Training Camp 2024

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twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#151
#151
Sac.Kings said:
You are thinking about this correctly. Keegan isn't a PF, his game is far more SF-like. I understand that basketball is now position-less, but he would fare better in a more traditional 3 spot, where he has good to great size and can defend well. We need an actual PF, like the one you described, to unlock the full potential of this team. I remain optimistic that we can work something out before the trade deadline to get us a player that fits that PF mold or at least, checks off most boxes. We need some size there, that's for sure. We can have DeRozan slide over to the 2 spot and all of a sudden we would go from being undersized to having decent to good size. There aren't a whole lot of physical players remaining in the league, but when we face one, we have absolutely no answer for them. Lyles is as close as we can get along with some Keegan, but neither of them are suited for that.
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Definitely agree on the Murray part. DeRozan at the 2…not as much.

We are already really deep at guard with Fox, McLaughlin, Ellis, Monk, Carter, and Huerter all able to log minutes at PG or SG. While at the same time we only have DeRozan, Huerter, McDermott, Murray, & Lyles able to log minutes at SF or PF. If we now are having DeRozan log sizeable minutes at the 2, you’re thinning out the forward minutes and squeezing someone out in the guard rotation.

If we didn’t have so many good, solid guard options and weren’t more thin upfront, I might be open to it. However, I would be very nervous asking DeRozan to defend SGs. His athleticism isn’t where it once was, and I think he is much better suited at defending SFs or PFs. Perhaps in this scenario you just have Murray take the quicker, better SGs and you have your 3&D PF take the better offensive player at either SF or PF (leaving DeRozan with the easiest defensive matchup).

However, I feel like Fox gets the short end of the stick here when we’re playing teams with great PGs. Starting a guy like Ellis (or Carter if he becomes the player I think he will) allows us to relieve Fox defensively as those guys can take the tougher offensive player between PG and SG. I guess Murray could do some of that but I think that’s more taxing for a guy Murray’s size to do vs. someone like Ellis or Carter. I’d prefer for Murray to mainly be guarding wings/forwards as it will also be important to get solid offensive output from him as well.



For what it’s worth, I do still like a Huerter for Finney-Smith swap at the deadline. If we moved to the lineup you suggested, the minutes rotation may be something like…


PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - DeRozan (18) / Monk (12) / Ellis (18)
SF - Murray (26) / DeRozan (14) / Ellis (8)
PF - Finney-Smith (26) / Lyles (16) / Murray (6)
C - Sabonis (34) / Len (14)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
DeRozan = 32 min
Murray = 32 min
Monk = 26 min
Ellis = 26 min
Finney-Smith = 26 min
Lyles = 16 min
Len = 14 min


As you can see, this would…
  1. Cut McLaughlin out of the rotation completely
  2. Leave no minutes for Carter when he comes back from injury
  3. Force us to play small with Ellis getting 8 minutes at SF

It’s not a horrible rotation by any means, but I obviously have my concerns.
 
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Elektrik

Elektrik

Bench
#152
#152
SacTownKid said:
And other dominoes are starting to fall. It must be a trick these days to fill out your G-league roster or something because Skal got waived so they could sign Timme, Davis, and O'neal. lol. Monte is either tricking that exhibit 10 thing to stack the Stockton team or the new CBA is just that ridiculously complicated.
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Now The Kings have waived Timme, Davis, and O’Neal to the G-League. I’m now confused as to how many spots are left on the Kings team….
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#153
#153
Elektrik said:
Now The Kings have waived Timme, Davis, and O’Neal to the G-League. I’m now confused as to how many spots are left on the Kings team….
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That was the plan, they signed all these guys so they could have them in the G-league. It's procedural for some reason. Teams are doing it all over the place right now.
 
C

Caccia

Starter
#155
#155
Elektrik said:
Now The Kings have waived Timme, Davis, and O’Neal to the G-League. I’m now confused as to how many spots are left on the Kings team….
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One. After trading McDaniels, they had two, but that spot has now been taken by Doug McDermott. The teams needs another power forward to guard guys like Zion Williamson.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#157
#157
twslam07 said:
Definitely agree on the Murray part. DeRozan at the 2…not as much.

