It did wonders for HB's efficiency when he came here from Dallas, but he was also a more efficient 3pt shooter than Kuzma whether he was the first option or not.
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It did wonders for HB's efficiency when he came here from Dallas, but he was also a more efficient 3pt shooter than Kuzma whether he was the first option or not.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Barnes still always had better share stats and his usage went down in the process for that efficiency to go up. If Kuz has to go down to a 17 in usage percentage like Barnes what is he? The only year he came close to that was his last year in LA and per 36 he was around a 16 and 8 player. Meh. That's no star. Maybe it unlocks super role guy but what if it doesn't? It could be a pretty big sunk cost. Barnes has also always been better from 3. Kuz has been pretty up and down with more attempts, some of which are very much "WTF was that" variety. Kuz is an upgrade for needs but I question the fit and the value. I'd go with Grant and Barnes over him. Or look for a 3 and D guy like Grant Williams TBH.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Grant was also a tough defender on the last good team he was on, with Denver. They used him a lot against their opponents best wing.
I think Brown would demand defense from him and he would respond like he did for Malone
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
“Although a return to Sacramento has not been completely ruled out, according to one source close to the process, Barnes is indeed a strong candidate to switch teams this offseason,” Stein wrote.
we have to tread carefully here. If we can’t get OG and Barnes leaves, then what? Lots of teams looking for wings
we have to tread carefully here. If we can’t get OG and Barnes leaves, then what? Lots of teams looking for wings
Lyles
Vezenkov
Throw a 15+mil contract at Grant Williams that the Celtics don't have the money for
Naz Reid
Josh Okogie
Josh Hart
Hail Mary a Cam Johnson RFA
There's plenty of options, a lot of which are very likely better than bringing HB back.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Lyles and Sasha are expected to be here with Barnes so we would not likely be better without him. Hart and Cam are pipe dreams in my opinion. Out of your list only Naz and Grant would potentially be an upgrade but we just don’t know that for sure. I don’t know the max Minny can pay Naz but if they plan to trade Kat they will likely hold on to him. Grant is for sure available and I would consider him but he had a career year this season at 8 points and 4 rebounds. HB averaged 15 points on great efficiency to go along with the durability and leadership. I think he is being undervalued a bit.
Possibly, but I also have to look at the playoffs as a data point too. Game 6 and game 7, honestly 2 of the bigger games in Kings franchise history, Brown decided that Barnes was unplayable. That's....telling. Even Huerter got back in during game 6 in the 4th, when he was just as awful (and did hit those 2 huge 3's to ice the game).
When one of your core rotation guys is deemed unplayable by the coach, that's your sign the team is ready to move on. And I actually do think we'd be just fine if Lyles/Vezenkov were the rotation at the 4 and you wouldn't lose anything from Barnes leaving.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Yeah, given Monte’s well documented interest in the guy, it feels like this is going to end up being our big FA splurge this season.
And he already has history of going back to his favorites if his first attempt fails, like with DDV.
I'm super interested now in Kuz. Really want to understand why his impact stuff is so good.
Cam I can see as an RFA, but I'm not quite sure why you see Hart as a pipe dream? At the very least he's coming up on his age 28 season and he's probably ready to join a contender, and I think there's a decent argument to be made that we are on that list at this point. Do you see a different reason Hart wouldn't want to join us?
ockingsfan
Starter
Agreed. I think Monte goes after Kuz this summer and if he strikes out, I wouldn't be surprised if he took another attempt to get Sadique Bey who will be fighting for minutes in a crowded wing rotation in Atlanta.
IMHO, I think Bey may be the more realistic player to get and he shouldn't cost us any of our core players.
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iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
personally I think that was match up based. The guys killing us were a guard and a center, the wings were pedestrian.
Lyles/Sasha might be fine but I fail to see that as an upgrade. Now maybe that cash can be redistributed elsewhere but again, it has to actually happen not talked about.
to me, running it back with Barnes does two things: build on chemistry and allow Keegan space to flourish and give us a useful trade chip with a big salary to take a larger swing if plan A doesn’t work out.
im open to an upgrade but I’m just not clear the names we have come with actually are.
