The Sports And COVID Vaccine Thread
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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Not sure what point they're trying to make here. You can't replace stars with practice squad guys and expect the same level of entertainment.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
The think is a lot of the stars that matter to the league have been very public about getting vaxxed. Russ and Mahomes were in PSAs. I don’t think the cleanup is going to be crying about losing Cole Beasley. Nuke Hopkins has been on the Texans and Cards his whole career so it’s not like he existed much in the first place.
OK, let's keep it to the topic of the players/NFL and not the vaccines themselves. Unless we want to start deleting a whole bunch of posts again, and I don't think we want to go there.
Frankly, I think it is the right move by the NFL. They have concerns about COVID spreading through teams and vaccination is the best way to help prevent that, or prevent the worst of the symptoms/deaths that can follow, and the courts have ruled that businesses can indeed require employees to get vaccinated. They aren't REQUIRING vaccination yet; they are trying to use the "carrot" approach first. The "stick" approach will come later if it needs to.
You want to play in the NFL? Get a shot or risk being the reason your team doesn't get paid for one or more games. Over 160,000,000 folks in the US alone already have been vaccinated and it is proven to work. That's what the NFL is looking at. Let's leave the rest out of it.
Anyone else starts dipping into the vaccine discussion pool and it's going to be a short swim.
Edit - I've already deleted a few posts that went into that discussion area. Let's avoid it in the future. Thanks.
Frankly, I think it is the right move by the NFL. They have concerns about COVID spreading through teams and vaccination is the best way to help prevent that, or prevent the worst of the symptoms/deaths that can follow, and the courts have ruled that businesses can indeed require employees to get vaccinated. They aren't REQUIRING vaccination yet; they are trying to use the "carrot" approach first. The "stick" approach will come later if it needs to.
You want to play in the NFL? Get a shot or risk being the reason your team doesn't get paid for one or more games. Over 160,000,000 folks in the US alone already have been vaccinated and it is proven to work. That's what the NFL is looking at. Let's leave the rest out of it.
Anyone else starts dipping into the vaccine discussion pool and it's going to be a short swim.
Edit - I've already deleted a few posts that went into that discussion area. Let's avoid it in the future. Thanks.
I would say this is definitely the stick and not the carrot approach. I don't disagree with it in the context of sports contests. These people can get well informed/educational resources and have access to some of the best medical care in the world. No excuses.
miltonap
Starter
That's not cool. I feel you deleted posts because you didn't agree with them, then started posting your own opinions about the vaccines when you said vaccine talk was now off limits.
I just stated that the vaccines work (and they do, from real-life data). That's why the NFL wants the players, coaches, and other employees/staff vaccinated. They wouldn't be pushing it so hard if vaccines didn't work. The NFL is trying to protect the teams from outbreaks and keep the games being played as scheduled. Missed games due to COVID are lost revenue to them, and now to the players as well.
We are not going to start discussing conspiracy theories, emergency vs. normal vaccine approvals, that anti-vaxxers are stupid, that people who got vaccines are sheep, or whatever. You want to discuss the NFL policy? Knock yourself out. This is the NFL thread, not the "let's delve into vaccines yet again" thread (that I admittedly get drawn into pretty easily). That's why this thread got pruned.
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To me, the "carrot" approach is this voluntary vaccination approach with repercussions established for COVID outbreaks that prevent games from taking place. In other words, you don't have to, but we'd prefer you did and it would protect your paychecks better. And they are relying on peer pressure to help get it done.
The "stick" approach is mandated vaccinations, or fines for not being vaccinated, etc. In other words, required or punitive; forcing it to move forward. And, in all honesty, it may come to that at some point. But I don't know if they player's union would go along with it....
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Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Probably won’t have to after a while. As with the many other vaccines employed by society to combat a bevy of deadly diseases and maladies, colleges/high schools are going to probably require a COVID fax for enrollment and every single NFL player comes through college (aside from like 4 or 50 players going through the NFL’s international player program), starting next year most of the new batch of players are going to be vaxxed.
