Old Trade Thread (no longer need to post all trades here)
- Thread starter CaminoChaos
- Start date
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Here's an expanded Peja for Magloire deal.
Well, the Kings now have a much more defensive oriented center, which helps us...A LOT...Slide Brad over to the 4, and SAR over to the 3, and all of a sudden we may not be the softest team in the history of basketball anymore.
Bonzi---We all know what he can bring.
SAR---Had his best years as a SF...Soft against PF's, but against SF's? Intriguing.
Miller---He'll be out point power forward...Still a defensive liability, but we can live with it, as long as we use him to run our offense.
Magloire---All of a sudden we have a force down low...Plays D, and also rebounds.
Cisco---Moves to his original SG position...Plays a Doug Christie role?
Welsch---Now our 'Fred Hoiberg' type player...Stand around and jack threes.
Thomas---Pound for pound, probably the best rebounder on the team.
Skinner---Would be a nice backup for Magloire...Once Jamal goes to the bench, we wouldn't lose much.
Martin---Falls out of the rotation completly...I say he's DL material...Send him there, get the hitch out of his shot, build his confidence against weaker players, and bring him back next year as our backup 2-guard...Hopefully him a Cisco will have bettered their outside shots by then, because if this did indeed happen, we need very much shooting help.
Milwaukee does it because they now have a deadly two-headed monster patrolling the three point line...Peja and Redd?! Nice! Also, there frontcourt is stacked with Bogut/Gadzurich/Smith...Maybe Sampson develops, and could eventualy be a sutable backup for Bugut.
Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Kings Get...
Jamaal Magloire... 8.7ppg, 10.2rpg, 0.7apg
Jiri Welsch... 3.8ppg, 1.3rpg, 0.6apg
Kings Get...
Bucks Get...
Peja Stojakovic... 18.0ppg, 4.6 rpg, 2.2apg
Jamal Sampson... 0.0ppg, 1.0rpg, 0.0apg
Change in team outlook...
-5.5ppg, +5.9rpg, -0.9apg
-5.5ppg, +5.9rpg, -0.9apg
Well, the Kings now have a much more defensive oriented center, which helps us...A LOT...Slide Brad over to the 4, and SAR over to the 3, and all of a sudden we may not be the softest team in the history of basketball anymore.
Starters...
Bibby---Well...Still not much of a toughie.Bonzi---We all know what he can bring.
SAR---Had his best years as a SF...Soft against PF's, but against SF's? Intriguing.
Miller---He'll be out point power forward...Still a defensive liability, but we can live with it, as long as we use him to run our offense.
Magloire---All of a sudden we have a force down low...Plays D, and also rebounds.
Bench...
Hart---He's just himself...A few reliable minutes where he plays some D.Cisco---Moves to his original SG position...Plays a Doug Christie role?
Welsch---Now our 'Fred Hoiberg' type player...Stand around and jack threes.
Thomas---Pound for pound, probably the best rebounder on the team.
Skinner---Would be a nice backup for Magloire...Once Jamal goes to the bench, we wouldn't lose much.
Martin---Falls out of the rotation completly...I say he's DL material...Send him there, get the hitch out of his shot, build his confidence against weaker players, and bring him back next year as our backup 2-guard...Hopefully him a Cisco will have bettered their outside shots by then, because if this did indeed happen, we need very much shooting help.
Milwaukee does it because they now have a deadly two-headed monster patrolling the three point line...Peja and Redd?! Nice! Also, there frontcourt is stacked with Bogut/Gadzurich/Smith...Maybe Sampson develops, and could eventualy be a sutable backup for Bugut.
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CruzDude
Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Artest makes $6.5m this year and is signed thru 08/09. Kenny, Brian and Corliss each make about $6m and Kenny is signed thru 09/10!!!! So if Indiana sees Kenny straight across for Artest with maybe a draft choice thrown in, who does Artest displace out of the starting lineup? SAR? who is true power forward. Artest is SF who scores AND rebounds. He would draw double teams and that would help Peja.
