F
Fillmoe
Guest
any GM of any team would not hesitate to send their star/stars packing to Minny for KG...... the only exception would prolly be Tim Duncan and LeBron James.........
OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)
- Thread starter CaminoChaos
- Start date
My doable recipe for sucess.
Peja and Mike for KG
S&T Mobley for S&T Redd
Thomas/Skinner/Pick for Boozer
MLE to Kwame Brown
Lineup:
Bobby/House
Redd/Evans/Martin
KG/Corliss/Evans
Boozer/Songaila
Miller/Brown
If Minny is going to trade KG, nows the time. Will they get a better offer than 2 all-stars? I doubt it. If KG wants out, Minny does this.
Redd is going to walk, and he wants to play for a contender, if the KG trade goes down first, Redd would love to come here. The Bucks would have to pull the trigger. Mobley wants to be the leader of a team. This team has some talent for the East and needs someone to create their own shot. It's perfect for him.
Utah needs bodies and has soured on Boozer. They also need youth and the pick helps there.
Kwame needs a system to shine in. He's a good defender and is still very very young. He's worth the MLE on the potential to still be a star once he gets out of a market where the expectations are too high.
Thoughts?
Peja and Mike for KG
S&T Mobley for S&T Redd
Thomas/Skinner/Pick for Boozer
MLE to Kwame Brown
Lineup:
Bobby/House
Redd/Evans/Martin
KG/Corliss/Evans
Boozer/Songaila
Miller/Brown
If Minny is going to trade KG, nows the time. Will they get a better offer than 2 all-stars? I doubt it. If KG wants out, Minny does this.
Redd is going to walk, and he wants to play for a contender, if the KG trade goes down first, Redd would love to come here. The Bucks would have to pull the trigger. Mobley wants to be the leader of a team. This team has some talent for the East and needs someone to create their own shot. It's perfect for him.
Utah needs bodies and has soured on Boozer. They also need youth and the pick helps there.
Kwame needs a system to shine in. He's a good defender and is still very very young. He's worth the MLE on the potential to still be a star once he gets out of a market where the expectations are too high.
Thoughts?
Well personally, I don't see a whole re-wroking of the team as neccesary. We've got three quality starters, now we just need to find the right role players to surround them with. Here's the plan I came up with. Basically I was looking to get defensive-minded players at SG/SF and PF/C.
Trade #1: Memphis/Sacramento/Milwaukee
Shane Battier (SG/SF) - 4.9 million, 6 years remaining to SAC
Jason Williams (PG) - 7.5 million, 3 years remaining to MIL
for
Kenny Thomas (SF/PF) - 6 million, 5 years remaining to MIL
Bobby Jackson (PG/SG) - 3.4 million, 1 year remaining to MEM
for
Desmond Mason (SG/SF) - 7.2 million, 2 years remaining to MEM
Calvin Booth (PF/C) - 6.3 million, 2 years remaining to SAC
[NOTE: This trade works on RealGM if you match the numbers.] I spent a long time working this deal out and I think it benefits everybody. Memphis wants to lose JWill, and Bobby J could be their PG. They're also upgrading with Desmond Mason. I don't really know what Milwaukee wants, but they seem to need a PG. And Kenny Thomas would give them a real SF where they've got a SG playing that spot now. And we are giving up Kenny Thomas' contract for another huge contract with Battier, but I think he helps us a lot more where we need help - perimeter defense. Calvin Booth gives us some more size up front, and Bobby J isn't going to stay beyond next year anyway. Oh and it also leaves us with a capable starting SF if Peja decides to go.
Trade #2: Portland/Sacramento
Theo Ratliff (PF/C) 11.6 million 3 years remaining
for
Brian Skinner (PF/C) 5 million 2 years remaining (+Team Option)
Corliss Williamson (SF/PF) 6 million 2 years remaining
Portland is rebuilding for the future and probably regrets paying an aging shotblocker this much money. Especially with a guy like Pryzbilla displacing him. Skinner and Williamson aren't better players, but they have shorter contracts and add flexibility. Ratliff would actually help us where we need help the most.
