Please support your opinion on Garcia. I see Garcia as part of the young core of this team, not trash. He's become an excellent outside shooter, a good and willing defender, especially from the weak side, an able point forward, a coachable player (which on this team is like water in the desert), a pressure shooter, and a guy whose performance doesn't change, depending upon whether he starts or not. He's also becoming a leader on this team, which should not be undervalued. I know it's a controversial position, but I'd take him over either Artest (the nutcase) or Salmons (the moody ball-hog).
Quincy Douby
- Thread starter BawLa
- Start date
It's all about improvement with Douby. Martin didn't make a huge leap until Year 3. Neither did Garcia. What will Douby do next year? Can he make the same leap? He really needs to work his butt off in the off-season. I'm not one though to say he doesn't have a place on this team because of the jam at the 2-guard. For all we know, Salmons could be traded (I wouldn't mind if we did if we got decent value). Then Garcia and Douby would be subbing for Martin.
I think anyone who confuses the positions played by Ron Artest and QD has, uh, credibility issues.
Yes, Martin has quick feet. But he's not a strong defensive presence like Garcia, Salmons, and Artest can be. If you listen to interviews and watch the game, it's not Garcia who needs to step up his defensive efforts - it's Martin who slacks off defensively more often than any other. How many blocks per game and steals per game does each get? Oh yeah, Garcia has 8 times as many blocks and 20% more steals per game with 10 fewer minutes. He is often slated with the difficult defensive assignments at the guard positions. But you must be right, he sucks.
Get a grip.
Yes, Martin has quick feet. But he's not a strong defensive presence like Garcia, Salmons, and Artest can be. If you listen to interviews and watch the game, it's not Garcia who needs to step up his defensive efforts - it's Martin who slacks off defensively more often than any other. How many blocks per game and steals per game does each get? Oh yeah, Garcia has 8 times as many blocks and 20% more steals per game with 10 fewer minutes. He is often slated with the difficult defensive assignments at the guard positions. But you must be right, he sucks.
Get a grip.
is this flying right over your head. do you know what a wing player is? have you ever played the game before? regardless if you're a shooting gaurd of a sf you're a wing player. that was my comparison.
bruce bowen has been the best on the ball defender in the league for the past 6 or 7 years, but when has he ever led the league in steals? those kind of numbers dont matter. ask VF21, and read the quote about how cisco pees on our transition opportunities with dum decisions. now yall are backing him up?
Talk about procrastination...how nice of Douby to have a scoring punch the last game of the season when we're already getting smacked by the Lakers of all teams.
QD is a scorer and nothing more...problem is, he's not a great one...all year he has displayed his "stellar" scoring efficiency by missing countless layups & gimmes. Like most have said, he's too deep in the rotation.
I can only hope that this performance does not yield him an extension of any sort...let him prove himself in his last year.
QD is a scorer and nothing more...problem is, he's not a great one...all year he has displayed his "stellar" scoring efficiency by missing countless layups & gimmes. Like most have said, he's too deep in the rotation.
I can only hope that this performance does not yield him an extension of any sort...let him prove himself in his last year.
No, it's not flying over my head. We are talking about QD, a 1-2 combo trying to play point (you know, the position you listed in a previous post - I'll quote it for you). Not Ron, a 3 who swings to 2 or 4.
And you can try to change the definition of a 1-2 to swing player if you like, doesn't make it true.
I think you are really stretching it saying that besides it being widely known that defense is Martin's weakest point in his game, you would try to use Bowen's skills and stats to say he's better than Garcia, who is well regarded defensively.
So are you saying that we should sit Salmons and garcia and play QD at the 3?
I think at this point you are just being a troll, or really don't know what you are talking about. You pick.
And you can try to change the definition of a 1-2 to swing player if you like, doesn't make it true.
I think you are really stretching it saying that besides it being widely known that defense is Martin's weakest point in his game, you would try to use Bowen's skills and stats to say he's better than Garcia, who is well regarded defensively.
So are you saying that we should sit Salmons and garcia and play QD at the 3?