I don't think he ends up here tho'. Walsh is going to send him to Atlanta or Toronto, somewhere his team is not a threat to the Pacers, now and for some time to come.
I don't think he ends up here tho'. Walsh is going to send him to Atlanta or Toronto, somewhere his team is not a threat to the Pacers, now and for some time to come.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
CruzDude said:
As a team in the other conference, I thiink we are even considerably less a threat than Atlanta or Toronto. There is literally only one series we could ever meet in, and we only play 2 games a year otherwise. Is why, of course, that so often top level players are traded cross-conference.
WalMatt23
G-League
CruzDude said:
If Walsh wants to send him to a team that isn't a threat, why would he keep him in the East? Teams usually deal out of the conference so they only have to see the player being dealt twice a year instead of four times a year (see Shaq to Miami).
Artest is making a big deal about going to the Knicks, such a big deal that other teams may back off. Why would a team trade for a malcontent who openly says he wants to play somewhere else? That would really suck for the Pacers because they wouldn't have much leverage when dealing him.
If the Kings did make a move for him, I would like to see them make a trade that included Peja & one of the Philly Three and brought us back Danny Granger and maybe Fred Jones. That way we could add some depth to that bench of ours.
I have a couple questions to Kings fans who don't like a Ron Artest for Peja deal!
Do you like watching T-Mac single handedly lead rockets to victory?
Do you like watching Lebron James score 12 points in the 4th and lead his team to victory? Do you like watching Kobe Bryant scores 30+ every time he plays us? Do you like Jason Richardson doing the same thing? If you answered YES to any of those then you are a moron, and not a TRUE Kings fan.
Ron Artest would more than solve those problems for us, he would be the guy that would shut down the Kobes,T Macs, Lebrons, Carters, Richardsons, Ginolbilis, Allens, Pierces and every other good 2 or 3 that tears up the Kings every time they play us. When he played against lebron, he caused lebron to miss his 1st 9 shots, score only 19 pts, and finish like 6-20 with 6 TO's. This is for a guy who is averaging over 30/gm and shooting close to 49% from the field. Now answer me this? Could peja do the same exact thing? If you think yes, then once again you are a MORON! Ohh let me add in Ron had 21 pts that game, shot 6-12, 5rbs, 1st, and 1 block. That is just one example but Ron provides a 26(younger)yr old who can score, and shut down the opposing teams best player. He is under contract for 3 more seasons, and peja is gone after this season. I like seeing peja going 6-9 for 3pts just like you do, but when that is all you specialize in, and you choke in the 4th quarter and clutch situations every season in the NBA, it is time to make a change.
Artest in my opinion would make a difference in 3-4 pts a game for the opposition, so instead of them averaging like 99-100 against us they would be like 95-96, while our pts/gm would stay the same or even increase. We are getting younger, way better defensively, they cxl each other out offensively, and yes Artest attitude would mesh with the Kings, bc Aldeman is a players coach, unlike the micromanging carlisle. It all comes down to if Petrie has the balls to trade Peja, and if he doesn't then there is no hope.
Do you like watching T-Mac single handedly lead rockets to victory?
Do you like watching Lebron James score 12 points in the 4th and lead his team to victory? Do you like watching Kobe Bryant scores 30+ every time he plays us? Do you like Jason Richardson doing the same thing? If you answered YES to any of those then you are a moron, and not a TRUE Kings fan.
Ron Artest would more than solve those problems for us, he would be the guy that would shut down the Kobes,T Macs, Lebrons, Carters, Richardsons, Ginolbilis, Allens, Pierces and every other good 2 or 3 that tears up the Kings every time they play us. When he played against lebron, he caused lebron to miss his 1st 9 shots, score only 19 pts, and finish like 6-20 with 6 TO's. This is for a guy who is averaging over 30/gm and shooting close to 49% from the field. Now answer me this? Could peja do the same exact thing? If you think yes, then once again you are a MORON! Ohh let me add in Ron had 21 pts that game, shot 6-12, 5rbs, 1st, and 1 block. That is just one example but Ron provides a 26(younger)yr old who can score, and shut down the opposing teams best player. He is under contract for 3 more seasons, and peja is gone after this season. I like seeing peja going 6-9 for 3pts just like you do, but when that is all you specialize in, and you choke in the 4th quarter and clutch situations every season in the NBA, it is time to make a change.