Free Agent Signing:
Marko Jaric (PG/SG) Restricted Free Agent
Offer MLE
I just really want us to get this guy. He's 6-7 and wants to play point guard. I see him playing the starting SG role and looking to set-up Bibby and Peja, returning us once again to the status of best passing team in the league. Also would alleviate some of the pain of losing Bobby J and leaving Evans as a more than capable backup at SG and Martin as a continuing project.
2005/2006 Sacramento Kings:
Mike Bibby/Marko Jaric
Marko Jaric/Maurice Evans/Kevin Martin
Peja Stojakovic/Shane Battier
Theo Ratliff/Darius Songaila/Calvin Booth
Brad Miller/Calvin Booth/Greg Ostertag
In this setup I have Marko taking over point guard duties for Bibby with Evans sliding into the SG spot. Marko Jaric, Maurice Evans, and Shane Battier could be quite a defensive unit I think. We've got pretty good size here at the PF and C spots. And we still have a roster spot for our first round draft pick.
Trade #1: Memphis/Sacramento/Milwaukee
Shane Battier (SG/SF) - 4.9 million, 6 years remaining to SAC
Jason Williams (PG) - 7.5 million, 3 years remaining to MIL
for
Kenny Thomas (SF/PF) - 6 million, 5 years remaining to MIL
Bobby Jackson (PG/SG) - 3.4 million, 1 year remaining to MEM
for
Desmond Mason (SG/SF) - 7.2 million, 2 years remaining to MEM
Calvin Booth (PF/C) - 6.3 million, 2 years remaining to SAC
[NOTE: This trade works on RealGM if you match the numbers.] I spent a long time working this deal out and I think it benefits everybody. Memphis wants to lose JWill, and Bobby J could be their PG. They're also upgrading with Desmond Mason. I don't really know what Milwaukee wants, but they seem to need a PG. And Kenny Thomas would give them a real SF where they've got a SG playing that spot now. And we are giving up Kenny Thomas' contract for another huge contract with Battier, but I think he helps us a lot more where we need help - perimeter defense. Calvin Booth gives us some more size up front, and Bobby J isn't going to stay beyond next year anyway. Oh and it also leaves us with a capable starting SF if Peja decides to go.
Trade #2: Portland/Sacramento
Theo Ratliff (PF/C) 11.6 million 3 years remaining
for
Brian Skinner (PF/C) 5 million 2 years remaining (+Team Option)
Corliss Williamson (SF/PF) 6 million 2 years remaining
Portland is rebuilding for the future and probably regrets paying an aging shotblocker this much money. Especially with a guy like Pryzbilla displacing him. Skinner and Williamson aren't better players, but they have shorter contracts and add flexibility. Ratliff would actually help us where we need help the most.
Free Agent Signing:
Marko Jaric (PG/SG) Restricted Free Agent
Offer MLE
I just really want us to get this guy. He's 6-7 and wants to play point guard. I see him playing the starting SG role and looking to set-up Bibby and Peja, returning us once again to the status of best passing team in the league. Also would alleviate some of the pain of losing Bobby J and leaving Evans as a more than capable backup at SG and Martin as a continuing project.
2005/2006 Sacramento Kings:
Mike Bibby/Marko Jaric
Marko Jaric/Maurice Evans/Kevin Martin
Peja Stojakovic/Shane Battier
Theo Ratliff/Darius Songaila/Calvin Booth
Brad Miller/Calvin Booth/Greg Ostertag
In this setup I have Marko taking over point guard duties for Bibby with Evans sliding into the SG spot. Marko Jaric, Maurice Evans, and Shane Battier could be quite a defensive unit I think. We've got pretty good size here at the PF and C spots. And we still have a roster spot for our first round draft pick.
BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
the only thing wrong with Joel's proposition is that some of those guys are free agents, like bobby, and we would have to resign. But other than that, i like it, except for the part about having an aging and seemingly unscoreable starting point guard in bobby. I like him coming off the bench and give energy, but not to start.
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Again, a decent team, but really, we can do better than that. Three very limited big men in Theo, Calvin and Greg, and only Brad and Darius as skilled guys. No real superstar, continued rebounding issues (Theo is NOT a good rebounder, neither is Darius, neither is Peja, neither is Marko).
