because Booker is cementing that starting SG spot now.
We get another Kentucky stud and a younger and better wing option than what DC is.
Kings should be riding on Lawson's resurgence instead of trying to force DC to be significant again. We missed a Rudy trade. We should not miss one for DC.
Follow it up with Affalo/KK for Melo
And Kings end up with:
DMC/Papa/WCS
WCS/Tolliver/Skal
Melo/Casspi
Temple/Malachi
Knight/Lawson
http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2017/01/magic-exploring-possible-serge-ibaka-deal.html
I suggested he might be available some time ago. And if his trade value is down, who knows, maybe we can even do it without having to give up something stupid. If they think they are going to lose him anyway, I almost wonder if they are up for taking back Rudy's deal as the main matcher, then with a kid attached. Otherwise it might well have to be Afflalo + the kid. Which is kind of what I suggested back earlier in the year. If they are having problems with people not wanting to overpay for a rental, you could even draw a very low line with Afflalo and Ben and Papa, maybe one of those overseas stashes we have (not Bogdan) just to make them feel like they are doing well. Somebody probably outbids you, but hey, make a nothing offer and see what they do. Papa is a real possibility now that he is showing in Reno. But of course now that he is showing in Reno its important we know what Ibaka's plans are before that gets to be the young value.
Omri has to come back and play well, and Malachi has to hold steady if you are going to move Afflalo and Ben, but I can see both things maybe happening.
I suggested he might be available some time ago. And if his trade value is down, who knows, maybe we can even do it without having to give up something stupid. If they think they are going to lose him anyway, I almost wonder if they are up for taking back Rudy's deal as the main matcher, then with a kid attached. Otherwise it might well have to be Afflalo + the kid. Which is kind of what I suggested back earlier in the year. If they are having problems with people not wanting to overpay for a rental, you could even draw a very low line with Afflalo and Ben and Papa, maybe one of those overseas stashes we have (not Bogdan) just to make them feel like they are doing well. Somebody probably outbids you, but hey, make a nothing offer and see what they do. Papa is a real possibility now that he is showing in Reno. But of course now that he is showing in Reno its important we know what Ibaka's plans are before that gets to be the young value.
Omri has to come back and play well, and Malachi has to hold steady if you are going to move Afflalo and Ben, but I can see both things maybe happening.
Upgrading from Tolliver to Ibaka is a >>> upgrade up front. And all of a sudden a Cousins, Ibaka, Koufos, WCS, Tolliver frontline looks pretty complete.
Just depends on cost, and yes, on Ibaka's plans this summer.
BTW, Ibaka is in a bit of decline. He's not going to be commanding quite what people think he is anymore. He's a good fit next to Cousins, but he's no longer being accused of being a Top 30 player or whatever he was at his OKC peak. That still in the current market might mean a $20 million player ala a Ryan Anderson, but hell, that's why we set up os many expiring contracts was to try to bring in an impact guy this summer.
Just depends on cost, and yes, on Ibaka's plans this summer.
BTW, Ibaka is in a bit of decline. He's not going to be commanding quite what people think he is anymore. He's a good fit next to Cousins, but he's no longer being accused of being a Top 30 player or whatever he was at his OKC peak. That still in the current market might mean a $20 million player ala a Ryan Anderson, but hell, that's why we set up os many expiring contracts was to try to bring in an impact guy this summer.
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It's an interesting dilemma. You would think that we would want to trade for him so that we can offer him a bigger contract than anyone else out there to keep him but you don't want to give up to much because he could walk.
Either way, I think he will get max type money in the off-season from someone and if we don't trade for him I would expect us to be one of the teams that offers him a max deal in the summer
Either way, I think he will get max type money in the off-season from someone and if we don't trade for him I would expect us to be one of the teams that offers him a max deal in the summer
agreed. that is way too much for a role playing big. someone will pay him that amount. by trading for him you essentially agree to pay whatever amount it takes to keep him. it wouldn't matter if we were giving away our expirings for him. arron, ben or dc. we don't have anymore picks to mortgage. the kids vlade drafted look promising so they're not going in exchange for a rental.
Not a horrible trade though I don't think Orlando would want that. Vlade could try to sell that they'd get cap space plus if DC/Gay like Orlando, then they have a chance to re-sign them if they want to. I can see them being interested in DC in a starter's role until they draft a PG for the future and let him develop (Orlando wants rid of Payton apparently). The only way it happens is if Vlade throws in a rookie to the deal or WCS, which would be very stupid unless Ibaka signs an extension very soon after getting traded to Sacramento.
Too many variables, but Ibaka wouldn't command a max salary and would be a pretty good complement to Boogie. Ibaka can also space the floor plus play better defense than Tolliver. Probably a pipe dream.
Too many variables, but Ibaka wouldn't command a max salary and would be a pretty good complement to Boogie. Ibaka can also space the floor plus play better defense than Tolliver. Probably a pipe dream.
You obviously didn't hear the news about the new CBA and the amount of money a max contract is nowadays.
And Bazemore and Anderson did not receive max contracts and Barnes' max was off of a RFA. Ibaka's max is going to be higher than say what Porter will be maxed at this year. It's really not a good comparison on your part.
And Bazemore and Anderson did not receive max contracts and Barnes' max was off of a RFA. Ibaka's max is going to be higher than say what Porter will be maxed at this year. It's really not a good comparison on your part.
The only logical reasoning I can come up with as it pertains to Rudy staying beyond this season is to showcase that he is still able to produce after surgery and the Kings wanting to garner some type of value in return, rather than letting another talent walk with nothing to show for. It would all come full circle again and it would be a useless offseason IMO.
