OFFICIAL trade thread. Post trade proposals HERE! (merged)
- Thread starter CaminoChaos
- Start date
I saw Earl and I thought Watson, not Boykins. I thought we should have drafted him a few years back and I think we could use him now. He's no Bobby offensively, but he's very good defensively, something we lack noticeably at the point guard position. I'd rather see a good defensive backup PG, a good defensive PF or C, and a quality scorer at either SG, PF, or C (pretty much mix and match, so long as we get tougher on the boards and on defense).
Bricklayer said:
Basically. 
Although obviously since we already have Miller here, it would seem to make more sense to try to find somebody at PF to cover for him and let us keep him.
Although obviously since we already have Miller here, it would seem to make more sense to try to find somebody at PF to cover for him and let us keep him.
Who do you suggest?
I am curious. I agree with everything you say about defense but our weakest defenders are also our "core". I have waited for this team to play defense for a long long time, and I am leaning more towards the fact that this team doesn't have any defensive strategy which = coaching problem.
Well, that's the thing about keeping Miller/Peja/Bibby. If you do, then the SG and PF spots are all about covering for them. In fact I'm not sure I would want one other non-defensive oriented player in the entire rotation -- as it is you already have roughly 50% of your minutes accounted for right there with guys who lack on the defense/toughness/rebounding angles. Can't afford to have any more I would think.
I like Miller, but I think we're trapped a bit with him. Barring the oft theorized miracle KG trade, he is really one of the very few big men in the whole league who we can run our offense through. But his limitations are a significant issue that really have to be taken into account when making all of our offseason moves this summer.
I like Miller, but I think we're trapped a bit with him. Barring the oft theorized miracle KG trade, he is really one of the very few big men in the whole league who we can run our offense through. But his limitations are a significant issue that really have to be taken into account when making all of our offseason moves this summer.
Entity,
You oughta watch a Suns game. They play good defense except for Amare and Nash, and they have a pretty darn good bench, at least as far as hustle play and defense are concerned. With their starters, it's not like they need a ton of bench scoring, though Jim Jackson and Barbosa can fill it up.
You oughta watch a Suns game. They play good defense except for Amare and Nash, and they have a pretty darn good bench, at least as far as hustle play and defense are concerned. With their starters, it's not like they need a ton of bench scoring, though Jim Jackson and Barbosa can fill it up.
If we are going to keep those core three, a partial plan (just an example):
C- Miller
SF- Peja
PG- Bibby
then bring back:
PG/OG- Bobby (athletic)
OG/SF- Evans (athletic, defense)
OG- Martin (athletic)
PF/C- Skinner (defense) -- 5th big man
then fill out the bench:
C/PF -- Dan Gadzuric (first big off the bench, shotblocking/rebounding))
PF/SF/C -- either Donyell Marshall or Eddie Griffin as a 6'10" combo inside/out shotblocker/rebounder/shooter
SF -- draft Hakim Warrick (potential) or Joey Graham ( more developed) (hyper-athletic SFs with bigtime defensive potential)
let go/trade: Mobley, Thomas, Tag, Corliss, House, Songaila, Daniels
So:
C- Brad Miller
PF-
SF- Peja Stojakovic
OG-
PG- Mike Bibby
6th- PG/OG 6'1" Bobby Jackson
7th- C/PF 6'11" Dan Gadzuric
8th- PF/SF 6'10" Marshall/Griffin
9th- OG/SF 6'5" Maurice Evans
10th- SF 6'7"/6'8" Graham/Warrick
11th- OG 6'7" Kevin Martin
12th- PF/C 6'9" Brian Skinner
Now obviously I have left out the two most important spots, and that gets more complex. But the above bench is the way I would want it to look -- mostly young, athletic, defensive oriented, solid size, versatile with some solid vets mixed in.
Now for the starters, just for argument:
OG: Ron Artest (defensive captain, psycho, offensive player)
PF: Nene (young, big, not great shotblocker, but with that bench good enough)
Slight problem there with not enough balls to go around amontgst the starters, and the passing isn't any better than its been barring nene blossoming. Also still doubt that there is that #1 stud in that lineup to carry you to a title. But don;t think we can get him without busting up the core. So the above plan at least makes us big, tough, athletic, a lot of defenders and yet still with a lot of offense. Best of all, it might almost be doable with a little luck
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There's really only 1 of those 2-guards in the league that averages over 7rpg and that's Lebron. There's a few more at just over six (Pierce, Josh Smith, Q, Simmons). Harpring is also over 6rpg but he is more of a 3 then a 2-guard. So basically your options are limited to Lebron, who we will never get, and Pierce, who we'd have to give the farm (Bibby and Peja or Miller and Peja) to steal away from Boston.
Bobby Simmons is an interesting guy. I'd love to get him somehow and stick him in the lineup with Peja and Bibby.
Bobby Simmons is an interesting guy. I'd love to get him somehow and stick him in the lineup with Peja and Bibby.
hrdboild said:
Oh you mean like last summer when we signed Courtney Alexander and Greg Ostertag.
