Roster: Who will we cut before season

mazzystar

mazzystar

Bench
#31
#31
Things aren't looking so good for justin williams.

http://www.nba.com/kings/news/2006_TC_Day_2_Coach.html

Is Justin Williams a real long-shot?:
Coach: “Yes. We talked to the team today and based on contracts he is a guy that the odds are stacked against him based on guaranteed contracts. All he can do is play as hard as he can play and that’s what he has done. We’ll keep evaluating him until we go to Dallas.”

Louis
How many guys do you think you will play?:
Coach: “I think it depends on how all of this evolves. You have a guy like Louis who might not make the team, but yet if he makes the team then is he on your active roster? If he is on your active roster, he’d probably play four minutes a half and get you two or three rebounds and maybe change the complexion of the game here or there. It is really hard to say what our rotation is right now. Just remember I’ve said it before to some of you guys, the first training camp I was with Chuck Daly he said it takes 50 games to know your team. So if he was a hall of fame guy and this was the last year he coached basketball he was saying that phrase. He said it about 400 times. When we were in staff meetings and we would ask “Who are we going to play,” he would say “Hey. It takes 50 games to know your team.” I certainly don’t know our team after a week.”

Hope louis can at least make the team.
 
T

Troy

Starter
#32
#32
BawLa said:
The NBDL sucks. That is what it is supposed to be for. Basketball needs to take a lesson from Baseball and Hockey with respect to their junior development.
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I agree, other sports have a junior team where players can make it up to the real deal if they are good and then make the Senior roster. In the meantime they get playing time and continue to develop. It is really really hard for a big guy to come in from College and be a difference maker, that takes time. Why cannot we have 2-3M or even less to sponsor a junior team that we have rights to and develop, then we play other teams junior team on the night or day whatever following the Senior game while we are still in town or they are? The junior team doesn't need to play every game the senior team does maybe 1/2 the # of games or even a 1/4 as many, just some time to interact with other teams; junior team.

Many of these junior guys would play for very cheap in semi-pro terms and would just be a few years anyways in the workforce after college so they would have to work their way up the corporate ladder anyways and wouldn't expect to be making the big bucks. I'd like to see a 3rd and 4th round and also undrafted guys like a Amundson, Williams, Price, etc have a chance to grow with the organization, the short summer league and training camp is not enough. Why cannot we invest in youth and give them a 1 or 2 year deal before throwing them away as either making the senior roster or dropping out for the new crop of newbies?

All other sports have a junior system, why cannot basketball? Why even have admirations of making it to the NBA if it is such a long shot of even getting look and very remote chance of sticking? At least in football and other sports you have so many positions and can be stashed away for a chance later and grow with the organization.

While Soccer isn't held in high regard in this country, I really like the Junior team concept going and how young kids are making the Senior roster in a short turn around. We really need to have enough room to have a Junior team, not crazy amount of postions, maybe just like 8 or so to let the starters get good minutes and allow enough overlap for people if they get hurt etc. I just see the jump from being a nobody to a Pro is way too hard, there needs to be some middle ground to grow. Heck we might have missed KMart, but due to Bonzi getting hurt last year he had his chance to shine, the young guys need more chances to play other than when people ahead of them get hurt.
 
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Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#33
#33
That kind of sucks really about Louis and Justin.

Now I am under no illusions about their likely high end potential as undrafted guys, but damnit, loading up on more veteran scrubs had BETTER result in s omething for us this year, or that's just a waste.

we need rebounders, scrappers, shotblockers. Adumndson and Williams are rebounders, scrappers, shotblockers. Young too. To not even get a real chance to look at them for Marty McScrub and his pal Flop is kind of annoying.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#34
#34
Bricklayer said:
That kind of sucks really about Louis and Justin.