I do trust that Monte will make the right decision here so I will likely be happy with the path he chooses (unless he trades Keegan haha)
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
The Knicks traded a first round pick for him and I doubt they see him as a rental. He is best friends with Brunson. I just don’t see him leaving unless the money is crazy.
Yeah, pretty much this haha. As long as Keegan isn't traded, I can probably talk myself into just about any direction we go in. That's the nice thing about having all the franchise pillars in place: GM/Coach/Franchise players/Potential stud young guy.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Yeah, Hart is top on my list (and rated well in Hollinger’s rankings) but all indications are that he would like to return and the Knicks plan to re-sign him.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Part of Kuz' openness has to do with the fact that he will often put himself in positions to shoot over defenses. I mean, legit this is a guy that will step 4 steps over the half court line, stop with the ball, and launch. haha. He can hit the shot though so that's a positive.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Hmmm... I think Davion qualifies as good.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
If they draft Murray I think the best option is to let Barnes go, bring Sasha over, and just let it play out. Build some assets and then strike if one of the contenders start sweating the new CBA. Signing a big money name that might not pan out is how you stall something like this out then and there. If Monte can't use the cap space he'll have via trade, it's not really going to make much sense to use it at this point. You're either just under names like Grant or Kuz money wsie, or you're just filling a spot. Monte also needs to be careful re-signing any players including Lyles. Keep the deals short and movable.
Telemachus
Starter
I think his biggest problem was having to be the 1st or 2nd option too much of the time because of injuries to their best players. Like Barnes, Kuzma should be at his best when he is the 3rd or 4th option.
What I do like about him is that he has turned himself into a slightly above average defender, and has grabbed 8.5 & 7.2 rebounds the past two seasons. He also had 3.5 & 3.7 assists as well.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
But that's the thing, with Kuz' efficiency stats as a 3rd or 4th option he's a 12 ppg guy historically. As a passer, he's not terrible. He can run some pick and roll but he's around a 1:1 a/to type in the end. Actually, in a lot of categories he's somewhat similar to Buddy Hield. Much worse 3 point shooter though.
Telemachus
Starter
Much better defender, though.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I need to see the stats people are citing. Personally, I hate individual rating stats almost as much as 2 man unit stats since they have no real true basis in almost any context but while his defensive rating isn't terrible, it's not that great either. He's .1 point above Malik Monk for context. He had some really good years but they were in LA as an off and on backup. As a team the Wizards were only 3 spots above the Kings on defense. If you want to see what Kuz is at his peak? His best opportunity was with the Wiz, so that's his ceiling in a role comparable to Fox. Not a 3rd/4th option.
Telemachus
Starter
I rarely look at defensive ratings. It is a poor metric with way too many flaws IMO. I go much prefer the eye test. I wouldn't call Kuzma a great defender, by he does a relatively good job of being where he is supposed to be and not losing his man. He also guarded all five positions this season.
As an example, Buddy Hield would routinely lose his man, only for his man to get the ball on the other side of the court. Defensive ratings would not knock Buddy in this case because they look at the closest player to the one scoring. He used to blow up the King's defense all the time doing this. I'm pretty sure this is why Fox wanted a coach who would hold players accountable.
Telemachus
Starter
Yeah, it would all depend on what Kuzma wants for his contact. If under $20 million, he might be a reasonable signing. If over that amount, I would likely pass
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Kuzma also theoretically is capable of playing as a smallball 5 (it's pretty much the role he was playing on the Lakers) and a good passer for his size. You do something like Kuzma/Lyles/#24 Pick wing/Monk/Mitchell with the second unit with Lyles sliding to the 5 whenever Sasha's on the floor and Kuzma needs a rest to come back in with the starters.
Mike Brown has seemed particularly reluctant to go full smallball with the backup unit though so I don't know if that would end up happening.
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