Roy Hibbert

#91
People forget that Diop didn't do anything for his first 4 years in the NBA. Are we willing to spend a top 10 pick on that type of project? I doubt it. And Diop isn't exactly an All-Star. So, maybe Hibbert is another Diop. If so, I don't want him.
Hibbert's offensive game is much better than Diop. Diop still has a very weak offensive game. Hibbert can pass. Honestly, I wouldn't want either if I had a lottery pick but I'd rather have Hibbert in the long run.
 
#92
From what I saw of him in the NCAAs, I wasn't impressed. I saw a Ohio State guard, or a very small forward, make a layup on Hibbert and Hibbert was within about 3 feet from him. The offensive player just quick-jumped over him. Very unimpressive.
So you saw 1 player hit a quick layup and now you don't want him, but you want the Kings to use a lottery pick on Taj Gibson cause he played well vs UNC. Guess what, the reason Gtown won vs UNC was Hibbert. They were nowhere near the same team when he wasn't in the game, similarly with Gibson. Hibbert played well throughtout the tourney, Gibson had 1 stellar game against a decent UNC D and you want us to throw our future into him (he also played well in the tourney vs other teams, but he still played 34 minutes of the game)? Against a much better UCLA D twice this year he was effective shut down.

Ron Artest is a great defender, arguably a top 5 defender in the league and he gets owned from time to time, does it not make him good if 1 time he couldn't make a play? As a whole I think Hibbert was instrumental in G'town's run and actually kept them in the tOSU game.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#94
From what I saw of him in the NCAAs, I wasn't impressed. I saw a Ohio State guard, or a very small forward, make a layup on Hibbert and Hibbert was within about 3 feet from him. The offensive player just quick-jumped over him. Very unimpressive.
Jamaal Tinsley drove on Tim Duncan for the game winner last night. I wouldn't want him, either. :rolleyes:
 
#96
People forget that Diop didn't do anything for his first 4 years in the NBA. Are we willing to spend a top 10 pick on that type of project? I doubt it. And Diop isn't exactly an All-Star. So, maybe Hibbert is another Diop. If so, I don't want him.
Wow! Hibbert is ABSOLUTELY NO Diop when you talk about offense: after two years in the L if his team's committed to get him the ball in the post (look to Ilgauskas this year when his team only occasionly throw him the ball) Roy can easily average 16-18 points with great percentages plus 2-3 assists off of swings to perimeter with very few turnovers (he's THAT smart). There's absolutely no way all thes PFs masquerading as centers can stop him. Two years ago he was huge but awkward and very slow with very little skill. And look where he got by now.

The main problem is there's a big chance he doesn't declare this season.
 
#97
Wow! Hibbert is ABSOLUTELY NO Diop when you talk about offense: after two years in the L if his team's committed to get him the ball in the post (look to Ilgauskas this year when his team only occasionly throw him the ball) Roy can easily average 16-18 points with great percentages plus 2-3 assists off of swings to perimeter with very few turnovers (he's THAT smart). There's absolutely no way all thes PFs masquerading as centers can stop him. Two years ago he was huge but awkward and very slow with very little skill. And look where he got by now.

The main problem is there's a big chance he doesn't declare this season.
He's a lottery pick, I think he declares...the most intriguing part about him is he's young for a Junior. Only 20 years old.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#98
So you saw 1 player hit a quick layup and now you don't want him, but you want the Kings to use a lottery pick on Taj Gibson cause he played well vs UNC. Guess what, the reason Gtown won vs UNC was Hibbert. They were nowhere near the same team when he wasn't in the game, similarly with Gibson. Hibbert played well throughtout the tourney, Gibson had 1 stellar game against a decent UNC D and you want us to throw our future into him (he also played well in the tourney vs other teams, but he still played 34 minutes of the game)? Against a much better UCLA D twice this year he was effective shut down.

