Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
He won’t commit to signing an extension because he’d be leaving potentially several hundred million dollars on the table by signing one now.
Potential Free agent/trade/sign tracker
- Thread starter iowamcnabb
- Start date
Oh, I think the mandate has been in place by the owner to win now and I think they have been working towards this for awhile now.
The move I make or rather the big splash player I would go for…..AND who is probably gettable would be Kuzma.
id have faith in Mike Brown to rein Kuzma in to fit in the offensive scheme but if we deal 1.13 and then HB and Huerter forKK and another low key piece or 2nd rounder.
What I see in KK and KM at the forwards spots would be a lot of firepower to go with our guards and Domas. KK also rebounds well enough and we would have a mobile front line with potential matchup problems for other teams.
Doesn’t address shotblocking big next to Domas but I’d rather have a guy who can score like KK.
His contract also isn’t like Lavine which is just bad.
id have faith in Mike Brown to rein Kuzma in to fit in the offensive scheme but if we deal 1.13 and then HB and Huerter forKK and another low key piece or 2nd rounder.
What I see in KK and KM at the forwards spots would be a lot of firepower to go with our guards and Domas. KK also rebounds well enough and we would have a mobile front line with potential matchup problems for other teams.
Doesn’t address shotblocking big next to Domas but I’d rather have a guy who can score like KK.
His contract also isn’t like Lavine which is just bad.
I'm not a Kuzma fan, but I wouldn't hate this, depending on the parameters of the deal. I'd love to pry Jonathan Isaac out of Orlando, but the more I read about Orlando's plans, I just don't see that as feasible.
I have a hard time believing that the Kings still have significant interest in LaVine given Monk's re-signing and Keon's emergence. But that deal would lock the Kings into cap purgatory. I'd be happier with a deal for Jerami Grant, and I'm not high on Grant at all as an upgrade from HB.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
When you trade a young player for veterans, trade first round picks, etc. I think it's a pretty clear sign. Now Vivek has to put his money where his mouth is.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, the question is cost though. Kuz and having to trade 1-2 firsts vs. someone like LaVine and the Bulls potentially sending something with him puts that Bulls deal above the Kuz one in a basketball sense IMO regardless of the contract if rumors are true. Monte is heading for cap hell no matter what he does at this point unless he's willing to let huge chunks of talent just shed off of his roster over time, which again, doesn't exactly help with winning. Kuz isn't really someone you give the ball to and ask them to generate points. Brown did complain about getting out in the open floor which Kuz would certainly help with. The thing is though, once the playoffs start, floor runners fall to players like Luka or Tatum as the game becomes a halfcourt war of attrition. Right now that would leave Fox on an island still. If a Kuz deal is all that's left standing, it's probably a better option than standing pat though. If Monte goes into another season where players like Huerter or Barnes get pushed further back as options it will kill what value they have left.
I still think if it's a contest of Grant or Kuz I think the extra 6 million a year even with more years is worth it considering how Grant is able to score with the ball. Also he brings much better 3 point shooting and gets to the line more even with less usage. The Kings downfall last season was their ability to generate contact at the rim. Grant is borderline elite at that.
I’ve been cautiously intrigued by the Kuzma fit for awhile. I just don’t want to give up the 13th as part of the deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if Holland slips and that’s more intriguing.
We will still need a back up big, unless were expecting a return of Len. Maybe Phoenix would consider their 22nd for Davion, that could bring us a promising big.
And Lavine makes even less sense now, maybe they throw in the 11th, doubtful, but Chicago needs to sweeten the deal somehow.
We will still need a back up big, unless were expecting a return of Len. Maybe Phoenix would consider their 22nd for Davion, that could bring us a promising big.
And Lavine makes even less sense now, maybe they throw in the 11th, doubtful, but Chicago needs to sweeten the deal somehow.
serbiangoat
Starter
Caleb Martin opted out , while he's not on the same tier as Kuzma/Grant he would be much cheaper if the Kings can move Barnes/Hurerter maybe sign Martin to a 3 year 36mil (would he take it)? He would basically be the back up 2/3 (can briefly fill in at the 1 as well) while being a starting level player.
If the Kings could trade for Grant Williams and sign Martin I think that's your KCP/Gordon type players (obvious differences) I don't like any of the bigger contracts out there from Ingram/Kuzma/ Jeremi Grant and you still have movable pieces in both Grant/Martin if they don't work out. Nanji Marshall is another guy I would look at signing if Martin deems the offer to low and theres a team willing to give him more.
All the guys above provide toughness unlike the bigger contract guys who don't at all, my personal #1 target would be Grant Williams (get Poku as well) he fills two positions in starting PF/back up C and is one a decent deal and still allows you to make moves and gives the team some nasty.
