Roy Hibbert

[VF21]

...but if we're deciding between say JWright and Hawes/Hibbert we pick Wright because our need for a potential all-star is much greater than an OK big man.

In that case, I'd really have to think about passing on Hibbert if only because big men with any kind of real talent (even if just OK) are becoming fewer and fewer. My thought is that enduring another group of years with a continual diet of small ball would probably drive me insane.

 

[Vlade4GM]

We are? I didn't realize Artest was retiring.

or at least we SHOULD be starting over, sorry sometimes I confuse what we absolutely without a doubt need to do with what the kings actually plan to do

 

[Vlade4GM]

In that case, I'd really have to think about passing on Hibbert if only because big men with any kind of real talent (even if just OK) are becoming fewer and fewer. My thought is that enduring another group of years with a continual diet of small ball would probably drive me insane.

Respectable stance, but I still take BPA considering we're pretty desperate for some identity and upside. Doesn't look like it matters much now though since it seems that both nbadraft.net and draftexpress are buying wright's announcement that he'll return. lame.

 

[bigbadred00]

or at least we SHOULD be starting over, sorry sometimes I confuse what we absolutely without a doubt need to do with what the kings actually plan to do

So if we have a starting 3, who isn't that old. I can't see us drafting Green this year unless we move Artest.

 

[Vlade4GM]

So if we have a starting 3, who isn't that old. I can't see us drafting Green this year unless we move Artest.

Well I wasn't talking about Green and I'm speaking more in a hypothetical sense assuming the kings do the right thing and start over.

 

[BMiller52]

I think Hibbert is better than Green and Wright. He is 1 of the main reasons GTown has the best D or something like that and Wright just seems too passive to ever be an all star to me.

 

[bigbadred00]

Well I wasn't talking about Green and I'm speaking more in a hypothetical sense assuming the kings do the right thing and start over.

Okay. How bout realistically, seeing that it'll never happen that will just throw everything away. What makes the most sense for this team. I think a big man does over a swing player. This year is pretty deep in big men. I think there are atleast 7 or 8 good quality big men. There are only really 1 franchise big men in Oden but the rest could definitely be all star quality if they work out.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Okay. How bout realistically, seeing that it'll never happen that will just throw everything away. What makes the most sense for this team. I think a big man does over a swing player. This year is pretty deep in big men. I think there are atleast 7 or 8 good quality big men. There are only really 1 franchise big men in Oden but the rest could definitely be all star quality if they work out.

Well assuming that Wright were to declare I'd still consider him over a Roy Hibbert since Ron being gone this offseason isn't that much of a stretch. With the current projections right now I'd definitely go big, either JYL, Hibbert, or Hawes sounds good to me.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think that's why Wright and Hawes are generally projected 4-8 while Hibbert is 8-12. Hibbert could be a good one, but few I think are expecting him to be a true star. Hawes and Wright both are looked at as potential stars, and as much as I think Hibbert would be a nice addition and maybe help set a new tone up front, if we are somehow lucky enough to land a potential star level talent I think we have to go for it. We've positively bled talent the last three years, and we really need to find a dimaond in this draft if we are going to have nay hope of turning this around -- REALLY turning it around -- without a multiple year stay in the lottery.

 

[bigbadred00]

I think that's why Wright and Hawes are generally projected 4-8 while Hibbert is 8-12. Hibbert could be a good one, but few I think are expecting him to be a true star. Hawes and Wright both are looked at as potential stars, and as much as I think Hibbert would be a nice addition and maybe help set a new tone up front, if we are somehow lucky enough to land a potential star level talent I think we have to go for it. We've positively bled talent the last three years, and we really need to find a dimaond in this draft if we are going to have nay hope of turning this around -- REALLY turning it around -- without a multiple year stay in the lottery.

I'm not meaning to be racist, but when is the last time an American Born White Center has been truly stars in the NBA. I haven't seen much of Hawes and I know he's a lottery prospect but so were guys like Chris Kaman, Collison and Swift have turned out. I guess he could be really good but American Born White players don't really dominate the NBA in any way right now. Honestly it can be argued a couple years ago Brad Miller was the best American White Player. Now, it might be Mike Miller or someone marginal like that.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'm not meaning to be racist, but when is the last time an American Born White Center has been truly stars in the NBA. I haven't seen much of Hawes and I know he's a lottery prospect but so were guys like Chris Kaman, Collison and Swift have turned out. I guess he could be really good but American Born White players don't really dominate the NBA in any way right now. Honestly it can be argued a couple years ago Brad Miller was the best American White Player. Now, it might be Mike Miller or someone marginal like that.

There is no magic to it -- guys can either play or they can't. I have questions about Hawes' toughness, but his interior skillset is more advanced at his age than just about anybody his age, of whatever color or creed.

