there is no dilemma the Kings are retarded... great win tho

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This from the same guy who said Spencer Hawes was damaged goods. That knee has really flared up on him this season, hasn't it? Yep, he may as well call it a career.

And obviously he has no game, making left handed interior passes to cutters for easy lay-ups, and bounce passes on a dime Vlade or B Miller would be proud of.

Clearly, Geoff Petrie was a moron for drafting him.

Keep up the brilliant insights, you enlighten us all. :rolleyes:

You clearly need some enlightening, unfortunately most who do lack the capacity to realize it.

I should let you know that I almost deleted your post there, just because its full of hooey and I have never felt any particular need to let nitwits slander me out of the goodness of my heart. I deal with such things purely to avoid any appearance of hiding behind moderating powers just for convenience's sake.

Now:

1) Spenser likely has a bum knee. Three to four surgeries before age 20. How bum we will find out over time. Non-nitwit logic would tell you that it is much more likely to be a problem in future years as he gets older and plays more than 12 minutes a game. That gee, he only had one surgery on it at age 19 in a season when he rarely touched the floor doesn't exactly prove much one way or the other.

2) I could of course point out that contrary to your vitriol, I repeatedly opined that Geoff had no real choice but to draft Hawes once he was the only one of the bigs left at #10. But somehow I doubt that matters much to you.

3) I could also defy you to point out when in ANY post at ANY time since Hawes was drafted that I questioned his offensive skill level. Somehow I again doubt you are up to that challenge. Quite to the contrary I have been touting his OFFENSIVE skill since before he was drafted. Note: passing would be an offensive skill.

I could also point out that I have been touting the trading of Brad to clear room for Spenser as a starter since before the All-Star break. But at a certain point that is putting in entirely too much work just to make an obviously foolish post look foolish.
 
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In view of this, tonights game is now a must win. At the very least, get Kobe pissed off and T'ed up so that we can take away the advantage of the home court in first round. Sometimes, it is just better to be respectfully hated
 
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You clearly need some enlightening, unfortunately most who do lack the capacity to realize it.

I should let you know that I almost deleted your post there, just because its full of hooey and I have never felt any particular need to let nitwits slander me out of the goodness of my heart. I deal with such things purely to avoid any appearance of hiding behind moderating powers just for convenience's sake.

Now:

1) Spenser likely has a bum knee. Three to four surgeries before age 20. How bum we will find out over time. Non-nitwit logic would tell you that it is much more likely to be a problem in future years as he gets older and plays more than 12 minutes a game. That gee, he only had one surgery on it at age 19 in a season when he rarely touched the floor doesn't exactly prove much one way or the other.

2) I could of course point out that contrary to your vitriol, I repeatedly opined that Geoff had no real choice but to draft Hawes once he was the only one of the bigs left at #10. But somehow I doubt that matters much to you.

3) I could also defy you to point out when in ANY post at ANY time since Hawes was drafted that I questioned his offensive skill level. Somehow I again doubt you are up to that challenge. Quite to the contrary I have been touting his OFFENSIVE skill since before he was drafted. Note: passing would be an offensive skill.

I could also point out that I have been touting the trading of Brad to clear room for Spenser as a starter since before the All-Star break. But at a certain point that is putting in entirely too much work just to make an obviously foolish post look foolish.

When one drops an atomic bomb to kill and ant. It is not the ant that looks foolish. Your a bright person, and certainly better than this. Come on, lets go to the palapa bar and I'll buy you a cervesa..
 
When one drops an atomic bomb to kill and ant. It is not the ant that looks foolish. Your a bright person, and certainly better than this. Come on, lets go to the palapa bar and I'll buy you a cervesa..

Or to Cabo for Cabo. Your call.
 