Oh God help me... I'm participating in a trade discussion...
I'm actually a little intrigued by this one.
It lets us keep our main cogs, it gives us more options, and I think we actually get better...
I'm not opposed to getting Jaric for the MLE either...
EDIT: I had to delete part of my comments because I went back and noticed the Ratliff for Skinner and Corliss is an integral part of the whole trade proposal. I could live with getting Theo Ratliff for Skinner and Corliss, except for the fact we'd be getting one longer high contract for two lower contracts, and I think that could become troublesome down the road...again.
EDIT#2: Oh, never mind. I just remembered why I hate trade talk and especially multiple player trade discussions.
So, disregard this post full of blatherings...
hrdboild said:
I'm actually a little intrigued by this one.
It lets us keep our main cogs, it gives us more options, and I think we actually get better...
I'm not opposed to getting Jaric for the MLE either...
EDIT: I had to delete part of my comments because I went back and noticed the Ratliff for Skinner and Corliss is an integral part of the whole trade proposal. I could live with getting Theo Ratliff for Skinner and Corliss, except for the fact we'd be getting one longer high contract for two lower contracts, and I think that could become troublesome down the road...again.
EDIT#2: Oh, never mind. I just remembered why I hate trade talk and especially multiple player trade discussions.
So, disregard this post full of blatherings...
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BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
I basically would like the kings to get a big and tough player in the power forward position because i find that kenny just seems to settle for the jumper and lets face it, his jumper isn't very good. I wish we could pick up an elton brand or boozer like the other guy said
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
BibityBobtyBoom said:
Actually I think KTs jumper is excellent as long as his feet are set and he's nto moving. Antoher one of our standstill jumper big men. Its when he has to make a move or adjust the shto vs. pressure that it starts to get ugly.
BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
it seems like when a man comes at him, he jumps in the air and lifts his knees then throws a ball with no arc straight at the rim. It goes in some times like most players on the kings. But thats exactly it! Thats what everyone on the kings aside from maybe songaila or skinner. They just settle for a perimeter jumper and then miss most of the time and end up trying to chase down a point guard or shooting guard who has a straight shot at the rim. I just want somebody who can get in there and challenge the centers for rebounds and points
While I realize my plan doesn't directly address the rebounding issues (I think if you added the numbers up, we'd actually get worse there) I was deliberatly trying to move away from shooters. And that's the biggest problem I have with Kenny Thomas, even as a backup. He takes the jumpshot when he should be taking to the hoop. I think he's actually pretty effective when he's driving.
This also transforms our biggest weakness this season (size) into a strength. A frontline of Peja, Miller, and Ratliff is huge. Jaric is 6'7" which is real size at SG and dominating size at PG. Battier has good size for a SF and Calvin Booth is size and athleticism off the bench. Jaric and Battier are both tough defensive players and Evans has the potential to be. And of course, Ratliff is a block machine.
And VF, it's okay for you to agree with part of that and not agree with all of it. I like TR as an option for us because he's available and he's a major shotblocking force. That would alleviate the layup drills in a major way. I know he's not really a rebounder, but I'm expecting more rebounds from Peja (something around what he averaged last season) and Brad and Jaric. I also expect him to upgrade his offensive rebounds on this team by hanging out under the hoop and scooping it up when our shooters rim out. It's only one more year for his contract, which leaves us with a fat 11.6 million expiring contract in three years right when Peja will be ready for a raise. Or if Peja leaves early, it's a nice trading chip to someone in last place. Another difference between Ratliff and a lot of the shotblockers we could maybe afford this season is that he is a proven commodity.
I think the biggest difference about my plan is that it's built around the idea of keeping Peja, Bibby, and Miller long term which is the direction I think the team should go. I know many of you disagree.
This also transforms our biggest weakness this season (size) into a strength. A frontline of Peja, Miller, and Ratliff is huge. Jaric is 6'7" which is real size at SG and dominating size at PG. Battier has good size for a SF and Calvin Booth is size and athleticism off the bench. Jaric and Battier are both tough defensive players and Evans has the potential to be. And of course, Ratliff is a block machine.