Ron Artest is a great defender, arguably a top 5 defender in the league and he gets owned from time to time, does it not make him good if 1 time he couldn't make a play? As a whole I think Hibbert was instrumental in G'town's run and actually kept them in the tOSU game.
It's not just one player. Maybe I should remember every single player that I've seen drive on him who is considerably shorter than Hebert and scored a layup, but unfortunately I don't have that kind of recall. I've seen Hibbert play a couple of times; both times I was unimpressed. Is he a guy who can shut down the paint? NO. Is he a guy who you want taking a big shot at the end of games? NO. Is he a great rebounder? NO. Is he a quick jumper? NO. Is he quick to the ball? NO. Will he be run off the floor by a Dallas, Phoenix, Golden State, et al? YES. I'll give you this: If an offensive player is within two feet of the basket and Hibbert is two feet away from him, Hibbert will probably bother or block the shot. But the only way he could be a very good player is to be very good offensively, which he isn't. He's going to have a lot of center's take him outside and then he's going to be a nothing because he's not good enough on the offensive end. He's a major league project. My pick would be Brewer for the Kings. He, I have seen more than once. He makes big shots when it counts, defends, runs, blocks shots. Does have a good basketball IQ. He will make an immediate impact. He won't be a project. I like Horford too, but we probably won't get a high enough draft pick to get him. And to tell you the truth, I doubt Brewer will be there past #6, so it's questionable we get him.
 
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#99
It's not just one player. Maybe I should remember every single player that I've seen drive on him who is considerably shorter than Hebert and scored a layup, but unfortunately I don't have that kind of recall. I've seen Hibbert play a couple of times; both times I was unimpressed. Is he a guy who can shut down the paint? NO. Is he a guy who you want taking a big shot at the end of games? NO. Is he a great rebounder? NO. Is he a quick jumper? NO. Is he quick to the ball? NO. Will he be run off the floor by a Dallas, Phoenix, Golden State, et al? YES. I'll give you this: If an offensive player is within two feet of the basket and Hibbert is two feet away from him, Hibbert will probably bother or block the shot. But the only way he could be a very good player is to be very good offensively, which he isn't. He's going to have a lot of center's take him outside and then he's going to be a nothing because he's not good enough on the offensive end. He's a major league project. My pick would be Brewer for the Kings. He, I have seen more than once. He makes big shots when it counts, defends, runs, blocks shots. Does have a good basketball IQ. He will make an immediate impact. He won't be a project. I like Horford too, but we probably won't get a high enough draft pick to get him. And to tell you the truth, I doubt Brewer will be there past #6, so it's questionable we get him.
He'll shut down the paint more than we have in our current situation. We just need the threat of someone guarding the paint. He averaged 2.4 BPG in 26 MPG for a very slow running team. 6.9 RPG isn't great but again you have to remember they restricted the number possessions they have had by running slow. He has been a work in progress but you act like adding Brewer or anyone in this draft other than Oden or Durant is going to be a quick turn around project. I think we have 2 or 3 seasons of building before we can compete again fully. The only true, young player I think we have to build around is Martin. There's no telling how long are other quality player in Artest will be around. The rest of our team is pretty much a joke. In the long run the team is going to need someone in the paint. I don't care when we get him but we need someone to do that or this team will NEVER compete for a title. You cannot win titles in the NBA without good interior D, it's just a proven fact.
 
It's not just one player. Maybe I should remember every single player that I've seen drive on him who is considerably shorter than Hebert and scored a layup, but unfortunately I don't have that kind of recall. I've seen Hibbert play a couple of times; both times I was unimpressed. Is he a guy who can shut down the paint? NO. Is he a guy who you want taking a big shot at the end of games? NO. Is he a great rebounder? NO. Is he a quick jumper? NO. Is he quick to the ball? NO. Will he be run off the floor by a Dallas, Phoenix, Golden State, et al? YES. I'll give you this: If an offensive player is within two feet of the basket and Hibbert is two feet away from him, Hibbert will probably bother or block the shot. But the only way he could be a very good player is to be very good offensively, which he isn't. He's going to have a lot of center's take him outside and then he's going to be a nothing because he's not good enough on the offensive end. He's a major league project. My pick would be Brewer for the Kings. He, I have seen more than once. He makes big shots when it counts, defends, runs, blocks shots. Does have a good basketball IQ. He will make an immediate impact. He won't be a project. I like Horford too, but we probably won't get a high enough draft pick to get him. And to tell you the truth, I doubt Brewer will be there past #6, so it's questionable we get him.
Wow, lots of haterade going around here.

Can he shut down the post? Yes. He didn't win DPOY for nothing. Regardless of what YOU saw, Hibbert is a monster in the post and does an excellent job of playing positional defense to bother the shot even if he doesn't get a block.

