Need for a defensive wing - realistic targets?

[twslam07]

Colllison and Butler for Avery Bradley and Terry Rozier.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h9lpdc4

Why would the Celtics even consider this? Bradley has more value than Collison and Rozier has more value than Butler.

On top of that, you've just added another rotational PG to their rotation (Thomas, Smart, & Collison). I don't see any incentive for the Celtics to do this trade.

 

[Section 101]

Why would the Celtics even consider this? Bradley has more value than Collison and Rozier has more value than Butler.

On top of that, you've just added another rotational PG to their rotation (Thomas, Smart, & Collison). I don't see any incentive for the Celtics to do this trade.

Celtics are starting IT, Bradley, Crowder. It would allow them to move Smart to the starting line up and have DC off the bench. They only have been playing Crowder and Turner at SF. They are basically undersized starting 1-5. They have 4 PG on the roster and 1 real SF.

 

[twslam07]

Celtics are starting IT, Bradley, Crowder. It would allow them to move Smart to the starting line up and have DC off the bench. They only have been playing Crowder and Turner at SF. They are basically undersized starting 1-5. They have 4 PG on the roster and 1 real SF.

I'm assuming you have heard of the phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen?" This trade does just that.

There's a reason why the Bledsoe/Dragic/Thomas guard rotation didn't work in Phoenix. There were too many players that needed the ball in their hands. You're doing the same thing here with Thomas, Smart, & Collison and on top of that, you have a wing who is most effective with the ball in his hands (Turner).

You're not only disrupting the balance of their roster with this trade, but you're downgrading their talent with them giving up two greater assets for two lesser ones.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I haven't seen this name mentioned anywhere, but what about Victor Oladipo? I am not sure about his situation in Orlando (he still getting major minutes), but a couple of months he was benched for Channing Frye and only recently returned to their starting lineup. They also have Evan Fournier at the SG spot. There might be a chance there. Ben and Caron for Oladipo? Do the Magic even consider this, considering the drop-off in talent they would get back? What about Ben, Collison, and Anderson for Oladipo and Watson?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

 

[VF21]

I haven't seen this name mentioned anywhere, but what about Victor Oladipo? I am not sure about his situation in Orlando (he still getting major minutes), but a couple of months he was benched for Channing Frye and only recently returned to their starting lineup. They also have Evan Fournier at the SG spot. There might be a chance there. Ben and Caron for Oladipo? Do the Magic even consider this, considering the drop-off in talent they would get back? What about Ben, Collison, and Anderson for Oladipo and Watson?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Since you're proposing it, what do you think? Why would the Magic consider it?

 

[LPKingsFan]

I haven't seen this name mentioned anywhere, but what about Victor Oladipo? I am not sure about his situation in Orlando (he still getting major minutes), but a couple of months he was benched for Channing Frye and only recently returned to their starting lineup. They also have Evan Fournier at the SG spot. There might be a chance there. Ben and Caron for Oladipo? Do the Magic even consider this, considering the drop-off in talent they would get back? What about Ben, Collison, and Anderson for Oladipo and Watson?

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

If there's a Magic trade, it's probably just Ben for Fournier straight up.

 

[Section 101]

I'm assuming you have heard of the phrase "too many cooks in the kitchen?" This trade does just that.

There's a reason why the Bledsoe/Dragic/Thomas guard rotation didn't work in Phoenix. There were too many players that needed the ball in their hands. You're doing the same thing here with Thomas, Smart, & Collison and on top of that, you have a wing who is most effective with the ball in his hands (Turner).

You're not only disrupting the balance of their roster with this trade, but you're downgrading their talent with them giving up two greater assets for two lesser ones.

You realize they have that now? Trading 2 PG for a PG and SF reduces it.

 

[KingsFanGER]

You realize they have that now? Trading 2 PG for a PG and SF reduces it.

Smart is capable of playing both guard spots and can even guard SF's if necessary. Rozier is not your typical PG. Bradley is a SG. Celtics have Thomas and Turner, who will run the team most of the time, but they have more than enough playmaking.
They have no need for DC. And they won't give you a part of the best perimeter defense of this league for a backup PG and a washed up SF.
Adding KK wouldn't change that. Brad Stevens wants versatile players and wants his big to be able to spread the floor.

