there is no dilemma the Kings are retarded... great win tho

[fnordius]

Why is everyone saying we are 13th right now?

Nobody in this thread has said that. Three or four posters in this thread have said 12th. I think that maybe one poster in a different thread said 13th once by mistake.

It's not very important. As I pointed out months ago, 12th was extremely likely, and 11th to 13th was inevitable, so nothing in this calendar year could change our status as a late lottery team. In the last decade, there has not been one All Star drafted in the 11th-13th range, or even any likely candidates, it's just too late in the draft for one slot to make a whole lot of difference.

Unless one's looking for a straw man to beat up, the lottery is barely worth mentioning this year. Other issues completely dwarf it.

 

[Gary]

I just read the first post of the last two threads and saw #13, #13..

Was kinda thinking I was going crazy for a minute. I shoudl have read further down. Yah like I said, there isn't much difference between #10-11-12-13-14 anyway.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yah like I said, there isn't much difference between #10-11-12-13-14 anyway.

That's ridiculous. There is always a difference.

There is however not much difference at all between 39 wins on a lottery bound season, or 40. So let's just go with the 39 shall we, and end all the silliness. Loss tonight, win in Lakerland would do about as nicely as possible at this point.

 

[Bricklayer]

Either way, it starts you down the path to the B word.

Brain?

 

[bajaden]

That's ridiculous. There is always a difference.

There is however not much difference at all between 39 wins on a lottery bound season, or 40. So let's just go with the 39 shall we, and end all the silliness. Loss tonight, win in Lakerland would do about as nicely as possible at this point.

No its not ridiculous. It might be ridiculous in the sense of odds, but were not in Vegas, were dealing with people and educated evaluation. Gary spends a lot of time watching college games, as do I. How he has the time, I don't know. I'm retired and have three satelite dishes and have nothing better to do.
There are two players that I can almost guarantee will be stars. There are 4 or 5 more that I can almost guarantee will be good players and maybe stars in the league. After that, its a crap shoot. There are around 15 to 20 players that, either their potential or their learned skills equate them with one another. A star player could just as easily come with the 21st pick as with the 11th pick in this draft. So don't be surprised if you see a team with the 14th pick, pick a player that is projected at 22 or 23.
Yes, I know, if you have the 14th pick, then at least you have a better chance of drafting that player than the team with the 15th pick. Bottom line, is that its all about evaluation.

 

[Spike]

No its not ridiculous. It might be ridiculous in the sense of odds, but were not in Vegas, were dealing with people and educated evaluation. Gary spends a lot of time watching college games, as do I. How he has the time, I don't know. I'm retired and have three satelite dishes and have nothing better to do.
There are two players that I can almost guarantee will be stars. There are 4 or 5 more that I can almost guarantee will be good players and maybe stars in the league. After that, its a crap shoot. There are around 15 to 20 players that, either their potential or their learned skills equate them with one another. A star player could just as easily come with the 21st pick as with the 11th pick in this draft. So don't be surprised if you see a team with the 14th pick, pick a player that is projected at 22 or 23.
Yes, I know, if you have the 14th pick, then at least you have a better chance of drafting that player than the team with the 15th pick. Bottom line, is that its all about evaluation.

Exactly.
The only way this team would have lucked into a top ten spot was with Douby or Cisco running the point the entire year. As it is, we have to rely a little more luck and teams higher in the draft picking based on need instead of BPA. I haven't done the math (as I was told there wouldn't be any), but I'm pretty sure a very good (not great, but good) PF or PG will be available at #12. Think about it this way: will the top 6 PG/PF in the draft be picked before Sacramento selects? I don't think so. I know my argument is weak, because I'm not taking into account the quality of the players, but to say that all is lost because we may slip one spot is absurd.

BTW, I don't think Portland will be drafting a PG or PF.

 

[Bricklayer]

but to say that all is lost because we may slip one spot is absurd.

If you take a $20 bill out of your wallet, drop it in the toilet, and flush it away, all is not lost. You likely have more $20s. But you're still an idiot for flushing that one away for no reason.

