Rick's good at failing...

[VF21]

rick did a great job in getting the team to respond after the awful effort in game 1, however, that doesn't justify his mistake of leaving one of the worst defenders in the game during the last seconds when the opposing team has the ball. in bibby's defense, it looked like duncan fouled him so that he couldn't get to berry on time...but they're not going to call a foul off the ball against a mr. fundamental.

This was brought up before and the question has to be who would you have had out there instead? It's really easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback but if you're going to do so, at least propose what you would have done differently. Which player would you have had on the court instead of Bibby?

 

[kennadog]

So you have Kevin, SAR, Hart, Cisco and Bibby in. No Ron and Bonzi's fouled out. Here's your choices to guard the perimeter, if not Bibby: Potapenko, Miller, Corliss, Kenny, Price or Sampson. Some folks have said KT, but he's a pretty lousy perimeter defender. So who would you put in? Bibby screwed up, but you watch that damn play and Cisco is the one King who never left the guy he was defending. (The small blessing I was granted is that Cisco kept Ho**y from getting the shot.)

 

[kennadog]

This was brought up before and the question has to be who would you have had out there instead? It's really easy to be a Monday-morning quarterback but if you're going to do so, at least propose what you would have done differently. Which player would you have had on the court instead of Bibby?

Not only that, but if Rick had put in someone else and they still got the shot they needed, Rick would have been blasted for that decision. So he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

 

[VF21]

Exactly.

Kenny Thomas had pretty much done nothing but leave Horry unguarded already, so no way Adelman would put him in over Bibby. And you don't bring someone in who hasn't even stepped on the court all night at that point in the game.

Had Bibby not gone to the floor (whether on a foul/touch by Duncan or a invisible hit by a comet), Barry wouldn't have been wide open. Would Bibby have blocked the shot? Don't know but he certainly might have had a better opportunity...

 

[bozzwell]

So you have Kevin, SAR, Hart, Cisco and Bibby in. No Ron and Bonzi's fouled out. Here's your choices to guard the perimeter, if not Bibby: Potapenko, Miller, Corliss, Kenny, Price or Sampson. Some folks have said KT, but he's a pretty lousy perimeter defender. So who would you put in? Bibby screwed up, but you watch that damn play and Cisco is the one King who never left the guy he was defending. (The small blessing I was granted is that Cisco kept Ho**y from getting the shot.)

Wow, that just sent chills down my spine. I guess you're right - the small victory here is: at least it wasn't Bob.

 

[kennadog]

Well, I think Bibby didn't stay with Barry like he should have. Hart got burned by Ginobili, Kevin left Parker (I think it was) out beyond the 3. But I also couldn't figure out why, after he let Duncan get away from him, SAR didn't move one toe to run at Barry. He couldn't have prevented the shot, but I'd have to think that running at the shooter with arms up is better than spectating.

Anyway, at this point I'm sorry for how it ended, but I'm still extremely proud of how our team fought back in this game. Seems like no one here wants to acknowledge that (for now ) we are playing a much better team.

 

[kennadog]

Wow, that just sent chills down my spine. I guess you're right - the small victory here is: at least it wasn't Bob.

LOL And I realize how stupid that sounds, because it doesn't change the outcome one bit. But somehow, I was just glad it wasn't him. It would have been like salt in the wound.

 

[SacKings4Life21]

Straight from ESPN's Hot/not article... my point proven... game set match

NOT: Rick Adelman. Ho hum. Another year, another Kings' playoff disappointment. Adelman will take some heat for not fouling with his team up by three in the final seconds, but that was probably the right call given how much time still remained. Instead, what got my attention were two other moves that have received little comment in the press thus far. First, he had Bibby on the floor for the Spurs' game-tying play, even though Bibby was worthless on defense the entire night (and season, for that matter). Wouldn't Francisco Garcia have been a more logical play there?

 

[coolhandluke]

Straight from ESPN's Hot/not article... my point proven... game set match

NOT: Rick Adelman. Ho hum. Another year, another Kings' playoff disappointment. Adelman will take some heat for not fouling with his team up by three in the final seconds, but that was probably the right call given how much time still remained. Instead, what got my attention were two other moves that have received little comment in the press thus far. First, he had Bibby on the floor for the Spurs' game-tying play, even though Bibby was worthless on defense the entire night (and season, for that matter). Wouldn't Francisco Garcia have been a more logical play there?

Hmm.. Francisco Garcia was out there doing a good job of smothering the most dangerous three-point shooter on the floor, Robert Horry. Shows me how much attention this guy was paying to the game. Wouldn't choosing someone with a normally functioning brain and a pair of eyes to write a column been a more logical choice?

 

[VF21]

Straight from ESPN's Hot/not article... my point proven... game set match

NOT: Rick Adelman. Ho hum. Another year, another Kings' playoff disappointment. Adelman will take some heat for not fouling with his team up by three in the final seconds, but that was probably the right call given how much time still remained. Instead, what got my attention were two other moves that have received little comment in the press thus far. First, he had Bibby on the floor for the Spurs' game-tying play, even though Bibby was worthless on defense the entire night (and season, for that matter). Wouldn't Francisco Garcia have been a more logical play there?

