New Starting Five and your rotation?

[ockingsfan]

with ron artest returning on wed... coach theus will again have to reshuffle the starting five.... what would be you ideal starting five and rotation?

i would go small and try to run like the suns and warriors... my starting five would be....

PF Ron Artest 6'7"
SF John Salmons 6'7"
C Brad Miller 7'0"
SG Kevin Martin 6'7"
PG Beno Udrich 6'3"

Sixthman
6)Francisco Garcia 6'7"

Reserves
7) Spencer Hawes 7'0"
8) Quincy Douby 6'3"
9) Mikki Moore 7'0"
10) Kenny Thomas 6' 7"
11) Watkins 6' 11"
12) SAR 6' 9"

what would your ideal starting five and rotation be, now that we got a taste of what the players can do and with artest returning???

 

[VF21]

I think we need to just make it the 6'7" squad. Put Garcia at the point and find someone/anyone to play C, as long as they meet the height requirement.














Seriously, I'm not sure Beno is going to slide into the starting slot. How Ron works out is going to be paramount to everything else. I just want to continue to see Reggie giving the nod to the guys who work their posteriors off. It's refreshing...

 

[tyrant]

mikki moore is working his tail off. he just stinks. adjustments need to be made. i say

pg:beno
sg:martin
sf:artest
pf:spencer
c:miller

sixth man: salmons
garcia
thomas
douby
moore/watkins

hawes seems to have more offensive capability than anyone we've had since webber. miller needs to pull down the boards

 

[OptimusRhyme]

C-Miller/Hawes
PF-Artest/Hawes/Williams
SF-Garcia/Artest/Salmons
SG-Martin/Douby
PG-Salmons/Beno

Minutes-

C- Miller- 30 , Hawes 18 - Center Position
PF-Artest-30, Williams 18- Power Forward Position
SF- Garcia- 34, Artest- 6, Salmons- 8 - Small Forward Position
SG- Martin- 38, Douby- 10 - Shooting Guard Position
PG-Salmons-30, Beno 14, Douby-4 - Point Guard Position

Totals Minutes-
Martin- 38
Salmons- 38
Artest- 36
Garcia- 34
Miller- 30
Hawes- 18
Williams- 18
Douby- 14
Beno-14

We would run a 9 man rotation but IMO it would be the most effective rotation for this team in rebuilding getting the young guns minutes and keeping the vets happy. Kenny Thomas would be playing backup PF if Williams is not available.

 

[bloom]

Minutes-

Miller- 30 , Hawes 18 - Center Position
Artest-30, Williams 18- Power Forward Position
SF- Garcia- 34, Artest- 6, Salmons- 8 - Small Forward Position
SG- Martin- 38, Douby- 10 - Shooting Guard Position
PG-Salmons-30, Beno 14, Douby-4 - Point Guard Position

I'm sorry but I'd like Beno have more PG minutes than Salmons. I know we haven't really seen Beno that much (I missed last nights game) but he was brought here to be a PG (He can pass and shoot) and I want to see more of him in that position. Salmons is good but he's not a really good passer and so I'm hoping that Beno can take care of that.

 

[creAtivetfh]

i love that nobody is putting mikki moore and kenny thomas anywhere in their rotations

 

[OptimusRhyme]

I'm sorry but I'd like Beno have more PG minutes than Salmons. I know we haven't really seen Beno that much (I missed last nights game) but he was brought here to be a PG (He can pass and shoot) and I want to see more of him in that position. Salmons is good but he's not a really good passer and so I'm hoping that Beno can take care of that.

Then so be it let Beno earn those for now, he hasnt proven anything Salmons has! Do you realize how many mismatches opposing teams will start to have once John gets 5 games of PG play under his belt and gets used to his role, hes got the handles and capable vison of a point guard but the size of a SF and this is a team looking for as many mismatches as we can right now. He's a Strong 6"7 that is quick on defence give him a shot. Now I'm not saying I don't want to see Beno alot more at PG for us I'm saying if he earns it the minutes should come naturally 14 minutes a game is plenty of time to prove what your worth is.

