One more move

[whozit]

I'm not sure and too lazy to look, but aren't there deadlines that player extensions have to be done by?

 

[whozit]

Well we can't, or at least shouldn't, let Bonzi make it to the offseason without an extension. Same principle as the Peeja situation -- that's just a GMing mistake. All the leverage shifts to the polayer, and they can walk and leave you high and dry. Unfortunately we only have a month to get it done, but we have to make a choice here and soon, and at least get some sort of verbal committment from Bonzi if that's the way we are going.

If it's even possible, a problem with rushing to a extension is not knowing how the mix will mix. If you lock him up long term now and the mix turns out to be more combustionable than expected, you have a big problem.

 

[Bricklayer]

If it's even possible, a problem with rushing to a extension is not knowing how the mix will mix. If you lock him up long term now and the mix turns out to be more combustionable than expected, you have a big problem.

Not so much -- Bonzi is an imminently tradeable asset as long as he's not being signed to a $10mil a year contract. Would have been nice to have more time, bt worst case you wrap the guy up and then trade him later.

 

[playmaker0017]

Like it or not, Bibby/Miller/Artest is the core now.

When I first got here - it was Peja/Miller/Bibby as the core. Now it's not.

Perhaps the core that everyone assumed was so great is not that solid.

In my opinion, the guys I would not move (unless they go whacko) are Reef/Bonzi/Artest --- of course I have no emotional attachment to Miller or Bibby, like a lot of long term Kings fans.

The reason I say that I would take Reef, Bonzi and Artest as my core is because each of them plays offense (1 legit 20PPG guy through 8 years, another is hovering around 20PPG and another is solid) each of them play defense (1 is an all-star defender, 1 is improving every year and is now quite dependable, and one is solid). They bring it night in and night out.

I can't say the same about Miller or Bibby. They are both terrible defenders and are about as streaky as they come.

The only reason to make Bibby/Miller your "core" is because they are good offensively -- but I just don't think they are THAT good offensively to overcome their deficiencies defensively.

Just my take.

 

[SacTownKid]

When I first got here - it was Peja/Miller/Bibby as the core. Now it's not.

Perhaps the core that everyone assumed was so great is not that solid.

In my opinion, the guys I would not move (unless they go whacko) are Reef/Bonzi/Artest --- of course I have no emotional attachment to Miller or Bibby, like a lot of long term Kings fans.

The reason I say that I would take Reef, Bonzi and Artest as my core is because each of them plays offense (1 legit 20PPG guy through 8 years, another is hovering around 20PPG and another is solid) each of them play defense (1 is an all-star defender, 1 is improving every year and is now quite dependable, and one is solid). They bring it night in and night out.

I can't say the same about Miller or Bibby. They are both terrible defenders and are about as streaky as they come.

The only reason to make Bibby/Miller your "core" is because they are good offensively -- but I just don't think they are THAT good offensively to overcome their deficiencies defensively.

Just my take.

There are reasons to not trade Reef, but I'd lean towards keeping Bibby/Miller, because of the 2 man game they play. Artest and Bonzi post up very well, and Bibby/Miller, at least on paper, compliment them better. And for those who think that Miller can't play PF need to look back a few years when he did indeed play PF alongside Vlade. He did very well.

Reef should become 6th man for this team. Just get out of his way when he comes off the bench.

I just really want to see what this team can do with Artest before I hear about dumping anyone. As Brick said, a Bonzi/Artest wing combo sounds unbelievable to me. If that doesn't shed some of our "soft" image, nothing will.

And if it blows up, we go where we were probably headed anyways.

 

[LPKingsFan]

When I first got here - it was Peja/Miller/Bibby as the core. Now it's not.

Perhaps the core that everyone assumed was so great is not that solid.

In my opinion, the guys I would not move (unless they go whacko) are Reef/Bonzi/Artest --- of course I have no emotional attachment to Miller or Bibby, like a lot of long term Kings fans.

The reason I say that I would take Reef, Bonzi and Artest as my core is because each of them plays offense (1 legit 20PPG guy through 8 years, another is hovering around 20PPG and another is solid) each of them play defense (1 is an all-star defender, 1 is improving every year and is now quite dependable, and one is solid). They bring it night in and night out.