If the Kings could trade for Grant Williams and sign Martin I think that's your KCP/Gordon type players (obvious differences) I don't like any of the bigger contracts out there from Ingram/Kuzma/ Jeremi Grant and you still have movable pieces in both Grant/Martin if they don't work out. Nanji Marshall is another guy I would look at signing if Martin deems the offer to low and theres a team willing to give him more.
All the guys above provide toughness unlike the bigger contract guys who don't at all, my personal #1 target would be Grant Williams (get Poku as well) he fills two positions in starting PF/back up C and is one a decent deal and still allows you to make moves and gives the team some nasty.
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Of all the guys you mentioned, besides the Kuzma/Grant, I’d love to have Naji Marshall. I think he could Come in and give us the edge we need as well as putting up good numbers and defense AND get him away from the Pelicans
twslam07
All-Star
Still don’t like targeting LaVine but it would be interesting if CHI offered…
Zach LaVine
#11
for
Kevin Huerter
Sasha Vezenkov
Davion Mitchell
Chris Duarte
That would leaves us with a minutes rotation of…
PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - Ellis (24) / Monk (12) / LaVine (12)
SF - LaVine (20) / Barnes (24) / Murray (4)
PF - Murray (28) / Lyles (20)
C - Sabonis (34) / Len (14)
…or if you were wanting to have a bigger starting lineup, it could look like…
PG - Fox (34) / Monk (14)
SG - LaVine (18) / Ellis (18) / Monk (12)
SF - Murray (28) / LaVine (14) Ellis (6)
PF - Barnes (24) / Lyles (20) / Murray (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / Len (14)
On top of that, you’d have #11, #13, and #45 in the draft this year with the expectation that all of your future 1st round picks would be available to trade in the 2025 off-season. Barnes would also be an expiring contract the following season and could be used to help match salary when trading for an upgrade at PF.
I haven’t gone through how we’d be able to afford all of these guys (Fox, LaVine, Murray, Sabonis, Monk, Ellis, and an upgraded PF) which is very much a large question mark. Perhaps we’d have to target a G. Williams, Avdija, Kuzma, etc. who have cheap, long term deals for that upgrade at PF.
Think he was underutilized a bit with how much depth the Pelicans had on the wing. He has that confidence and swag this team needs, didn’t hesitate to choke Jimmy Butler and won’t back down from anyone.
CarlosBob
G-League
Can we afford another star player salary of 50 M. for more than 2 years? Once Fox, Keegan and Keon extend their deals we are going to have problems to keep that payrroll. Now while Fox is around 35M and Keegan is in his rookie contract we can pay another star, but after we extend them we are going to have problems.
Fox: 55M
Lavine: 49M
Sabonis: 47M
Keegan: ~35M?
Monk: 20M
Keon: ~15M?
It's already 221 M in only 6 players.
2023 1st apron: 172M
2023 2nd apron: 182.5M
I don't know how much the salary CAP and 1st and 2nd apron are going to change with the new TV deal but I think teams will only can afford 2 stars contracts and a third around 30/35 M if they want to have some deep with two Monk type deals.
With Monk resigning we need a SF/PF next to Keegan with a cost around 12/15M per year.
I think an Isaac, Stewart, Portis or DFS type of player via trade or Jalen Smith via FA should be the more logical targets. And from the trade target rumors only Kuzma can fit reasonably for long term despite I'm not convinced of the fit with the team.
Fox: 55M
Lavine: 49M
Sabonis: 47M
Keegan: ~35M?
Monk: 20M
Keon: ~15M?
It's already 221 M in only 6 players.
2023 1st apron: 172M
2023 2nd apron: 182.5M
I don't know how much the salary CAP and 1st and 2nd apron are going to change with the new TV deal but I think teams will only can afford 2 stars contracts and a third around 30/35 M if they want to have some deep with two Monk type deals.
With Monk resigning we need a SF/PF next to Keegan with a cost around 12/15M per year.
I think an Isaac, Stewart, Portis or DFS type of player via trade or Jalen Smith via FA should be the more logical targets. And from the trade target rumors only Kuzma can fit reasonably for long term despite I'm not convinced of the fit with the team.
This is really the key point. We need to prepare ourselves for that $50m per year Fox extension we know is coming and big raises for Keegan and Keon. There isn't room for another max player without cutting (salary dump trade) someone who we don't want to cut.
That also means the time is now to try and upgrade the talent level before salary cap restrictions take away Monte's roster flexibility. Once you look past the really expensive vets, there's a class of players in that $15m - 30m per year range who we can afford to target in trades. It's really just a matter of identifying the best fits and opportunities to buy low on players who are likely to outplay their current perceived trade value when paired up with Fox, Sabonis, Ellis, Murray, and Monk. And if you do find such a player, will their current team trade them and does that team want what we're selling?
