Report: Taj Gibson available

Iced Espresso

Iced Espresso

Starter
#3
#3
Chicago will hang up the phone unless we drop pick protections and also include Nik. May take 3 teams, but they could use Landry, they'd take him for a package of youth infusion.
 
lwc

lwc

Starter
#4
#4
Iced Espresso said:
Chicago will hang up the phone unless we drop pick protections and also include Nik. May take 3 teams, but they could use Landry, they'd take him for a package of youth infusion.
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If we are truly in win-now mode, I would be tempted to do it if they took Landry and Thompson's contacts.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#6
#6
The most I'd offer is probably Stauskas+JT/Landry.

Anything more is overpaying.

Good presence on D, and a decent/good offensive player. But he is turning 30 next year and has never really had a year where he's been anything more than a role player. 2014 was a breakout year because of injuries. He's also turning 30 this year.

A few factors play into it. I wouldn't give up the pick + Nik. I'd rather just keep Nik + the pick and draft WCS.
 
S

swisshh

Starter
#7
#7
I would give up protection on the pick and Nik. There's some good bigs in this draft, but bigs take years to develop. Team needs a quality pairing with Cousins now. Not three years from now.
 
S

sdballer

Starter
#8
#8
swisshh said:
I would give up protection on the pick and Nik. There's some good bigs in this draft, but bigs take years to develop. Team needs a quality pairing with Cousins now. Not three years from now.
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I don't know. Maybe if we could dump Landry but at this point, we're heading into top 5 pick potentially. Gibson isn't going to improve us that much so you're talking about two top 10 picks for Gibson?
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#12
#12
206Fan said:
The most I'd offer is probably Stauskas+JT/Landry.

Anything more is overpaying.

Good presence on D, and a decent/good offensive player. But he is turning 30 next year and has never really had a year where he's been anything more than a role player. 2014 was a breakout year because of injuries. He's also turning 30 this year.

A few factors play into it. I wouldn't give up the pick + Nik. I'd rather just keep Nik + the pick and draft WCS.
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Yes, he's 30, but this is only his 6th season in the league. Not to mention he's only averaged 24 mpg through those 6 seasons. There's not a lot of wear and tear on his body. Now I'm not saying as you get older, your body doesn't tend to decline, but I'm willing to bet he'll be able to play at a high level longer than people think.

Keep this in mind: Gibson is in his 6th season, has played a total of 413 games, and a total of 10,210 minutes in the NBA. Cousins is in his 5th season, has played a total of 327 games, but has played 10,081 minutes. That's only a difference of 129 minutes (not even 3 full games). My point is I don't think he is going to decline as some think he will. He's been relatively well preserved with no major injuries.

With that in mind, I'm all for bringing Gibson aboard. I've been one of his biggest supporters on this board, but recently I've always thought he was 'ungettable.' I would be willing to trade Stauskas, Landry, and lower the protection to top 5 (probably would go to top 3 if the Bulls weren't having it).

If we could also swing Sessions to Charlotte for an expiring, we would be in excellent shape next offseason. We would only have Cousins, Gibson, Thompson, Moreland, Gay, McLemore, Collison, & McCallum on contract for next year. That's absolutely no fat. With the salary cap rising next year. That gives us approximately 14 mil in cap space to add around that core. We could go after guys like Dragic or Rondo to upgrade our PG spot or we could swing a Collison and McLemore for J. Holliday trade and sign Afflalo or W. Matthews to play SG. This trade could set us up in a very good position to be relevant again.


PG - Dragic/Colllison/McCallum
SG - McLemore/FA Vet
SF - Gay/FA Vet
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins/FA Vet

Or

PG - Holiday/McCallum
SG - Matthews/FA Vet
SF - Gay/FA Vet
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins/FA Vet

Both of those teams could be very dangerous in the west. Go ahead and hire a good coach in the offseason (Thibs), and you're on your way to relevancy again.
 