Now I am under no illusions about their likely high end potential as undrafted guys, but damnit, loading up on more veteran scrubs had BETTER result in s omething for us this year, or that's just a waste.

we need rebounders, scrappers, shotblockers. Adumndson and Williams are rebounders, scrappers, shotblockers. Young too. To not even get a real chance to look at them for Marty McScrub and his pal Flop is kind of annoying.
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Amen! I'm not really so hot on Petrie this offseason, but the Mo signing really bugged me. Williams OR Amundson can probably bring just as much as someone waived by the knicks if not more.

And all those people who went to fandamonium seemed to agree that it was Artest, K-Mart, and Williams who impressed the most.
 
BigSong

BigSong

Bench
#35
#35
http://www.nba.com/kings/news/2006_TC_Day_2_Coach.html
Coach: “The biggest strength is the ability to shoot and also the way that they read each other offensively. I think the challenge is always defensively. I think that Ron, last year started to help with that process because one guy can rub off on your identity, defensively and mentally. We want to continue to build on our defense. That’s a challenge. Probably the biggest challenge is rebounding the ball. Last night in the scrimmage our two rookies led the scrimmage in rebounding, so we need to continue to really focus on-as a group-rebounding the ball.”
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that really stood out for me. hopefully this accounts for something as far as keeping amundson or williams.
 
Packt

Packt

Starter
#36
#36
From the beginning it always seemed like the team or those in the know were higher on Louis that on Justin. If one of them makes it, it will most likely be Louis.

For someone like me, who hasn't watched either play and can only go on scouting reports, I'd rather keep the shotblocker. However neither will have any impact this year.
 
BawLa

BawLa

Starter
#37
#37
Troy said:
While Soccer isn't held in high regard in this country, I really like the Junior team concept going and how young kids are making the Senior roster in a short turn around. We really need to have enough room to have a Junior team, not crazy amount of postions, maybe just like 8 or so to let the starters get good minutes and allow enough overlap for people if they get hurt etc. I just see the jump from being a nobody to a Pro is way too hard, there needs to be some middle ground to grow. Heck we might have missed KMart, but due to Bonzi getting hurt last year he had his chance to shine, the young guys need more chances to play other than when people ahead of them get hurt.
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Agreed.

The nbdl isn't the worst idea, it's just the structuring that is terrible. Probably because the big market teams have a vice on the nbdl. If you think about it, the development league favors the smaller market teams.

I think the best example to follow is from Baseball. A guy gets injured, you put him on the disabled list (15/30/60 day), and then you can bring up a player from your nbdl affiliate. But you own the player's contract and can move it to wherever team you want. If a guy proves his worth, you can just "designate for assignment" the player you want to replace. And for the amount of money that their contracts are worth, you won't sweat over dumping a prospect for another one. Later in the season your roster allotment increases and you can bring up a couple guys for the playoff push/playoffs. It seems as though the Tax Threshold is the real problem.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the nbdl develop more in the future. They can add a few more rounds to the draft and then we won't lose out on potential. I think for now there just aren't enough decent players out there to fill up the dev. league. But we have recently entered the era of high school players a la Mr. James, so you never know.
 
Ryle

Ryle

Starter
#38
#38
None of us have seen Amundson or Williams play a single minute in the NBA. Maybe they were good in college but there are plenty of players who were GREAT in college but couldn't cut it in the NBA. I like what they bring but I also feel the coaching staff will make the right decisions.
 
KingsFan93

KingsFan93

G-League
#40
#40
Jeter, Williams and Amundson.

Roster:

R.Artest/F.Garcia/C.Williamson
K.Thomas/S.Abdurraheem/M.Taylor
B.Miller/L.Woods/V.Potapenko
M.Bibby/J.Hart/R.Price
K.Martin/J.Salmons/Q.Douby
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#41
#41
Even if these young bigs made the team, how many minutes would they get?

4 a half Muss says, but say they play better then Mo or Woods, would he increase their PT? Or would he pull a Rick and let them rot on the bench despite their talents and what they could bring to the team?
 