"Hibbert was a game-changing force once again, providing not only the shot blocking presence you would expect from a player of his size, but also doing an excellent job of manning up on Oden. Hibbert didn't overextend himself in attempting to block his shots, but rather played solid positional defense and limited the easy looks of his formidable opponent. He did do a good job as a weak-side shot-blocker, swatting one Oden dunk attempt and altering numerous other Buckeye attempts in the lane."

"If this game showed us anything, it’s how far along Hibbert’s coordination and instincts have come since we first started seriously evaluating him as an NBA draft prospect. His reaction time has become superb these days—for a 7-2 player at least—and that came out first and foremost in the defense he played against North Carolina. On numerous occasions he had less than a split-second to react to a surprising offensive rebound that took a strange bounce off the rim or a drop-off from Ty Lawson right into the hands of one of his post players. Hibbert didn’t hesitate for a second, showing terrific hands snatching up loose balls and sticking his hands in all the right places to come up with a career high 6 blocks. When he grabbed an offensive rebound, he didn’t need any time to gather himself, going straight back to finish strong the way you’d expect a big man his size to."

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=585

Not to mention you are underrating his post skills. This guy is one of the furthest things from a project in college Bball today. He isn't Hasheem Thabeet. This guy already has a pretty nice half-hook, good footwork, and knows how to get great postition (Even more so than the more touted Al Horford, who struggled against Oden while Hibbert didn't seem to be bothered much by him)
 
Diop was a project simply because he came right out of high school. At least Hibbert has played in the Big East for the last 3 years and has actually improved each year. Alot less of a project than Diop was who, at only 25, is in his 6th NBA season.
 
It's not just one player. Maybe I should remember every single player that I've seen drive on him who is considerably shorter than Hebert and scored a layup, but unfortunately I don't have that kind of recall. I've seen Hibbert play a couple of times; both times I was unimpressed. Is he a guy who can shut down the paint? NO. Is he a guy who you want taking a big shot at the end of games? NO. Is he a great rebounder? NO. Is he a quick jumper? NO. Is he quick to the ball? NO. Will he be run off the floor by a Dallas, Phoenix, Golden State, et al? YES. I'll give you this: If an offensive player is within two feet of the basket and Hibbert is two feet away from him, Hibbert will probably bother or block the shot. But the only way he could be a very good player is to be very good offensively, which he isn't. He's going to have a lot of center's take him outside and then he's going to be a nothing because he's not good enough on the offensive end. He's a major league project. My pick would be Brewer for the Kings. He, I have seen more than once. He makes big shots when it counts, defends, runs, blocks shots. Does have a good basketball IQ. He will make an immediate impact. He won't be a project. I like Horford too, but we probably won't get a high enough draft pick to get him. And to tell you the truth, I doubt Brewer will be there past #6, so it's questionable we get him.

Kingster, you just don't know what you're talking about. You say you saw him once or twice? That is no way to evaluate a player.

He's an exceptional post defender. A very good shot blocker. He has a more polished offensive post game than Oden. You should watch a player more before you write him off. As other said, watch the Ohio State Final Four games again. Hibbert more than holds his own on both ends of the court against Oden. Noah and Horford, on the other hand, are completely outclassed.
 
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Kingster, you just don't know what you're talking about. You say you saw him once or twice? That is no way to evaluate a player.

He's an exceptional post defender. A very good shot blocker. He has a more polished offensive post game than Oden. You should watch a player more before you write him off. As other said, watch the Ohio State Final Four games again. Hibbert more than holds his own on both ends of the court against Oden. Noah and Horford, on the other hand, are completely outclassed.
This is somewhat tangential to the main post, but Horford did fine against Oden, and anyway I think it's kind of pointless to point to his efforts again Oden's compared to Hibbert's, because he's a power forward and for the most part won't be matched up against centers in the NBA.

So anyway, relative to his size, I don't think Hibbert showed that much more against Oden than Horford. I think Hibbert has potential, but I wouldn't be using Horford to buttress that point. I'd much much rather have Horford.
 
This is somewhat tangential to the main post, but Horford did fine against Oden, and anyway I think it's kind of pointless to point to his efforts again Oden's compared to Hibbert's, because he's a power forward and for the most part won't be matched up against centers in the NBA.

So anyway, relative to his size, I don't think Hibbert showed that much more against Oden than Horford. I think Hibbert has potential, but I wouldn't be using Horford to buttress that point. I'd much much rather have Horford.
Isn't kind of a pisser that Phoenix is going to get one of these guys???
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Kingster, you just don't know what you're talking about. You say you saw him once or twice? That is no way to evaluate a player.
Maybe so. I can't be right all the time, can I?;) I did say I saw Lopez as a top 10 or a top 5 if he came out, and lo and behold, I see a Bee article inferring he would have been a top 10 pick. I like Lopez a lot better than Hibbert, and I only saw Lopez twice also.