I would be surprised if Rudy's agency is not already putting out feelers to teams on whether they would have interest in their client in the summer. Rudy will get a deal that starts at least at $10 million for 2-3 years and that in itself is more than what he would get if he opts in especially if he plays for a team he wants to play for.
Bobby Marks with a cold dose of reality regarding the Kings' prospects at the deadline: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/trade-guide-west-teams-pushing-for-last-playoff-spot-195756875.html
Not only are the assets limited, but also the recognition that the majority of the starters are "best suited as a key reserve."
Not only are the assets limited, but also the recognition that the majority of the starters are "best suited as a key reserve."
I have to be honest, and I sincerely mean no disrespect, but I can't wrap my head around that many trades at one time. I can't get myself to read past the first trade. Why don't you just do one trade at a time in a post. I'm sort of a Keep It Simple Stupid kind of guy. Not calling you stupid, it's just a phrase.
I think this is a discussion you have at the end of the season about a lot of the players. Of course there are obvious one's that are going to be gone, so not much discussion is necessary. You decide to either let them walk, or you get what you can for them before the trade deadline. But with the others, and I hope the rookies are included in that group, you use the season to base your decisions on. How you look at a player now may not be the way you look at him by seasons end.
For example, a few weeks ago, many were looking at Willie as a bust. I wasn't, but many were. Now, based on how he's currently playing, those people may have changed their mind. I think you need to step back at seasons end and see who fits what your trying to do, and who doesn't. And then go from there. I do think the culture is changing. Maybe not as fast as you or I would like, but there has been an improvement in ball movement. The overall play has become less selfish. Because of that, I'm not for wholesale changes in the roster. Bring in five or so new players who have to learn the system, and you ruin what little chemistry the team has began to build.
There are some keepers on the team. I love what Temple brings to the team. I like Tolliver, but I'm not sure I want him long term. Still making up my mind on him. I'd like to keep Lawson and either trade Collison, or let him walk at seasons end. Some might disagree with me on those two. I just think that Lawson is the more effective PG. I think anyone on the team that's a ball stopper should be gone. And no, I don't look at Cuz as a ball stopper. I do look at Gay that way and I think Afflalo falls into the category as well. I like Koufos, and could live with him on the team, or not. If you can improve the team by trading him, then so be it.
In short, I'm not opposed to a trade at or before the deadline. But for the most part, I'd like to use the rest of the year to see how the parts we have fit together, and that means playing Malachi and Skal. Papa can stay in Reno and work on his game. I don't have a problem rooting for the team to win, but by the same token, I don't get all choked up when we lose. Because losing may keep us our draft pick, which I think is more important than many on this forum do. If you don't think first round picks are valuable, go try and acquire one. Teams around the league are treating them like gold this year.
If our team was made up of Cousins and young up coming players, and we made the playoffs, I would be thrilled for our future. But making the playoffs with Couisins and a group of veterans, most of whom are backup players on another team, and half of which will be gone at seasons end, doesn't thrill me about the future. Sorry, but that's how I feel. I'm really not that interested in fools gold.
For example, a few weeks ago, many were looking at Willie as a bust. I wasn't, but many were. Now, based on how he's currently playing, those people may have changed their mind. I think you need to step back at seasons end and see who fits what your trying to do, and who doesn't. And then go from there. I do think the culture is changing. Maybe not as fast as you or I would like, but there has been an improvement in ball movement. The overall play has become less selfish. Because of that, I'm not for wholesale changes in the roster. Bring in five or so new players who have to learn the system, and you ruin what little chemistry the team has began to build.
There are some keepers on the team. I love what Temple brings to the team. I like Tolliver, but I'm not sure I want him long term. Still making up my mind on him. I'd like to keep Lawson and either trade Collison, or let him walk at seasons end. Some might disagree with me on those two. I just think that Lawson is the more effective PG. I think anyone on the team that's a ball stopper should be gone. And no, I don't look at Cuz as a ball stopper. I do look at Gay that way and I think Afflalo falls into the category as well. I like Koufos, and could live with him on the team, or not. If you can improve the team by trading him, then so be it.
In short, I'm not opposed to a trade at or before the deadline. But for the most part, I'd like to use the rest of the year to see how the parts we have fit together, and that means playing Malachi and Skal. Papa can stay in Reno and work on his game. I don't have a problem rooting for the team to win, but by the same token, I don't get all choked up when we lose. Because losing may keep us our draft pick, which I think is more important than many on this forum do. If you don't think first round picks are valuable, go try and acquire one. Teams around the league are treating them like gold this year.
If our team was made up of Cousins and young up coming players, and we made the playoffs, I would be thrilled for our future. But making the playoffs with Couisins and a group of veterans, most of whom are backup players on another team, and half of which will be gone at seasons end, doesn't thrill me about the future. Sorry, but that's how I feel. I'm really not that interested in fools gold.
It's great and all to say I don't want to "ruin what little chemistry the team has began to build.," but that decision of it getting "ruined" or not is not entirely up to you. These players will be UFAs in a year or two. They can walk without us doing a thing about it.
I think you and I value chemistry more than many other people on this forum. However, I think building chemistry with short term players or players that can walk (especially when we aren't an attractive FA destination) is a bit of a waste. Get some players in here who we can control for many years and then begin to build that chemistry.
Back to the point now. I'm not opposed to trying to retain some of our FAs as well, but again, it's not just our decision. It's a two way street.
I think you and I value chemistry more than many other people on this forum. However, I think building chemistry with short term players or players that can walk (especially when we aren't an attractive FA destination) is a bit of a waste. Get some players in here who we can control for many years and then begin to build that chemistry.
Back to the point now. I'm not opposed to trying to retain some of our FAs as well, but again, it's not just our decision. It's a two way street.