R

rumpled

G-League
#42
#42
I think Amundson will end up staying somehow. I've never seen him play either, of course. :) But from all reports he's a sort of hustle dirtywork player and the kings need that, who doesn't. The main reason I think so is I've read a few things like this:

"I think Lou's great," Maloof said. "Not only do I think he'll make our team, I think he can play and help us. Our fans are going to love him because he plays so hard."

There...right there, see how he calls him "Lou"? If you read between the lines you can see that Lou is from UNLV and the maloofs have UNLV connections. George went there. They probably follow UNLV basketball and have known Lou for years. Plus its always good for marketing to have more ashton kuchner-looking white dudes around.

I'm not saying that's all there is to it of course, he still has to play. I just think the bosses like him and that doubles or triples his odds. Its Vegas baby!
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#43
#43
Of the two, I think Williams has shown more...at least so far.

You're quoting one of the Maloofs? Oh, please. ;) Those are the same guys who said they'd never trade Webber and they'd give a max deal to keep Peja. If you read further between the lines, you see a common thread. And it has nothing to do with UNLV.
 
SLAB

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#44
#44
It's going to be Amundson, Williams, and Jeter.

It should be Hart, Potopenko, and Jeter.

But we all know Hart and Potopenko's empty stats are worth much more to the team because they are veterans and they provide excellent leadership off the bench...

:rolleyes:
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#47
#47
OptimusRhyme said:
Is there a way we can Sign one of Williams or Amundson, and put the other one in the NBDL but still have his rights?
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Roster:

Guaranteed:
Miller
Bibby
Artest
Reef
Thomas
Martin
Salmons
Corliss
Potapenko
Garcia
Douby
Hart

So 12

Probably guaranteed:
Price
Taylor

so that's 14

Partially guaranteed:
Woods
Admundson

so that's 16

non-guaranteed:
Williams

And you can only keep 15, so if we keep all of the top 14 there, and Woods, we can't keep EITHER of the young guys. We would have to cut (or trade) at least two people in order to keep both young guys, even just in an NBDL role. Just too many bodies. And a lot of them sucky bodies to boot.

Does raise the interesting question -- if Pot and Hart just winked out of existence tommorow, would anybody miss them? ;)
 
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K

kingsfan101

Starter
#51
#51
Ryle said:
I like what they bring but I also feel the coaching staff will make the right decisions.
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It might not be the decision of the coaching staff. Given the upper limit of 15, unless some guys are traded (Petrie), or waived (Maloofs), there are just no roster spots for these guys.

Of course, if the coaching staff is able to convince Petrie and Maloofs that these guys bring much more than the guys who might be waived (Hart or Potato), they might agree. Doubt it though, since it shall likely push us over the LT. Also, expiring contracts might be helpful at the trading deadline, particularly if they are clubbed with some other big contract.

Finally, if Louis or Justin don't make it now, does not mean they are gone forever. Not sure how this works, but as I understand, These guys shall probably play in CBA (unless they get some offer from abroad), hoping for some opening in some NBA team. There might not be enough teams that have open roster spots by the time they are done with their camp invitees.While it shall obviously be risky, even if we lose them now, we might be able to pick them later, if we have roster spot.

Can someone confirm if the above is true, or are there any other loopholes?
 
Jkbiker

Jkbiker

Starter
#54
#54
kingsfan101 said:
It might not be the decision of the coaching staff. Given the upper limit of 15, unless some guys are traded (Petrie), or waived (Maloofs), there are just no roster spots for these guys.

Of course, if the coaching staff is able to convince Petrie and Maloofs that these guys bring much more than the guys who might be waived (Hart or Potato), they might agree. Doubt it though, since it shall likely push us over the LT. Also, expiring contracts might be helpful at the trading deadline, particularly if they are clubbed with some other big contract.

Finally, if Louis or Justin don't make it now, does not mean they are gone forever. Not sure how this works, but as I understand, These guys shall probably play in CBA (unless they get some offer from abroad), hoping for some opening in some NBA team. There might not be enough teams that have open roster spots by the time they are done with their camp invitees.While it shall obviously be risky, even if we lose them now, we might be able to pick them later, if we have roster spot.

