Section 101
All-Star
yes Petrie was trying to sign him when he went to the magic.
Some 'Under the Radar' FA's this offseason we wont have to break the bank for..
- Thread starter MassachusettsKingsFan
- Start date
yes Petrie was trying to sign him when he went to the magic.
Packt
Starter
Ariza was traded to Orlando from NY at the deadline. He was a restricted free agent that summer and was retained for 8million (3yrs).
He showed a lot of potential with NY, then ended up in Larry Browns doghouse. Brian Hill liked in him in ORL. Then Stan Van Gundy took over and wanted shooters around Dwight so they traded him.
What part makes you think that?
I predict the Bucks will resign Sessions and let Villanueva walk, then draft a replacement for him. Villanueva is a finished product and is a role player in the league, at his best playing off of others. Sessions still has room to grow, and can be one of the best players at his position.
He showed a lot of potential with NY, then ended up in Larry Browns doghouse. Brian Hill liked in him in ORL. Then Stan Van Gundy took over and wanted shooters around Dwight so they traded him.
What part makes you think that?
I predict the Bucks will resign Sessions and let Villanueva walk, then draft a replacement for him. Villanueva is a finished product and is a role player in the league, at his best playing off of others. Sessions still has room to grow, and can be one of the best players at his position.
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Peter_Gibbons
Starter
Playing on a good team makes the players look a lot better than they are. Like Mark Madsen when he played with shaq. For example, sasha vujajic wouldn't be much or a player playing on a bad team. He requires someone to feed him open looks. I think the lakers overpaid for sasha considering his performance this yr. So i'm not sure if Ariza is going to be good on other teams, especially on a rebuilding team like ours.
Ariza is a ok player, not bad. But why would anyone pay him more than the full MLE that his agent has already asked for. He said he should be in the $7 mil /yr range. Even just the full MLE is too much for Ariza in my opinion. If we can get him for $3-$4 mil than its good. But thats not what he is asking for. Playing on the lakers made him no longer under the radar. So his price tag is inflated.
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
Just to get a few things out of the way...
Ariza's not under the radar...anymore. Ever since he started producing for the Lakers this year, developed three point range, and became a serviceable sixth man and playoff contributor of sorts for them, I can tell you that there are many teams that will be dying to offer him the MLE, or more if they're reallly into him. There will be a definite bidding competition for him, as many wonder whether the Lakers will break the bank for both Ariza and Odom. If we can get him on the off chance that we really offer tons of $$ to him, or if he really wants to be a main guy on a bad team (both extremely unlikely scenarios), then more power to us. But highly, highly unlikely.
Big Baby...no. As a matter of fact, I take the contrarian view with this guy: he's just maximizing his talents with the Celts, as opposed to outwardly improving. I can see where some people may be excited about him--he's put up several 15-20 point games--but come on, scoring is the easiest thing to do in this league, and you can find it just about everywhere. And he's mostly a jumpshooter--for a big man, shooting 44% from the field is definitely below average. Look at what else he does--not much of anything. He's undersized for a big man, gives up inches and lacks lift to defend more skilled/athletically gifted players, but perhaps most importantly, is extremely foul prone and a terrible rebounder. The last two really did it in for me--the first two are somewhat ordinary for guys of his prototype, but the last two are habits of his game that pretty much make him who he is. His PER has been hovering around 10-12...let's not go Udonis Haslem on him (remember Haslem won a championship in 2006, was ridiculously overhyped as a key cog, then subsequently fell down to earth as he was revealed to be just another undersized guy in the league). I always got the impression that his intrigue mostly resided in the fact that he was just surprisingly mobile for a 300 lb guy--if he was 6'8" 230 lbs and doing what he did right now I really doubt he would be in the league. He just doesn't excel at much of anything. He's not that good...at all.
Gortat and Fesenko I've covered in other threads, and now these are two guys that are legitimately under the radar. I have a feeling Orlando already knows how good Gortat is, seeing how many double digit rebound games he's able to amass right there, so I'll go out on a limb and say that they'll try to keep him despite Howard anchoring the center spot. Fesenko on the other hand may be underappreciated, and he could be worth a flyer--his athleticism, strength, height and tenacity on defense are things we just completely lack in our big men, and he will be a welcome addition.