Artest in my opinion would make a difference in 3-4 pts a game for the opposition, so instead of them averaging like 99-100 against us they would be like 95-96, while our pts/gm would stay the same or even increase. We are getting younger, way better defensively, they cxl each other out offensively, and yes Artest attitude would mesh with the Kings, bc Aldeman is a players coach, unlike the micromanging carlisle. It all comes down to if Petrie has the balls to trade Peja, and if he doesn't then there is no hope.
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AleksandarN
Starter
Kings2805 said:
For your information it is not one player that single handedly causes us to lose games. It is our lack of defenders in all positions. You make it sound like it is the SGs and SFs of the league that kill us and causes us to lose games. It is not the cause. Yes Ron is one of the best man to man defenders in the league but he is not a very good a help defender. Let me ask you who will defend the other four positions? J=He does not solve our rebounding problems either.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
AleksandarN said:
Er...what???
Ron can not fix our interior wussiness. But the difference between having no top defenders and having one, mayeb THE one, in the entire league is immense. Its like the Doug factor. I can virtually guarantee Brad and Bonzi would respond to it and all of a sudden you have gotten considerably better defensively. SAR...maybe not. too classy. Too aloof. Not really going to ramp it up. Bibby...let's nto go there.
But having somebody there who makes the rest fo teh team feel guilty for not defending is HUGE. Especially if he might go nuts and rip out their spleens the next time they played it soft.
AleksandarN
Starter
Bricklayer said:Er...what???
Ron can not fix our interior wussiness. But the difference between having no top defenders and having one, mayeb THE one, in the entire league is immense. Its like the Doug factor. I can virtually guarantee Brad and Bonzi would respond to it and all of a sudden you have gotten considerably better defensively. SAR...maybe not. too classy. Too aloof. Not really going to ramp it up. Bibby...let's nto go there.
But having somebody there who makes the rest fo teh team feel guilty for not defending is HUGE. Especially if he might go nuts and rip out their spleens the next time they played it soft.
Yes I go by what I said. Are you saying his help defense is good? I know he is the best man to man defender in the league but his help defense is not up to par.
Also how would someone quantify a statement like that
BigWaxer
Starter
The ONLY negative I see in getting Artest is that he is a tad nuts.
IMO this deal HAS to be made. Do I want a player that plays 150% every night the entire game and is not afraid to ball, is a defensive stud as well as someone that has a damn good offensive game which I think is only going to improve... - VS - We stay the course, this season will get flushed down as well as the next one until we can get a superstar caliber player. We hope we get a good draw in the lottery or we barely make the playoffs and then no lottery.
Trust me we are not a playoff team no matter how many of you are feeling great after these 2 wins (mind you both teams had losing records also.) If we do happen to make the playoffs they are not going anywhere anyway. Not to mention when the off-season comes and Peja leaves (he will), Bonzi is on a 1yr right? Ya not looking good, this is the best player we could possibly hope for (just speaking talent) to get for Peja.
We need a player that can step into a superstar caliber player. Here is our chance; these chances don't come by a lot. Sure Ron may self destruct, may go nuts and may not grow into that "superstar" as I call him and one day just quit and go home. IMO the risk is worth it. It doesn't place us in any worse position then we are now due to his contract. If he wants to leave in a few years we may have a great piece to use in a trade before then.
His offensive numbers are sure to improve in this system, he will be the featured player and now we have someone that can actually guard the James and Kobe's of the world.
