PG vs. PF/C discussion thread.

[CaminoChaos]

I was thinking. If we were to get a Defensive PG (Earl Watson,Brevin Knight,etc,etc.), do we still need a shot blocker? We have 3 (maybe 4) bigs capable of pulling down double digit rebounds. Miller, Thomas, Skinner and MAYBE Songaila.

So maybe a defensive PG to back up Bibby is all we need to spend our money on. With a defensive PG the bigs can consentrate on rebounding instead of leaving there man to help Bibby all the time. It lets them focus on boxing out there man instead of leaving him and hoping a teammate will box him out.

 

[NoBonus]

Interesting point. However, I do think we need someone or something massive to play some PF and backup C. The only problem I can see with the idea is that Bibby will still be playing HUGE minutes... thus, for most of the game the Kings will need the better PF.

 

[VF21]

So your theory is get a back-up point guard and forget about a real PF?

Sorry... I don't see that as a solution to anything.

IMHO we need a legitimate PF. Until and unless we get one, we're not going to compete with the elite teams in the West. Just ain't gonna happen...

 

[D-Mass]

So your theory is get a back-up point guard and forget about a real PF?

Sorry... I don't see that as a solution to anything.

IMHO we need a legitimate PF. Until and unless we get one, we're not going to compete with the elite teams in the West. Just ain't gonna happen...

Agreed...to me, the PF/C problem is much more pressing than the backup PG problem. I think it's bigger than the SG problem was also...hopefully a bigger move is yet to come.

 

[CaminoChaos]

Name 1 PF that can stop KG, Duncan, Nowitzki. Nobody can on a regular basis. The reason bigs have been killing us is because our bigs are playing off them to help out the gaurds. Offensively, Our bigs don't play close to the basket and that is a fact. They all play in the high post. So offensive rebounds are pretty much out of the question for the bigs. Defensively we need our bigs to rebound, Period. They can't box out there man if they are running across the key helping the gaurds all the time.

 

[Bricklayer]

Yes we still need a shotblocker. A defensive minded backup PG is relatively irrelevant on defense. An aggressive defeinsively active big minute big man though is the single most valuable defender a team can have. that player makes EVERYBODY a better defender by deterring penetration and allowing every single perimeter defender to defend his guy more closely than he otherwise would secure in the knowledge that if he gets beat on the drive help is coming.


We didn't just lose the battle inside last year, we got flat out whipped. With the whole gang together vs. Seattle we were reduced to complainign that the mean boys were picking on us and playing too hard. Humiliating. Needs to be corrected desperately. And not by adding a 6'0" backup PG.

 

[PFFFT!!]

I think we will get a decent PF to start and a good backup PG to boot. First I think we ought to wait until the moratorium to sign Wells and then proceed from there. Petrie might have a lot under his sleeve. Even the Wells deal isn't finalized until the ink is spilled.

 

[D-Mass]

Name 1 PF that can stop KG, Duncan, Nowitzki. Nobody can on a regular basis. The reason bigs have been killing us is because our bigs are playing off them to help out the gaurds. Offensively, Our bigs don't play close to the basket and that is a fact. They all play in the high post. So offensive rebounds are pretty much out of the question for the bigs. Defensively we need our bigs to rebound, Period. They can't box out there man if they are running across the key helping the gaurds all the time.

No one can stop those guys...but our problem is that we can't even stop people like Jerome James and Reggie Evans. So, IMHO, we should AT LEAST try to address that.

 

[KP]

If you buy into the fact that our defensive woes are all because of Mike Bibbys inability to keep his man in front of him you might think so. Of course you would be completely wrong... Yes we need a long shotblocker, with speed and good rotations inside.

 

[captain bill]

I was thinking. If we were to get a Defensive PG (Earl Watson,Brevin Knight,etc,etc.), do we still need a shot blocker? We have 3 (maybe 4) bigs capable of pulling down double digit rebounds. Miller, Thomas, Skinner and MAYBE Songaila.

So maybe a defensive PG to back up Bibby is all we need to spend our money on. With a defensive PG the bigs can consentrate on rebounding instead of leaving there man to help Bibby all the time. It lets them focus on boxing out there man instead of leaving him and hoping a teammate will box him out.