We are already really deep at guard with Fox, McLaughlin, Ellis, Monk, Carter, and Huerter all able to log minutes at PG or SG. While at the same time we only have DeRozan, Huerter, McDermott, Murray, & Lyles able to log minutes at SF or PF. If we now are having DeRozan log sizeable minutes at the 2, you’re thinning out the forward minutes and squeezing someone out in the guard rotation.

If we didn’t have so many good, solid guard options and weren’t more thin upfront, I might be open to it. However, I would be very nervous asking DeRozan to defend SGs. His athleticism isn’t where it once was, and I think he is much better suited at defending SFs or PFs. Perhaps in this scenario you just have Murray take the quicker, better SGs and you have your 3&D PF take the better offensive player at either SF or PF (leaving DeRozan with the easiest defensive matchup).

However, I feel like Fox gets the short end of the stick here when we’re playing teams with great PGs. Starting a guy like Ellis (or Carter if he becomes the player I think he will) allows us to relieve Fox defensively as those guys can take the tougher offensive player between PG and SG. I guess Murray could do some of that but I think that’s more taxing for a guy Murray’s size to do vs. someone like Ellis or Carter. I’d prefer for Murray to mainly be guarding wings/forwards as it will also be important to get solid offensive output from him as well.



For what it’s worth, I do still like a Huerter for Finney-Smith swap at the deadline. If we moved to the lineup you suggested, the minutes rotation may be something like…


PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - DeRozan (18) / Monk (12) / Ellis (18)
SF - Murray (26) / DeRozan (14) / Ellis (8)
PF - Finney-Smith (26) / Lyles (16) / Murray (6)
C - Sabonis (34) / Len (14)

Fox = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
DeRozan = 32 min
Murray = 32 min
Monk = 26 min
Ellis = 26 min
Finney-Smith = 26 min
Lyles = 16 min
Len = 14 min


As you can see, this would…
  1. Cut McLaughlin out of the rotation completely
  2. Leave no minutes for Carter when he comes back from injury
  3. Force us to play small with Ellis getting 8 minutes at SF

It’s not a horrible rotation by any means, but I obviously have my concerns.
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Fair point, I don't disagree with any of what you said. I wasn't so much looking at the positions specifically, more of increasing our size/length overall, especially so in the starting lineup. It's not ideal, I agree, and there could be 15 different answers that all make sense to varying degrees. I don't think we have addressed all of our needs and luckily I think the GM recognizes that. Only issue is we are largely out of money and largely out of tradeable players that other teams would want. Huerter is the most logical choice to trade away, but is coming off injury and will have to prove to teams he can still play at a high level. Is Finney-Smith the answer for us? 3&D PFs are hard to come by so I wouldn't say no to that deal, especially since I view Huerter as redundant for us, but we would have to be feeling pretty confident that it's the right play for us. We would be out of chips, so to speak, after that trade.

A less popular approach could involve Monk and filler. I don't think Monk would ever be on the trade block (for obvious reasons), except for a scenario that sees us land a higher profile player, one that fits a need more closely than Monk does. If you're the Kings, you'd have to be absolutely certain that it would work, otherwise it would completely blow up in their face. Fox would be pissed, the fans would be pissed, and the media would eat us alive.

DeRozan was a great get for us and will really help when our offense stalls down the stretch (seemed to happen way too often last year), but we didn't get any bigger and we didn't get any tougher. I think Murray is out of position and we are still very weak defensively in the paint. Domas got into foul trouble often last year because we have no one else and that's just not his game. We have talent, it just isn't very well rounded at the moment. I am also getting super tired of hearing the word "pace" being constantly thrown out. We need size and we need some defensive help at the 4, not try to constantly score 120+ every night.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#158
#158
ShastaKingsFan said:
Is there anyone else like Williamson?
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I get what you are saying, but our inability to defend him is what lost us the season last year. 0-6 and two of those were towards the end of the season/play in. Four out of the six losses were by double digits, two of which were by 30+.