Let me guess we hold out until KG becomes an option. Trust me we don't have enough to get KG, put that dream away. If we want a ring we need a "superstar" no way around it. Not saying Ron is not saying Ron will not become one. Thing is he has the chance and potential to be a star on both ends of the floor. I sure know we have nobody right now that is or has a chance to be that person.
If I am GM this trade is done yesterday and I may even add another piece to it.
IMO this deal HAS to be made. Do I want a player that plays 150% every night the entire game and is not afraid to ball, is a defensive stud as well as someone that has a damn good offensive game which I think is only going to improve... - VS - We stay the course, this season will get flushed down as well as the next one until we can get a superstar caliber player. We hope we get a good draw in the lottery or we barely make the playoffs and then no lottery.
Trust me we are not a playoff team no matter how many of you are feeling great after these 2 wins (mind you both teams had losing records also.) If we do happen to make the playoffs they are not going anywhere anyway. Not to mention when the off-season comes and Peja leaves (he will), Bonzi is on a 1yr right? Ya not looking good, this is the best player we could possibly hope for (just speaking talent) to get for Peja.
We need a player that can step into a superstar caliber player. Here is our chance; these chances don't come by a lot. Sure Ron may self destruct, may go nuts and may not grow into that "superstar" as I call him and one day just quit and go home. IMO the risk is worth it. It doesn't place us in any worse position then we are now due to his contract. If he wants to leave in a few years we may have a great piece to use in a trade before then.
His offensive numbers are sure to improve in this system, he will be the featured player and now we have someone that can actually guard the James and Kobe's of the world.
Let me guess we hold out until KG becomes an option. Trust me we don't have enough to get KG, put that dream away. If we want a ring we need a "superstar" no way around it. Not saying Ron is not saying Ron will not become one. Thing is he has the chance and potential to be a star on both ends of the floor. I sure know we have nobody right now that is or has a chance to be that person.
If I am GM this trade is done yesterday and I may even add another piece to it.
DocHolliday
Starter
This is kind of crazy. We might know within a week if this is going to go down. The Pacers have put Artest on the inactive list for the rest of the week while they look for opportunities. I've thought about this trade for a long time. To see it come to fruition would be wow...just wow. It would be bitter sweet. You have to like Peja, because he's such a likeable guy. But, that might be part of his problem. He's too nice. Great shooter nonetheless. It will sting a little bit if he comes back at some point and hangs 6 of 9 from the arc on us, although if we have a guy that's just all over his grits that may not happen.
hoops4kings
Bench
On the radio today, Napear said that there has been no Artest talk at all within the Kings org. He said that he doesn't think Petrie will take a chance on a player that could set the team back 10 years if it turned out to be a disaster. He thinks Artest is too "out there" for Petrie's taste.
I don't see this trade going down.
I don't see this trade going down.
BigWaxer
Starter
How would he set the team back 10 years? Thats the part I don't understand. This is a low risk deal, worst case is he sets it back that season he goes nuts in.
What would the difference be if Peja left and we get nothing return in the offseason because IMO that is what Petrie is gambling with right now. I think the set-backs offset each other.
Brick has always said it and it's more clear to me now that Petrie's love for Peja is going to kill us. Long run and short term.
What would the difference be if Peja left and we get nothing return in the offseason because IMO that is what Petrie is gambling with right now. I think the set-backs offset each other.
Brick has always said it and it's more clear to me now that Petrie's love for Peja is going to kill us. Long run and short term.
DocHolliday
Starter
Yeah the way I look at it Peja goes at the end of the season for nothing, unless we can work out a sign and trade that Peja agrees with, since he doesn't have to do that as an unrestricted free agent.
I don't think other people will be willing to give him more than we will, since the Kings have been able to judge his wroth over a 7 year period. So, we trade him now and get the BEST player we could get for him in Artest. He's underpaid for his talent level at this point also. And we get a great player for a minimum of the rest of this season and 2 more. Not a bad deal. Honestly I think he straightens up and fly's right when he comes here, as long as the media and all of us give him a chance. We've done it before with this system and this coaching staff, and we can do it again.
