Who are contenders?

[ESP47]

sactowndog you've got a serious case of Monte derangement syndrome. I can be a negative Nancy as well as anyone but you should really step back from this Monte stuff. I used to really enjoy your posts but they've devolved into this repetitive nature where I already basically know what you're going to say before you say it. No need to shoe horn the same thing into every conversation. It's just not interesting in the slightest. You were one of the better posters when you spent more time talking about the game instead of fixating on Monte.

 

[kingsboi]

View attachment 13987

Table cuts off but Spurs, LA and Bulls had 10.33 averages for GM.

Just speculating but I would bet it has actually gotten shorter over the last 7 seasons.

source: https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/sbm-09-2022-0081/full/html

If you scroll down the table the Kings are in the category of lowest tenured head coaches at under 3 years.

that table runs until 2018 but it does go back to what you said in a comment above with the average GMs tenure lasting 4 to 5 years. I didn't realize until I recently looked it up but Sean Marks has been with the Nets since 2016.

 

[sactowndog]

I did not love the Hurley pick but also have to give that one an incomplete.

Was he the Hurley pick or was that Geoff. I think the Berry pick was more unfortunate. That kid was going to be a star

 

[sactowndog]

sactowndog you've got a serious case of Monte derangement syndrome. I can be a negative Nancy as well as anyone but you should really step back from this Monte stuff. I used to really enjoy your posts but they've devolved into this repetitive nature where I already basically know what you're going to say before you say it. No need to shoe horn the same thing into every conversation. It's just not interesting in the slightest. You were one of the better posters when you spent more time talking about the game instead of fixating on Monte.

I haven’t said a damn thing about Monte. I see it as more a testament to King’s fandom given all the crap people have had to endure. Though looking at Reynolds I think he was much better than people give him credit for. Without Jerry giving him assets Petrie does not do what he does

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Was he the Hurley pick or was that Geoff. I think the Berry pick was more unfortunate. That kid was going to be a star

Brian Grant was Geoff's first pick, Hurley was the year before.

 

[Section 101]

I haven’t said a damn thing about Monte. I see it as more a testament to King’s fandom given all the crap people have had to endure. Though looking at Reynolds I think he was much better than people give him credit for. Without Jerry giving him assets Petrie does not do what he does

It’s a long and distinguished list but who are the contenders for top 5 worst GM’s in Sacramento Kings history.

Petrie is the best. Vlade is an easy first choice. Some may disagree but I put Monte on the list.

Pete was bad but wasn’t around long enough to really do damage so not sure about him.

Others to be considered?

 

[sactowndog]

Fine yes I put Monte on the list but I’m not rating or slotting without all the contenders.

 

[sactowndog]

Boy the more I look at Jerry the more I think he might be the unluckiest GM ever.

* Gets the #1 pick in a bad draft where only 1 player made the hall of fame and zero bigs or wings made it.

* Has one drafted player destined to be a star in Ricky Berry pass away

* Has another player Bobby Hurley get in a tragic auto accident.

* drafts co Rookie of the year in Simmons whose career is cut short by injuries

Holy Crap. I think the man needed an exorcist more than to be fired.

 

[chief bromden]

Boy the more I look at Jerry the more I think he might be the unluckiest GM ever.

* Gets the #1 pick in a bad draft where only 1 player made the hall of fame and zero bigs or wings made it.

* Has one drafted player destined to be a star in Ricky Berry pass away

* Has another player Bobby Hurley get in a tragic auto accident.

* drafts co Rookie of the year in Simmons whose career is cut short by injuries

Holy Crap. I think the man needed an exorcist more than to be fired.

You missing on Vlade Divac being in the Hall of Fame is fitting.

 

[sactowndog]

Bill Russell was really, really bad in his one year. Axelson you can just go through the list of people he passed in the draft. Jerry is nothing special but he did leave Petrie stuff to work with. Petrie just came in day one and started making moves. Drafted Brian Grant and Michael Smith which lead to a playoff push immediately followed by the second playoff appearance in Sacramento Kings history the following year. The wheels fell off right after and in the modern NBA that might have got him sacked, but his next two off seasons were banging and that sparked the turnaround and our golden years.

In reality - Monte probably leaves the Kings with more assets than Jerry did, but the come down from the promise of 22-23 combined with watching Tyrese ascend in the East is too much for most fans to bear. I would have liked to see what he could have done this offseason with the mess he created - assuming maybe he had a vision at one point(?), but I kind of think Perry is better at the little interpersonal skills that go a long way.