 

[Vlade4GM]

There is no magic to it -- guys can either play or they can't. I have questions about Hawes' toughness, but his interior skillset is more advanced at his age than just about anybody his age, of whatever color or creed.

I'd say Hawes upside is probably around 15-17 ppg 8-10 rpg 3-4 apg and 1bpg

In talking Hawes vs Hibbert, it's basically weighing defense vs offense. It's a tough decision for me because Hibbert's got really good length and could provide good rebounding and shot blocking, but hawes has a little more upside imo.

 

[bigbadred00]

I'd say Hawes upside is probably around 15-17 ppg 8-10 rpg 3-4 apg and 1bpg

In talking Hawes vs Hibbert, it's basically weighing defense vs offense. It's a tough decision for me because Hibbert's got really good length and could provide good rebounding and shot blocking, but hawes has a little more upside imo.

If Hawes comparison is Brad Miller, I think we have something to worry about seeing. You win in the NBA due to superior play but for the most part all the last 20 or so and probally longer have had great interior D something we haven't had in a long time. We need someone to guard the paint. Dallas as stated earlier has 2 guys who do it. Miami has Shaq, Lakers had Shaq, Duncan is on SA, Chicago had a mix including Rodman and Grant. You can't win without it. We have none of it.

 

[BMiller52]

I'd say Hawes upside is probably around 15-17 ppg 8-10 rpg 3-4 apg and 1bpg

In talking Hawes vs Hibbert, it's basically weighing defense vs offense. It's a tough decision for me because Hibbert's got really good length and could provide good rebounding and shot blocking, but hawes has a little more upside imo.

I'd say Hibbert's upside is probably 18 PPG/9-10 RPG/3 APG/ 2 BPG. I would take him over Hawes considering what we need.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I'd say Hibbert's upside is probably 18 PPG/9-10 RPG/3 APG/ 2 BPG. I would take him over Hawes considering what we need.

I'd have to disagree with your scoring projection for Hibbert, his post moves are just not advanced enough for that kind of scoring and he's just not that athletic. I guess it's possible if he really works on his offensive game he can accomplish that but I really wouldn't count on it.

 

[BMiller52]

I'd have to disagree with your scoring projection for Hibbert, his post moves are just not advanced enough for that kind of scoring and he's just not that athletic. I guess it's possible if he really works on his offensive game he can accomplish that but I really wouldn't count on it.

What are you talking about?? Hibbert has a lot of post moves. I saw him basically own Aaron Gray, he was destroying him on D and scoring on Gray at will. I saw him use good foot work and I saw him use hook shots. I saw him do basically anything he wanted. I know Gray isn't a good defender but he is an NBA calibre center. And Hibbert was scoring on him at will. It's not like Hibbert won't get more touches in the NBA because college is full of 3 point chuckers.

 

[Venom]

You have to look at where the value is going to be in respect to our pick. If we land in the 8-12 range, like Bricklayer is saying, the value will be at the SF position and possibly Hibbert. If we have a higher pick then we can look at guys like Horford, JYL or maybe a Brandon Wright (who I'm not sold on, but is tantalizing). If we drop even further in the lottery then we will be looking at guys like Afflalo, Acie Law IV, Darren Collison, Mike Conley, Noah and Tiago Splitter. This is basketball, you go BPA. A good coach can devise a system to get his best players on the floor and enable them to be productive. But at 8-12 the value will be in guys like Brewer, Green, Julian Wright (should he declare) and Brandon Rush.

Either way, I want a high character guy who loves the game of basketball, not the money basketball will bring him. Which means next year, no OJ Mayo, haha.

 

[Venom]

What are you talking about?? Hibbert has a lot of post moves. I saw him basically own Aaron Gray, he was destroying him on D and scoring on Gray at will. I saw him use good foot work and I saw him use hook shots. I saw him do basically anything he wanted. I know Gray isn't a good defender but he is an NBA calibre center. And Hibbert was scoring on him at will. It's not like Hibbert won't get more touches in the NBA because college is full of 3 point chuckers.

I agree, he has a solid arsenal of moves already. It's just that not all of them lead to gorilla dunks like people want to see. To my eye, he has picked up alot of the subtleties of playing the post in a Princeton hybrid offense. I also like the Georgetown pedigree, and think that JTIII is an even better coach than his father. Green and Hibbert will be ready to contribute next year and already have a solid foundation in the game. Contrast that to a kid who has been coached by Roy Williams, Barnes, Self, or Matta.

 

[venom_7]

If he's the best big talent available, then take him.

 

[venom_7]

I'd have to disagree with your scoring projection for Hibbert, his post moves are just not advanced enough for that kind of scoring and he's just not that athletic. I guess it's possible if he really works on his offensive game he can accomplish that but I really wouldn't count on it.

double post
which is fine because this team has scorers. we just need a guy who can contribute defensively and not be a ditch in the offense.