I think at this point you are just being a troll, or really don't know what you are talking about. You pick.
how about as a scorer off the bench?
I'm thinking Jason Terry - and not the one that used his PG skills in Atlanta - the scrawny short guy in Dallas that can absolutely kill teams with his shooting when he gets hot.
Two questions about him are:
1) Can he develop that killer instinct as a shooter? Up to him I think
2) Will he even get playing time to develop with our logjam at SG? If we get rid of Ron this summer, he'll probably be able to be worked in for 10 minutes a game. If one of the 3 guys in front of him get injured, he'll get more.
There is a path for him to succeed here, although not likely as a starter and not as a star.
I'm thinking Jason Terry - and not the one that used his PG skills in Atlanta - the scrawny short guy in Dallas that can absolutely kill teams with his shooting when he gets hot.
Two questions about him are:
1) Can he develop that killer instinct as a shooter? Up to him I think
2) Will he even get playing time to develop with our logjam at SG? If we get rid of Ron this summer, he'll probably be able to be worked in for 10 minutes a game. If one of the 3 guys in front of him get injured, he'll get more.
There is a path for him to succeed here, although not likely as a starter and not as a star.
Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner.
Douby still has an opportunity to breakout in his third year. IMO Garcia did not. Douby has more potential at this point. Whether he fits in with or has a place on this roster will be determined by those who know what the vision for the future is. Douby will be a successful player in the NBA barring injury.
(notice I made the last period bold to empasize it - haha)
Douby still has an opportunity to breakout in his third year. IMO Garcia did not. Douby has more potential at this point. Whether he fits in with or has a place on this roster will be determined by those who know what the vision for the future is. Douby will be a successful player in the NBA barring injury.
(notice I made the last period bold to empasize it - haha)
To me, Quincy doesn't seem to be as dynamic as Terry--as you mentioned about killer instinct, Terry has it, and he's absolutely clutch. Quincy first of all needs to develop primacy--demand for the ball, consistency shooting the ball. He seemed very fluid in the Laker game, but admittedly it was against poor defense particularly against him--he had many open looks, he had several open lanes, he did what he was supposed to do as a self-proclaimed scorer. Terry has many intricate moves--the step-back, the pull-up J, the ability to create his own shot, the ability to change directions in a herky-jerky manner--I didn't see any of that from Quincy at least in the Laker game. Against better defenses, and in a game with real meaning, he'll need to adjust to those factors. His jumper and ability to slash means that he'll probably get 8-12 points a game given playing time, but to take it to the next level he needs to develop those moves.
If one wants to enlighten people, and actually convince them of a point one is trying to make. One doesn't talk down to them and come across as condesending. I will listen to anyone's pt of view as long as its done in a civil tone. But the moment someone trys to convince me that he or she is smarter than I'am, by trying to belittle my intelligence or knowledge, they have lost me. I'm no longer interested in what they have to say. Good advice for anyone, is never lock yourself into a box. Always be open to the ideas of others. No one ever wants to be wrong, but God forbid, it does happen sometimes. I'm not saying you are. I'm just saying there are good points being made on both sides. Don't just assume that yours are always right.
My two cents worth. Actually its free, so take it for what its worth. One game does not a season or a player make. Good for Douby. It was nice to see him have a feel good game. It was obvious to me as I was watching the game, and I watched it twice ( fell asleep a couple of times the first time around. Shows how interesting it was ) that the Lakers wern't going to allow us to score inside. Hawes was not going to be allowed to go off the way he did the last time he played them. Nope, they were going to make us beat them from the outside. No Artest or Martin to deal with, so just do a decent job on Garcia and Beno and you win. And it worked. Salmons main game is penetrating, and they did a pretty good job of jamming up the middle. So Douby had Carte Blanche ( probably misspelled ). Hey good for him for taking advantage, but don't make it more than it was.
I remember Walt Williams going off for around 44 pts one night early in his career. I remember thinking at the time, wow, we have a big time player on our hands. Well, Walt was an OK player, but he was never big time. A lot of it was his fault, but thats another thread.