And if your wife is standing in the doorway watching you as you do this, and starts jumping up and down and clapping and saying "I support you honey in whatever you do, no matter how dumb!" then she is an idiot too.

 

[Spike]

I think I'm moving on, as you cannot see the fallacy in your logic [the potential of losing ONE spot (not yet having done so)] and have resorted to lateral accusations thinly veiled in basketball discussions. If you want to notch this as a victory, congrats counselor.

 

[BudWright]

As a STH who only missed one game this year, I can tell you that everyone I know that is a STH and was at those games WERE NOT hoping to lose. For those that could have been there wishing to lose, they were in the minority as we never spoke to anyone who had those thoughts. I'm not sure you would have have the majority on this board that wants the Kings to lose either. Annie.

 

[ninjabiscuit]

The Cold Light of Pure Logic - a Rebuttal

The difference is that in this scenario, the more often you drop that bill in the toilet, the more people will come to your bathroom and buy things to eat from you there.

Uh, anyway...

I understand that mathematically, beating other teams right now might hurt our chances of getting the most ping pong balls possible. I'd still rather see them play as hard as they can, and I hope they win, idiot that I may be. I can't bring myself to hope they lose.

To put it another way: I'd rather have a team that is trying its hardest to win even when they aren't really playing for anything than to have a team that tanks the game on purpose and gets a better pick out of the deal.

 

[Gary]

That's ridiculous. There is always a difference.

There is however not much difference at all between 39 wins on a lottery bound season, or 40. So let's just go with the 39 shall we, and end all the silliness. Loss tonight, win in Lakerland would do about as nicely as possible at this point.

I said there isn't MUCH difference.. For instance it's not really set on which PFs will go where... You have Jordan, Randolph (7' sf/pf), Greene, Love, Speights, Arthur, and McGee who are all projected to go anywhere from #7 to #20. Between 8th and 12th (if the teams keep the order after the lottery) you have 4 possibly all 5 teams that are weak at PF that might possibly go in that direction. It's a wide open draft after about the 7th pick so that's what I meant by saying there isn't much difference.

 

[Jespher]

In the last decade, there has not been one All Star drafted in the 11th-13th range, or even any likely candidates, it's just too late in the draft for one slot to make a whole lot of difference.

Richard Jefferson...2001
Corey Maggette...1999
Kobe Bryant...1996
Corliss Williamson...1995

All picked # 13

 

[Jerryaki]

I'd still rather see them play as hard as they can, and I hope they win, idiot that I may be. I can't bring myself to hope they lose.

that's alright, it takes a few years to get to this point.

To put it another way: I'd rather have a team that is trying its hardest to win even when they aren't really playing for anything than to have a team that tanks the game on purpose and gets a better pick out of the deal.

as someone posted up thread...at this point, why are we playing huge minutes with moore? artest? salmons?

 

[Gary]

BTW, I don't think Portland will be drafting a PG or PF.

I actually think Portland might draft a PG.. Webster, Roy, Aldridge, and Oden is a strong lineup. Not sure if Sergio Garcia can fill the role of PG though (neither can Blake, or Jack).. But I think you have a point in saying that because I am not sure if a good PG can be had after Rose, Bayless, and possibly Westbrook. Portland has or will be good at PF/C.. But who knows.. They might go best available which wont be a PG.

 

[bajaden]

I actually think Portland might draft a PG.. Webster, Roy, Aldridge, and Oden is a strong lineup. Not sure if Sergio Garcia can fill the role of PG though (neither can Blake, or Jack).. But I think you have a point in saying that because I am not sure if a good PG can be had after Rose, Bayless, and possibly Westbrook. Portland has or will be good at PF/C.. But who knows.. They might go best available which wont be a PG.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you on this one. I'm not very impressed with Blake or Jack. Garcia may have the biggest upside. Way too early to tell. They might take a flyer on Augustine if he slides to them, because I don't see us taking him.

 

[quick dog]

Potential Draft Picks?

Sandbagging, accepting losses, to "earn" some prospective lower NBA draft-pick seems unethical, unprofessional, and basically, sort of wimpy.

I enjoyed this season more than any Kings season in the past five years. I also appreciate Reggie Theus and what he has acomplished with the cards dealt to him.