Webber didn't want to play here period when he first got traded here.
I don't think other people will be willing to give him more than we will, since the Kings have been able to judge his wroth over a 7 year period. So, we trade him now and get the BEST player we could get for him in Artest. He's underpaid for his talent level at this point also. And we get a great player for a minimum of the rest of this season and 2 more. Not a bad deal. Honestly I think he straightens up and fly's right when he comes here, as long as the media and all of us give him a chance. We've done it before with this system and this coaching staff, and we can do it again.
Webber didn't want to play here period when he first got traded here.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Here's another one...This one doesn't involve Peja, though!
Kings Get...
Etan Thomas...4.2ppg, 4.0rpg, 0.3apg
Calvin Booth... 1.1ppg, 1.1rpg, 0.1apg
Wizards Get...
Kenny Thomas... 6.2ppg, 4.0rpg, 1.2apg
Jamal Sampson... 0.0ppg, 1.0rpg, 0.0apg.
Change in Team Outlook...-0.9ppg, +0.1rpg, -0.9apg...
Methinks both Kenny and Etan could use a change of scenery...Etan seems to have fallen out of flavor in Washington, only getting 14 minutes game...Etan is a fierce rebounder who can block some shots...His offensive game...Not quite as good.
As for Booth...Booth is a man who has proven he can block shots consistantly...Bring him in behind Miller for a few minutes here and there...Stop the parade inside the lane!
PG: Bibby/Hart/Price
SG: Bonzi/Martin
SF: Peja/Cisco/Willaimson
PF: SAR/Thomas/Williamson
C: Miller/Booth/Skinner(Expendible)/Thomas
Now with Skinner being expendable, we trade him for a designated bench shooter/scorer to come of the bench at any of the 1-3 positions...
Change in Team Outlook...-0.9ppg, +0.1rpg, -0.9apg...
Methinks both Kenny and Etan could use a change of scenery...Etan seems to have fallen out of flavor in Washington, only getting 14 minutes game...Etan is a fierce rebounder who can block some shots...His offensive game...Not quite as good.
As for Booth...Booth is a man who has proven he can block shots consistantly...Bring him in behind Miller for a few minutes here and there...Stop the parade inside the lane!
PG: Bibby/Hart/Price
SG: Bonzi/Martin
SF: Peja/Cisco/Willaimson
PF: SAR/Thomas/Williamson
C: Miller/Booth/Skinner(Expendible)/Thomas
Now with Skinner being expendable, we trade him for a designated bench shooter/scorer to come of the bench at any of the 1-3 positions...
piksi
Hall of Famer
DocHolliday said:
I had issues with post injury Webber but I would never ever compare Webber with Artest.
Let me ask You a question
20 years from now
How will Kings fans remember Webber ?
How will Pacers fans remember Artest ?
Webber did not want to come and he would have left if any some other team offered as much money (obviously impossible). And we can say many things about Webber but we have to recognize the impact of CW in all the segments - not just Basketball.
Ron who ?
LPKingsFan
All-Star
hoops4kings said:
Which, unfortunately, doesn't suprise me. They played it safe this summer, and look where it got us. You would think they had learned their lesson.
BigWaxer
Starter
I could make the arguement the other way. Carlisle is known for being a complete Hard A, heck he calls EVERY single offensive play, he needs to micro-manage every little thing that goes on in the game. For a nut like Artest that is just one more cracker to make him snap. Lot of problems are being reported in that locker room with chemestry and none of them are really pointing to Artest. He was doing great until the Barkley rumor. I am not in the locker room so hard to say either way.
I am not comparing Webb/Artests situation like another poster did but I wanted to respond to a ? you had.
What is GS or the Wizards going to think of Cwebb. After he left it was generally reported that he destroyed those teams and that he was a team cancer. Again I am not comparing the two just saying things can be different in a different situation. Sacto seems to heal most wounds. Tmass and OP are the only two here that went all nutty on us.