Ariza's not under the radar...anymore. Ever since he started producing for the Lakers this year, developed three point range, and became a serviceable sixth man and playoff contributor of sorts for them, I can tell you that there are many teams that will be dying to offer him the MLE, or more if they're reallly into him. There will be a definite bidding competition for him, as many wonder whether the Lakers will break the bank for both Ariza and Odom. If we can get him on the off chance that we really offer tons of $$ to him, or if he really wants to be a main guy on a bad team (both extremely unlikely scenarios), then more power to us. But highly, highly unlikely.
Big Baby...no. As a matter of fact, I take the contrarian view with this guy: he's just maximizing his talents with the Celts, as opposed to outwardly improving. I can see where some people may be excited about him--he's put up several 15-20 point games--but come on, scoring is the easiest thing to do in this league, and you can find it just about everywhere. And he's mostly a jumpshooter--for a big man, shooting 44% from the field is definitely below average. Look at what else he does--not much of anything. He's undersized for a big man, gives up inches and lacks lift to defend more skilled/athletically gifted players, but perhaps most importantly, is extremely foul prone and a terrible rebounder. The last two really did it in for me--the first two are somewhat ordinary for guys of his prototype, but the last two are habits of his game that pretty much make him who he is. His PER has been hovering around 10-12...let's not go Udonis Haslem on him (remember Haslem won a championship in 2006, was ridiculously overhyped as a key cog, then subsequently fell down to earth as he was revealed to be just another undersized guy in the league). I always got the impression that his intrigue mostly resided in the fact that he was just surprisingly mobile for a 300 lb guy--if he was 6'8" 230 lbs and doing what he did right now I really doubt he would be in the league. He just doesn't excel at much of anything. He's not that good...at all.
Gortat and Fesenko I've covered in other threads, and now these are two guys that are legitimately under the radar. I have a feeling Orlando already knows how good Gortat is, seeing how many double digit rebound games he's able to amass right there, so I'll go out on a limb and say that they'll try to keep him despite Howard anchoring the center spot. Fesenko on the other hand may be underappreciated, and he could be worth a flyer--his athleticism, strength, height and tenacity on defense are things we just completely lack in our big men, and he will be a welcome addition.
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.Ariza is an excellent piece on a contender like the Lakers, where he can play off of Gasol and Bryant. Hell, he's like the 7th option on the team. I don't think he'd be quite as serviceable playing on a lottery team.
BritishColumbia
Bench
Monia was one of the best prospects in Europe ... very strong, great defender, real athlete, decent shooter. Dusan Ivkovich (I hope it is a right spelling) made him a solid young player. However, he was not ready to play in a foreign country, could not speak English, was homesick. Something happened to him. He did nothing in NBA, could not adjust and came back home to play for Dynamo Moscow to Ivkovich. Unfortunately, now, he is no special, just a decent player. Some people say that he played better when he was 18.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
rainmaker
Hall of Famer
I would love to go after Sessions. I would rather spend 7-10mil a year on him than Turkoglu. He is young, and I see him improving from year to year. The kid is fearless, and relentlessly attacks the paint when he has the opportunity. He can penetrate and kick on a consistent basis, which is something this team hasn't had from the pg position in a while. He created a lot of open shots for both Redd and Jefferson. That is exactly what this team needs, a pg that can create for others.
On the Portland front, I know he isn't a FA, but I would love to bring Bayless in here. I think Portland will have to chose between Bayless and Rodriguez. He isn't doing them any good up there, but is way too talented to ride the bench. I wouldn't want him as our starting pg next year, but getting 20-25mins as a backup would be perfect, and then go from there depending on how he produces. He would be an upgrade over Beno though.
On the Portland front, I know he isn't a FA, but I would love to bring Bayless in here. I think Portland will have to chose between Bayless and Rodriguez. He isn't doing them any good up there, but is way too talented to ride the bench. I wouldn't want him as our starting pg next year, but getting 20-25mins as a backup would be perfect, and then go from there depending on how he produces. He would be an upgrade over Beno though.