When one drops an atomic bomb to kill and ant. It is not the ant that looks foolish. Your a bright person, and certainly better than this. Come on, lets go to the palapa bar and I'll buy you a cervesa..

but it is the ant that gets what it deserves, bomb or not. :D
 
Personally, I don't think it's a big deal if the Maloofs want some opportunity to see talent that they're paying for, when there's nothing at stake. Or if Geoff does; he can't make responsible decisions if he doesn't know what he's working with.

i agree with you there, but also think that during the course of the season, the GM has the right to issue directives whereas the owners do not (until it's obvious that no playoffs are forthcoming).

and i wish that coaches would buy into that. their job is to win, not just single basketball games, but a championship. if the GM is doing something evaluative because he doesn't feel the team can make it this year, the coach needs to respect that, and realize that he's got a contract for multiple years. barring idiocy, the idea is that he will be around to try again.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmart23
if they were playing for the future, meaning a) playing the guys who will be staying with us long term b) winning with the future (the kids) ..
i would be all for it. as it stands now, we're just starting to see glimpes (20 seconds or more of the kids) before reggie pulls them out for mistakes.


And that is the biggest straw man of the latter part of the season. What "KIDS" are you talking about? I'd like specific examples, especially of recent games, or I'm simply going to call shenanigans.

kids = players on rookie contracts. fyi, the 20 seconds is a joke. they might see a few minutes before they get yanked.
 
You clearly need some enlightening, unfortunately most who do lack the capacity to realize it.

I should let you know that I almost deleted your post there, just because its full of hooey and I have never felt any particular need to let nitwits slander me out of the goodness of my heart. I deal with such things purely to avoid any appearance of hiding behind moderating powers just for convenience's sake.

Now:

1) Spenser likely has a bum knee. Three to four surgeries before age 20. How bum we will find out over time. Non-nitwit logic would tell you that it is much more likely to be a problem in future years as he gets older and plays more than 12 minutes a game. That gee, he only had one surgery on it at age 19 in a season when he rarely touched the floor doesn't exactly prove much one way or the other.

2) I could of course point out that contrary to your vitriol, I repeatedly opined that Geoff had no real choice but to draft Hawes once he was the only one of the bigs left at #10. But somehow I doubt that matters much to you.

3) I could also defy you to point out when in ANY post at ANY time since Hawes was drafted that I questioned his offensive skill level. Somehow I again doubt you are up to that challenge. Quite to the contrary I have been touting his OFFENSIVE skill since before he was drafted. Note: passing would be an offensive skill.

I could also point out that I have been touting the trading of Brad to clear room for Spenser as a starter since before the All-Star break. But at a certain point that is putting in entirely too much work just to make an obviously foolish post look foolish.

You certainly do NOT lend credibility to your powers of observation when you cannot spell Hawes' first name correctly. :rolleyes:

S-P-E-N-C-E-R

And only a nit-wit would assume to have specialized knowledge in an area that requires formal training. Please correct me if I am wrong, but are you are medical doctor??

Conventional thinking might conclude knee problems could recur for a player with Hawes' injury history. Conventional thinking would NOT conclude Amare Stoudamire would tear up the league and regain his status as 1st or 2nd team All-NBA.

Fact check: Amare and Spencer had the same microfracture surgery.

Points 2 and 3 above are also without merit.

Geoff was under no obligation to draft Hawes. To suggest so is ludicrous! Geoff has passed on many big men in drafts in years past, and certainly could have done the same with Hawes. It obviously pains you to confess to the brilliance of the pick. Geoff saw skills in Spencer that could translate well to the NBA. Early returns are VERY encouraging.

I challenge you to show me a post where you lauded the pick, and applauded Geoff Petrie for making it. Such a post does not exist.

It's OK to admit you are wrong. It will be OK. I was wrong once, as an infant circa 1985. :D
 
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I challenge you to show me a post where you lauded the pick. Such a post does not exist.

good point...if you overlook the fact that brick's never claimed to be a fan of the pick. YOU claimed that he thought hawes had no game. he refuted it.

how is it possible you manage to sound so smug in a forum with no facial expressions??? :p
 
good point...if you overlook the fact that brick's never claimed to be a fan of the pick. YOU claimed that he thought hawes had no game. he refuted it.

how is it possible you manage to sound so smug in a forum with no facial expressions??? :p

In BB's defense, Bricky did equate Hawes with a "turd." That was the term Brick used. Harsh - yes. I also think that it implies that Brick thought that Hawes had no game. Unless it is possible for a "turd" to have a game. I will let you guys debate that topic.
 