I can't say the same about Miller or Bibby. They are both terrible defenders and are about as streaky as they come.

The only reason to make Bibby/Miller your "core" is because they are good offensively -- but I just don't think they are THAT good offensively to overcome their deficiencies defensively.

Just my take.

Perhaps. But Artest/Bonzi/SAR all are inside players. I think the "core" if there really is one, needs to reflect both some versitility and leadership. The Bibby/Miller/Artest core does that. Of course, that Bibby and Miller feed really well of each other doesn't hurt either. No, Artest does not solve the defensive deficiencies of Bibby and Brad, but I think it would be more effective to pick up a defensive role player or two around them than to do otherwise.

 

[West_Gunslinger16]

Uh, did anybody mentioned Theo Ratliff? When I watched the Portland/Cleveland game I thought this guy was good at rebounding and offensive. And defense, he was good at it.

 

[playmaker0017]

Uh, did anybody mentioned Theo Ratliff? When I watched the Portland/Cleveland game I thought this guy was good at rebounding and offensive. And defense, he was good at it.

Theo Ratliff is a pretty sub-par defender and a terrible rebounder.

He'll clean up the middle and initiate fast breaks with some monster rejections ... but for the most part he's a poor man-on defender and gets pushed around. Because he's always looking for the ball, he's usually out of position on the glass.

The better pickup off of the Blazers would be Joel Przybilla.

 

[Yoda]

Theo Ratliff is a pretty sub-par defender

First Bibby isnt a playmaker and now this...please watch basketball and then speak.

 

[playmaker0017]

First Bibby isnt a playmaker and now this...please watch basketball and then speak.

First, I don't appreciate the tone.

Second, I've watched Theo Ratliff for 4 years. He's not a very good man on defender.

Go ask people in Atlanta. Go ask people in Portland.

He's a highlight reel of blocks ... but a sub-par defender overall. Blocks don't equate to a good defender.

It's like how everyone wet their pants about Stromile Swift. I said then, and I say now ... he's a poor defender that blocks a lot of shots.

As for Bibby - maybe he is a playmaker... I've never seen it.

 

[KevinMartin'sShotDoctor]

I like Theo Ratliff, but he's not far from a career-ending injury. In fact, I think he's already had several. As it is, he's pretty similar to Skinner, just better looking. He'd sit next to Adelman.

The Nuggets trade won't happen. K-Mart is too expensive. I think Miller is (at least on occasion) better than Bibby at everything except long-range shooting, and I really think the Kings want to keep spreading the floor.

I think Wilcox will fade, but some have been high on him since college. There are plenty of decent bigs available. But are they worth trading for and would they even be played?

Darko's a bigger risk than Artest. He could easily be the next Skita, and I think this isn't the team to figure that out. They'll still want a lot for him, too. The Hawks offered Harrington.

Who would we trade? I would feel bad trading everyone but Hart.

Is Jayson Williams making a comeback? And driving his own car?

 

[Alacron]

Obviously a star big man would be our final piece in this puzzle, maybe we could get Chris Webber from 1998?

I still have a man-crush on Elton Brand, though I don't see that realistically happening, and anyone of KG/Duncan caliber is basically untouchable.

But here's the prob as I see it: Yes we need a rebounding/shotblocking PF, and there are some of those around, but they are usually mediocre offensively. Those that can play offense as well are star players like those mentioned above.

We already have a very good rebounder/shotblocker who even has a half hook and is willing to dunk. However, if Adelman won't play him, why would he play any other defensive/glass cleaning specialist if he can't hit the 20-ft. jumper consistently? (See: Greg Ostertag vs. Jerome James in the 2005 playoffs matchup that never happened because Greg was sitting on the bench while Brad was getting owned by the Trashman)
~~

 

[MrBiggs]

First Bibby isnt a playmaker and now this...please watch basketball and then speak.

What basketball are you watching? Ratliff is a horrible defender. Just because he can block shots, doesn't mean he's a good defender.

 

[acisking]

When I first got here - it was Peja/Miller/Bibby as the core. Now it's not.

Perhaps the core that everyone assumed was so great is not that solid.