Rockmeister
All-Star
Ummm....why don't you tell us how you really feel about him. LOL
Gary
All-Star
Thank you.. Remember that portrait photo I posted?? Now imagine that face in a Kings uni... LOL!!!
bajaden
Hall of Famer
The part where they mentioned they could be looking at a point guard. Your right, they could just let Villanueva walk, and if so, then probably go after Sessions. They're over the cap right now without signing either one. And which ever one they do sign, will probably put them over the luxury tax limit. Unless they can find a way to shed some salary, they might be better off financially letting them both walk.
I don't pretend to know the mindset of the Bucks front office, but most of the league is trying to advoid the luxury tax.
A
AriesMar27
Guest
the scary part of all of this is that the kings now have too many options.... but i doubt that the kings will use any of them and we will suck next season as well.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
A
AriesMar27
Guest
i try, but there are just so many options.
we could trade our #23 and cash pick for the bucks #10. then trade the #10, thomas and garcia for amare. the suns would then have the #10 and #14 picks. we would have amare, thompson and the #1 pick; not to mention our capspace would still be intact.
then we could trade nocioni to orlando for a s&t hedo.
our current roster without the #1 pick...
beno
martin
hedo/greene
amare/thompson
hawes
we can draft griffin or rubio, trade them for better players, whatever we want. there are too many damn options, they will find a wasy to mess this up. i know they will.
we could trade our #23 and cash pick for the bucks #10. then trade the #10, thomas and garcia for amare. the suns would then have the #10 and #14 picks. we would have amare, thompson and the #1 pick; not to mention our capspace would still be intact.
then we could trade nocioni to orlando for a s&t hedo.
our current roster without the #1 pick...
beno
martin
hedo/greene
amare/thompson
hawes
we can draft griffin or rubio, trade them for better players, whatever we want. there are too many damn options, they will find a wasy to mess this up. i know they will.
Andre Miller?
I don't know if this is already being discussed elsewhere, but Andre Miller is an unrestricted FA point who plays defense and judging by this that came down today:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11700394
does not appear to want to stay in Phily. Could we afford him with our cap room? Would we even want him? He is 33 years old, although very durable (missed 5 games total in his 10 years in the NBA so far) and averages 6.5 assists to about 2.5 turnovers and 1.3 steals over the last few years.
I'll admit I haven't followed him too closely over the years so others may have a better handle on his pros and cons.
I don't know if this is already being discussed elsewhere, but Andre Miller is an unrestricted FA point who plays defense and judging by this that came down today:
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/11700394
does not appear to want to stay in Phily. Could we afford him with our cap room? Would we even want him? He is 33 years old, although very durable (missed 5 games total in his 10 years in the NBA so far) and averages 6.5 assists to about 2.5 turnovers and 1.3 steals over the last few years.
I'll admit I haven't followed him too closely over the years so others may have a better handle on his pros and cons.
FakeInjury
Bench
Andre Miller is a classic Petrie player, and i have no doubt we will tender him an offer far greater than the Sixers would like. Its just what we do, we being Petrie. I wouldn't like to have Andre Miller on the kings because it makes Beno's contract redundant. I see the kings spending alot of money this offseason because its what Petrie knows how to do, and thats about it.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I have loved Andre Miller for a long time. Man I wish he was five years younger. The word to describe him is solid. He's never flashy, doesn't make mistakes and playes good defense. He's always had a good assist to turnover ratio. Good charactor guy to boot.
If you could get rid of Beno and his contract, and draft Rubio, he might be the perfect guy to help Rubio transition to the NBA. Unfortunately, I don't think we can rid ourselves of Beno, and Andre is likely to want more than we would want to pay and for too long a contract.
Arby's Roast Beef
Starter
Point guards who can't shoot tend to age badly. He's playing over his head. That being said, I like how he's been relatively consistent and he plays a relatively efficient style of play. Not for us
At the risk of incurring the wrath of that dogbert bat, let me disagree with you (slightly). I agree that Andre Miller isn't right for us, especially as we have the big contract with Beno and Miller will probably want more than we can offer and at more years than we would want to offer.
That said, the idea that we don't want to bring in any player just because he is 33 is not something I would agree with. Yes, we are rebuilding and focusing on youth, but most successful rebuilds bring in a few solid veterans as well. Let's not forget that our resurgence in the late 90s came not just from drafting JWill and Peja, but also from bringing in a 31 year old Vlade Divac as a (most claimed way overpriced) free agent. In retrospect, that may have been the best move of all that we made in that rebuild, even better than the CWebb trade.