You guys are both idiots. This blatant B.S. ends now.

Here, my first post after seeing Hawes highlight tapes:

Hawes though..did not blow me away, and the body needs serious work (as does Smith's), but I could see a bit of nasty there, and a bit of that torture box effect down on the block. Would have to see more, but a guy who has not only favorite moves, but then counters to every mvoe, who can show the ball over one shoulder, fake back the other way, and then finish with an up and under...that's art. And that would be where the McHale comparisons, or Vlade's cleverness in the post, come to mind. I feel better about him now than I did, although again whether he can hold position and reboudn with that kind of athleticism was not answered in that video.

My second post in that thread:

Diff is if you watch the vids one guy (Hawes) looked like he knew how to compensate, the other? Not so much.

Not sold on Hawes as a star, and the athleticism is a major reason why, but he looked comeptitive and I could see what he could do in the NBA -- sneaky post skills are rare even in this league. But Josh...think I saw what he could do in the league too. Unfortunately it was because they (perhaps wisely) decided to include a couple of clips of him shooting uncontested threes from the corner.


My third post in that thread:

he may be a one trick poney. That's certainly possible and been the concern all along. But at least you can see the trick. Think its a poor comparison just on overall skill and because of Mchale's incredible length, but there was of course the comparison sometimes made, and McHale, like Vlade, did not have to be much of an athlete to get the shots off because he was artist in there. The Brad comparisons I don't see at all, including when uttered by Hawes. Brad is a big weenie, and the only thing that I can be sure that Hawes can do in the NBA is precisely something that Brad never has been able to do.
 
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You guys are boith idiots Pt II.

My first post in a post-Summer League thread about Hawes:

??

Um...hate to say it, but anyone bashing him over his offensive skills was just being ignorant. That was the whole thing keeping this pick from being an utter disaster. Very sophisticated and complete for a young player.

But the defense/rebounding aspects are actually looking MORE alarming every game. Guy is going to be able to score in the NBA to some degree, but was that ever in question? The questions are/were how efficiently? Can he rebound? Can he defend? Can he contend with physicality? All very very open questions. A center who comes in and averages 15pts 6rebs or whatever is problematic at best.


My second post:

You know, that's not a completely awful comparison given Hawes comfort inside and out and mobility/willingness to handle the ball. But Spenser obviously has a vastly more sophisticated post game.

The thing is, that Dirk is a unique entity -- the absolute elite of his class of player, and basically with nobody you want on your team beneath him. A poor man's Dirk becomes Keith Van Horn.


Hawes has something he can do at an NBA level -- that gives him the anchor you need to stick it out and be a player of value. But its all the other things, that Dirk doesn't do, that Spenser needs to work on. Unless you can be so dominant you are going to score 25 a game, you can't just suck at the rest of it.


My third post (and a deeper analysis than either of you backseat drivers would ever attempt) :

A number of points here:

1) first of all the above is not really true. NONE of these kids has worked with NBA strength and conditioning programs. Some of them are nonetheless able to board/defend. That Hawes does not, compared to his peers at the same point in their careers, is quite significant. they will get better too at the same time he does.

2) and in addition, as the son of an NBAer, a guy who has obviosuly developed very sophisticated post moves and whatnot through extensive coaching, and has been ont eh edges of the NBA world since birth, I would say its far MORE likely that Hawes has exposed to that sort of program than soem raw kid out of Africa or whatnot. That goes for all that plyometics stuff too. That's hardly cutting edge, and any top athlete knows about it. One who has trqained his whole life for the role is quite likely to already be using it to some degree too.

3) I am actually a bit nonplussed about it to some degree, as Hawes is more mobile than advertised, and has good length. Physically, he should be able to do better. At a certain point it comes down to mentality/knack. Just as some people see the game as scorers, some see it as rebounders/defenders (see Justin for example). Switch the two guys from body to body and I suspect they largely switch roles (although Justin would probably have a hard time staying in the NBA in Hawes' body).