 

[tjobrien]

I'd have to disagree with your scoring projection for Hibbert, his post moves are just not advanced enough for that kind of scoring and he's just not that athletic. I guess it's possible if he really works on his offensive game he can accomplish that but I really wouldn't count on it.

As others said, you are flat out wrong about his post moves. He's a very fundamentally sound player in the post.

 

[Gary]

He's been terrible against good competition. That's his major flaw. That's Tyler Hansbrough's flaw as well. He's not good against real big guys.

Honestly, if we have a mid first round pick and we took Fazekas, Petrie should be fired. We need the same thing half the league needs, a defender in the paint. I'm not sure if were an Oden away from a title but I think if we magically got him with the rest of our team, we'd be significantly better.

We talking about the same guy? He hasn't been THAT bad...

Against UNLV he put up 16pts 17rbds 2asts 2blks
Against New Mexico St. he put up 21pts 7rbds 2blks
Against Fresno St. he put up 20pts 10rbds
Against Fresno St. (again) he put up 33pts 15rbds
Against Gonzaga he put up 24pts 9rbds 2blks
Against Creighton he put up 17pts 11rbds 4blks
Against Memphis he put up 20pts 7rbds 3blks

Fazekas is a 85% free throw shooter, and he hits 43% of his 3pt shots (with 2 3pt shots per game on avg). His 1.5 blocks a game will probally translate into about .4-.6 per game in the NBA (if starting) but his rebounding will be decent, and since he has an offensive game w/ a jump shot I can see him getting a lot of open mid range jumpers in the NBA. Plus the guy can pass. What more do we want?

If we can pick up a early second rounder I say draft the guy... If he is projected to go late first I say we trade our pick for a late first rounder, and a player... Fazekas is the real deal. What do we have to lose?

*The guy made UNR a winning team his first year on the squad.
*He has improved his game every year in college.

If we are going young than why not give this guy a chance to start. I am sure he wouldn't be any worse than K9, and SAR together.

But his defense is questionable. BUT he does have a passion for the game, and I am sure he can learn to be an average defender at best. Put a beast of a center in there next to him and We would be OK..

 

[Bricklayer]

If we can pick up a early second rounder I say draft the guy... If he is projected to go late first I say we trade our pick for a late first rounder, and a player... Fazekas is the real deal. What do we have to lose?

Oh whoa whoa WHOA there horsey.

Everybody has their favorites, but NBA scouts are almost universal in their red flagging of this guy for lacking the strength and athleticism to be much in the NBA. Nevada has had a nice run with him there, but college stars who flop in the NBA are a dime and dozen, and often as not its precisely because they are unable to handle the superior size/strength/athleticism of the guys at the next level. If we had a second round pick, and this guy was there, its something you could think about. A why not pick. But you simply cannot sacrifice a high pick with an excellent chance to net a major contributor for a guy with serious and well known deficiencies he is going to have to overcome to make it with the big boys.

 

[BMiller52]

We talking about the same guy? He hasn't been THAT bad...

Against UNLV he put up 16pts 17rbds 2asts 2blks
Against New Mexico St. he put up 21pts 7rbds 2blks
Against Fresno St. he put up 20pts 10rbds
Against Fresno St. (again) he put up 33pts 15rbds
Against Gonzaga he put up 24pts 9rbds 2blks
Against Creighton he put up 17pts 11rbds 4blks
Against Memphis he put up 20pts 7rbds 3blks

Fazekas is a 85% free throw shooter, and he hits 43% of his 3pt shots (with 2 3pt shots per game on avg). His 1.5 blocks a game will probally translate into about .4-.6 per game in the NBA (if starting) but his rebounding will be decent, and since he has an offensive game w/ a jump shot I can see him getting a lot of open mid range jumpers in the NBA. Plus the guy can pass. What more do we want?

If we can pick up a early second rounder I say draft the guy... If he is projected to go late first I say we trade our pick for a late first rounder, and a player... Fazekas is the real deal. What do we have to lose?

No. It's not always you have an opportunity to draft talented defensive players and you do in this draft. I am fine with trading Miller, Artest, etc. for a late 1st/player or an early 2nd/player but NOT our pick. Absolutely not.

BTW Fazekas reminds me of Mehmet Okur who is a damn good player.

 

[BawLa]

I think that's why Wright and Hawes are generally projected 4-8 while Hibbert is 8-12. Hibbert could be a good one, but few I think are expecting him to be a true star.

Sounds like Kevin Martin to me.

Hawes and Wright both are looked at as potential stars, and as much as I think Hibbert would be a nice addition and maybe help set a new tone up front, if we are somehow lucky enough to land a potential star level talent I think we have to go for it. We've positively bled talent the last three years, and we really need to find a dimaond in this draft if we are going to have nay hope of turning this around -- REALLY turning it around -- without a multiple year stay in the lottery.