1. We don't have Songaila.
2. We don't need a shot blocker, we need a defender.
3. What do rebounds have to do with defense?
4. Even if we have a defensive PG, we can't just mold him with Bibby. They each get their own PT.
5. Neither Songaila, Thomas, Miller, or Skinner are great defenders. People thinking that Skinner is isn't really true- he gets some blocks, but most of those are just from him sticking up his arms and shooters hitting his hands with the ball. He doesn't actually defend very well.
6. Okay, let's say we do somehow shore up all the defensive needs through aquiring a backup PG. We still need a PF who can compete with other PFs in the west and run our offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

Again, final 4 teams last year interior defense: Shaq, Amare, Wallace, Duncan.

Not coincidence.

 

[VF21]

Name 1 PF that can stop KG, Duncan, Nowitzki.

I don't care if we have a PF that can always stop KG, Duncan, Dirk, etc. I'd just like someone who can slow them down and force their teams to have to consider other options. We do NOT have that right now... right now we have guys who look more like traffic control signalmen on a runway than stoppers.

You posed a theory about getting a defensive backup PG instead of worrying about a big for the PF/C ... My response stands.

 

[nbrans]

Again, final 4 teams last year interior defense: Shaq, Amare, Wallace, Duncan.

Not coincidence.

True, but, Miller is not a slouch. And Shaq is nowhere near the defensive presence he used to be.

I agree that the backup PF/C is the next position to address, because it's harder to fill than a backup PG. However, I seriously doubt that the Kings are going to get markedly better at the PF position in this offseason without trading Peja.

 

[LA King Fan II]

Can anyone really guard the best guys? IMO stopping quick guards (Nash, Parker, and superstars like Jordan/Kobe types is virtually impossible. Man defense is way overrated. Guys seem to get a whole lot more credit being superb man to man guys when they have "stoppers" inside. While Bibby is extremely weak on making his man change directions, it wouldn't matter nearly as much with a presence inside. In the playoffs we had zilch.

 

[Alacron]

True, but, Miller is not a slouch.

Yes, he is a slouch. In fact I can't off the top of my head name one "center" in the league who has worse defensive rotations that Miller. Seriously. The guy is a legit 7 feet and inspires not even a moment's pause in the slashers to the hoop.
~~

 

[Alacron]

Can anyone really guard the best guys? IMO stopping quick guards (Nash, Parker, and superstars like Jordan/Kobe types is virtually impossible. Man defense is way overrated. Guys seem to get a whole lot more credit being superb man to man guys when they have "stoppers" inside. While Bibby is extremely weak on making his man change directions, it wouldn't matter nearly as much with a presence inside. In the playoffs we had zilch.

The offensive player definitely has the advantage in basketball. There's no question about that. That's why 200+ points can be scored per game.

That's also why you have such a great advantage if you can stop the other guy from scoring just a few extra times per game. That's why Spurs and Pistons win championships.
~~

 

[captain bill]

Yes, they can be defended. Nash isn't much of a scorer (Dallas defended him well by LETTING him score) and Parker is a 3rd option (no team is going to focus their defense on stopping Parker), so I don't know why you would include them. And everyone knows that the Kings have had 2 Kobe stoppers of their own- Vlade and Mobley .

Asking for someone who can make the biggest stars in the league put up zeros is pointless. Asking for someone who can actually play defense and make some critical stops is what people actually are asking for.

 

[VF21]

And everyone knows that the Kings have had 2 Kobe stoppers of their own- Vlade and Mobley ..

Well, actually, we've had three.

You forgot the best one of all...

CHEESEBURGER!!!

 

[captain bill]

lol...i totally forgot about that one.

I like the picture. Is that yellow thing what Kobe ate? I guess that means he's not bright enough to avoid a yellow cheeseburger, then.

 

[Kings113]

If you read the article yesterday (back up PG), and past articles/quotes about getting size/rebounding (PF).

We'll be getting both.

 

[VF21]

lol...i totally forgot about that one.

I like the picture. Is that yellow thing what Kobe ate?

No, the "yellow thing" is Kobe - in Laker gold.



The thing chasing him is the "CHEESEBURGER" - or hatchet man.

 

[PixelPusher]

It's probably safe to asssume Kobe avoids the Billy Goat Tavern when he's in Chicago.


"Cheesburger, Cheesburger, Cheeseburger!"

 

[BobbyJ_for3!]

reminds me of the picture jay leno showe webber and bibby when they were on the show together...lmao...any way anyone can find taht picture online? id love to use it as a background

anyways, i think the pf/c is deff the biggest prob at this point. we can easily get house or price, so whats the rush to get a d point guard when we need a shot blocking c.....

i can see the argument, but with bibby on the team, its not like a backup pg would get enough time to make a huge impact on our overall defense.