And VF, it's okay for you to agree with part of that and not agree with all of it. I like TR as an option for us because he's available and he's a major shotblocking force. That would alleviate the layup drills in a major way. I know he's not really a rebounder, but I'm expecting more rebounds from Peja (something around what he averaged last season) and Brad and Jaric. I also expect him to upgrade his offensive rebounds on this team by hanging out under the hoop and scooping it up when our shooters rim out. It's only one more year for his contract, which leaves us with a fat 11.6 million expiring contract in three years right when Peja will be ready for a raise. Or if Peja leaves early, it's a nice trading chip to someone in last place. Another difference between Ratliff and a lot of the shotblockers we could maybe afford this season is that he is a proven commodity.
I think the biggest difference about my plan is that it's built around the idea of keeping Peja, Bibby, and Miller long term which is the direction I think the team should go. I know many of you disagree.
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BibityBobtyBoom
Bench
This works, except we would be needing a Small forward but we could work that out somewhere else.The Trade ID for this scenario is 2369353.
Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes
Incoming
Elton Brand
6-8 PF from Duke
20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.0 minutes
Mamadou N'Diaye
7-0 C from Auburn
1.8 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 6.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and -1.0 apg.
Peja Stojakovic
6-10 SF from Yugoslavia
20.1 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.1 apg in 38.4 minutes
Kenny Thomas
6-7 PF from New Mexico
11.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.6 apg in 28.6 minutes
Incoming
Elton Brand
6-8 PF from Duke
20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.6 apg in 37.0 minutes
Mamadou N'Diaye
7-0 C from Auburn
1.8 ppg, 1.6 rpg, 0.1 apg in 6.5 minutes
Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, +0.3 rpg, and -1.0 apg.
LPKingsFan
All-Star
For the Memphis deal, you should start Battier, not Jaric. There's some rebounding for you. Theo is pricey, but would certainly solve some shotblocking and interior D woes...
Yeah, I couldn't decide who to start, but I guess Battier has the longer track record. There's a lot of flexibility there with Jaric and Battier. Battier could start at SG and slide over to backup Peja with Jaric filling in as needed at the guard spots. I'd like to see Evans out there too.
Burrito06
Bench
ovrush said:
I liked J-Will when he was here but I would not like him coming back. And it's like we are trading all of 4 of our players for the entire starting lineup of the grizzlies. And the Grizzlies were knocked out of the playoffs just as fast as we were. This trade is just plain dumb. And trade #1 is just as dumb. WHo is going to run the point. Eddie House. Don't get me wrong House is a good back up point but he is not a starter.
I don't think the Kings as a whole will improve defensively drastically unless they change their style of play. I get the feeling that even if you bring in Battier or whoever, the Kings will only slightly improve defensively, but their offense will deteriorate more visibly because the Kings are an offensive minded team and are coached that way.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
ovrush said:
Whoa...
That's realistic!? The next step would be to move the team to Memphis.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Bricklayer said:
You can count on one hand the amount of guys that can shut down the paint consistently. We lack perimeter D and you can't rely on your bigs to block every shot after penetration, they will foul out quick and often. I think the team lacks a defensive strategy more than anything. I would rather the Kings help eachother out on defense than have a prolific shot blocker because he won't be able to save the day for a bad defensive sqaud.
Bballkingsrock
All-Star
I think a good trade might be like a Brian Skinner and Bobby Jackson for a Drew Gooden and a Erick Snow.
It can happen!!
It can happen!!
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Corliss Williamson, Kenny Thomas, and Brian Skinner to Portland for Ruben Patterson and Theo Ratliff
Patterson is a tough defender, a decent passer, and best of all doesn't rely on his scoring!!! Almost fills a Doug type of void in the sence that the SG isn't a scorer. He could fill in as a starting SG and even spell Peja at the SF. Ratliff has a huge contract, and while I don't think we become and instant defensive team with a shotblocker, I do think we drastically improve overall on D with the addition of Patterson in a deal for Ratliff. Patterson wants out and Portland wants to keep Wiltbilla and get rid of Ratliff so it could happen.