Also we'll never know if Monte and Wes were tight, there was plenty of speculation that they were competitive. But I think that Perry and BJ may actually be on the same page. Too early to tell.

I’m going to set Monte aside for a bit but just looking at Jerry Reynolds moves there are very few one would do differently in hindsight.

Lionel Simmons with the 7th pick was a great pick. He was co rookie of the year but only lasted 7 seasons

The Billy Owen’s pick and trade for Richmond was fantastic

Walt Williams was not bad picking 7th maybe you could say should have picked Doug Christie.

Bobby Hurley at 7 was again not terrible. No all stars he missed.

Most of his trades added picks Petrie later used. Having Bad lottery luck does not make one a bad GM.

Bad
The Olden Polynice trade

The Kenny Smith trade was bad

But net net given what he had Jerry was actually pretty Fing good. Maybe the unluckiest GM ever between lottery luck, Berry’s suicide, Bobby’s car crash.

But he maximized the very bad hand he was given and set Petrie up for success.

 

[sactowndog]

Bill Russell had a short tenure.

Drafted Ricky Berry 17
This selection was a great selection. Maybe blame for not getting needed psych help.

Drafted Pervis Ellison over Elliot, Rice or Divac
This was a bad draft choice.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Bill Russell had a short tenure.

Drafted Ricky Berry 17
This selection was a great selection. Maybe blame for not getting needed psych help.

Drafted Pervis Ellison over Elliot, Rice or Divac
This was a bad draft choice.

Bill Russell also traded for Ralph Sampson which had a pretty negative impact on the club's financial stability during this era.

Bee had a nice but pretty brutal retrospective recapping his time in Sacramento after he passed.
https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article264078771.html

He is one of my all time favorites but Sacramento was a sad end to his career.

 

[sactowndog]

Interesting. You can make a good case Jerry was better than Geoff. Yes the trade for Weber, drafting Peja, trading for Bibby, and drafting Hedo drafting Wallace, drafting Kevin Martin were all good moves.

But

Drafted Jason Williams with Dirk Nowitski and Paul Pierce on the board

Drafted Tyreke Evans with Steph Curry, DeMar DeRozen and Jrue Holiday on the board

Drafted Cousins with Paul George and Gordon Hayward

With the 7th pick (Jimmer) with Kemba Walker, K Leonard, Jimmy Butler, K Thompson, Tobias Harris, Vuc..

With the 5th pick drafted T Robinson with Lillard, A Drummond and misses C Middleton in round 2.

Conservatively Geoff missed 8 future Hall of Famers ( 3 first ballot types in Dirk, Leonard, Curry) in his drafts and I can’t count a single one the Jerry missed and he got us Mitch which resulted in Weber.

 

[sactowndog]

So it seems like the real question is, who is the second best GM? I'd probably go for Monte, though I'd criticize the last two years, and those mistakes are still fresh

From what I have seen I might put Jerry Reynolds as the best in terms of maximizing the hand he was given. Petrie had a pretty great run but a lot of spectacular misses happened under his watch.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Interesting. You can make a good case Jerry was better than Geoff. Yes the trade for Weber, drafting Peja, trading for Bibby, and drafting Hedo drafting Wallace, drafting Kevin Martin were all good moves.

But

Drafted Jason Williams with Dirk Nowitski and Paul Pierce on the board

Drafted Tyreke Evans with Steph Curry, DeMar DeRozen and Jrue Holiday on the board

Drafted Cousins with Paul George and Gordon Hayward

With the 7th pick (Jimmer) with Kemba Walker, K Leonard, Jimmy Butler, K Thompson, Tobias Harris, Vuc..

With the 5th pick drafted T Robinson with Lillard, A Drummond and misses C Middleton in round 2.

Conservatively Geoff missed 8 future Hall of Famers ( 3 first ballot types in Dirk, Leonard, Curry) in his drafts and I can’t count a single one the Jerry missed and he got us Mitch we resulted in Weber.

This falls apart when you consider Kings never won 30 games under Jerry's tenure and Geoff immediately shot this team in the arm with the selections of Brian Grant and Michael Smith in 1994 which immediately lead to back to back 39 win seasons where we were in the playoff hunt during the last week of the season and then made the playoffs the following year.

You could do a lot of what ifs under Petrie like what if instead of Peja he picked Steve Nash would he have picked Dirk or Pierce the following year, but he picked Peja who was a hell of a discovery and then picked Williams who he had the balls to trade for Bibby not long after.