He's an exceptional post defender. A very good shot blocker. He has a more polished offensive post game than Oden. You should watch a player more before you write him off. As other said, watch the Ohio State Final Four games again. Hibbert more than holds his own on both ends of the court against Oden. Noah and Horford, on the other hand, are completely outclassed.
I don't think he's going to be an exceptional post defender because I don't think he has the lateral quickness to be an exceptional defender. In college I can see Hibbert wreaking havoc because they just can't shoot nearly as well in college than the NBA, and therefore the offenses are not spread nearly as much. The three point line has spaced the floor and for me that means I put more of premium on mobility, less on length for a big man. (Again, the exception to that rule is if you have a big guy that is just unstoppable on the offensive end). I don't see Hibbert being exceptional in that kind of game. He has neither the lateral quickness or the fluidity of Lopez. Maybe in the old days when the paint was packed, he would have a bigger impact, but this is a different game.

He might have a more polished offensive game than Oden, I'll give you that. And he matches up against Oden, I'll give you that. Regardless, I don't see an offense being built around him in the NBA, and with his limitations in rebounding and defense I think there will be better players we can get in the top 10. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll be a bust, but I do think/hope that there will be better players we can draft than him.

Horford is one of them. Horford is a significantly better rebounder, he can come from the weak side to block a shot, does have a pretty nice outside shot from what I've seen. I like Horford. But like I said, I'm not wed to the idea of drafting by position. Whoever Petrie thinks is the best player is available, I hope he drafts him. He can be 6' or 7', I don't care.
 
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I'd take Hibbert if Hawes is off the board and say no one like collison or arthur declares but he's going to slow your offense down and he doesn't have great upside. I'd prefer Hawes because he'll be able fit in an uptempo offense as well as a half court offense and I think that versatility is the name of the game today. While Hawes won't be the potential 2-way center that Hibbert is, I think he'll be a 14-16 ppg, he'll pass well, and he should be a good rebounder as long as he puts back on the weight that he lost (which he lost because of an illness). We'll get killed with Hibbert going up against dallas and phoenix. That's why I hope we're not in a position where it's Hibbert or a pg.
 
I don't think he's going to be an exceptional post defender because I don't think he has the lateral quickness to be an exceptional defender. In college I can see Hibbert wreaking havoc because they just can't shoot nearly as well in college than the NBA, and therefore the offenses are not spread nearly as much. The three point line has spaced the floor and for me that means I put more of premium on mobility, less on length for a big man. (Again, the exception to that rule is if you have a big guy that is just unstoppable on the offensive end). I don't see Hibbert being exceptional in that kind of game. He has neither the lateral quickness or the fluidity of Lopez. Maybe in the old days when the paint was packed, he would have a bigger impact, but this is a different game.
You're confusing Post Defender with Help Defender. As a Post Defender, Hibbert's the best bet you have I think in the entire draft. As a Help Defender, you're underrating his reaction reflexes. He's gotten significantly better over the years. Exactly which games did you choose to watch anyways? Obviously not the latest ones.

People are becoming starry-eyed with the advent of the run and gun teams like the Suns/Raptors/Warriors, but there will always be a premium on the post. Lopez isn't a very good defender, nor does he have the understanding of the game Hibbert has. He's more mobile; so what? Unless you play at great speeds, it isn't going to matter.

He might have a more polished offensive game than Oden, I'll give you that. And he matches up against Oden, I'll give you that. Regardless, I don't see an offense being built around him in the NBA, and with his limitations in rebounding and defense I think there will be better players we can get in the top 10. Don't get me wrong, I don't think he'll be a bust, but I do think/hope that there will be better players we can draft than him.
Limitations in rebounding? :rolleyes: Whatever you say. Just for the record, no offense would be built around anyone short of a superstar. Hibbert's upside may not blow anyone away, but he's going to be a quality player in the NBA.

Horford is one of them. Horford is a significantly better rebounder, he can come from the weak side to block a shot, does have a pretty nice outside shot from what I've seen. I like Horford. But like I said, I'm not wed to the idea of drafting by position. Whoever Petrie thinks is the best player is available, I hope he drafts him. He can be 6' or 7', I don't care.

