Suns @ Kings Game Thread

[Bricklayer]

But I think Wheeler03 brings up a valid point. It's one thing to criticize someone as a player, it's another thing to question his manhood. I mean, that goes beyond basketball and it insults the person rather than the player.

I am oh so sorry I offended your delicate sensibilities nbrans.

No wait. No I'm not. I could care less.

 

[Entity]

speaking of SAR and his rebounding. KT sure has sucked it up lately. Geez so instead of SAR scoring and not reboudning we now have KT who does neither.

 

[VF21]

You don't have a very long memory when it comes to me defending Kings players from peurile/baseless/idiot assaults if you think this hasn't been an issue in the past. I was there during pinkie-gate, man. I was there.

For the most part, we refrain from the "peurile/baseless/idiot assaults." The bottom line is that, as kennadog pretty eloquently pointed out, how we feel about SAR the person is irrelevant. It's SAR the power forward who is garnering the comments.

He's what we have at the 4 and if he doesn't step his game WAY up for the playoffs, he and the Kings are going to be eaten alive.

(I like your comment about pinkiegate, BTW... )

Brick's pithy comments are not mean-spirited. He's cutting edge; an acquired taste, if you will. If you take away the adjectives and the window dressing, however, you'll see his baseline comments are spot on.

 

[nbrans]

I am oh so sorry I offended your delicate sensibilities nbrans.

No wait. No I'm not. I could care less.

Yeah, exactly, VF21, Bricklayer's not mean-spirited at all. Totally see your point there. Gotta love this cutting edge stuff.

 

[bozzwell]

I am quite surprised that during all this Reef discussions, nobody has brought up a simple fact that Reef is for the first time in his career playing for all the marbles. You can see it in his on-the-court demenour that he can smell the playoffs for the first time ever and that he is playing hard. He is actually bringing it and lately looked good to me. Still, he is not getting (m)any rebounds.

Let's refresh:

When Pedja's manhood was called into question it was usually after a passive performance or during an absence due to injuries to minor apendages.

When we dump on Brad it is when his game completely collapses in the face of adversity (e.g. beer-face meltdowns).

When we dump on Bibby it is usually when he gets burned by opposing PG and does not even try to play defense.

So, my question is: Why all the fuss about Reef? Even his fans admit that he was never a good rebounder. He's accepted coming off the bench, he toughed it out for weeks with his jaw wired shut, he seems to be contributing in other areas and everybody agrees that in general he's been a good egg at Sacramento.

I'd be much more interested in someone trying to put together an explnation of why have we relapsed into being a terrible rebounding team in general and Reef (who is even worse then usual) in particular.

I have some ideas myself, but it is still somewhat of a mystery to me how it does not get addressed game-in, game-out.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yeah, exactly, VF21, Bricklayer's not mean-spirited at all. Totally see your point there. Gotta love this cutting edge stuff.

No nbrans, Bricklayer is simply working at a more sophisticated level than to fall for the old labeling trick, nor for your standard passive-aggression victim routine.

You are hardly going to throw me off my game with either, so you might as well either return to the facts at hand, or just bow out.

 

[piksi]

Can't we all just get along ?

 

[bozzwell]

Can't we all just get along ?

Stay on topic, please. Either flame somebody or call out a player.

 

[piksi]

Stay on topic, please. Either flame somebody or call out a player.

that wouldn't be my style

 

[nbrans]

No nbrans, Bricklayer is simply working at a more sophisticated level than to fall for the old labeling trick, nor for your standard passive-aggression victim routine.

You are hardly going to throw me off my game with either, so you might as well either return to the facts at hand, or just bow out.

Actually, I was just trying to keep things nonpersonal here, and have backed up my arguments about Shareef's rebounding with, you know, actual numbers. I guess you are spoiling for a fight or something, but I'm really not interested in stooping to the level of an internet catfight. So if it's all the same to you, in the words of the immortal piski, can't we all just get along?

 

[GoGoGadget]

Stay on topic, please. Either flame somebody or call out a player.

Or, you could always combine the two and call a player flaming.

 

[VF21]

Yeah, exactly, VF21, Bricklayer's not mean-spirited at all. Totally see your point there. Gotta love this cutting edge stuff.

Brick made ONE small comment and a couple of SAR homers jumped all over him. He replied, which is what anyone would have done.

This is all becoming way too soap-opera for me.

I will add one thing. Most of the time, player homers are a bane to message boards. They will take offense at virtually any criticism of "their guy" and will act as if he is being maligned, etc. Sorry but I'm not gonna play those games. ANY player on ANY NBA team is fair game for criticism.

I, for one, love Brick's grades. I don't always agree with him, but that's the beauty of message boards. It doesn't really matter if I agree with him or not because at the end of the day it's just two people voicing differing opinions.

People like Wheeler03 don't want to be part of actual dialogue. He has a chip on his shoulder because not everyone is willing to bow down and worship at the feet of his particular idol and he lurks around and waits until the moment comes when he can protest his righteous indignation. And, if he can get someone/anyone else to buy into the ruse, his joy knows no boundaries.