 

[fnordius]

Richard Jefferson...2001 <--Not an AS
Corey Maggette...1999 <-- Not an AS
Kobe Bryant...1996 <-- Not in the last decade
Corliss Williamson...1995 <-- Not an AS, or in the last decade

All picked # 13

Fixed.

 

[ninjabiscuit]

Agreed!

Sandbagging, accepting losses, to "earn" some prospective lower NBA draft-pick seems unethical, unprofessional, and basically, sort of wimpy.

I enjoyed this season more than any Kings season in the past five years. I also appreciate Reggie Theus and what he has acomplished with the cards dealt to him.

 

[piksi]

Sandbagging, accepting losses, to "earn" some prospective lower NBA draft-pick seems unethical, unprofessional, and basically, sort of wimpy.

all of it is 100% true and yet it is desperately needed.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I understand that mathematically, beating other teams right now might hurt our chances of getting the most ping pong balls possible. I'd still rather see them play as hard as they can, and I hope they win, idiot that I may be. I can't bring myself to hope they lose.

To put it another way: I'd rather have a team that is trying its hardest to win even when they aren't really playing for anything than to have a team that tanks the game on purpose and gets a better pick out of the deal.

That's all well and to the good, from a fan's perspective.

Owners and management should not think like fans.

 

[fnordius]

Sandbagging, accepting losses, to "earn" some prospective lower NBA draft-pick seems unethical, unprofessional...

I would add to that: I think it's appalling when people represent themselves as Kings fans, when in fact they are closeted Lakers fans. The duplicity involved is mind-boggling.

Yes, I know that what I just said was a ridiculous load of tripe. So is equating not wanting to make extraordinary efforts (like putting an "injured" player in for >30 minutes) to win one meaningless game that helps only the Lakers, with unethically throwing games all year for draft position.

 

[Warhawk]

That's all well and to the good, from a fan's perspective.

Owners and management should not think like fans.

And I think that is the problem here.

I will always cheer for the Kings to win whatever game they are in. It is up to management to clarify the organizations goals for the coach at the end of a season like this.

Reggie should, unless told otherwise, play the guys who give him the best chance of winning.

If management says "play QD 30 minutes" or "play Sheldon at both the 4 and the 5", then he should do that. If he's not getting proper direction from management to do that, don't place blame on Reggie.

I know we've seen some quotes about PT for the younger guys, but who knows what the directives have been that we have not (obviously) heard about. I think (JMHO, FWIW) the Maloofs are still looking for more wins, and no clear direction has been given to Reggie to sit the vets more per game. Whether that is the case or not, who knows. It's what I suspect.

I think the Maloofs are still looking to "justify" their coaching decision, and what better way than to win as many games as possible, especially by beating good teams as they enter the playoffs....

I don't know, in the hypothetical above, where GP fits in, or what input he has had into any of the decisions.....

 

[kupman]

If management says "play QD 30 minutes" or "play Sheldon at both the 4 and the 5", then he should do that. If he's not getting proper direction from management to do that, don't place blame on Reggie.

...

I don't think this would realistically ever happen. You are jeopordizing losing the coach by doing this. It may just be me, but if I were the coach and I was told to play QD for "x" minutes and do this, that or the other, I would be upset. Maybe that is because I am a professional and do not want to be micro-managed by anyone, but I think nearly every NBA coach would feel the same way. That is, they are the coach making the coaching decisions including PT, substitions and the like. I just do not see a GM or an owner doing this.

 

[fnordius]

I don't think this would realistically ever happen. You are jeopordizing losing the coach by doing this. It may just be me, but if I were the coach and I was told to play QD for "x" minutes and do this, that or the other, I would be upset. Maybe that is because I am a professional and do not want to be micro-managed by anyone, but I think nearly every NBA coach would feel the same way. That is, they are the coach making the coaching decisions including PT, substitions and the like. I just do not see a GM or an owner doing this.

So do you think that, if the Maloofs ever tried to influence a personnel decision, Geoff should quit?