I guess he did go out and find us Maurice Evans and Matt Barnes, but still. I hope this summer isn't nearly as quiet as the last one.
I guess he did go out and find us Maurice Evans and Matt Barnes, but still. I hope this summer isn't nearly as quiet as the last one.
Hey! You stole my offseason plan!
I was seriously going to post something comprehensive like this over the weekend when my exams are done. You are essentially right on here.
Now, the question is how we are going to package the "let go" guys to net Artest and Nene.
The Nugs crave a shooter at the 2, so a sign and trade with Cat for Nene would make sense.
As for Artest, I don't think Corliss and Thomas will do the trick, unless we agreed to take on some salary dump of theirs (Croshere??) We may have to package Bobby too, then resign House or another cheap 2 guard.
And do you think we can split the MLE between Gadzuric and Marshall?? I figure it may take the whole thing to get Donyell. Then use the LLE for Dan the man I guess.
I really like this plan, since I was going to post it anyway. Everyone should stop posting plans, and use their energy on how we can turn Tag Corliss Thomas and Mobley into Artest and Nene.
I was seriously going to post something comprehensive like this over the weekend when my exams are done. You are essentially right on here.
Now, the question is how we are going to package the "let go" guys to net Artest and Nene.
The Nugs crave a shooter at the 2, so a sign and trade with Cat for Nene would make sense.
As for Artest, I don't think Corliss and Thomas will do the trick, unless we agreed to take on some salary dump of theirs (Croshere??
) We may have to package Bobby too, then resign House or another cheap 2 guard. And do you think we can split the MLE between Gadzuric and Marshall?? I figure it may take the whole thing to get Donyell. Then use the LLE for Dan the man I guess.
I really like this plan, since I was going to post it anyway. Everyone should stop posting plans, and use their energy on how we can turn Tag Corliss Thomas and Mobley into Artest and Nene.
LPKingsFan said:
Hey! You stole my offseason plan!
I was seriously going to post something comprehensive like this over the weekend when my exams are done. You are essentially right on here.
Now, the question is how we are going to package the "let go" guys to net Artest and Nene.
The Nugs crave a shooter at the 2, so a sign and trade with Cat for Nene would make sense.
As for Artest, I don't think Corliss and Thomas will do the trick, unless we agreed to take on some salary dump of theirs (Croshere??) We may have to package Bobby too, then resign House or another cheap 2 guard.
And do you think we can split the MLE between Gadzuric and Marshall?? I figure it may take the whole thing to get Donyell. Then use the LLE for Dan the man I guess.
I really like this plan, since I was going to post it anyway. Everyone should stop posting plans, and use their energy on how we can turn Tag Corliss Thomas and Mobley into Artest and Nene.
I was seriously going to post something comprehensive like this over the weekend when my exams are done. You are essentially right on here.
Now, the question is how we are going to package the "let go" guys to net Artest and Nene.
The Nugs crave a shooter at the 2, so a sign and trade with Cat for Nene would make sense.
As for Artest, I don't think Corliss and Thomas will do the trick, unless we agreed to take on some salary dump of theirs (Croshere??
) We may have to package Bobby too, then resign House or another cheap 2 guard. And do you think we can split the MLE between Gadzuric and Marshall?? I figure it may take the whole thing to get Donyell. Then use the LLE for Dan the man I guess.
I really like this plan, since I was going to post it anyway. Everyone should stop posting plans, and use their energy on how we can turn Tag Corliss Thomas and Mobley into Artest and Nene.
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Nene is doable, but he's got a small salary and only Bobby J represents a desireable player with a similar salary. It may be better to wait a year when he'll become a free agent (restricted I think). As for Artest, he's not only a former defensive player of the year, he was also averaging something like 26 points per game before he was suspended. Indiana would be stupid to trade him to the Kings if they weren't getting Miller or Peja or Bibby in return.
venom_7 said:
I hope Cat resigns. I hope Tag comes back. I hope Petrie will make a strong run at KG. Heres my trade. Cuttino, Ostertag, and Kenny Thomas for Kevin Garnett and Trenton Hassel. What ya think? Salaries equal out. Now for the interest. It reminds me of the Shaq trade. Two starters, Mobley and Thomas (Odom and Butler) for Kg (Shaq) and a filler from the bench.
things i would like to see happen this offseason.
1)trade that soft marshmallow man peja for a defensive 3
2)trade bobby jackson (not that he doesn't have heart or skill, hes injury prone and 32 -- not getting any younger)
3)package some of our expiring contracts (mobley, ostertag, jackson) and either trade for a high draft pick or a team that wants to rebuild but has 1 good player w/ 11 bad players w/ bad contracts.