 

[VF21]

Beno Udrih is going to have to earn a spot in the starting five, just like anyone else. I'm as glad as the next person to see him here, as he is more of a pure point guard, but I don't think he's earned anything quite yet, especially at the expense of someone like Salmons.

Thanks to the OP for adding all the heights.

We could have a starting five of 6'7" Francisco Garcia, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Beno Udrih is going to have to earn a spot in the starting five, just like anyone else. I'm as glad as the next person to see him here, as he is more of a pure point guard, but I don't think he's earned anything quite yet, especially at the expense of someone like Salmons.

Thanks to the OP for adding all the heights.

We could have a starting five of 6'7" Francisco Garcia, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas.

I think that would be a little too much

But yah I think we should give Ronnie a chance at PF I think he would take it in stride, as a challenge. Which in force would make him play better. Keep the two 7 footers (Miller, Hawes) at the center position let K9, WIlliams, Mikki, Reef battle for that backup PF spot because they cant complain if Artest is playing in front of them because he is obviously a better player.
This way it opens up minutes for Salmons and Garcia to play more and dosen't make the organization look as bad by not playing the vet PF's.

 

[VF21]

I'll bet right now that we see it at least once. Maybe not starting, but I have to believe it's too tempting to pass up.

 

[swisshh]

I'd go with Brad + 6'7" squirtle squad. It really gets us our best 5 on the floor at once, and then you can adjust with kenny/mikki and Beno/Douby, with Hawes getting some minutes.

 

[PurpleHaze]

A couple of days ago, in response to a Q about possibly using Ron Artest at PF I recall Coach Theus saying that Phoenix Suns rotation is the NBA template for up-tempo small ball success:

PG Barbosa 6'3 (had career high 39 last game)
PG Nash 6'3
SG Bell 6'5
G/F Hill 6'7
F Marion 6'7
C Stoudemire 6'10
F/C Diaw 6'8

 

[allrightythen]

A couple of days ago, in response to a Q about possibly using Ron Artest at PF I recall Coach Theus saying that Phoenix Suns rotation is the NBA template for up-tempo small ball success:

PG Barbosa 6'3 (had career high 39 last game)
PG Nash 6'3
SG Bell 6'5
G/F Hill 6'7
F Marion 6'7
C Stoudemire 6'10
F/C Diaw 6'8

Marion might get overpowered at times as a PF, but rebounds and blocks shots very well, even against bigger guys. We don't have that type of player to play small ball with.

 

[fnordius]

1. ??? Udrih unless he sucks
2. Martin
3. Artest
4/5. Miller/Hawes/Williams

Bench: Salmons, Garcia, Watkins, Douby

Towel squad: KT, SAR, Moore, Greene, (Bibby)

 

[Gary]

C - Brad Miller
PF - Spencer Hawes
SF - Ron Artest
SG - Kevin Martin
PG - Beno Udrih (until Bibby is back)
6th - John Salmons
7th - Cisco, or Williams
8th - Williams, or Cisco
9th - Moore/Douby/KT/SAR/whoever.

 

[jcassio]

Players/Minutes:
Garcia- 33
Martin- 35
Salmons- 33
Artest- 35
Miller- 30
---------
Beno-15
Douby- 12
Williams- 21
Hawes- 21
Watkins- 5

KT is not going to play because of tendinitis; we'll gladly buy out his contract at a slightly reduced rate, or he can sit in street clothes.

SAR is going to Orlando - if I have to drive him there myself.

Moore becomes the Kings favorite flag-waver. If another player gets injured, Moore might move into Watkins 5 min/game spot in the rotation.

Greene gets released. Good luck!

 

[AussieKing]

We could have a starting five of 6'7" Francisco Garcia, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas.

Then the second unit could be:
PG SAR
SG Watkins
SF Moore
PF Hawes
C Miller

I feel these line ups could produce some matchup problems though

 

[chrisnu]

We could have a starting five of 6'7" Francisco Garcia, Kevin Martin, John Salmons, Ron Artest and Kenny Thomas.