Other examples: The Heat won their championship by rebuilding with rookie D-Wade, but also veteran Shaq. The Suns resurgence came by drafting Stoudamire and Marion, but also signing an aging Steve Nash. The Spurs championships have mostly been about Duncan, and more recently Parker and Ginobli, all of whom were draft picks, but one of their most valuable pieces over the years was the Bruce Bowen who they picked up later in his career. Most really solid rebuilds have a mix of youth and experience.
In fact, the most recent example of a rebuild that went to youth more exclusively is Portland- and it showed when they lost in the first round of the playoffs this year despite having homecourt advantage. Worse than that, think of the post Jordan Chicago Bulls rebuilds, where they built around Eddy Curry, Tyson Chandler, Jamal Crawford, Jason Williams (the 2nd) etc. They never got off the ground.
I think we could use another couple of key veteran players to mix into our rebuilding effort and Miller wouldn't have been a bad one... if it weren't for the fact that he probably will be overpriced and, besides, he's a guard who can't shoot 3s worth a darn. But I think we should keep looking at key potential players who are in their 30s.
THe Bulls never got off the ground because Krause was an idiot, and along with Paxon they ran it into the ground. They are terrible judges of character, and being consistently bad they were not able to translate picks into wins. The picks that did end up being great players were allowed to leave (Miller, Artest, Brand), and the terrible ones stuck around (Curry, Chandler - injury prone, inneffective, Crawford) or just the freaky ones (Williams, who was showing promise even though he was a dissapointment in the first season he played). Bottom line - draft better. Talent does not equal greatness. There are intangibles. That's whats allowed Miller to stick around given his lack of shooting/athletic ability.
Having said that... Beno's contract is the new KT. Unless he somehow discoveres his inner Chris Paul, his trade value will not go up until the team starts performing better. No point in signing Miller. Focus should be on an actual PG, in which case you swallow what's left of your pride, relegate Beno to the bench and ride it out (see, the KT thing was just practice, this time WE actually gave the idiotic contract, but now we know how to deal with it)and let it fester like fine wine until down the road, it becomes an expiring! Oh joy of unbridled joys!
Long story short, no to Miller, if plan is to draft the next wiz kid (Rubio, Jennings, whatever) We need for someone to just learn, not be babied. We've hit rock bottom and started drilling through. Nowhere to go but up, and no real reason for veterans unless they're going to be the 10,11,12th guy off the bench and mentor. You know... Lindsey Hunter, the guys whose time is up but their knowledge and demeanor still can affect the team.
Having said that... Beno's contract is the new KT. Unless he somehow discoveres his inner Chris Paul, his trade value will not go up until the team starts performing better. No point in signing Miller. Focus should be on an actual PG, in which case you swallow what's left of your pride, relegate Beno to the bench and ride it out (see, the KT thing was just practice, this time WE actually gave the idiotic contract, but now we know how to deal with it)and let it fester like fine wine until down the road, it becomes an expiring! Oh joy of unbridled joys!
Long story short, no to Miller, if plan is to draft the next wiz kid (Rubio, Jennings, whatever) We need for someone to just learn, not be babied. We've hit rock bottom and started drilling through. Nowhere to go but up, and no real reason for veterans unless they're going to be the 10,11,12th guy off the bench and mentor. You know... Lindsey Hunter, the guys whose time is up but their knowledge and demeanor still can affect the team.
As far as under the radar guys go, I really like CJ Watson from Golden State.
What I really like about him is his defense. Although nobody seems to talk about him, he was easily the W's best backcourt defender this year, and was the guy they would bring off the bench to contain guys who were lighting up Ellis and Crawford, for instance when he did a very good job on Martin in the second half and in overtime the night Kevin went for 50. Admittedly comparing anyone to Crawford and Ellis defensively will make them look good, but I watched him a lot this year and his D is good, better than anyone in our backcourt this year as well.
Offensively he has been pretty good as well, he's a combo guard, but showed he was capable of running the point this year for the Warriors. He shot 40% from 3 this year, and stat-wise he's comparable to other combo guards like Delonte West, Hinrich, Jack, Farmar, and Bobby Jackson.