Horford's a good prospect, but he's a PF. And it was pretty evident in the finals game that he's bothered by bigger players in the post. He shot 6/15 from the field, which is pretty bad for a post player. In the end, he got his numbers, but mostly off of broken plays and jumpers when he wasn't playing in the post.
 
All that I have seen of Hibbert I can honestly say I do not want the guy (still)... I would rather the team followed the league and went for offense over defense. We don't have a defensive team, and Hibbert would not solve anything for us defensively. The team would suck but suck with a slow center who doesn't have any offense.
 
All that I have seen of Hibbert I can honestly say I do not want the guy (still)... I would rather the team followed the league and went for offense over defense. We don't have a defensive team, and Hibbert would not solve anything for us defensively. The team would suck but suck with a slow center who doesn't have any offense.
Have you watched Hibbert? Have you seen the Kings. D beats O most of the time, hasn't that been evident. We have nobody to guard the paint right now, I mean noone. Yet you guys want to go small which makes no sense. We can only draft wing players for so long. We haven't won with small players.

When has Hibbert not had offense? His freshman year maybe. Honestly, I'd rather have Oden or Durant any day of the week. I'd prefer Horford or Wright to Hibbert, but I can't see us continue going with smaller players. We haven't drafted a big player in the first round in god knows how long and it's definitely showing on this team. I guess we can continue to forget about D, that's really a great way to go.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
You're confusing Post Defender with Help Defender. As a Post Defender, Hibbert's the best bet you have I think in the entire draft. As a Help Defender, you're underrating his reaction reflexes. He's gotten significantly better over the years. Exactly which games did you choose to watch anyways? Obviously not the latest ones.

People are becoming starry-eyed with the advent of the run and gun teams like the Suns/Raptors/Warriors, but there will always be a premium on the post. Lopez isn't a very good defender, nor does he have the understanding of the game Hibbert has. He's more mobile; so what? Unless you play at great speeds, it isn't going to matter.



Limitations in rebounding? :rolleyes: Whatever you say. Just for the record, no offense would be built around anyone short of a superstar. Hibbert's upside may not blow anyone away, but he's going to be a quality player in the NBA.

Horford is one of them. Horford is a significantly better rebounder, he can come from the weak side to block a shot, does have a pretty nice outside shot from what I've seen. I like Horford. But like I said, I'm not wed to the idea of drafting by position. Whoever Petrie thinks is the best player is available, I hope he drafts him. He can be 6' or 7', I don't care.

Horford's a good prospect, but he's a PF. And it was pretty evident in the finals game that he's bothered by bigger players in the post. He shot 6/15 from the field, which is pretty bad for a post player. In the end, he got his numbers, but mostly off of broken plays and jumpers when he wasn't playing in the post.
I watched Hibbert the last 2 games he was in. He's not a great rebounder.

I didn't say Horford was a center. He is a great rebounder.

Horford is a better player than Hibbert. Therefore, I'd take him over Hibbert.

I don't agree on Lopez. I think he's a very good post defender, better than Hibbert, because he can move better than Hibbert. If I want a lampost at the center position I'd go out and get one - they must be pretty cheap to rent. I think Lopez has more upside than Hibbert - he's fluid in his offensive moves, he's getting better in his range, he *can* come from the weak side.

The bottom line for me is that Hibbert is a riskier pick than Brewer and Horford. Brewer is an All-Star waiting to happen. He shot 53% on 3 pointers in the last two years in the NCAAs. Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC. Bigtime pressure player. I think Horford is also going to be very solid, though I'm not as sure of his All-Star potential. He'd have to extend his range on his jump shot from 15 feet out a little further, but that's definitely doable.

I'm going to be surprised if Petrie picks Hibbert.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
You know, people remain fascinated with smallball because gee, its "pretty". Except pretty counts in swimsuit competitions but has never won jack in the NBA (or almost any professional contact sport -- those pansy Colts winning the Superbowl notwithstanding ;) ). The Lakers were the last "pretty" team to win titles back in the 80's, and they were HUGE. Started 4 guys 6'9" and over, a HOF center etc.