2

206Fan

All-Star
#13
#13
twslam07 said:
Yes, he's 30, but this is only his 6th season in the league. Not to mention he's only averaged 24 mpg through those 6 seasons. There's not a lot of wear and tear on his body. Now I'm not saying as you get older, your body doesn't tend to decline, but I'm willing to bet he'll be able to play at a high level longer than people think.

Keep this in mind: Gibson is in his 6th season, has played a total of 413 games, and a total of 10,210 minutes in the NBA. Cousins is in his 5th season, has played a total of 327 games, but has played 10,081 minutes. That's only a difference of 129 minutes (not even 3 full games). My point is I don't think he is going to decline as some think he will. He's been relatively well preserved with no major injuries.

With that in mind, I'm all for bringing Gibson aboard. I've been one of his biggest supporters on this board, but recently I've always thought he was 'ungettable.' I would be willing to trade Stauskas, Landry, and lower the protection to top 5 (probably would go to top 3 if the Bulls weren't having it).

If we could also swing Sessions to Charlotte for an expiring, we would be in excellent shape next offseason. We would only have Cousins, Gibson, Thompson, Moreland, Gay, McLemore, Collison, & McCallum on contract for next year. That's absolutely no fat. With the salary cap rising next year. That gives us approximately 14 mil in cap space to add around that core. We could go after guys like Dragic or Rondo to upgrade our PG spot or we could swing a Collison and McLemore for J. Holliday trade and sign Afflalo or W. Matthews to play SG. This trade could set us up in a very good position to be relevant again.


PG - Dragic/Colllison/McCallum
SG - McLemore/FA Vet
SF - Gay/FA Vet
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins/FA Vet

Or

PG - Holiday/McCallum
SG - Matthews/FA Vet
SF - Gay/FA Vet
PF - Gibson/Thompson/Moreland
C - Cousins/FA Vet

Both of those teams could be very dangerous in the west. Go ahead and hire a good coach in the offseason (Thibs), and you're on your way to relevancy again.
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Like you, I've been a huge Gibson guy, but I value draft picks a little more higher than others. I'd actually love it if we could acquire either Holiday or Dragic, but I have a complaint with it a bit. I think Gay is way too much of an ISO player for him to work with either PGs.. Collison is a GREAT compliment to Gay because he all he has to do is pass the ball to Gay and let him work his isos.

I'd love love to have your 2nd lineup minus Gay. I'd instantly trade Gay for someone like. Michael Kidd gilchrist, Draymond Green, Parsons, Gallinari, or Stanley Johnson.

Here's what I'd do, trade Rudy Gay, Sessions, and Landry for Danillo Gallinari, Javalee McGee, and Randy Foye.

I know we'd be taking a 1 year injury risk with all 3 players, but if it works out, this team would be 5th seed. I think a core of just Holliday-Matthews-Cousins would be playoff bound.

I'd add a 3pt specialist SF in Kyle Singler.

New team...

PG- Holliday/Foye/Ray
SG- Matthews/ FA
SF- Gallinari/Singler
PF- Gibson/JT/Moreland
C- Cousins/McGee

This team would be amazing..
 
twslam07

twslam07

All-Star
#14
#14
206Fan said:
Like you, I've been a huge Gibson guy, but I value draft picks a little more higher than others. I'd actually love it if we could acquire either Holiday or Dragic, but I have a complaint with it a bit. I think Gay is way too much of an ISO player for him to work with either PGs.. Collison is a GREAT compliment to Gay because he all he has to do is pass the ball to Gay and let him work his isos.

I'd love love to have your 2nd lineup minus Gay. I'd instantly trade Gay for someone like. Michael Kidd gilchrist, Draymond Green, Parsons, Gallinari, or Stanley Johnson.

Here's what I'd do, trade Rudy Gay, Sessions, and Landry for Danillo Gallinari, Javalee McGee, and Randy Foye.

I know we'd be taking a 1 year injury risk with all 3 players, but if it works out, this team would be 5th seed. I think a core of just Holliday-Matthews-Cousins would be playoff bound.

I'd add a 3pt specialist SF in Kyle Singler.

New team...