And second, why didn't Kenny Thomas get the ball? Dick Stockton and Reggie Miller completely glossed over this, but San Antonio played smallball for the last eight minutes, 37 seconds of the fourth quarter and the entire overtime, with Michael Finley lining up as its "power" forward.

That meant Finley was guarding Thomas for more than 13 minutes -- more than a quarter of basketball. In all that time Thomas got exactly one shot -- and it came on a put-back, not on a scripted play. So in other words, despite holding a huge advantage on the blocks that they should have exploited mercilessly, the Kings didn't get Thomas the ball down low once in all that time. And in a related story, Sacramento was outscored 44-30 in that stretch

The trouble with making smug, self-serving comments is you sometimes have to take them back when slapped in the face with cold, hard logic and facts.

1. Cisco was on the court.

2. They quit going to Kenny after he made two key turnovers, most likely as a result of his wrist injury.

So, do you like your crow sauteed or baked?

 

[SacKings4Life21]

well my biggest point from this article was about the foul option... and I think bibby shouldnt have been on a 6'7 player... it thought he should guard parker... since he isnt a legit three point thret... if he gets burnt to the basket? sweet thats what we want him to do

 

[Ryle]

The trouble with making smug, self-serving comments is you sometimes have to take them back when slapped in the face with cold, hard logic and facts.

1. Cisco was on the court.

2. They quit going to Kenny after he made two key turnovers, most likely as a result of his wrist injury.

So, do you like your crow sauteed or baked?

I think a better point is why wasn't Thomas on the floor guarding Horry and Cisco over guarding Barry in that sequence?? Anyone notice how a real coach like Pop was shuttling in players left and right going offense to defense?? For the life of me I can't understand why, when you need a stop to win the game, you would have Bibby out on the court or even remotely close to the court. When the game get's tight Rick is at his worst. Good regular season coach but when the games matter he fails.

 

[VF21]

I think a better point is why wasn't Thomas on the floor guarding Horry and Cisco over guarding Barry in that sequence?? Anyone notice how a real coach like Pop was shuttling in players left and right going offense to defense?? For the life of me I can't understand why, when you need a stop to win the game, you would have Bibby out on the court or even remotely close to the court. When the game get's tight Rick is at his worst. Good regular season coach but when the games matter he fails.

As a guess? Kenny says he hurt his wrist. That could be why he wasn't on the court at that time. He and the coaches knew there was something wrong with his hand, but I don't remember Grant saying anything...

 

[SacKings4Life21]

I think a better point is why wasn't Thomas on the floor guarding Horry and Cisco over guarding Barry in that sequence?? Anyone notice how a real coach like Pop was shuttling in players left and right going offense to defense?? For the life of me I can't understand why, when you need a stop to win the game, you would have Bibby out on the court or even remotely close to the court. When the game get's tight Rick is at his worst. Good regular season coach but when the games matter he fails.

Totally agree with everything...

 

[SacKings4Life21]

My main pont was i wanted to see a foul.. and that rick, as Ryle said, is at his worst when its close... I think kenny should have been on the floor, defendign the perimiter with his length... anything is better than a 6'1 slow bibby

 

[VF21]

Even if Kenny couldn't move his wrist?

As I just posted in another thread, this is just silly. Some people are really taking this "blame Bibby" or "blem Aelamn" thing to an absurd level. But that's what message boards are for, I guess. Not everything can be good, insightful discussion. Sometimes people have to vent...

Peace.

 

[kennadog]

well my biggest point from this article was about the foul option... and I think bibby shouldnt have been on a 6'7 player... it thought he should guard parker... since he isnt a legit three point thret... if he gets burnt to the basket? sweet thats what we want him to do

I'm confused. So you agree with the writer that not fouling was the right option, correct? I happen to think there was too much time left to foul right away.

Kevin was on Parker, where he's done a good job most of the night. Put Bibby on Parker, he's available to penetrate and kick out same as Ginobili. Their penetrating ability made them dangerous, not their 3-point shooting. That's why Horry and Barry were out there. And Kenny had done a pretty terrible job guarding the perimeter in the game.

I feel bad for Garcia, writers, radio talk people, some people on this board all wondering why Rick didn't put Garcia in. Here he did a great job on Horry and no one noticed he was even out there. Poor guy's invisible.

 

[kennadog]

Wasn't KT guarding Horry on about three made 3-pointers earlier in the game?

 

[Warhawk]

Mike wasn't supposed to block a Barry shot, he was supposed to be there to prevent the pass in the first place. You guys act like Mike on Barry would be worthless - preventing the pass prevents the shot. All he has to do is stand in the way.

I have no problem with Mike being out there, as he's one of the best FT shooters on the team and has been very clutch for us and that's important in the end of a game (see Hack-a-Shaq). He blew his assignment and we lost the game, but don't act like he was there to block the shot so his presence was a stupid call on Rick's part. That is not the case.