In my opinion, the guys I would not move (unless they go whacko) are Reef/Bonzi/Artest --- of course I have no emotional attachment to Miller or Bibby, like a lot of long term Kings fans.

The reason I say that I would take Reef, Bonzi and Artest as my core is because each of them plays offense (1 legit 20PPG guy through 8 years, another is hovering around 20PPG and another is solid) each of them play defense (1 is an all-star defender, 1 is improving every year and is now quite dependable, and one is solid). They bring it night in and night out.

I can't say the same about Miller or Bibby. They are both terrible defenders and are about as streaky as they come.

The only reason to make Bibby/Miller your "core" is because they are good offensively -- but I just don't think they are THAT good offensively to overcome their deficiencies defensively.

Just my take.

You have legitamate points...but I think you are forgetting one important thing. In past years, the Kings always had an abundance of jumpshooting and we searched desperately for a post threat. Now we have acquired three very solid post players in Reef, Bonzi, and Artest. If we give away Mike and Brad, then the reverse of our old situation will happen: too many post players with no jumpshooters to feed off of them. Although posting is much touted among posters here, people need to consider that a post up play is predicated almost entirely on one-on-one offense. While it is certainly an asset, it would not be nearly as effective if a team doesn't have jumpshooters to feed off a double teams in the post (see Indiana this year, where the ball is stagnantly in Jermaine's possesion). Keeping Mike and Brad, allows the team to do three things on offense....1) post up Bonzi, Reef, and Artest 2) kick out to jumshooters like Mike and Brad if double teams arrive and 3) play the two man game with Mike and Brad which seems to be working very well. That kind of offensive variety puts the Kings in very good position to compete with the elite in the West, provided they acquire some more defensive additions at some point.

 

[Warhawk]

Re-sign Bonzi. NOW. DO IT! Before the trade deadline, so we don't lose him. Provided the salary requested is reasonable, of course.

 

[PFFFT!!]

Soooo, we wait until one of those 5 starting five guys start to suck, so that their value goes down and we can't get anything for them? Makes perfect sense. Why don't we try and trade Miller or Bibby or KT (whos been playing better) for someone good what we REALLY need thats more physical, fast, and younger?

 

[Kings113]

The Bulls, as a team, have sucked this year, and allegedly everyone is available except Heinrich. Chandler would be fantastic for this team. Defensive minded PF who doesn't need to score to impact a game. Scott Skiles had the same thing happen in Phoenix. His team caught fire, then quit on him very rapidly. He comes from the Riley school of coaching with none of the Riley charisma.

Bulls haven't sucked or been horrible since their 8-game losing streak. Skiles was going crazy with line-ups around then and finally sensed up to a mostly obvious and right one. Also anyone who follows the Bulls knows Chandler's been playing well the last 5 games.

As far as rebounding/shot-blocking bigs go, I'd take one of these:

Pryzbilla/Cato/Battie/Etan Thomas/Gadzuric.

I think we keep Garcia, and I'd like for us to.

 

[nbrans]

You have legitamate points...but I think you are forgetting one important thing. In past years, the Kings always had an abundance of jumpshooting and we searched desperately for a post threat. Now we have acquired three very solid post players in Reef, Bonzi, and Artest. If we give away Mike and Brad, then the reverse of our old situation will happen: too many post players with no jumpshooters to feed off of them. Although posting is much touted among posters here, people need to consider that a post up play is predicated almost entirely on one-on-one offense. While it is certainly an asset, it would not be nearly as effective if a team doesn't have jumpshooters to feed off a double teams in the post (see Indiana this year, where the ball is stagnantly in Jermaine's possesion). Keeping Mike and Brad, allows the team to do three things on offense....1) post up Bonzi, Reef, and Artest 2) kick out to jumshooters like Mike and Brad if double teams arrive and 3) play the two man game with Mike and Brad which seems to be working very well. That kind of offensive variety puts the Kings in very good position to compete with the elite in the West, provided they acquire some more defensive additions at some point.

These are all really good points. Offensively at least, Brad and Bibby have suddenly become much more valuable, even essential. Even Reef's offensive value is higher because he can either spot up for jump shots when Artest and Bonzi are down low or take it down there himself.