 

[Jerryaki]

So do you think that, if the Maloofs ever tried to influence a personnel decision, Geoff should quit?

that would depend on two things:

1) if geoff actually agreed with the basketball decision. maloofs wanting to trade for dwight howard: all aboard! the maloofs wanting to trade for brian scalabrine: uh, veto.

2) how attached GP is to his paycheck.

the maloofs are the owners, not basketball minds. if i were the GM, it's my job, not theirs, to make the basketball decisions. wouldn't really want owners stepping on my toes as i tried to do my job.

 

[Warhawk]

I don't think this would realistically ever happen. You are jeopordizing losing the coach by doing this. It may just be me, but if I were the coach and I was told to play QD for "x" minutes and do this, that or the other, I would be upset. Maybe that is because I am a professional and do not want to be micro-managed by anyone, but I think nearly every NBA coach would feel the same way. That is, they are the coach making the coaching decisions including PT, substitions and the like. I just do not see a GM or an owner doing this.

I think if GP or the Maloofs have questions about personnel that they might want answered before the summer, it is within their rights to tell their employee that certain goals need to be met.

I would never think they would lose a game intentionally, but if you are out of the PO and have lingering personnel questions, why would Reggie get upset at that? Additional player evaluation at this time might speed up decisions this summer and hopefully lead to quicker decisions when trades become available.

If we were in the PO hunt, I agree with you. If GP/Maloofs say they want additional floor time for a couple younger players for trade exposure/evaluation (since we are out of the PO), I don't have a problem with it.

 

[bench_blob]

I yanked my money from this organization before last year. They aren't getting it back until I see a shred of intelligence from anybody higher ranking than the ballboy.

This from the same guy who said Spencer Hawes was damaged goods. That knee has really flared up on him this season, hasn't it? Yep, he may as well call it a career.

And obviously he has no game, making left handed interior passes to cutters for easy lay-ups, and bounce passes on a dime Vlade or B Miller would be proud of.

Clearly, Geoff Petrie was a moron for drafting him.

Keep up the brilliant insights, you enlighten us all.

 

[kupman]

I think if GP or the Maloofs have questions about personnel that they might want answered before the summer, it is within their rights to tell their employee that certain goals need to be met.

I would never think they would lose a game intentionally, but if you are out of the PO and have lingering personnel questions, why would Reggie get upset at that? Additional player evaluation at this time might speed up decisions this summer and hopefully lead to quicker decisions when trades become available.

If we were in the PO hunt, I agree with you. If GP/Maloofs say they want additional floor time for a couple younger players for trade exposure/evaluation (since we are out of the PO), I don't have a problem with it.

I agree with what you are saying. I will say though that it is a fine line and it could be very easy to step on the coach's toes, which could lead to a compromise in the relationship.

 

[quick dog]

I would assume that one would have to be able to run the length of the court in less than a minute and have at least a 25% free-throw percentage to play more than 25 or 30 minutes. QD

 

[fnordius]

that would depend on two things:

1) if geoff actually agreed with the basketball decision. maloofs wanting to trade for dwight howard: all aboard! the maloofs wanting to trade for brian scalabrine: uh, veto.

2) how attached GP is to his paycheck.

the maloofs are the owners, not basketball minds. if i were the GM, it's my job, not theirs, to make the basketball decisions. wouldn't really want owners stepping on my toes as i tried to do my job.

Yeah...

Strangely enough, I agree with Kupman on the general principle. I think that people should be left alone to do their job, as a general rule. The question is where the dividing line is between beneficial, or at least harmless, suggestions from above, and aggregious and intolerable meddling.

Personally, I don't think it's a big deal if the Maloofs want some opportunity to see talent that they're paying for, when there's nothing at stake. Or if Geoff does; he can't make responsible decisions if he doesn't know what he's working with.

On the other hand, trying to replace Geoff's very successful, hand-picked second in command, and trusted old friend, with John Whisnant, would be another matter entirely. In my opinion, anyway. Whether it's enough to resign over is a personal decision, but it seems to me to be about a thousand times more objectionable than a general wish to see more of a couple of new players.

Maybe Reggie's such a delicate little flower that he won't tolerate even reasonable suggestions from his superiors, but I sure hope he isn't.