Considering that the W's are already paying 20 million for 2 other combo guards next year, they might not be looking to bring him back. Dependign on what we do in the draft, he maybe a good fit for us as our backup 1-2, and could come very cheap. He is 25, but this was just his second year in the league so most likely there is still room for improvement.
What I really like about him is his defense. Although nobody seems to talk about him, he was easily the W's best backcourt defender this year, and was the guy they would bring off the bench to contain guys who were lighting up Ellis and Crawford, for instance when he did a very good job on Martin in the second half and in overtime the night Kevin went for 50. Admittedly comparing anyone to Crawford and Ellis defensively will make them look good, but I watched him a lot this year and his D is good, better than anyone in our backcourt this year as well.
Offensively he has been pretty good as well, he's a combo guard, but showed he was capable of running the point this year for the Warriors. He shot 40% from 3 this year, and stat-wise he's comparable to other combo guards like Delonte West, Hinrich, Jack, Farmar, and Bobby Jackson.
Considering that the W's are already paying 20 million for 2 other combo guards next year, they might not be looking to bring him back. Dependign on what we do in the draft, he maybe a good fit for us as our backup 1-2, and could come very cheap. He is 25, but this was just his second year in the league so most likely there is still room for improvement.
FakeInjury
Bench
You should be the one drafting not Petrie. I think the Kings should let the fans decide. It would be a great PR ploy, because the votes would be doctored anyways. But maybe, it would prevent a total disaster pick. I agree that Beno should stay because he is honestly a highly serviceable NBA pg. Beno is young and talented and his skills prove he isn't an egomaniac, which is very under rated. Beno can keep his job, but it doesn't change the fact that he needs to improve and we need to upgrade. Free agents that already made thier money and chase more money to be on an underachieving team are a red flag. We want hungry 2 year deal players like Chris Wilcox's last contract.
Big Cuz 15
All-Star
i'm not down w/ breaking the bank for anybody this summer. we need another year or two of suckitude to get some high picks. we happened to be retardly stupid and suck in the year that has no super stud.
Chris Andersen?
I didn't read the threat thoroughly, but I hope someone mentioned Chris Andersen.
I think he could be had for relatively cheap (say... 3 yrs, 12M) and if we are lucky enough to draft Rubio, he would fit right in with the new Kings offense. We desperately need his shot blocking (6 rebounds and 2.5bpg playing only 20mpg this season) and athleticism. He'd be fantastic on the receiving end of Rubio alley oops.
I didn't read the threat thoroughly, but I hope someone mentioned Chris Andersen.
I think he could be had for relatively cheap (say... 3 yrs, 12M) and if we are lucky enough to draft Rubio, he would fit right in with the new Kings offense. We desperately need his shot blocking (6 rebounds and 2.5bpg playing only 20mpg this season) and athleticism. He'd be fantastic on the receiving end of Rubio alley oops.
One and Done
Bench
I really like Birdman...he's definitely bench mob material. But, he's been a key piece off the bench for Denver, so we'll probably have to "break the bank" for him.
I'd also take a look at Brandon Bass, who's undersized, but has been effective off the bench for Dallas.
Not liking much else, either they don't solve any of our problems (Frye, Wilcox, Villanueva), they'll ask for too much $ (Varejao), or they simply suck (McRoberts). Also, backcourt players are in short supply this offseason, which really requires us to draft one or two PG's (since we know what Beno's upside is).
Looking at this year's FA crop, it's clear that - to be a better team - we're going to have to make some trades in addition to drafting well. Otherwise, it'll be the same squad, 2-3 rooks, and the usual Summer League Scrubs that Petrie signs in August.
I'd also take a look at Brandon Bass, who's undersized, but has been effective off the bench for Dallas.
Not liking much else, either they don't solve any of our problems (Frye, Wilcox, Villanueva), they'll ask for too much $ (Varejao), or they simply suck (McRoberts). Also, backcourt players are in short supply this offseason, which really requires us to draft one or two PG's (since we know what Beno's upside is).
Looking at this year's FA crop, it's clear that - to be a better team - we're going to have to make some trades in addition to drafting well. Otherwise, it'll be the same squad, 2-3 rooks, and the usual Summer League Scrubs that Petrie signs in August.