This reminds of of the 2003-04 Cavaliers, when they had LeBron James, Ricky Davis, and Darius Miles in the starting lineup. I thought they were trying to construct a lineup of all small forwards.

The rotation I'd want to see:

C: Miller/Hawes/Moore
PF: Williams/Moore/Watkins
SF: Artest/Garcia/Salmons
SG: Martin/Douby
PG: Salmons/Udrih/Garcia

 

[BawLa]

For now...

PG - Udrich/Salmons/Douby
SG - Martin/Salmons/Douby
SF - Artest/Garcia/Salmons
PF - Williams/Watkins/Artest/KT
C - Miller/Hawes/Moore/SAR

Minute Distribution:

PG - Udrich(16), Salmons(20), Douby(12)
SG - Martin(36), Salmons(6), Douby(6)
SF - Artest(20), Garcia(22), Salmons(6)
PF - Williams(24), Watkins(6), Artest(10), KT(8)
C - Miller(24), Hawes(16), Moore(4), SAR(4)

This would be my general breakdown. Of course it is hard to play SAR, Moore and KT less than 10 minutes per game due to the fact that they are veterans, so really they would get closer to 10 min/game, but they wouldn't all play in the same games.

We are rebuilding, and the minutes our kids get should reflect that. And although many on this board are not sold on Douby's PG skills, lets remember that we have a million viable SG's and this kid needs minutes. With Bibby out, this is a good opportunity to get Douby some minutes at PG.

 

[SkinnerBox]

I already posted this in another thread, but the yahoo fantasy notes on Ron Artest say that he'll be starting at PF tomorrow. I think they cited a source on it too, although I forget what source.

 

[VF21]

No, the fantasy notes say he MAY start at the PF.

Artest (domestic abuse) may be the Kings’ starting power forward when he returns from his seven-game suspension Wednesday at Minnesota, the Sacramento Bee reports.

 

[CruzDude]

PF Ron Artest 6'7"
SF John Salmons 6'7"
C Brad Miller 7'0"
SG Kevin Martin 6'7"
PG Beno Udrich 6'3"

Sixthman
6)Francisco Garcia 6'7"

Reserves
7) Spencer Hawes 7'0"
8) Quincy Douby 6'3"
9) Mikki Moore 7'0"
10) Kenny Thomas 6' 7"
11) Watkins 6' 11"
12) SAR 6' 9"

I like this....... for now. Udrich has to earn his minutes tho'. The Kings Assists-Turnover ratio is below 1.0 which won't win many games. For example, last night (Tue 11/13), EVERY winning team has more assists than the losers and all but two had more rebounds. If Udrich can start getting 5-6 or more assists in 25 minutes AND can score 10+ then he "earns' the PG slot ........... for now.

Otherwise I agree with you rotation above.

 

[Warhawk]

I like this....... for now. Udrich has to earn his minutes tho'. The Kings Assists-Turnover ratio is below 1.0 which won't win many games. For example, last night (Tue 11/13), EVERY winning team has more assists than the losers and all but two had more rebounds. If Udrich can start getting 5-6 or more assists in 25 minutes AND can score 10+ then he "earns' the PG slot ........... for now.

Otherwise I agree with you rotation above.

Agreed, I think. Short term, anyways. Nice to see what that combination would bring. Obviously everything changes with Bibby in the mix later and how well Beno comes along.

 

[Merdiesel]

How long until Ron hits the court anyways?

 

[Jechtsphere]

He'll play tonight in his first game.

 

[Ryle]

Justin Williams will only be able to play about 15 minutes a game because of foul trouble.

 

[joemama]

uh Justin Williams is what we need up front

C J. Williams/Miller
PF Artest/Hawes
SF Salmons
SG Martin/Douby
PG Beno/Flaco

I would really like to see more of Hawes and Williams together (they worked well together in the summer league), but this starting five would be nice. My second line up would probably have KT at the SF if he could grab a damn rebound or two if not he sits. Moore has been okay, but Shareef needs to go to Orlando to bring us in another point so our second lineup can have Flaco at the 3, where he's supposed to be.