4) Hawes absolutely needs to get stronger. Randolph Morris, who is maybe a year older and a fringe NBAer at best just put his shoulder into him and bulldozed him wherever he wanted to go. But I would be a bit nervous about Spenser bulking up. He is already a shaky athlete. If he threw on 20lbs to bang with, it could tip the scales toward bad. Might make him settle into the post more though.

5) which brings me to a point which may sound unfair, actually two of them:
First, I think Hawes may actually suffer from having TOO many skills on offense. Or too many things he can do to some degree, but not dominantly. Sounds odd, but watching him attack it seems like he has a shot for every occasion form wherever on the floor. That should be a good thing, is a good thing in a lot of ways, but it actually impresses me that maybe its not. He ends up taking the first shot in his repertoire from wherever, rather than working to get to his spot on the floor, a prime spot. Would almost be better if he did not feel comfortable from everywhere so he would be induced to go where he has the biggest advantage. Hence if he gained weight, might almost help him to get dedicated to the post. In any case, looking forward, I could see this being perhaps the area of greatest growth for him. Simply learning how to use it, how to organize his attack. Rather than taking first shot, how to use one set of skills against the big slow guys, another against smaller guys. Again, properly organized and used, versatility like his is a huge plus and something many stars have. Right now, first impression is that its almost too much.

6) Second point though, and a little counter to that last, is I wonder about Hawes' upside compared to almost any other kid his age. Here's why: he has all the skills already. Normally when you talk about upside for a kid its in anticipation that he will develop skills to go with an already impressive physical package. Give him a few years, let him work on his jumper/post moves or whatever, and start dreaming. But Spenser already has all of that. And I do mean almost all of it. Jumpers, post moves, can handle, can pass. His skills are already complete. As always can refine or whatnot, but other than adding a three point shot (which I would rather he did NOT) he's already got almost everything you could learn in a gym anyway (and no doubt through endless work in a gym, probably playing against his dad since about age 5 -- just guessing). So the whole potential thing is twisted.
 
Now I am tired of this stupidity. I have wasted valuable time refuting blatant stupidity thrown at me by fringe posters. Now it is refuted. Given my post volume I am sure you could dig around and dig around and dig around until you found one post or another where I said something to hurt your poor little sensibilities about Spencer, but I have been quite clear, and quite articulate about what I thought Hawes was from the very beginning. And also quite consistent I mgiht add.

Now enough.
 
Just a couple of things:

#1 Brick, you did equate Hawes to a "turd" and "human excrement" on the day (or day after) he was drafted. Funny how you should leave this out during your diatribe/meltdown. It was not a very nice thing to say and I think you should say your sorry.

#2 Is it possible to change my username to "Fringe Poster?" I am being serious here - I want that as my username.
 
Now I am tired of this stupidity. I have wasted valuable time refuting blatant stupidity thrown at me by fringe posters. Now it is refuted. Given my post volume I am sure you could dig around and dig around and dig around until you found one post or another where I said something to hurt your poor little sensibilities about Spencer, but I have been quite clear, and quite articulate about what I thought Hawes was from the very beginning. And also quite consistent I mgiht add.

Now enough.

Well...I guess if you throw enough s*** against the wall, some of it is gonna stick. :eek:

But I don't want to get you upset, you seem ticked off. I stand corrected if you had a few valid points mixed in there somewhere, though I certainly don't see any credit given to Geoff...

And at least you got the spelling correct of Hawes first name this time, only a year after he was drafted, so kudos to you and your big brain. ;)
 
#1 Brick, you did equate Hawes to a "turd" and "human excrement" on the day (or day after) he was drafted. Funny how you should leave this out during your diatribe/meltdown. It was not a very nice thing to say and I think you should say your sorry.

You are treading on thin ice at this point kupman. I am more than tired of you playing the fool and just inventing **** wholesale. This is the last of these type defenses I am goign to launch into today:

This was the thread referenced:

http://kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21208&highlight=Hawes


Now I am tired of this ceaseless bombardment of B.S. I was quite clearly mocking the spin doctors at Kings.com in that thread. If all that you got out of months of posts and analysis of Hawes' game was some distorted half memory of a post only tangentially related to him, then I am sorry for you. It might explain a lot of your attitude problem however.