Of all the top teams right now, basically almost all of them have big slow guys roaming the middle. Whether it be Dampier/Diop, Shaq, Big Z, Webb, Duncan, Yao, Mehmet, whoever, the serious teams aren't running around without bigs looking cute and pretty and worried only about their scoring. They, just as it has ALWAYS been in the NBA for the 25+ years I've been watching, are packing seriuous beef and muscle inside, banging, gurnting, scrapping, getting ugly when they have to, slowing it down to pound the ball into the post when they can, and trying to win the physical war inside, not play dancing with the beleeping stars.

I have not seen enoguh of Hibbert to be sure of where he fits. But he's got the size and defensive abilities to maybe play in those wars. And that is, and has always been, absolutely critical in the NBA.
 
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You're confusing Post Defender with Help Defender. As a Post Defender, Hibbert's the best bet you have I think in the entire draft. As a Help Defender, you're underrating his reaction reflexes. He's gotten significantly better over the years. Exactly which games did you choose to watch anyways? Obviously not the latest ones.

People are becoming starry-eyed with the advent of the run and gun teams like the Suns/Raptors/Warriors, but there will always be a premium on the post. Lopez isn't a very good defender, nor does he have the understanding of the game Hibbert has. He's more mobile; so what? Unless you play at great speeds, it isn't going to matter.



Limitations in rebounding? :rolleyes: Whatever you say. Just for the record, no offense would be built around anyone short of a superstar. Hibbert's upside may not blow anyone away, but he's going to be a quality player in the NBA.



I watched Hibbert the last 2 games he was in. He's not a great rebounder.

I didn't say Horford was a center. He is a great rebounder.

Horford is a better player than Hibbert. Therefore, I'd take him over Hibbert.

I don't agree on Lopez. I think he's a very good post defender, better than Hibbert, because he can move better than Hibbert. If I want a lampost at the center position I'd go out and get one - they must be pretty cheap to rent. I think Lopez has more upside than Hibbert - he's fluid in his offensive moves, he's getting better in his range, he *can* come from the weak side.

The bottom line for me is that Hibbert is a riskier pick than Brewer and Horford. Brewer is an All-Star waiting to happen. He shot 53% on 3 pointers in the last two years in the NCAAs. Defensive Player of the Year in the SEC. Bigtime pressure player. I think Horford is also going to be very solid, though I'm not as sure of his All-Star potential. He'd have to extend his range on his jump shot from 15 feet out a little further, but that's definitely doable.

I'm going to be surprised if Petrie picks Hibbert.
Brewer and Horford are also projected higher than Hibbert. Your comparing him with two potential top 5 picks? I don't think that's fair. Hibbert is a potential player that we can get. As Brick said, we need size. We need a f'in goaltender. We haven't had one pretty much for a while. You need someone in the NBA to guard the paint or your going to get run over. We right now are getting run over. If you watched anything Dallas did last night W/O dirk, is they had a guy guarding the paint in Dampier, that's all he did. That's what the Kings need. Between an effective Bibby, Martin, Miller, Shareef, etc. we have a bunch of good offensive players. We have Ron Ron being a good wing defender but he needs someone inside protecing the paint or will never have a good team. Honestly, as I said earlier, I'd rather have Oden any time of the day over Hibbert BUT, I'd rather have Hibbert then another swing player. We need big guys on our team. Shareef, Kenny, Miller aren't big enough. Hasn't that become rediculously obvious.
 
Dallas is a good example of having role player centers whose job is to challenge penetration into the paint, rebound and provide post defense. Post offense is a bonus. If you have one of these guys, then you can get the swing guys later.
 
You know, people remain fascinated with smallball because gee, its "pretty". Except pretty counts in swimsuit competitions but has never won jack in the NBA (or almost any professional contact sport -- those pansy Colts winning the Superbowl notwithstanding ;) ). The Lakers were the last "pretty" team to win titles back in the 80's, and they were HUGE. Started 4 guys 6'9" and over, a HOF center etc.

Of all the top teams right now, basically almost all of them have big slow guys roaming the middle. Whether it be Dampier/Diop, Shaq, Big Z, Webb, Duncan, Yao, Mehmet, whoever, the serious teams aren't running around without bigs looking cute and pretty and worried only about their scoring. They, just as it has ALWAYS been in the NBA for the 25+ years I've been watching, are packing seriuous beef and muscle inside, banging, gurnting, scrapping, getting ugly when they have to, slowing it down to pound the ball into the post when they can, and trying to win the physical war inside, not play dancing with the beleeping stars.

I have not seen enoguh of Hibbert to be sure of where he fits. But he's got the size and defensive abilities to maybe play in those wars. And that is, and has always been, absolutely critical in the NBA.