Sorry, but I'm not gonna get my panties in a bunch over things like that.

 

[VF21]

I am quite surprised that during all this Reef discussions, nobody has brought up a simple fact that Reef is for the first time in his career playing for all the marbles. You can see it in his on-the-court demenour that he can smell the playoffs for the first time ever and that he is playing hard. He is actually bringing it and lately looked good to me. Still, he is not getting (m)any rebounds.

Let's refresh:

When Pedja's manhood was called into question it was usually after a passive performance or during an absence due to injuries to minor apendages.

When we dump on Brad it is when his game completely collapses in the face of adversity (e.g. beer-face meltdowns).

When we dump on Bibby it is usually when he gets burned by opposing PG and does not even try to play defense.

So, my question is: Why all the fuss about Reef? Even his fans admit that he was never a good rebounder. He's accepted coming off the bench, he toughed it out for weeks with his jaw wired shut, he seems to be contributing in other areas and everybody agrees that in general he's been a good egg at Sacramento.

I'd be much more interested in someone trying to put together an explnation of why have we relapsed into being a terrible rebounding team in general and Reef (who is even worse then usual) in particular.

I have some ideas myself, but it is still somewhat of a mystery to me how it does not get addressed game-in, game-out.

Uh oh.

If you're gonna come here and inject logical, concise arguments into this whole thing, I'm just gonna have to look for the POOF dust.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am quite surprised that during all this Reef discussions, nobody has brought up a simple fact that Reef is for the first time in his career playing for all the marbles. You can see it in his on-the-court demenour that he can smell the playoffs for the first time ever and that he is playing hard. He is actually bringing it and lately looked good to me. Still, he is not getting (m)any rebounds.

Let's refresh:

When Pedja's manhood was called into question it was usually after a passive performance or during an absence due to injuries to minor apendages.

When we dump on Brad it is when his game completely collapses in the face of adversity (e.g. beer-face meltdowns).

When we dump on Bibby it is usually when he gets burned by opposing PG and does not even try to play defense.

So, my question is: Why all the fuss about Reef? Even his fans admit that he was never a good rebounder. He's accepted coming off the bench, he toughed it out for weeks with his jaw wired shut, he seems to be contributing in other areas and everybody agrees that in general he's been a good egg at Sacramento.

I'd be much more interested in someone trying to put together an explnation of why have we relapsed into being a terrible rebounding team in general and Reef (who is even worse then usual) in particular.

I have some ideas myself, but it is still somewhat of a mystery to me how it does not get addressed game-in, game-out.

1) Why all this fuss -- quite clearly you should be asking the other side of the debate. Reef's lack of rebounding was pointed out. A post here, a post there. A mention in the grades. The debate has been initiated by those desperately trying to deny the fact. There was no new thread started entitled "Gee, Reef Sure Does Suck On The Glass".

2) theories: Well, right now KT is out to lunch. And neither Cisco or Kevin are giving us anything. You add that up it pretty much means Bonzi against the world. Brad, Mike, Reef and to a lesser degree Ron have been bad all year.

Now as for the reason for the funks...that's interesting. What you hope it is NOT is pouting. But there is that chance in some cases. Kenny is still starting, but he's not giving us that energy/boardwork push anymore and he's losing minutes. He has the potential to pout in such situiations, although one hopes not. Kevin got hurt and lost his starting spot. His struggles couold come form the injury, from comign off the bench wheer he struggled early in the year, or again, from a bit of a pout about losing the starting spot. You hope its not the latter. And ditto Cisco, who went from a significant rotation player to almost being out of the rotations with ron/Bonzi/Kevin all ahead of him. Could still be the injury. But you hope its not neck up.

In any case, all three of our energy athletes are slumping. That leaves only the bang and bump duo of Ron/Bonzi and softie scoring trio of Reef/Brad/Mike who haven't gotten it done all year.

 

[kennadog]

Or, you could always combine the two and call a player flaming.

 

[bozzwell]

1) Why all this fuss -- quite clearly you should be asking the other side of the debate. Reef's lack of rebounding was pointed out. A post here, a post there. A mention in the grades. The debate has been initiated by those desperately trying to deny the fact. There was no new thread started entitled "Gee, Reef Sure Does Suck On The Glass".

2) theories: Well, right now KT is out to lunch. And neither Cisco or Kevin are giving us anything. You add that up it pretty much means Bonzi against the world. Brad, Mike, Reef and to a lesser degree Ron have been bad all year.

Now as for the reason for the funks...that's interesting. What you hope it is NOT is pouting. But there is that chance in some cases. Kenny is still starting, but he's not giving us that energy/boardwork push anymore and he's losing minutes. He has the potential to pout in such situiations, although one hopes not. Kevin got hurt and lost his starting spot. His struggles couold come form the injury, from comign off the bench wheer he struggled early in the year, or again, from a bit of a pout about losing the starting spot. You hope its not the latter. And ditto Cisco, who went from a significant rotation player to almost being out of the rotations with ron/Bonzi/Kevin all ahead of him. Could still be the injury. But you hope its not neck up.