Williams/Miller
Artest/Hawes
Salmons/Flaco
Martin/Douby
Beno/? "new PG"

Moore and Watkins can play if they show me something. Shareef will be in Orlando (come on excemption), KT needs to go away (I don't really care where). Oreene would be brutal if teamed up with Artest on the wing (where he's supposed to be).

 

[RunNGun]

I don't see how anyone could bench Salmons at this point. The guy is playing at a level no one would have expected from him. 20+ppg and 50%+ from the field along with above average defense. You cannot reward him by benching him.

Ever since I saw Artest go one on one with Stoudamire at the end of last season I believe that he can pretty much guard any player in the game. Artest is not Bowen in that he gets beat on the post over and over again. He may not block taller players, but his length and hands disrupt the play when the big men put the ball on the floor. This is the same reason why Marion does so well against bigger men.

 

[Bricklayer]

I don't see how anyone could bench Salmons at this point. The guy is playing at a level no one would have expected from him. 20+ppg and 50%+ from the field along with above average defense. You cannot reward him by benching him.

Ever since I saw Artest go one on one with Stoudamire at the end of last season I believe that he can pretty much guard any player in the game. Artest is not Bowen in that he gets beat on the post over and over again. He may not block taller players, but his length and hands disrupt the play when the big men put the ball on the floor. This is the same reason why Marion does so well against bigger men.

I agree about Salmons.

However, a) Artest is not Marion in multiple important ways; and b) Marion does not defend bigs well at all. The key, often brushed over, to using blown up SFs as bigs is that those SFs must be able to do the things that bigs can do. Hence Marion, as a huge rebounder and sturdy shotblocker is a unique and nearly perfect smallball SF. He can't stop a good PF in man defense, but he can impersonate one wihtout giving up too much else. He can also really jump, which helps him overcome his lack of size.

Ron Artest on the other hand has always been a weak rebounder (again, career averages are absolutely identical to Peja Stojakovic), he's short, not a leaper, not a shot blocker. Putting him at PF also neutralizes the very two things that make him such an exceptional player. Much is made of his post game on offense. And it should be. But the reason it is so effective is precisely because he is posting up soft little wing players where he has a huge size/strength advanatage on them. He just overpowers them. Now you put him at PF, and last night for instance he is facing Carlos Boozer. Do you think he is going to overpower Carlos Boozer? Or that his post game is something a guy like that is not used to guarding as part and parcel of his position? And on defense, Artest is not a rebounder, not a shotblocker, he is a perimeter player. Quick feet, quick hands. Having him stuck down inside banging bodies with bigger/taller guys every night wastes precisely the things he brings. He will of course be a mismatch in other ways -- the smallball things. The perimeter game etc. But this is not a Marion thing where you ge all the big man traits -- rebounding, shotblocking etc. -- and THEN get the smallball matchup edge.

 

[Cal-Kings]

C-Miller/Hawes
PF-Artest/Miller/SAR
SF-Salmons/Artest
SG-Martin/Garcia
PG-Garcia/Udrih/Douby

Minutes:
C- Miller 30 , Hawes 18 - Center Position
PF-Artest 32, Miller 8, SAR 8 - Power Forward Position
SF-Salmons 40, Artest 8, - Small Forward Position
SG-Martin 40, Garcia 8 - Shooting Guard Position
PG-Garcia 20, Udrih 20, Douby 8 - Point Guard Position

Total Minutes:
Martin 40
Salmons 40
Artest 40
Miller 38
Garcia 28
Udrih 20
Hawes 18
Douby 8
SAR 8

Exceptions depending on game situations:
Give Watkins time if Miller isn't "into the game".
Limit Garcia's time if he's the "Bad Garcia" too often. Give that time to Douby.
Increase Udrih's time as he gets more comfortable in the offense, and eventually start at PG.
No interest in Williams, Greene, Thomas, or Moore except in garbage time.