PG- Holliday/Foye/Ray
SG- Matthews/ FA
SF- Gallinari/Singler
PF- Gibson/JT/Moreland
C- Cousins/McGee

This team would be amazing..
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I would tend to agree that you would need at least one of your three guys (PG, SG, SF) to play a more off-the-ball role to have a more successful team so I can see why trading Gay would be ideal to you if you have Holiday and Matthews already. You don't want to turn into the Raptors with a Lowry, DeRozan, Gay lineup. However, Gallinari is not even close to the player he was. He is flat out playing horrible. I'm not sure why he would be your preference...

I would like to keep it as realistic as possible which would mean probably the most minimal of trades: 1) Stauskas, Landry, & Pick for Gibson 2.) Sessions to Charlotte for expiring

Then next year you sign Dragic, grab some veteran wing players, bring in a backup C, hire a competent coach, and call it quits. You have Dragic and Gay as your players with the ball in their hands and McLemore as the off-ball specialist. You mentioned it not being able to work between the two if Dragic was brought here (even if McLemore is at SG). I don't think that will be the case. Rudy was on some very talented Grizzly teams, and was able to remain effective. In 2010-2011, they had a starting lineup of Conley, Allen, Gay, Randolph, Gasol (with Mayo off the bench). I see Conley and Dragic on the same tier of PGs.

A 1-2-3 scoring punch of Cousins, Gay, and Dragic is nothing to get upset over (especially when your PG is team oriented and unselfish). Dragic has made the sacrifice to play off the ball a lot of the time with Bledsoe next to him. Now Dragic does still get to handle the ball a fair amount, but I'm sure he would have no problem with taking a bit of a back seat to Cousins and Gay and knowing that he needs to find them at good spots on the floor before he looks to score himself. Not to mention all of that experience playing off the ball in Phoenix would only help him here when Cousins and Gay have possession of the ball.

Dragic and Collison would give us 48 minutes of solid, unselfish, defensive PG play each game. With Dragic's size, it would allow them to be able to play together and not be taken advantage of in certain matchups. Giving all (or a large majority) of the guard minutes to Dragic, Collison, and McLemore would give us some good and consistent production from the 1 and 2.

Then you have the dynamic of Cousins, Gibson, and Thompson where you can throw out a combination of any of those 3 and not have a mismatching, uncomplimentary pairing. Cousins and Thompson both have the size & length to play C . Gibson and Thompson have the athleticism to play PF. Both Gibson & Thompson would be good man defenders who can relieve Cousins while Gibson can help with the shotblocking. Not to mention both Gibson and Thompson can knock down open jumpers to help space the floor for Cousins and others. A 3 big rotation of Cousins, Gibson, and Thompson would be one of the best in the league.

Lastly, you add in Gay and a steady veteran wing to back him up between those two groupings of players (Dragic/Collison/McLemore & Cousins/Gibson/Thompson) and you have yourself a very good 8 man rotation.

Come on Pete. It's not that hard to have a plan.
 
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2

206Fan

All-Star
#15
#15
twslam07 said:
I would tend to agree that you would need at least one of your three guys (PG, SG, SF) to play a more off-the-ball role to have a more successful team so I can see why trading Gay would be ideal to you if you have Holiday and Matthews already. You don't want to turn into the Raptors with a Lowry, DeRozan, Gay lineup. However, Gallinari is not even close to the player he was. He is flat out playing horrible. I'm not sure why he would be your preference...

I would like to keep it as realistic as possible which would mean probably the most minimal of trades: 1) Stauskas, Landry, & Pick for Gibson 2.) Sessions to Charlotte for expiring

Then next year you sign Dragic, grab some veteran wing players, bring in a backup C, hire a competent coach, and call it quits. You have Dragic and Gay as your players with the ball in their hands and McLemore as the off-ball specialist. You mentioned it not being able to work between the two if Dragic was brought here (even if McLemore is at SG). I don't think that will be the case. Rudy was on some very talented Grizzly teams, and was able to remain effective. In 2010-2011, they had a starting lineup of Conley, Allen, Gay, Randolph, Gasol (with Mayo off the bench). I see Conley and Dragic on the same tier of PGs.