Then my questions.
We pass on Artest, which is fine but then what do we have? The soft poor playing basketball team we see now. I don't see a lot of help or options out there. I think basketball wise Artest is the best talent we can get for an equal trade with Peja.
I do compare this situation to the TO situation. Its a case were the Eagles knew what they were getting. TO did the exact same thing in SF and rinse and repeat. I would assume thats going to happen again, Artest seems to be the type that needs attention and I don't think he has learned his lesson just yet. He is always going to want more attention, more press whatever. As soon as the fans at Arco boo him he might meet everyone at the door and kick everyones tails!
I see both sides of this, have had a lot of problems seeing which side to take and have read a lot of the Pacers boards to get a feel on their opinions. I am at the point that we need to do something. Deal me 2 cards hopefully AA and not 72. I like to gamble and I say shuffle up and deal....
I am not comparing Webb/Artests situation like another poster did but I wanted to respond to a ? you had.
What is GS or the Wizards going to think of Cwebb. After he left it was generally reported that he destroyed those teams and that he was a team cancer. Again I am not comparing the two just saying things can be different in a different situation. Sacto seems to heal most wounds. Tmass and OP are the only two here that went all nutty on us.
Then my questions.
We pass on Artest, which is fine but then what do we have? The soft poor playing basketball team we see now. I don't see a lot of help or options out there. I think basketball wise Artest is the best talent we can get for an equal trade with Peja.
I do compare this situation to the TO situation. Its a case were the Eagles knew what they were getting. TO did the exact same thing in SF and rinse and repeat. I would assume thats going to happen again, Artest seems to be the type that needs attention and I don't think he has learned his lesson just yet. He is always going to want more attention, more press whatever. As soon as the fans at Arco boo him he might meet everyone at the door and kick everyones tails!
I see both sides of this, have had a lot of problems seeing which side to take and have read a lot of the Pacers boards to get a feel on their opinions. I am at the point that we need to do something. Deal me 2 cards hopefully AA and not 72. I like to gamble and I say shuffle up and deal....
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Kings113 said:Well now, Grant Napear isn't Geoff, is he?
No, and he's known to be wrong. On the other hand he does travel with the Kings Assistant GM/head gopher as his color man, so you always have to wonder.
chelle
Starter
Folsom Al said:
Principles DO NOT win championships, but I would still choose principles.
From a basketball standpoint, Artest would make us better in the short term. In the long term, we will lose much more than games with him on our team.
Personally, I have always thought Artest bore more of the "punishment" for the brawl than he should have, while others did not get enough. However, he has whole heartedly EARNED his reputation of being more of a distraction than a help. He has won no championships that I know of at this point. He HAS cost his team many games and I am not even including the brawl suspensions.
There have been many players that have rehabilated their careers and images wearing a King's uniform. Bonzi is our latest suprise. With that being said, I would be beyond disappointed if we trade for him.
Some have said that if we let Peja walk this summer, we will get nothing in return. Do we honestly think that Artest would show more LOYALITY to us when his deal is up? He wants to go back to the east coast. He offers less chances than Peja with resigning or trading possibilities.
Until he said that he wanted to be traded, I MAY have given him a small benefit of the doubt with bringing him here. Given how Indiana stood by him last season, to say what he did shows a COMPLETE lack of loyality and respect. I DO NOT WANT HIM HERE.
piksi said:
Kind of like taking a week off b/c your pinky hurts right?
Or how about grabbing 2-4 boards when you're 6'10"?
What about doing nothing about draining shots all night until magically disappearing in the 4th??
Peja is a complementary player. The Kings need him to be a #1 option but he never will be. The Pacers need him in the complementary role he's perfect for.
The Kings would have a 3 year trial period with Artest who could be the #1 they so desperately need and the tough defense that's been lacking ever since Doug was traded.