That is probably inevitable. I think either way that a guy like Hibbert could be one element to build off of in said multiple-year stay. And the reality is that he might actually fall to our level.

 

[Gary]

The think about Fazekas is that he isn't weak for his size.. He can put on another 15lbs and be a 6"11 / 265 lbs player. He's not small right now by any means. Defensively I have watched more than a few UNR games, and he isn't as bad as everyone says he is. It's not like he is lost or anything. He does get pushed around by bigger guys. He has the potential to become a decent defender, although I don't think that will be a major part of his game... He is polished though offensively, and that will transition to the NBA game pretty well. He's probally one of the most polished offensive guys in the draft. Defense is fine and dandy but if your team cant score than you are done.

 

[bigbadred00]

The think about Fazekas is that he isn't weak for his size.. He can put on another 15lbs and be a 6"11 / 265 lbs player. He's not small right now by any means. Defensively I have watched more than a few UNR games, and he isn't as bad as everyone says he is. It's not like he is lost or anything. He does get pushed around by bigger guys. He has the potential to become a decent defender, although I don't think that will be a major part of his game... He is polished though offensively, and that will transition to the NBA game pretty well. He's probally one of the most polished offensive guys in the draft. Defense is fine and dandy but if your team cant score than you are done.

Have the Kings really ever had trouble scoring? The team has been lacking an interior defender for a while. The Kings give up way too many layups and short shots.

 

[nbrans]

The think about Fazekas is that he isn't weak for his size.. He can put on another 15lbs and be a 6"11 / 265 lbs player. He's not small right now by any means. Defensively I have watched more than a few UNR games, and he isn't as bad as everyone says he is. It's not like he is lost or anything. He does get pushed around by bigger guys. He has the potential to become a decent defender, although I don't think that will be a major part of his game... He is polished though offensively, and that will transition to the NBA game pretty well. He's probally one of the most polished offensive guys in the draft. Defense is fine and dandy but if your team cant score than you are done.

My friend, you are watching the games through Wolfpack colored glasses. Fazekas is one of the weakest, least athletic college power forwards I've ever seen. Guards can push him off the block. He has some skills, but he is like a softer, weaker Troy Murphy. No thank you. Not late in the first round, not late in the second.

Also, I can't shake the feeling that Jeff Green is another Chris Porter. Someone tell me how he is going to get points.

Back to Hibbert, he reminds me a lot of Brendan Haywood, but at the same time, if he's really 7'2" those extra couple of inches could really come in handy. I'd put him behind Oden, Durant, B. Wright, Horford, Jianlian and Noah, but if at least with Hibbert we wouldn't be smallballing it.

 

[Vlade4GM]

He's less athletic than haywood, but longer. Good footwork and solid post moves (not great), but he's slow and mechanical. The thing is with Hibbert is he doesn't fit an up tempo offense, so does that mean we decide not to go in that direction because of him? Since we aren't likely to get a franchise changer this draft perhaps we should pick towards what kind of system we want to run.

 

[Venom]

My friend, you are watching the games through Wolfpack colored glasses. Fazekas is one of the weakest, least athletic college power forwards I've ever seen. Guards can push him off the block. He has some skills, but he is like a softer, weaker Troy Murphy. No thank you. Not late in the first round, not late in the second.

Also, I can't shake the feeling that Jeff Green is another Chris Porter. Someone tell me how he is going to get points.

Back to Hibbert, he reminds me a lot of Brendan Haywood, but at the same time, if he's really 7'2" those extra couple of inches could really come in handy. I'd put him behind Oden, Durant, B. Wright, Horford, Jianlian and Noah, but if at least with Hibbert we wouldn't be smallballing it.

Well, Porter was nothing but a nice vertical, and did not have near the fundamentals coming out of Auburn. He would get some impressive help side blocks, but I don't recall his defense being good or that he was all that great at rebounding. Green will probably start off getting garbage points until he develops a nice mid-range jumper. He'll have to work on his shooting to really be able to stretch a defense, just like Oakley, Artest, Pippen and every other defense-first kid who came into the league. However, unlike Porter, he has improved every year at Georgetown and plays hard every game. He is a high character guy with a high basketball IQ. My main point is that if he is the BPA when we pick, then pull the trigger, because he will be a solid contributor if not an All-Star.

I think Hibbert is easily smarter and harder-working than Haywood. Haywood is stupid, lazy, and sensitive about it. I remember him being in perpetual foul trouble, despite the UNC bias, because he was so darn stupid. Hibbert has had foul trouble during the tournament, but so has Oden. I think these officials just don't know how to call a game when there's a legit big fella in there. Also, Haywood never developed post moves in college. I mean never.