I remember Walt Williams going off for around 44 pts one night early in his career. I remember thinking at the time, wow, we have a big time player on our hands. Well, Walt was an OK player, but he was never big time. A lot of it was his fault, but thats another thread.
The 44pts was as I recall against the Jazz. Remember the game, and the same sentiment. Of course should have recognized it as just good numbers on a bad team syndrome -- somewhat like Douby last night it was nothing he was ever going to duplicate in a real game with a real roster where he did not get to gun up every shot (that was the year Mitch was hurt). He was just one on one freelancing. And I think we lost anyway.
Like Tim Hardaway, Isiah Thomas, Ben Wallace, and a number of other NBA greats. On the other hand, the list of physics majors in the NBA includes... nobody at all.
I'm not losing sleep over Douby's major, any more than I'm thinking that Moses Malone, KG, Kobe, Andrew Bynum, Tyson Chandler and Amare Stoudemire are way too dumb to play ball because they didn't go to college. If I want to see smart people, I go to a chess tournament, not a ball game.
I am concerned that he doesn't usually seem to make our team better, whether one is looking at the stats or watching the games. Yes, he had a great night in LA, and Shelden put up a solid double-double as well, on a night when everyone else sucked. But that was probably because everyone else on the team was totally exhausted, those two benchwarmers were the only ones left with enough energy to play. The Lakers had played 3 back-to-backs in the prior 7 weeks, we had 2 in 5 days. So thank the NBA scheduling folks for a guaranteed loss to top off the season... and for setting the stage for Douby's record game.
I think Douby's biggest problem is that the only need he fills on our roster is that of trade bait, and Reggie seems to have no interest in increasing his value. Douby's situation is a perfect example of how BPA draft philosophy can go wrong. There was no shadow of a doubt that we were in need of a Millsap or a Rondo. While needs can be blatantly obvious, BPA is never more than an educated guess, and, outside of the top several picks, GMs' guesses are usually wrong. In this case, we may have to see how Douby does on a different team before we'll know if he's going to be any good. If Cisco accepts our qualifying offer in 2009-10, Douby may leave the franchise without ever having seen more than garbage time.
All we know for sure right now is that he's not been very good for us.
I'm not losing sleep over Douby's major, any more than I'm thinking that Moses Malone, KG, Kobe, Andrew Bynum, Tyson Chandler and Amare Stoudemire are way too dumb to play ball because they didn't go to college. If I want to see smart people, I go to a chess tournament, not a ball game.
I am concerned that he doesn't usually seem to make our team better, whether one is looking at the stats or watching the games. Yes, he had a great night in LA, and Shelden put up a solid double-double as well, on a night when everyone else sucked. But that was probably because everyone else on the team was totally exhausted, those two benchwarmers were the only ones left with enough energy to play. The Lakers had played 3 back-to-backs in the prior 7 weeks, we had 2 in 5 days. So thank the NBA scheduling folks for a guaranteed loss to top off the season... and for setting the stage for Douby's record game.
I think Douby's biggest problem is that the only need he fills on our roster is that of trade bait, and Reggie seems to have no interest in increasing his value. Douby's situation is a perfect example of how BPA draft philosophy can go wrong. There was no shadow of a doubt that we were in need of a Millsap or a Rondo. While needs can be blatantly obvious, BPA is never more than an educated guess, and, outside of the top several picks, GMs' guesses are usually wrong. In this case, we may have to see how Douby does on a different team before we'll know if he's going to be any good. If Cisco accepts our qualifying offer in 2009-10, Douby may leave the franchise without ever having seen more than garbage time.
All we know for sure right now is that he's not been very good for us.
I’m glad there’s a thread for Quincy, even though it’s the last game of the season for us.
I’m a fan of his and I think he does or will develop that killer instinct - I guess I have a lot of faith in him. He really does need the minutes to grow and show people what he’s capable of – whether he shows us that he’s a bust/mediocre/stellar. He needs court time; Cisco needed it this year and he’s developing greatly.