4)resign mo evans (this guy is a keeper)
I seriously think any deals for Artest not involving Peja would have to involve Cat opting in with his contract so we could trade him, and then for other players to be added in with us taking back a worse contract or some such. It also requires Indiana to be thinking about things in a certian way:
for instance:
Mobley & Corliss (and maybe a pick or something) for Artest & Bender works. But it only works if: 1) the Pacers are disgusted with Artest and want him gone; 2) the Pacers have finally given up on Bender and his injuries and want to dump the contract; 3) Carlisle coached Corliss during his 6th man of the year season, and would love to have him back + has confidence in him. Bobby could also be a valuable piece to the Pacers, they might like to dump Croshere and his contract (who could be the poor and non defensive veriosn of Marshall/Griffin in my plan) etc.
for instance:
Mobley & Corliss (and maybe a pick or something) for Artest & Bender works. But it only works if: 1) the Pacers are disgusted with Artest and want him gone; 2) the Pacers have finally given up on Bender and his injuries and want to dump the contract; 3) Carlisle coached Corliss during his 6th man of the year season, and would love to have him back + has confidence in him. Bobby could also be a valuable piece to the Pacers, they might like to dump Croshere and his contract (who could be the poor and non defensive veriosn of Marshall/Griffin in my plan) etc.
Artest is a great player. but c'mon, i think alot of people in the forums are expecting too much improvement in characterwise in this clown, he's devastating defender, but he's a horribly unstable and immature.
Trade Thomas/Skinner and Peja(and maybe #1) for Paul Pierce.
Trade Cat(and maybe #1) for Nene and junk player to make salaries match.
Play KMart/Evans at the 2. Kmart will break out next year with time. He's a lanky guy in the Tayshaun/Doug Christie mold who has potential to defend well. good potential at the offensive side for Kmart
new Starting Five
Miller
Nene
Pierce
KMart
Bibby
Bench: Songaila, BobbyJ, Evans, BigNasty, (THomas/SKinner whoever wasn't traded), Tag
Trade Thomas/Skinner and Peja(and maybe #1) for Paul Pierce.
Trade Cat(and maybe #1) for Nene and junk player to make salaries match.
Play KMart/Evans at the 2. Kmart will break out next year with time. He's a lanky guy in the Tayshaun/Doug Christie mold who has potential to defend well. good potential at the offensive side for Kmart
new Starting Five
Miller
Nene
Pierce
KMart
Bibby
Bench: Songaila, BobbyJ, Evans, BigNasty, (THomas/SKinner whoever wasn't traded), Tag
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KG fantasies aside, I think Pierce could be an available disgrunted star if the Celts dissapoint and Walker, well, walks away from Boston with a new team. If the Celt's decide to go youth with Jefferson, letting Payton and Walker go, PP may want out too.
We used to have our Pierce trade threads before the Webb trade, now we have the pieces to make the contract discrepancy work. We just need Ainge to really want the "next Bird" really bad.
I don't know about starting Kevin though. I think the ideal would be keeping Thomas then, then go big with
Miller
Nene (or Kwame, or whatever)
Thomas
Pierce
Bibby
With their size advantage, Kenny and Pierce would be a huge leap on boards. I don't know much about PP's D, but he's always shown the heart to be the go-to guy when needed. As a SF, though, his rebounding advantage would be largely mitigated.
We used to have our Pierce trade threads before the Webb trade, now we have the pieces to make the contract discrepancy work. We just need Ainge to really want the "next Bird" really bad.
I don't know about starting Kevin though. I think the ideal would be keeping Thomas then, then go big with
Miller
Nene (or Kwame, or whatever)
Thomas
Pierce
Bibby
With their size advantage, Kenny and Pierce would be a huge leap on boards. I don't know much about PP's D, but he's always shown the heart to be the go-to guy when needed. As a SF, though, his rebounding advantage would be largely mitigated.
If we aregoing to get Nene and ARtest the only possible way I can see with out giving up our three main guys is
Trade 1
Kings.
Bobby Jackson and Tag plus 2 future 1s
Pacers
Artest
Trade2
Kings.
Cat(did not opt out or is resigned)
for
Nuggets
Nene plus cap filler
Pacers do this because they need a PG and it will also give them future cap space also a couple of draft picks do not hurt
Nuggets do this because they has been interested in a SG for sometime now plus they were also interested in Cat before.
Trade 1
Kings.
Bobby Jackson and Tag plus 2 future 1s
Pacers
Artest
Trade2
Kings.
Cat(did not opt out or is resigned)
for
Nuggets
Nene plus cap filler
Pacers do this because they need a PG and it will also give them future cap space also a couple of draft picks do not hurt
Nuggets do this because they has been interested in a SG for sometime now plus they were also interested in Cat before.
The PRINCETON OFFENSE should be the basis for ALL trades. If a player does not fit well or cannot be molded into the PRINCETON OFFENSE because of selfish tendencies or whatever, i.e. CUTTINO MOBELY, that player should not be considered. Draft and trade personell to fit the SYSTEM that is in place.......don't try to alter the system to fit the personell. That is my very humble opinion.