It's really going to be something to see the offense when the players know all the sets and things really get cranking.

The question though, is whether the offense is going to be good enough to compensate for the defensive and rebounding lapses. What the Kings really need is a defensive/rebounding monster who can also play on the perimeter and hit jump shots, which would be that tantalizing missing piece that compliments everyone. Sadly, those types of players (Garnett, Bosh) are terribly hard to come by.

 

[yanon]

nbrans,

Having either KT or SAR playing with Brad is just not going to get the job done against good teams in most games. Since we can't have one of those top tier guys, I think it would be a wise idea to trade away one of our offensive-minded big men plus extra pieces for a good defensive big guy who can rebound well.

 

[Kings113]

I agree, yanon.

And I expect at least another move.

 

[PFFFT!!]

Would anyone do a Pierce for Bonzi + draft pick?

Artest
Pierce
Miller
Bibby
SAR

 

[chelle]

Would anyone do a Pierce for Bonzi + draft pick?

Artest
Pierce
Miller
Bibby
SAR

Not me. We need Bonzi's defense.

QUESTION: Who out there is still "on the block" that we know of that we could use?

 

[PFFFT!!]

Not me. We need Bonzi's defense.

QUESTION: Who out there is still "on the block" that we know of that we could use?

I agree, but Pierce has more "all around" skills. Im almost certain that no one will complain about this trade. Having a Pierce/Bibby/Artest combo looks pretty damn good. Pierce will create the double teams so that Artest can work the paint.

 

[playmaker0017]

Would anyone do a Pierce for Bonzi + draft pick?

Artest
Pierce
Miller
Bibby
SAR

No, I believe that would be subtraction by addition.

Pierce is talented, but we don't need another guy in the starting lineup that needs 17 shots. The thing with Bonzi is that he is a garbage man. He can be efficient by being off-the-ball and getting loose boards.

In fact, he's better that way than when he is fed the ball.

Pierce NEEDS the ball to be effective.

I wouldn't do that with this team.

 

[Wuster]

No, I believe that would be subtraction by addition.

Pierce is talented, but we don't need another guy in the starting lineup that needs 17 shots. The thing with Bonzi is that he is a garbage man. He can be efficient by being off-the-ball and getting loose boards.

In fact, he's better that way than when he is fed the ball.

Pierce NEEDS the ball to be effective.

I wouldn't do that with this team.

We just traded a guy that needs the ball to be effective. Agreed Pierce is a talented player, but not the right fit for this team.

 

[ForlornKing]

I say keep 1 of our offense only Bigs and trade for 1 defensive big.

So SAR or Brad?

I say SAR. Brad is the glue to this offense and Artest's main buddy. Trade SAR for a shot-blocking, rebounder, and we are set.

 

[BMiller52]

I say keep 1 of our offense only Bigs and trade for 1 defensive big.

So SAR or Brad?

I say SAR. Brad is the glue to this offense and Artest's main buddy. Trade SAR for a shot-blocking, rebounder, and we are set.

I agree with you.

 

[Kings113]

QUESTION: Who out there is still "on the block" that we know of that we could use?

Earl Watson probably still is, Tony Delk (older, but yeah, said he'd like a new address earlier in Jan. and has been working out/practicing, not being played though), Reggie Evans indeed, Kelvin Cato? (might be injured, or just isn't getting time, either has been the case this year, not sure right now though),

There are also Trevor Ariza, Marc Jackson, Jeff McInnis, Tim Thomas, Eric Williams (wants out of Toronto) but I don't think we need them.

 

[ForlornKing]

Earl Watson probably still is, Tony Delk (older, but yeah, said he'd like a new address earlier in Jan. and has been working out/practicing, not being played though), Reggie Evans indeed, Kelvin Cato? (might be injured, or just isn't getting time, either has been the case this year, not sure right now though),

There are also Trevor Ariza, Marc Jackson, Jeff McInnis, Tim Thomas, Eric Williams (wants out of Toronto) but I don't think we need them.

Ariza isn't on the block.

 

[ESP47]

Why are you guys wanting all these no named big guys who have never accomplished anything, or even had their teams accomplish anything? These guys may have size, but theres a very good reason most people have never heard of them.