A 1-2-3 scoring punch of Cousins, Gay, and Dragic is nothing to get upset over (especially when your PG is team oriented and unselfish). Dragic has made the sacrifice to play off the ball a lot of the time with Bledsoe next to him. Now Dragic does still get to handle the ball a fair amount, but I'm sure he would have no problem with taking a bit of a back seat to Cousins and Gay and know that he tries to find them at good spots on the floor before he looks to score himself. Not to mention all of that experience playing off the ball in Phoenix would only help him here when Cousins and Gay have possession of the ball.

Dragic and Collison would give us 48 minutes of solid, unselfish, defensive PG play each game. With Dragic's size, it would allow them to be able to play together and not be taken advantage of in certain matchups. Giving all (or a large majority) of the guard minutes to Dragic, Collison, and McLemore would give us some good and consistent production from the 1 and 2.

Then you have the dynamic of Cousins, Gibson, and Thompson where you can throw out a combination of any of those 3 and not have a mismatching, uncomplimentary pairing. Cousins and Thompson both have the size & length to play C . Gibson and Thompson have the athleticism to play PF. Both Gibson & Thompson would be good man defenders who can relieve Cousins while Gibson can help with the shotblocking. Not to mention both Gibson and Thompson can knock down open jumpers to help space the floor for Cousins and others. A 3 big rotation of Cousins, Gibson, and Thompson would be one of the best in the league.

Lastly, you add in Gay and a steady veteran wing to back him up between those two groupings of players (Dragic/Collison/McLemore & Cousins/Gibson/Thompson) and you have yourself a very good 8 man rotation.

Come on Pete. It's not that hard to have a plan.
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A fan can dream..

I like what you're pointing at, but I'd like to point out that Memphis ended up trading Rudy. Memphis traded Rudy for a back up PG and PF, while replacing him with a low usage vet 3&D guy..Tayshaun Prince.


I think Dragic excels very very well when he's the playmaker with the ball in his hands. When Bledsoe was out, he was playing the best game of his career. After adding IT, his overall production has gone down a bit. I just don't see it working with Dragic/Gay. Dragic excelled with Bledsoe because they were a 1-2 punch. Dragic is very willing with playing off the ball, but like Tyreke, if he plays off the ball too much, he's invisible out there.

Lowry/DeRozan both aren't heavy iso players. Both Cuz and Gay are beyond heavy ISO players. I think it can work, but I don't think you're getting the best out of Dragic when you force him to play between 2 ball dominate players. He's disliked sharing the ball with 2 other ball dominate players, which makes me think he won't like it very much here either. At least IT/Bledsoe are good passers. He doesn't have to clear out for IT/Bledsoe to score.

I think Gay works best with a low usage PGs like Collison. The problem with having a mediocre player as your PG, is that you need a good SG or PF to balance it out. That's something our team doesn't have. It's nothing personal against Gay, I just think 2 heavy ISO players along with a great scoring PG won't work on the team. Imagine 2014 all over again with IT. The team resulted in minimal wins, and a lot of people were complaining that IT took shots away from Gay and Cuz too much.

I just feel like if we're going to get a PG like Dragic in our hands, I wouldn't want to waste all he can do just because Rudy's such an iso heavy ball dominate player. I wouldn't object to the idea that it probably would work though. I think if it was Holiday/Gay/Cuz, it defintely would not work.


Gallinari is almost damaged goods, but if he does have a great comeback year, it would be amazing.


I don't think you should make the Gibson trade without making another splash trade. That's how I see all of this. You don't trade Nik+1st rounder just to land Gibson and hope that he'll be enough for our playoff push. I think if you trade Nik+1st rounder, then you'd also have to trade for an above average PG or SG with the remaining trade pieces. It should be an all or nothing type of trade starter.
 
R

Rose2Thomas

G-League
#16
#16
If Bulls do end up trading Gibson part of the reason would be to free up minutes for the other bigs. They might want to take back Landry OR Thompson but what they'd want most would be a solid wing that helps them win now.