Pretty much agree with this...I think Hibbert would be a fine pick in the 5-10 range IMO. However if we were to get a top 3 pick you HAVE to go Oden/Durant/Wright or Horford.

Hibbert is interesting. He reminds me of a smarter/unADHD Chris Kaman. He's actually a better athlete than at first glance. He runs awkward, like on his heels down the court. But once he's in the halfcourt set, he does fine. His stamina seems low to me, personally. I really like his ability to pass and understand the game. I think he could learn a lot from Brad Miller and actually has a defensive presence about him. If we platooned hibbert/miller at C next year, I'd be okay with that. His offense is actually pretty decent for a 20 year old. However, this team REALLY needs an Oden, but Hibbert would be helpful as well. He may not be my first choice, but he may be my first choice of who is actually available.

If we were to go with Hibbert, then i think keeping Artest is a must and maybe even Miller(since we probably can't even deal him anyways).
Hibbert makes us a better halfcourt team. Bibby/Miller/Roy/Ron SCREAMS MISMATCHES in the halfcourt sets. Martin is fine there, but IMO would blossom in the full court even more. He may be the most tradeable piece after that. Maybe Martin/Miller for Gasol???

I think moving KT or Shareef for a more athletic(even if it's lesser) player would be in order.


5) Hibbert
4) Brad
3) Artest
2) Martin
1) Bibby

My top choice after the top 3 picks is Darrell Arthur...IMO he'd fit with an uptempo team with Martin.
 
Hibbert's current NBA Draft.net comparison:

NBA Comparison: Joel Przybilla
Strengths: Center with great size and strength ... Has soft hands, excellent touch on his shot ... Strong rebounder ... Very good free throw shooter, (around 80%) which is especially important for a center ... Post moves are developing well ... Smart player, has a good understanding of his role and what to do on the court ... Strong character guy ... Hard worker, has shown great improvement in his skill level, body and conditioning in his time at Georgetown ... Has transformed himself into a legitimate prospect ... More athletic than he appears ... His quickness in decision making has improved ... Body strength and agility seems to still be developing, his upside is very intriguing considering how much he improved in the past year ... Good vision and passing ability ... Calm demeanor, never gets out of control or loses his cool ... Has the size to block shots inside without jumping ...

Weaknesses: Limited athletically: Lacks quickness, speed in the open floor, and explosiveness ... Has trouble against big and athletic centers, must work on ball fakes and becoming less predictable offensively ... Runs very stiff, slow transitioning from half to full court ... Has decent shot blocking skills due to his size, but lacks great quickness and reflexes vertically ...


I think this team could definitely use a healthy Joel Pryzbilla type. Another good thing about him is he is an 80% free throw shooter.
 
Pretty much agree with this...I think Hibbert would be a fine pick in the 5-10 range IMO. However if we were to get a top 3 pick you HAVE to go Oden/Durant/Wright or Horford.

Hibbert is interesting. He reminds me of a smarter/unADHD Chris Kaman. He's actually a better athlete than at first glance. He runs awkward, like on his heels down the court. But once he's in the halfcourt set, he does fine. His stamina seems low to me, personally. I really like his ability to pass and understand the game. I think he could learn a lot from Brad Miller and actually has a defensive presence about him. If we platooned hibbert/miller at C next year, I'd be okay with that. His offense is actually pretty decent for a 20 year old. However, this team REALLY needs an Oden, but Hibbert would be helpful as well. He may not be my first choice, but he may be my first choice of who is actually available.

If we were to go with Hibbert, then i think keeping Artest is a must and maybe even Miller(since we probably can't even deal him anyways).
Hibbert makes us a better halfcourt team. Bibby/Miller/Roy/Ron SCREAMS MISMATCHES in the halfcourt sets. Martin is fine there, but IMO would blossom in the full court even more. He may be the most tradeable piece after that. Maybe Martin/Miller for Gasol???

I think moving KT or Shareef for a more athletic(even if it's lesser) player would be in order.


5) Hibbert
4) Brad
3) Artest
2) Martin
1) Bibby

My top choice after the top 3 picks is Darrell Arthur...IMO he'd fit with an uptempo team with Martin.

lol Please stop suggesting this at every board you go to.

Agree about Arthur though.
 