 

[SacTownKid]

Petrie has said that he wants the team to be bigger next season. He has also said he needs to address the backup PG issue.

When looking at the roster the thing I notice the most is that we are SMALL!!! Getting bigger seems to be the most pressing issue at the moment. Brad needs a backup and we need to solidify the PF position.

 

[SacTownKid]

reminds me of the picture jay leno showe webber and bibby when they were on the show together...lmao...any way anyone can find taht picture online? id love to use it as a background

anyways, i think the pf/c is deff the biggest prob at this point. we can easily get house or price, so whats the rush to get a d point guard when we need a shot blocking c.....

i can see the argument, but with bibby on the team, its not like a backup pg would get enough time to make a huge impact on our overall defense.

I remember when Mike and Chris were on the Tonight show. Jay brought up the fact that they were completely screwed by the refs!

 

[funkykingston]

The reason I am not all that concerned about the backup PG position is two fold: (1) Bibby plays a ton of minutes, and he won't have his minutes cut severly simply because the team has a defensive minded backup for him and (2) Bibby is pretty durable. Before the stress fracture in his foot, he had played in all but two games in four seasons and he has only missed two games since that season.

A guy who plays 10-12 minutes behind Mike is not going to make a huge impact on the team. Now, if you had a guy who was a fierce defender at the point, who could also be an offensive sparkplug and who could play alongside Bibby in a small lineup well then maybe you think about spending part of the MLE to acquire him. That is precisely what Bobby Jackson was to this team before his injury and his impact on the team can't be overestimated. Of course, the only guy that I see on the market that could possibly have that impact is Earl Watson.

So, unless Petrie thinks Watson can bring what Jackson of three or four years ago did, then I think the MLE needs to be used to upgrade the frontcourt.

Finding a shotblocker and/or athletic rebounder who can start will have a MUCH bigger impact than a guy who will only be on the court for one fourth of the game.

 

[VF21]

I remember when Mike and Chris were on the Tonight show. Jay brought up the fact that they were completely screwed by the refs!

It wasn't Jay Leno who brought it up. It was the other guest on the show - actor James Garner - and he wouldn't let it go even after Webb and Bibby said they couldn't say anything without being fined.

 

[BobbyJ_for3!]

The reason I am not all that concerned about the backup PG position is two fold: (1) Bibby plays a ton of minutes, and he won't have his minutes cut severly simply because the team has a defensive minded backup for him and (2) Bibby is pretty durable. Before the stress fracture in his foot, he had played in all but two games in four seasons and he has only missed two games since that season.

A guy who plays 10-12 minutes behind Mike is not going to make a huge impact on the team. Now, if you had a guy who was a fierce defender at the point, who could also be an offensive sparkplug and who could play alongside Bibby in a small lineup well then maybe you think about spending part of the MLE to acquire him. That is precisely what Bobby Jackson was to this team before his injury and his impact on the team can't be overestimated. Of course, the only guy that I see on the market that could possibly have that impact is Earl Watson.

So, unless Petrie thinks Watson can bring what Jackson of three or four years ago did, then I think the MLE needs to be used to upgrade the frontcourt.

Finding a shotblocker and/or athletic rebounder who can start will have a MUCH bigger impact than a guy who will only be on the court for one fourth of the game.

I completely agree with this post.

The problem is finding that shotblocker who can have a big impact is gonna be easier said than done. At this point, a trade looks like the best option, but people won't just give away the kind of player we need. To me, we would have to lose one of the big 3 to get what we need. My first chioce of those is Peja, esp cuz I think Mo would do fine as our starting SF, plus we have 3 other guys who can play the position, at least.

It's just gonna be hard to get a shotblocker who can play big minutos.

 

[BobbyJ_for3!]

It wasn't Jay Leno who brought it up. It was the other guest on the show - actor James Garner - and he wouldn't let it go even after Webb and Bibby said they couldn't say anything without being fined.

yeah taht was good stuff...it was cool to see a celeb really said against the Lakers . Garner just interjected how much he agreed, it wasnt even like Leno asked him about it.

Bibby REALLY wanted to just talk and get fined, I could tell.

 

[Kings113]

Oh yeah, a PF is definitely the next priority... a back-up PG isn't to be a huge concern, but it is a secondary hole that needs and will be filled. Same for back-up C, probably.

How is Ronnie Price? I never saw a lot of him in the VSL. If he's good I bet it'll be him/Watson/Knight getting the role, not House.