I wanted to show that Jerry was not as bad as his record might indicate but at some point his failure to lead this team to one 30 win season over 5 years keeps him in "best of the worst" category, which is why I left him off either list.

 

[sactowndog]

This falls apart when you consider Kings never won 30 games under Jerry's tenure and Geoff immediately shot this team in the arm with the selections of Brian Grant and Michael Smith in 1994 which immediately lead to back to back 39 win seasons where we were in the playoff hunt during the last week of the season and then made the playoffs the following year.

You could do a lot of what ifs under Petrie like what if instead of Peja he picked Steve Nash would he have picked Dirk or Pierce the following year, but he picked Peja who was a hell of a discovery and then picked Williams who he had the balls to trade for Bibby not long after.

I wanted to show that Jerry was not as bad as his record might indicate but at some point his failure to lead this team to one 30 win season over 5 years keeps him in "best of the worst" category, which is why I left him off either list.

Yeah the problem with Jerry is if he was not good you should be able to go back and say he should have done X,Y,Z different. Those with the benefit of hindsight are not there.

Jerry was more unlucky than poor. He might be the unluckiest man of all time.

1) He had Ricky Berry die,
2) Russell with a poor Pervis pick
3) Hurley’s car accident,
4) Simmons getting injured, and
5) poor lottery luck.

That alone would sink most GM’s. But on top of it his time was a period of extremely poor draft classes right before the Euro Revolution.

Give me 4 things you would have done different….. they are really hard to find!

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Yeah the problem with Jerry is if he was not good you should be able to go back and say he should have done X,Y,Z different. Those with the benefit of hindsight are not there.

Jerry was more unlucky than poor. He might be the unluckiest man of all time.

1) He had Ricky Berry die,
2) Russell with a poor Pervis pick
3) Hurley’s car accident,
4) Simmons getting injured, and
5) poor lottery luck.

That alone would sink most GM’s. But on top of it his time was a period of extremely poor draft classes right before the Euro Revolution.

Give me 4 things you would have done different….. they are really hard to find!

Ricky Berry happened under Russell in the summer of 1989. Bill was relieved of duty December 1989 and Berry happened while I was doing summer two-a-days at Jesuit, a couple weeks after I had met him on Sac State campus during his basketball camp.

Time has f'd up my brain and internal timeline but I remember that day pretty vividly.

 

[sactowndog]

Ricky Berry happened under Russell in the summer of 1989. Bill was relieved of duty December 1989 and Berry happened while I was doing summer two-a-days at Jesuit, a couple weeks after I had met him on Sac State campus during his basketball camp.

Time has f'd up my brain and internal timeline but I remember that day pretty vividly.

Right but he was a good player suddenly not there. That fact Petrie did well in the beginning was partially the assets Jerry left him.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Right but he was a good player suddenly not there. That fact Petrie did well in the beginning was partially the assets Jerry left him.

I love that I am like the only other person on this board to make an argument that Jerry didn't stink and in your contrarian ways you can't help but elevate it to him being the reason for Petrie's success.

But I really don't think you can underestimate all the additions Petrie made straight away though. He also picked up Lawrence Funderburke in the second round after Michael Smith. While just missing out on the playoffs in the final week of that season, he followed up the 95 offseason by picking up Marčiulionis and Tyus Edney played a key roll as a second round selection that year in our first playoff appearance since Sacramento's inaugural season.

Of course he missed from time to time, he was here for an eternity. Roughly 4x as long as any of his peers in the role during the time frame he was with us.

 

[sactowndog]

I love that I am like the only other person on this board to make an argument that Jerry didn't stink and in your contrarian ways you can't help but elevate it to him being the reason for Petrie's success.

But I really don't think you can underestimate all the additions Petrie made straight away though. He also picked up Lawrence Funderburke in the second round after Michael Smith. While just missing out on the playoffs in the final week of that season, he followed up the 95 offseason by picking up Marčiulionis and Tyus Edney played a key roll as a second round selection that year in our first playoff appearance since Sacramento's inaugural season.

Of course he missed from time to time, he was here for an eternity. Roughly 4x as long as any of his peers in the role during the time frame he was with us.

Yes he did but Jerry traded for that pick that became Funderburk.

Look I acknowledged the first half of Geoff’s tenure was an A but how would you grade the back half. And I’m still waiting for you to point out any move Jerry made that you would redo. Not because I’m being argumentative but because I was shocked when I went through it. I want to see if you agree.