Maybe they'd want McLemore but then the Kings probably won't do it.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#17
#17
The 1983 76ers went 67-15 and won a title with a structure VERY similar to our current starting structure. There is nothing the matter with the structure itself. They just had better personnel at 4 of the 5 positions, and a more mature presence at the one where we were in the ballpark.
 
kupman

kupman

Starter
#18
#18
Bricklayer said:
The 1983 76ers went 67-15 and won a title with a structure VERY similar to our current starting structure. There is nothing the matter with the structure itself. They just had better personnel at 4 of the 5 positions, and a more mature presence at the one where we were in the ballpark.
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Dude?

The 76ers had Andrew Toney that year at SG. He was very good and I think an All Star that year. Ben is no Toney. How many SG's in the WC would need to get hurt before Ben was placed on the All Star team. All of them and a few bench players I think.

Also DC is not Maurice Cheeks. The 76ers back court was miles and miles ahead of ours.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#19
#19
Bricklayer said:
The 1983 76ers went 67-15 and won a title with a structure VERY similar to our current starting structure. There is nothing the matter with the structure itself. They just had better personnel at 4 of the 5 positions, and a more mature presence at the one where we were in the ballpark.
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4 of 5? You have Cousins over Moses?

say what???
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
#21
kupman said:
Dude?

The 76ers had Andrew Toney that year at SG. He was very good and I think an All Star that year. Ben is no Toney. How many SG's in the WC would need to get hurt before Ben was placed on the All Star team. All of them and a few bench players I think.

Also DC is not Maurice Cheeks. The 76ers back court was miles and miles ahead of ours.
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The '83 Sixers were built:

C - franchise center/#1 option, huge rebounder, not a big shotblocker
PF - defensive roleplayers
SF - high scoring atheltic gliding SF/#2 option
SG - designated shooter/three point bomber (relative to his era)
PG - defensive/distributing PG

As I quite particularly said, it was the STRUCTURE that was similar. The talent is not. #1 weapon center. #2 small forward. Roleplayers at PF. Designated shooter. Passing/defensive PG to run it. Boogie is closer to Malone than he is to an Admiral. Rudy is about as close to a poor man's Dr. J as you are going to find in the modern league. Ben is in theory an Andrew Toney type, although to tell you the truth I don't have a feel for Toney's off the ball movement. The biggest gap might actually be at PG where Collison is more just a middling keep things going PG with some scoring ability, while Cheeks was a true floor general. Nonetheless, the roles are similar across the board. Its the execution that is not (although notably the starters all season long, well until lately, have worked better together than the rest of the team).
 
CurseOfTheSalmons

CurseOfTheSalmons

Starter
#22
#22
Last year Isaiah Thomas filled in the Andrew Toney scoring role, and we had a great starting lineup (minus Ben). We were just missing the Bobby Jones/Mo Cheeks supporting cast types--guys who didn't care about shot attempts, were great defenders, and selfless and good passers. Now we're missing that AND the Andrew Toney type (AND front office unity).
 
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The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#23
#23
CurseOfTheSalmons said:
Last year Isaiah Thomas filled in the Andrew Toney scoring role, and we had a great starting lineup (minus Ben). We were just missing the Bobby Jones/Mo Cheeks supporting cast types--guys who didn't care about shot attempts, were great defenders, and selfless and good passers. Now we're missing that AND the Andrew Toney type (AND front office unity).
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Bobby Jones was truly a nasty defender. Doesn't get the credit like the modern defensive stars (Artest, Bowen, etc), but by every account, dude was a flat out animal on that end. What set him apart was his insanely good efficiency and ability to be a playmaker when needed. Can see Draymond Green developing into a version of him
 
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The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#24
#24
Bricklayer said:
I have Cousins in Malone's class, yes. When it is all said and done the gap there is not going to be huge, whichever way it goes.

The gap everywhere else is big.
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Not saying that he isn't capable as Cuz is still only 24 somehow, but he's still in a class below those GOAT C's. He's got to take his game to another level if he wants to be compared with Moses, Shaq,etc.

Right now, Cuz's career trajectory puts him in that 2nd group of C's. The Walton, Zo, Dwight, Willis Reed group.
 
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