I get your message, but it's a legitimate worry. If we split those games with them, we would have had the superior record and have had the same record as the Suns. None of that matters now of course, but still a concern.
 
coolhandluke

coolhandluke

Starter
#161
#161
iowamcnabb said:
I actually think we should put Sabonis on Zion and Giannis. He’s the only guy that can match the strength and just deal with the consequences of having a smaller player on the center.
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Sabonis can match the strength. However, they can drive on him and get him in foul trouble, which spells disaster for our offence.
 
hrdboild

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#163
#163
iowamcnabb said:
Yeh that’s a possibility, I’d still like to at least try it. I think Sabonis moves his feet pretty well and could it least slow those guys a bit.
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I think Sabonis is a much better defender than he typically gets credit for -- especially as a weakside help defender rotating over to stop dribble penetration from guards and small forwards. But when he goes up against guys in the 6'9" and up range who can just jump over his head, there's not much he can do. If he puts his body into them he'll get called for the foul. If he keeps his body back and reaches he'll get called for the foul. If he stays straight up he's not going to block the shot and half the time he'll still get called for the foul cause that's the NBA. And in all of these cases when Sabonis is the one to contest we've now lost our rebounding advantage because Sabonis is probably going to be out of position to finish the play off with a defensive rebound.

This is something that is going to take some trial and error to figure out the right rotation mix but I think this team has a very hard ceiling of around 50 wins until/unless Monte finds some interior defensive help for Sabonis. He's the best defensive rebounder in the league and the focal point of our offense. Someone else needs to be on the floor for 20-30 minutes a game to contest interior shots, soak up the inevitable fouls that go along with those contests, and allow our guards and wings to stay home on shooters.
 
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Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#164
#164
Sac.Kings said:
I get what you are saying, but our inability to defend him is what lost us the season last year. 0-6 and two of those were towards the end of the season/play in. Four out of the six losses were by double digits, two of which were by 30+.

I get your message, but it's a legitimate worry. If we split those games with them, we would have had the superior record and have had the same record as the Suns. None of that matters now of course, but still a concern.
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Zion didn’t play the play-in game so that is in fact not what lost the Kings the season last year.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#171
#171
Tetsujin said:
Zion didn’t play the play-in game so that is in fact not what lost the Kings the season last year.
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He may not have played, but us losing 5 games to them last year before that game played a big part in our disappointing season. We couldn’t solve that riddle and it cost us. They are a big physical team and we simply aren’t. When nearly 14% of your losses are to one team, then yeah I’m going to scrutinize the hell out of that. And that’s 14% not including the play in game.
 
Sac.Kings

Sac.Kings

All-Star
#172
#172
hrdboild said:
I think Sabonis is a much better defender than he typically gets credit for -- especially as a weakside help defender rotating over to stop dribble penetration from guards and small forwards. But when he goes up against guys in the 6'9" and up range who can just jump over his head, there's not much he can do. If he puts his body into them he'll get called for the foul. If he keeps his body back and reaches he'll get called for the foul. If he stays straight up he's not going to block the shot and half the time he'll still get called for the foul cause that's the NBA. And in all of these cases when Sabonis is the one to contest we've now lost our rebounding advantage because Sabonis is probably going to be out of position to finish the play off with a defensive rebound.

This is something that is going to take some trial and error to figure out the right rotation mix but I think this team has a very hard ceiling of around 50 wins until/unless Monte finds some interior defensive help for Sabonis. He's the best defensive rebounder in the league and the focal point of our offense. Someone else needs to be on the floor for 20-30 minutes a game to contest interior shots, soak up the inevitable fouls that go along with those contests, and allow our guards and wings to stay home on shooters.
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Well said. He’s our offensive engine and our rebounding guru. He’s good at stopping penetration like you said, but we can’t also expect him to be our weak side blocker. He needs help. We have failed to provide any help for him thus far. All we do is talk about pace.
 
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