You know, people remain fascinated with smallball because gee, its "pretty". Except pretty counts in swimsuit competitions but has never won jack in the NBA (or almost any professional contact sport -- those pansy Colts winning the Superbowl notwithstanding ;) ). The Lakers were the last "pretty" team to win titles back in the 80's, and they were HUGE. Started 4 guys 6'9" and over, a HOF center etc.

Of all the top teams right now, basically almost all of them have big slow guys roaming the middle. Whether it be Dampier/Diop, Shaq, Big Z, Webb, Duncan, Yao, Mehmet, whoever, the serious teams aren't running around without bigs looking cute and pretty and worried only about their scoring. They, just as it has ALWAYS been in the NBA for the 25+ years I've been watching, are packing seriuous beef and muscle inside, banging, gurnting, scrapping, getting ugly when they have to, slowing it down to pound the ball into the post when they can, and trying to win the physical war inside, not play dancing with the beleeping stars.

I have not seen enoguh of Hibbert to be sure of where he fits. But he's got the size and defensive abilities to maybe play in those wars. And that is, and has always been, absolutely critical in the NBA.
I am not saying that I disagree with you on your post, however, I will give you another side to the topic of giant, beefy bigs being critical to a championship team.

Yes, championship teams need good play in the paint. However, they also need great guard play. Championships are won by 'complete' teams. It may be true that no team has ever won the title with no big guys (but then again, all NBA teams have someone who is big). However, IMHO teams have won the title stemming from primarily their great guard play. Example, the most recent title won by the Pistons. Hamilton and Billups were/are the foundation of that team (IMHO). Another example, the Bad Boys back to back titles. Isiah and Dumars were the backbone of that team (again IMHO). Yes, Lambeer and Rodman were good - but this was not a team anchored by a giant, beefy guy clogging the middle and neither was the most recent Pistons title.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
I am not saying that I disagree with you on your post, however, I will give you another side to the topic of giant, beefy bigs being critical to a championship team.

Yes, championship teams need good play in the paint. However, they also need great guard play. Championships are won by 'complete' teams. It may be true that no team has ever won the title with no big guys (but then again, all NBA teams have someone who is big). However, IMHO teams have won the title stemming from primarily their great guard play. Example, the most recent title won by the Pistons. Hamilton and Billups were/are the foundation of that team (IMHO). Another example, the Bad Boys back to back titles. Isiah and Dumars were the backbone of that team (again IMHO). Yes, Lambeer and Rodman were good - but this was not a team anchored by a giant, beefy guy clogging the middle and neither was the most recent Pistons title.
Er...guy named Ben Wallace? Four time DPOY? And picking up Sheed midseason was absolutely the move that propelled an otherwise good but going nowhere 50 win squad to the next level that season. Getting that second big defensive stopper put them over the top.

And the Bad Boys didn't get the nickname because of their guard play. They got the nickname because their big, beefy, slighty deranged frontline would smash you if you dared come into the paint. Their guards were their best players at that point (Laimbeer was on the way down, Rodman still on the way up), but they absolutely controlled the middle and smashed mouths as well as any team ever has.

You can win a title without a HOF center, but its never been proven you can win one without large and scary beasts roaming about down low for you. Even Jordan ( the better argument) always had great PFs to clean up the garbage inside, and then platoons of big 7 footers to band around with the other bigs.
 
Er...guy named Ben Wallace? Four time DPOY? And picking up Sheed midseason was absolutely the move that propelled an otherwise good but going nowhere 50 win squad to the next level that season. Getting that second big defensive stopper put them over the top.

And the Bad Boys didn't get the nickname because of their guard play. They got the nickname because their big, beefy, slighty deranged frontline would smash you if you dared come into the paint. Their guards were their best players at that point (Laimbeer was on the way down, Rodman still on the way up), but they absolutely controlled the middle and smashed mouths as well as any team ever has.

You can win a title without a HOF center, but its never been proven you can win one without large and scary beasts roaming about down low for you. Even Jordan ( the better argument) always had great PFs to clean up the garbage inside, and then platoons of big 7 footers to band around with the other bigs.
You need somebody to guard the paint to win a title. There hasn't been 1 team in my lifetime that hasn't had someone in the paint with the ability to guard it.

Just look at the title winners the last 20 years and their big men.

Shaq
Duncan
Wallace
Rodman
Grant
Hakeem
Kareem
Laimbeer and company

The fact is you don't need a HOF type of center to win titles, you need someone to guard the paint to win titles.