In any case, all three of our energy athletes are slumping. That leaves only the bang and bump duo of Ron/Bonzi and softie scoring trio of Reef/Brad/Mike who haven't gotten it done all year.

OK, your answer is better then mine.

As for 1., yes, that is who I addressed it too in particular. I don't think Reef is treated any worse then other starters/important players were in the past. Actually nowhere near as bad as Pedja or Webber who had dedicated "haters".

 

[bozzwell]

Uh oh.

If you're gonna come here and inject logical, concise arguments into this whole thing, I'm just gonna have to look for the POOF dust.

I'll get me coat.

 

[piksi]

I'll get me coat.

and a hat

 

[kennadog]

Yeah, I am particularly worried about the lack of much from Kenny, Kevin and Cisco right now. Not good...not good at all. Hard to tell what's the matter with KT. Not that he's a great shooter , but his shot looks really terrible lately. And its like with the slump, he just pouts and no more scrap and hustle, which is way more valuable to us than his shooting anyway. *sigh*

 

[Kamehameha]

Kamehameha or Wheeler is playmaker?

Well unless either of them are living in Hawaii, then I assure you I don't know, don't care and am not either of them.

 

[6th]

Yeah, I am particularly worried about the lack of much from Kenny, Kevin and Cisco right now. Not good...not good at all. Hard to tell what's the matter with KT. Not that he's a great shooter , but his shot looks really terrible lately. And its like with the slump, he just pouts and no more scrap and hustle, which is way more valuable to us than his shooting anyway. *sigh*

I agree. One of the reasons I liked KT in the starting lineup was because of his hustle and pounding of the boards. Shareef, on the other hand, provides much needed scoring from the bench. It seemed like the best of both worlds....or at least was perfectly scripted for this Kings team.

Now, KT is in a funk on the offensive end (where we don't even need his help) and that seems to be translating over to his rebounding and hustle. The last few games, it just isn't there. I could do without someone's head trip getting in the way of Kings wins.

Shareef, however, seems to be providing just what the Kings need...a scoring punch from the bench. The problem is, Bonzi is no longer coming off the bench with him, grabbing all those rebounds. Now that Bonzi is starting again, we miss the rebounding he provided from the bench, and so Reef's glaring lack of rebounding this year is highlighted more than ever.

Bonzi and Kenny are our best rebounders and they are playing at the same time...or at least starting together. I see them battling each other for boards. But, no one is making up for the loss of Bonzi's rebounding from the bench.

Okay, I may have just rambled a bit, but thought I'd weigh in on the argument, so I wouldn't feel totally left out.

 

[kennadog]

I agree. One of the reasons I liked KT in the starting lineup was because of his hustle and pounding of the boards. Shareef, on the other hand, provides much needed scoring from the bench. It seemed like the best of both worlds....or at least was perfectly scripted for this Kings team.

Now, KT is in a funk on the offensive end (where we don't even need his help) and that seems to be translating over to his rebounding and hustle. The last few games, it just isn't there. I could do without someone's head trip getting in the way of Kings wins.

Shareef, however, seems to be providing just what the Kings need...a scoring punch from the bench. The problem is, Bonzi is no longer coming off the bench with him, grabbing all those rebounds. Now that Bonzi is starting again, we miss the rebounding he provided from the bench, and so Reef's glaring lack of rebounding this year is highlighted more than ever.

Bonzi and Kenny are our best rebounders and they are playing at the same time...or at least starting together. I see them battling each other for boards. But, no one is making up for the loss of Bonzi's rebounding from the bench.

Okay, I may have just rambled a bit, but thought I'd weigh in on the argument, so I wouldn't feel totally left out.

I pretty much feel this way, too. Now that you're not totally left out, I wanted to make sure you didn't feel ignored either.

 

[6th]

I pretty much feel this way, too. Now that you're not totally left out, I wanted to make sure you didn't feel ignored either.

 

[piksi]

I pretty much feel this way, too. Now that you're not totally left out, I wanted to make sure you didn't feel ignored either.

And I want to make sure that - You are not saying all of this just to make 6th feel better

 

[6th]

And I want to make sure that - You are not saying all of this just to make 6th feel better

Of course she is, but I feel just fine, thanks.

 

[bozzwell]

I leave for 5 minutes and you turn a flamewar into a lovefest?

 

[coolhandluke]

I leave for 5 minutes and you turn a flamewar into a lovefest?

We are Kings fans after all. You never know from one moment to the next what you may see here.

 

[kennadog]

And I want to make sure that - You are not saying all of this just to make 6th feel better

 

[VF21]

We are Kings fans after all. You never know from one moment to the next what you may see here.

Kind of like the difference between a first half and a second half?

 

[kennadog]

^^^^ Roflmao