Now this whole line of crap has long since crossed a line into harrassment. As I no longer feel compelled to continue defending myself aginst the next idiotically baseless claim to be lobbed my way, my options are either to turn the tables and go on the attack, make up a few things, see how amused you are wasting your time defending against baseless claims, or to just to start deleting further harassment summarily.

I said enough. I meant it.
 
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Well...I guess if you throw enough s*** against the wall, some of it is gonna stick. :eek:

But I don't want to get you upset, you seem ticked off. I stand corrected if you had a few valid points mixed in there somewhere, though I certainly don't see any credit given to Geoff...

And at least you got the spelling correct of Hawes first name this time, only a year after he was drafted, so kudos to you and your big brain. ;)

And a classless concession speech to top it off.

Very nice. Thx for playing.
 
I point out that Brickie called Hawes a "turd" last summer and in return I get called a harrassing and fringe poster.....LOL
 
I point out that Brickie called Hawes a "turd" last summer and in return I get called a harrassing and fringe poster.....LOL


You intentionally made up **** just to try to score points, and then got called on it.

Even if I had called him a turd, the point would have been recognized as irrelevant by any rational poster in the face of the dozens of posts about his actual game. Now I go and call you directly on the post you are whining about, link to it, demonstrate that it was not about Spenser at all, and you still want to try to press the point?

Drop it.
 
You intentionally made up **** just to try to score points, and then got called on it.

Even if I had called him a turd, the point would have been recognized as irrelevant by any rational poster in the face of the dozens of posts about his actual game. Now I go and call you directly on the post you are whining about, link to it, demonstrate that it was not about Spenser at all, and you still want to try to press the point?

Drop it.

I did not make it up.
 
Just to set the record straight, I dug up the post.

Brick did not compare Hawes to a turd. He did, however, scathingly criticize MS&E's PR/writing staff.

Just as an experiment I would like the Kings to some day draft a turd. Not a player who is a turd. I mean a real live piece of excrement. It would be hilarious watching the PR staff and Grant trying to find ways to heap praise on it and sell it to the fans.

http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21208
 
And a classless concession speech to top it off.

By your view, I am "idiot", and my posts are "blatantly stupid", and yet I am the one lacking in class?

Do the math, and I think you will see the hypocrisy in your remark.

Hopefully, you are better at Math than spelling. :eek:
 
By your view, I am "idiot", and my posts are "blatantly stupid", and yet I am the one lacking in class?

Do the math, and I think you will see the hypocrisy in your remark.

Hopefully, you are better at Math than spelling. :eek:

There is a difference between lacking class and being direct, FWIW.
 
Just to set the record straight, I dug up the post.

Brick did not compare Hawes to a turd. He did, however, scathingly criticize MS&E's PR/writing staff.



http://www.kingsfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21208

Thanks for doing this. I went looking for it and could not find it. But this is the quote. I did originally state that Brick equated Hawes to being a "turd" which he did not. He was criticizing the report rather than the player.

I just remembered that his first post was less enthusiastic about Hawes and something about drafting human excrement and the PR people painting a pretty picture about it.

Was not exactly a great way to welcome the newest member of the Kings, but he did not directly call Hawes a turd either.

I apologize to Brick for my error in memory.

Off to change my username to "Fringe Poster."
 
Thanks for doing this. I went looking for it and could not find it.

A helpful hint for anyone trying to find things on Kingsfans:

If you go to Google and search like so...

hawes turd site:kingsfans.com

...it'll be the first match.

The "site:" option on Google can be a real timesaver.
 
A helpful hint for anyone trying to find things on Kingsfans:

If you go to Google and search like so...

hawes turd site:kingsfans.com

...it'll be the first match.

The "site:" option on Google can be a real timesaver.

lol at hawes turd site:kingsfans.com. Sorry but that sounds funny.
 
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