Which is a long-winded way of saying that's it's not going to be easy for Monte to get all of this to line up just right. The lateral moves are easier to find. And that's why getting to 60 wins is a lot harder than getting to 45-50 wins where we are now.
So I've think I've narrowed in on 3 guys I really like in this FA class that'll be somewhat in our price-range
1. Obi Toppin
Developed this season into a light-out shooter with 40.3% from 3 on 3.1 3PA. He's always been a fairly productive rotation player, but I think that shot really just leveled him up into being a real starting caliber player. Not the best defender, but I think he'd operate in the HB role, just 6 years younger and far more athletic. I think he'd absolutely flourish with our pass happy/up-tempo offense. He is a RFA, but I think Indy probably thinks twice if we offer 8+mil/season
2. Naji Marshall
Another guy who developed into a quality shooter this season and who NOP is going to have a very hard time justifying keeping on a larger deal with who they have in front of him. Big wing that plays defense, (NOP Def Rtg was 4.8 points better with him on the floor. 1259 sample). And honestly has some surprising playmaking chops with a career Ast Rate of 14.2%, that's stayed stable his whole career.
3. Jalen Smith
I'm not certain he can actually play the 4, but another guy who was absurdly productive in IND's up-tempo offense and learned how to shoot this past off-season. Outstanding rebounder, doesn't turn the ball over and makes everything (68.2% TS!). As a UFA too, there's virtually no chance IND keeps him, so he's probably a "safer" guy to pursue over Toppin, who they still have RFA rights over. At the very least, I love the thought of that Fox-Monk-Lyles-Smith lineup where we'll get to play 5 out and leave the paint wide open for Monk/Fox.
1. Obi Toppin
Developed this season into a light-out shooter with 40.3% from 3 on 3.1 3PA. He's always been a fairly productive rotation player, but I think that shot really just leveled him up into being a real starting caliber player. Not the best defender, but I think he'd operate in the HB role, just 6 years younger and far more athletic. I think he'd absolutely flourish with our pass happy/up-tempo offense. He is a RFA, but I think Indy probably thinks twice if we offer 8+mil/season
2. Naji Marshall
Another guy who developed into a quality shooter this season and who NOP is going to have a very hard time justifying keeping on a larger deal with who they have in front of him. Big wing that plays defense, (NOP Def Rtg was 4.8 points better with him on the floor. 1259 sample). And honestly has some surprising playmaking chops with a career Ast Rate of 14.2%, that's stayed stable his whole career.
3. Jalen Smith
I'm not certain he can actually play the 4, but another guy who was absurdly productive in IND's up-tempo offense and learned how to shoot this past off-season. Outstanding rebounder, doesn't turn the ball over and makes everything (68.2% TS!). As a UFA too, there's virtually no chance IND keeps him, so he's probably a "safer" guy to pursue over Toppin, who they still have RFA rights over. At the very least, I love the thought of that Fox-Monk-Lyles-Smith lineup where we'll get to play 5 out and leave the paint wide open for Monk/Fox.
twslam07
All-Star
Well Fox, Murray, and Ellis won’t be on their new contracts until the 2026-27 season (Ellis could be on it during the 2025-26 season depending on what we choose).
Projected 2026-27 1st Apron = $216 mil
Projected 2026-27 2nd Apron = $229 mil
Fox = $51 mil
Lavine = $49 mil
Sabonis = $47 mil
Murray = $43 mil (if he’s maxed)
Monk = $20 mil
Ellis = $20 mil (hard to guess this)
Mystery PF = ???
Thats $230 mil over 6 players (if Murray shows he’s a max player and if my guess on Ellis is right) but it’s hard to see how we find the cap for that mystery PF.
This is one of the big reasons why I don’t want to target LaVine. We have 3 good, young guards already (Fox, Monk, Ellis) that fit very well together. Don’t touch it! Let’s focus on using that cap on a better, long term PF to slot between Murray and Sabonis.
I always figured that the LaVine interest was a fallback position (and an expensive one) for losing Monk in FA. With Monk back, I'm kind of surprised that there are rumblings at all that we still have potential LaVine interest, because the financials get really tough, as you point out.
Yeah, you just can't put yourself in this whole with such a risky player like LaVine. Now, if this were like Mikal Bridges or Lauri Markkanen? Then you risk the cap hell and figure it out later. Because you'd be damn sure that could be a title team if you could add them to our core 5.
BenchMob
Bench
man, would love to get Naji Marshall. Tough player that won’t put up with crap, we really need a player like that. Plus taking him away from NO is a plus too
twslam07
All-Star
But even with a Bridges or Markkanen, you don’t have to worry about adding that mystery SF/PF (which helps you avoid that cap hell more than this scenario with LaVine).
With LaVine, the issue is you’re paying $140 mil for 4 PGs/SGs but still need to add a solid SF/PF to round out the roster unless you plan on being a very small team by starting Fox-Ellis-LaVine-Murray-Sabonis (which I hate).