Patterson is a tough defender, a decent passer, and best of all doesn't rely on his scoring!!! Almost fills a Doug type of void in the sence that the SG isn't a scorer. He could fill in as a starting SG and even spell Peja at the SF. Ratliff has a huge contract, and while I don't think we become and instant defensive team with a shotblocker, I do think we drastically improve overall on D with the addition of Patterson in a deal for Ratliff. Patterson wants out and Portland wants to keep Wiltbilla and get rid of Ratliff so it could happen.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Bartking said:
I take it that you are joking but I would KILL to have Earl Boykins on the team. This guy, no matter what height can play ball and would be a HUGE asset. I first saw him a couple of years ago while with the Warriors and I knew even then he was something special.
stevetaebo
Bench
NENE big huge PF who can play C. super athletic. he'll ally oop anytthing within 3 feet of the basket. if we get him, we
can run play classic kings ball with mo' evans and bibby.
defnite project though with offensive shooting.
defnite project though with offensive shooting.
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loopymitch
All-Star
stoyak said:Songaila for KG and Shaq
That is just so ridiculous, what can I say??
Songaila for Shaq,KG and LBJ
Entity
Hall of Famer
Way to many ppl being mentioned from Memphis. 3 starters and a 6th man and none of them the best player on the Memphis team. Swift Is nothing but a dunker he is basically a taller Gerald Wallace he has no passing abilities no shooting abilities and he is a FA and our Cap is filled so FA are pretty much a wash.
Anyway here it is
Bobby Jackson and Kenny Thomas to Indiana for Ron Artest
Cutino Mobley and O-tag(dump) to Denver for NeNe
We Need Defense at the 2. Peja should not be our best defensive player
Denver is in need for perimeter shooting and we are in need of a PF
Bibby/House
Artest/Evans/Martin
Peja/Corlis/Artest/Evans
NeNe/Darius/Skinner
Miller/Skinner/NeNe/Darius
Plus draft a PF in the 1st round for future and find another PG in camp to stay injured until one of our main guys gets injured
Anyway here it is
Bobby Jackson and Kenny Thomas to Indiana for Ron Artest
Cutino Mobley and O-tag(dump) to Denver for NeNe
We Need Defense at the 2. Peja should not be our best defensive player
Denver is in need for perimeter shooting and we are in need of a PF
Bibby/House
Artest/Evans/Martin
Peja/Corlis/Artest/Evans
NeNe/Darius/Skinner
Miller/Skinner/NeNe/Darius
Plus draft a PF in the 1st round for future and find another PG in camp to stay injured until one of our main guys gets injured
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
SacTownKid said:
This almost reminds me of the arena issue in some ways -- have to agree on the basics before we can go on. And the basics in this case are that the only NBA champion I can recall in the last 25 years (roughly my watching window) without a major shotblocking presence was the 2nd Bulls Dynasty, who only featured a 7'2" center and three former Defensive Players of the Year at the 2/3/4.
You can be good with a Miller/Boozer/Peja combo. Miller is "good" Boozer is "good" Peja is "good". But your odds of winning a title with that crew up front are very low unless you get an absolutley lockdown pair of guards. Its not about just throwing "good" players together. They have to compliment each other. Playing team defense is good and desirable. But without defensive minded and defensively talented personnel, you're still going to be no better than middling on that end. In fact I would argue that you have to make BIGGER changes to the team to try to turn our batch of offensive-minded softies into a defesnive "team" than you do by taking a shortcut and bringing in a guy who can erase and cover up the errors and mistakes of others. If guys don't have the basic touoghness and defensive mentality by the time they reach their mid-20's, its highly unlikely you're going to be able to suddenly transform them into tough defensive players who rotate hard, step in front of people, knock people on their *** etc. Its just not in the cards.
Its no coincidence that all of the elite teams this year the Spurs, Suns, Heat, Pistons, have major interior shotblocking, nor is it any coincidence that champions so often have Wallace, Duncan, Shaq etc. patrolling the middle. And when the remainder of our personnel ranges from weak to middling on defense individually, it becomes even more critical to have a big guy back there protecting the hoop. Not as if these Kings are going to throw multiple Defensive Players of the Year on the floor to lock people up with.
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