Can someone confirm if the above is true, or are there any other loopholes?
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I dont think that Luxury tax is an issue right now, I believe we can eat Hart and Poty's contract, sign Amundson, Jwill and still beat Luxury tax. (at least last time I went through the numbers).

Short term thinking: If GP feels an impact player that wants a trade will come up on a team that is out of playoff picture and wants to clear cap space for next year, then Corliss, Hart,Poty and one starter might be combined in some form to get a true impact player that will help us in second half of season and playoffs.

Long-term thinking: If coaches feel Amundson/Jwill can develop into rotation player by next year, might be worth waiving a contract or two now.

Best compromise: my bet is waive Hart (smallest of 3 expiring) and keep best of the two rookies. Prob Admunson, let Jwill and Pooh go.
 
H

hammystyle

Starter
#56
#56
Bricklayer said:
Roster:

Guaranteed:
Miller
Bibby
Artest
Reef
Thomas
Martin
Salmons
Corliss
Potapenko
Garcia
Douby
Hart

So 12

Probably guaranteed:
Price
Taylor

so that's 14

Partially guaranteed:
Woods
Admundson

so that's 16

non-guaranteed:
Williams

And you can only keep 15, so if we keep all of the top 14 there, and Woods, we can't keep EITHER of the young guys. We would have to cut (or trade) at least two people in order to keep both young guys, even just in an NBDL role. Just too many bodies. And a lot of them sucky bodies to boot.

Does raise the interesting question -- if Pot and Hart just winked out of existence tommorow, would anybody miss them? ;)
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Honestly, if Corliss, Pot, and Hart are not going to play, why keep them on the team? Especially if you see Williams and Amundson having future value. If they waive them, there is a good chance they can negotiate some sort of buyout which wouldn't help the salary cap, but would cut costs and probably cover the additional cost of Williams and Amundson. It makes no sense to me that they'd give those guys a roster spot just because they have a guaranteed. salary. Williams and Amundson may be undrafted rookies, but I am still pretty sure that they could match or better the production of Pot and Corliss.

Its just like coaches. If they're no good, you don't keep them just because you have to pay them their guaranteed salary.

The only reason I see not to do this is if they have an eye to trading the expiring deals for an impact guy. I'm not sure we would be able to do that if we cut them.
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#57
#57
Yah, been saying the same thing. They probally wont be playing. We are going to pay them regardless so might as well cut them, and let the young guys with potential play.

Guys like Corliss. Does not matter if he is at the end of the bench, or at home. We are paying the same for his "services". Might as well send him home, or let him sign with a team that might play him. I would do that to keep Williams on the team. If we go over the lux tax, and Williams costs is 1.2 mil instead of 600k than so be it.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#58
#58
hammystyle said:
Honestly, if Corliss, Pot, and Hart are not going to play, why keep them on the team? Especially if you see Williams and Amundson having future value. If they waive them, there is a good chance they can negotiate some sort of buyout which wouldn't help the salary cap, but would cut costs and probably cover the additional cost of Williams and Amundson. It makes no sense to me that they'd give those guys a roster spot just because they have a guaranteed. salary. Williams and Amundson may be undrafted rookies, but I am still pretty sure that they could match or better the production of Pot and Corliss.

Its just like coaches. If they're no good, you don't keep them just because you have to pay them their guaranteed salary.

The only reason I see not to do this is if they have an eye to trading the expiring deals for an impact guy. I'm not sure we would be able to do that if we cut them.
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That is the real issue -- our most useless guys depth chart wise all have ending contracts. So they could well be kept around becuase they could have a significant use -- landing a major player at the deadline from a team looking to shed salary.

If we have no intention of doing that, then I would agree, the money is going to be paid anyway, and the young guys are almost free (in NBA $$ terms), so might as well keep your best 15/guys with the most potential.
 
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