Wouldn't hate it in spurts...
twslam07
All-Star
That’s a lot of money tied up in “spurts”
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The Bulls wouldn't do that. They'd have no reason to especially if they are rebuilding. At that point Chicago would be better keeping LaVine. If he returns to form next season even on a rebuild squad some desperate team will come knocking with actual value at the deadline. People keep talking about LaVines deal, but get ready, these new deals coming down the pike are going to make his look like a bargain. That's how it always works after a new CBA. If LaVine continues to decline then they just wait out his deal. He'll be a monster expiring in another 2 seasons.
The Kings deal with the Bulls might have been the one that started to get randomly thrown around by some in the media right before Caruso got dealt. Barnes, Huerter, Filler, and 13 for LaVine, Caruso, and 11.
Honestly i think our guard play between Fox, Monk, Keon, and (Davion/Huerter) is sufficient with Jones on deep bench. We need to focus more on 3/4 spots and i am actually ok keeping Len as our backup center. I think since Bucks have made portis available, chase him. If we could pry away Markannen (even for 3 FRP including the #13) i would go for that first.
Then fill the roster with 2 other forwards, between Caleb Martin, Oubre, Royce Oneal, Naji Marshall, Houser, Okoro, Seddiq Bey, Jones Jr, or Foneteccio.
Another consideration would be see if OG could be enticed to come to SAC on a 4yr 120M (30M per) deal and try and swing a S/T with NYK for either Huerter/Barnes paired with #13, 2027FRP, AND either Lyles/Sasha and Duarte. If they go with Lyles and Duarte they get nearly $14M in expirings and 2 FRP. Unlikely they would want to do that but im not sure they would want to give him $30M either, so better our offer or lose him to another team which could possibly sign him outright (i think he'd fit well in Phili and they have $58M in cap space to snap him up with a better core behind embiid and Maxey)
Then fill the roster with 2 other forwards, between Caleb Martin, Oubre, Royce Oneal, Naji Marshall, Houser, Okoro, Seddiq Bey, Jones Jr, or Foneteccio.
Another consideration would be see if OG could be enticed to come to SAC on a 4yr 120M (30M per) deal and try and swing a S/T with NYK for either Huerter/Barnes paired with #13, 2027FRP, AND either Lyles/Sasha and Duarte. If they go with Lyles and Duarte they get nearly $14M in expirings and 2 FRP. Unlikely they would want to do that but im not sure they would want to give him $30M either, so better our offer or lose him to another team which could possibly sign him outright (i think he'd fit well in Phili and they have $58M in cap space to snap him up with a better core behind embiid and Maxey)
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If the Kings talk to NY it should be for Randle. OG is just so unlikely and I think it messes with the Kings cap since I believe it would hard cap them. I would easily offer up 13, future 1st, Barnes, Huerter, filler for Randle.
twslam07
All-Star
LaVine’s deal is on par with Sabonis and he’ll only be making $2 mil less than Fox on the 1st year of his new deal. This is not a Jerami Grant situation where he’ll only be making 20% of the cap.
twslam07
All-Star
Easily? I’d much rather surrender those assets for a better fit. Not a good shooter, not a good defender, and is a high usage big who likes the ball in his hands.
Luckily for us, there are much more attractive paths that we can take that don’t result in us trading for Randle.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Yeah, but Grant will probably COST you a first and LaVine is a 2 time All Star. Again, this is a game of value beyond pure cost and it's the negatives as to why LaVine might even be remotely gettable for what the Kings would be offering. Unless Barnes and Huerter walk, Davion walks, those guys alone will probably be making up the same percentage so what's the difference?
Sac.Kings
All-Star
Not a fan of Lavine on this team. We don’t need what he brings to the table. There’s something to be said if the deal is heavily in our favor (he’s not a chump after all), but the issue is what it would do to us financially. We would be hard pressed to improve the team significantly if we traded for Lavine. There is only one way you pull the trigger on this and that’s if you’re absolutely, unequivocally certain that he’s the guy to put the team over the top. Am I certain of that? Heck no, which is why I wouldn’t. Others may feel differently, but I hope those folks aren’t part of the kings front office.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
He's at least as good as Kuzma as a shooter and shoots in the midrange historically at a much more effective rate without help. The failure of the DHO is what killed the Kings. Even Murray said as much after the Pels knocked them out. Randle IMO is the best option to solve that problem as well as the one in relation to physicality which Brown harped on all last season.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
What does the Kings cap look like come 2026? Fox on a super max? Keegan on a rookie max? Monk making 20+. That option to add is likely gone anyway. Don't wait for it because then you couldn't even make a deal for almost anyone being mentioned without big time issues because you are likely an apron team already. They won't even have a full MLE to add players by then most likely. Heck as is they likely don't now.