There is a problem with having Quincy on the team, like some people said we have Kevin, Francisco, John and Ron. When John wasn’t playing, Reggie could have given some of his minutes to Douby. And I wouldn’t expect (nor would I really want that) the coach to sit Kevin or Cisco in order for Quincy to get time. But I do think that he should have gotten John’s minutes when John wasn’t feeling the game.
Hopefully the last game of the season gave this kid some confidence; hopefully it’ll lead into next year. I’d love to see him grow with us but I’m not sure that’s going to happen; maybe if we trade john for a couple draft picks, Quincy will able to come in with Cisco and provide some spark.
I’m a fan of his and I think he does or will develop that killer instinct - I guess I have a lot of faith in him. He really does need the minutes to grow and show people what he’s capable of – whether he shows us that he’s a bust/mediocre/stellar. He needs court time; Cisco needed it this year and he’s developing greatly.
There is a problem with having Quincy on the team, like some people said we have Kevin, Francisco, John and Ron. When John wasn’t playing, Reggie could have given some of his minutes to Douby. And I wouldn’t expect (nor would I really want that) the coach to sit Kevin or Cisco in order for Quincy to get time. But I do think that he should have gotten John’s minutes when John wasn’t feeling the game.
Hopefully the last game of the season gave this kid some confidence; hopefully it’ll lead into next year. I’d love to see him grow with us but I’m not sure that’s going to happen; maybe if we trade john for a couple draft picks, Quincy will able to come in with Cisco and provide some spark.
Everyone keeps bringing up the fact that he is way too far down the pecking order at SG (not to mention undersized) and the fact that he is not a true PG. I agree with all of this. But I do think he can become an asset for this team. And it would be as a backup PG.
If Garcia is our 6th man and if Hawes is going to be able to handle more minutes in the near future, then there are 2 guys that can help to pick up the assist-load that Douby is lacking relative to the average backup PG. It just means that when Douby is on the court the offense runs to him not through him. As for the defensive end, where Douby would struggle with most SG's, he can certainly handle himself versus PG's.
So there you have it. It's not a crazy concept. I don't have any pie in the sky expectations for Douby. We still need a starting PG that we can really run our offense through, but that is no different that where we currently stand. As much as I like Beno, I think we missed the window -if there was one- to sign him cheap. Plus I think we can do better than him for the long term. Short-term, no problem.
Anyway, as a backup PG, Douby would get what?...8-10 minutes/game? That is only 8-10 minutes a game that we run the offense through Garcia and Hawes. I think we can manage that. Then we have a cheap, servicable backup until we have enough depth everywhere to push him out. Or maybe he breaks-out and learns to be a better pointman and earns a starting position. After all, it does take longer to develop when he is only getting backup minutes.
If Garcia is our 6th man and if Hawes is going to be able to handle more minutes in the near future, then there are 2 guys that can help to pick up the assist-load that Douby is lacking relative to the average backup PG. It just means that when Douby is on the court the offense runs to him not through him. As for the defensive end, where Douby would struggle with most SG's, he can certainly handle himself versus PG's.
So there you have it. It's not a crazy concept. I don't have any pie in the sky expectations for Douby. We still need a starting PG that we can really run our offense through, but that is no different that where we currently stand. As much as I like Beno, I think we missed the window -if there was one- to sign him cheap. Plus I think we can do better than him for the long term. Short-term, no problem.
Anyway, as a backup PG, Douby would get what?...8-10 minutes/game? That is only 8-10 minutes a game that we run the offense through Garcia and Hawes. I think we can manage that. Then we have a cheap, servicable backup until we have enough depth everywhere to push him out. Or maybe he breaks-out and learns to be a better pointman and earns a starting position. After all, it does take longer to develop when he is only getting backup minutes.
True, but if our big problem is that we have too many talented, young players for them all to get playing time, that's not a bad problem to have. That's exactly the kind of luxury that allows a GM to package a #12 pick and a young talent to move up in the lottery or make another trade in the same vein.