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Making a team forfeit games would be the stick yes? I'd say with some certainty any team with unvaccinated players will probably have an outbreak. And almost every team will have them.
yadda yadda delete this line if you must: I was told by a program I work with closely and got approved for in-person work after they assured me of 100% vaccination rate of their students in spring had learners denied their clinical placements this summer because they weren't vaxxed. These are health care providers offered first in line status in December.
Section 101
All-Star
Why are you assuming unvaccinated. The Yankees already had one with vaccinated players. If anything vaccinated players will cause it because they think they are immune and will have a greater chance at exposure.
If a vaccinated player gets it and gives it to unvaccinated players, won't the penalty ultimately be the same?
If 10 vaxxed get it but 1 unvaxxed goes into protocol as a result and they cancel the game, that's a forfeit no?
Padrino
All-Star
There is a profound misunderstanding around the country regarding the efficacy of COVID vaccination. The current COVID-19 vaccines protect primarily against severe disease. At this, they are remarkably effective. They also shield against symptomatic COVID, but the goal of mass vaccination has always been to reduce the strain on our healthcare system. And in that respect, the vaccines are working overtime. Hospitalizations due to COVID-19 are almost exclusively among the unvaccinated, to the tune of 97%.
This does not mean that the vaccinated will not get sick, however. Most vaccinated individuals who contract COVID-19 will experience few, if any symptoms. And those that do experience symptoms are in for something akin to the common cold. But these sick-and-vaccinated individuals haven't required hospitalization due to an inability to breathe. This is particularly important amongst the elderly, who represent the largest share of vaccinated individuals in the entire country, which is important because they are obviously the most vulnerable to the effects of severe COVID.
miltonap
Starter
I agree with most of what you say actually but believe you are overstating the protection against symptomatic infection. Just going based off what's currently going on
No, I think that is just letting everyone know what is at stake.
The "carrot" is that they get to play every game and not have to worry about losing pay. I don't see a better "carrot" option unless you want to start paying players to become vaccinated, and I don't see multi-millionaires that weren't previously getting excited to get the jab over an extra $1,000 or whatever. That's a few bottles of expensive alcohol at a club for them. Pocket change.
Telemachus
Starter
I would think that adding new restrictions on players that aren't part of the collective bargaining agreement would eventually be challenged by a player in court.
I was thinking about that earlier today. You'd think we would have heard something from the union at this point.
Padrino
All-Star
Meh. This is extremely flimsy rhetoric. Up-to-date immunization records are essential for all kinds of employment, services, and public activities. Kids need them for school, daycare, and athletic participation. Tons of employers already require proof of immunization before hiring. Various kinds of travel occasionally require the same. We're not living in some brave new world. This is standard operating procedure in many facets of life, and the global nature of the pandemic just necessitates adding another immunization to the record.
It's not flimsy rhetoric at all but this would get deleted if I went into details.
There is a very big difference in this vaccine and say the polio vaccine that has decades of research behind it. If we had long term studies on it's safety then I wouldn't see a problem with it and I don't think many other people would either. It's not a crazy decision for an extremely fit 20 something year old to not want to stick in a needle in their arm to protect themselves from something they don't feel like they need to be protected from.
I don't think NFL players should be forced into a decision and that's exactly what the NFL is trying to do.
Get vaccinated and have all the fun you want but we're going to police the hell out of you if you decide to make your own health decisions based on what you think is best for your own body.
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Padrino
All-Star
The polio vaccine was only in trial for a year, and that trial included millions of children. The COVID-19 vaccines are an absolute cakewalk by comparison with respect to what has been put at hazard, both in trial and in mass distribution.
Further still, the mRNA research that forms the basis of both the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines actually is decades old. It's become commonplace to characterize these vaccines as "experimental," which carries the negative connotation that not enough time has been spent developing them. The virus may be novel, but the vaccine technology simply is not.
As for that hypothetical 20-year-old, he may not feel the need to protect himself, but that's never been the point of vaccination. Historically speaking, vaccines have been far less about protecting individuals and far more about protecting societies. Individual motivation matters less than the need to protect the group. The NFL isn't just concerned about those 20-year-olds, after all; it's also concerned about its coaches and referees, who skew much older than said 20-something's, and are thus more vulnerable to the effects of COVID-19.
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