 

[VF21]

Wasn't KT guarding Horry on about three made 3-pointers earlier in the game?

He was in the general vicinity. I don't think you could say he was actually "guarding" Horry.

 

[kennadog]

Mike wasn't supposed to block a Barry shot, he was supposed to be there to prevent the pass in the first place. You guys act like Mike on Barry would be worthless - preventing the pass prevents the shot. All he has to do is stand in the way.

I have no problem with Mike being out there, as he's one of the best FT shooters on the team and has been very clutch for us and that's important in the end of a game (see Hack-a-Shaq). He blew his assignment and we lost the game, but don't act like he was there to block the shot so his presence was a stupid call on Rick's part. That is not the case.

And Mike's FT shooting is probably a big reason he was out there. There was, at that point, still a lot of time left. 14 seconds can be a long time.

 

[jacobdrj]

wow you find that funny. Obviously you didn't watch the game. I'm also wondering if you even seen Bibby's defense this whole season. IF a coach was smart he would put his best defenders in that kind of a situation.

After looking at your sig i guess you've been tuned out for a couple of years...

Wasn't Pop subbing O for D and vice cersa every chance he got?

 

[VF21]

Yep and with his bench he certainly could afford to...

 

[jacobdrj]

Yep and with his bench he certainly could afford to...

Very good point. But don't the Kings at least have a similar luxury at the PG position with Bibby and one of the youngins?

 

[Bricklayer]

Very good point. But don't the Kings at least have a similar luxury at the PG position with Bibby and one of the youngins?

All the "youngins" were in except Ronnie Price (the 12th man), who had not played a second all game.

We have 7 "littles", 2 were gone (Bonzi, Ron), 3 were in the game for that play (Hart, Kevin, Cisco), that left only Mike and Ronnie Price -- an undrafted rookie 12th man who played maybe 200 minutes all season -- to choose from.

 

[SacKings4Life21]

I'm confused. So you agree with the writer that not fouling was the right option, correct? I happen to think there was too much time left to foul right away.

Kevin was on Parker, where he's done a good job most of the night. Put Bibby on Parker, he's available to penetrate and kick out same as Ginobili. Their penetrating ability made them dangerous, not their 3-point shooting. That's why Horry and Barry were out there. And Kenny had done a pretty terrible job guarding the perimeter in the game.

I feel bad for Garcia, writers, radio talk people, some people on this board all wondering why Rick didn't put Garcia in. Here he did a great job on Horry and no one noticed he was even out there. Poor guy's invisible.

No i said that fouling was the correct option. thats what hollinger said. I agree... foul ginobli on the drive... thats my opinion

 

[kennadog]

No i said that fouling was the correct option. thats what hollinger said. I agree... foul ginobli on the drive... thats my opinion

Better read it again...

NOT: Rick Adelman. Ho hum. Another year, another Kings' playoff disappointment. Adelman will take some heat for not fouling with his team up by three in the final seconds, but that was probably the right call given how much time still remained. Instead, what got my attention were two other moves that have received little comment in the press thus far. First, he had Bibby on the floor for the Spurs' game-tying play, even though Bibby was worthless on defense the entire night (and season, for that matter). Wouldn't Francisco Garcia have been a more logical play there?

 

[Bricklayer]

Better read it again...

NOT: Rick Adelman. Ho hum. Another year, another Kings' playoff disappointment. Adelman will take some heat for not fouling with his team up by three in the final seconds, but that was probably the right call given how much time still remained. Instead, what got my attention were two other moves that have received little comment in the press thus far. First, he had Bibby on the floor for the Spurs' game-tying play, even though Bibby was worthless on defense the entire night (and season, for that matter). Wouldn't Francisco Garcia have been a more logical play there?

Note to author: CISCO WAS ON THE FLOOR DUFUS!

 

[GoGoGadget]

Note to author: CISCO WAS ON THE FLOOR DUFUS!

With the number of times I've had to point this out to people over the last two days, I'm very seriously considering getting this tattooed on my forehead.

Happened to be listening to 1140 last night while driving around because I forgot to put the disc changer back in my car and heard Jim Kozimor, LaSalle Thompson and Henry Turner argue back and forth for at least ten minutes about whether or not Cisco should have been in the game during that possession. That I managed to avoid a car crash is astounding to me.

 

[DocHolliday]

I can't believe this is still being argued about. How can ANYONE make a case for Mike Bibby to be on the floor during that defensive possession??

You had

hart
Martin
Bonzi
Garcia
Thomas
Abdur-Rahim

Now as I count that, there are six names there. None of them include Bibby. Choose the 5 guys you think will play the best suited for this particular defensive possession, and put them on the floor. END OF STORY. Anyone who can argue that Bibby should have been out there should go see a doctor something. I know he's a good free throw shooter, but we'll never get to the line if the stop isn't made, as was demonstrated.