The only player, who (you can add a BIG maybe here) might be available, when we decide to overpay is Smart, because Thomas has proven, that he can defend well enough to man the starting PG spot. But I tried to think about a lot of combinations, that might get the Celtics interested to part ways with a 6'4 defensive stud, who can guard 3 positions and might come around on offense in time ( his shooting % is related to the Celtic's style of play and should go up a bit on a team not so centered around the 3 ball). I couldn't find anything on our team, that would cause enough interest.
And with Marco off the bench, Smart would be the ideal fit for us.

 

[twslam07]

You realize they have that now? Trading 2 PG for a PG and SF reduces it.

Oh so we are considering Bradley a PG now? I didn't realize that non-ball dominant guards who average 1.8 APG in 31 minutes are considered PGs. I must have missed that memo.

Considering this is a thread about acquiring defensive wings, I would think you would also be of the belief that Bradley is a SG/wing and not a PG. If you don't believe that, I would suggest you create a new thread discussing how we can acquire a new PG.

Yes, Rozier is a PG, but he's not a regular rotational player right now (he's only played 96 minutes this year). Trading him away doesn't free up Boston's rotation for another ball handler.

So, again, trading a 3 and D SG and a young PG who is all potential at this point for a rotational PG does not make sense when you already have Thomas, Smart, & Turner in your regular rotation.

 

[CelticsFan]

Colllison and Butler for Avery Bradley and Terry Rozier.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=h9lpdc4

Terrible trade! Bradley just turned 25 and is one of the best on ball defending SG's in the league. Additionally Bradley was just locked up in the offseson at 4 years 32 million, a great contract for the Celtics. Bradley is having his best season as an NBA player.

 

[funkykingston]

McLemore and Collison for Taj Gibson and Tony Snell is a trade that works in terms of the numbers.

With Hinrich and Brooks free agents at the end of the year and Collison being a very good backup/spot starter in case of another Rose injury I could see Chicago being interested especially since it clears a bit of logjam at the PF spot giving more minutes for both Mirotic and Bobby Portis.

Is Gibson the solution at PF? A year or two ago I'd have said yes. Today? I don't know. And Snell is a defensive upgrade from McLemore but possibly even less consistent/effective on the offensive end. I don't know that I'd pull the trigger on that deal unless Chicago was also giving back the rights to the Kings pick.

Hmm.

I like Oladipo as a player but (1) I think his asking price would be too high and (2) he exacerbates the team's lack of outside shooting.

The tough part is that the Kings need both more defense AND more shooting at the SG spot which makes it tough to find a target that can be acquired with the trade pieces the team has.

 

[206Fan]

If there's a Magic trade, it's probably just Ben for Fournier straight up.

The Magic would laugh at our faces and never pick up the phone for us again.

Fournier has been playing amazing this year...

 

[sdballer]

The Magic would laugh at our faces and never pick up the phone for us again.

Fournier has been playing amazing this year...

Amazing might be a little strong. Per 36 minutes, Fournier averages another 3 and 1 assist per game than Ben. Not nearly as earth shattering as you are suggesting.

 

[LPKingsFan]

The Magic would laugh at our faces and never pick up the phone for us again.

Fournier has been playing amazing this year...

Sure, maybe not the best deal for the Magic. But certainly more realistic/reasonable than an Oladipo deal. And considering that Fournier is a pending unrestricted free agent, they might prefer adding to their young core with Ben rather than having to face the decision of losing Fournier for nothing or giving him decent $$$ while knowing Oladipo is their SG of the future.

 

[206Fan]

Amazing might be a little strong. Per 36 minutes, Fournier averages another 3 and 1 assist per game than Ben. Not nearly as earth shattering as you are suggesting.

I'm a huge Ben supporter, but stats don't tell the story.. I'm assuming you haven't watched the Magic a lot. He's balled out of his mind this year showing a ton as a ball handler, leader, and contributor. He has 100% confidence and is aggressive with every move.

He's really improved this year and he could honestly be the 2nd best on a team if he continues this improvement.

Fournier has played amazing this season compared to his last. He's going to get PAID this summer

 

[206Fan]

Sure, maybe not the best deal for the Magic. But certainly more realistic/reasonable than an Oladipo deal. And considering that Fournier is a pending unrestricted free agent, they might prefer adding to their young core with Ben rather than having to face the decision of losing Fournier for nothing or giving him decent $$$ while knowing Oladipo is their SG of the future.

He's a RFA and currently looking like the future SG of Orlando...Oladipo has been poor this year...big reason why he's now on the bench with Forunier starting.

 

[KingMilz]

What about this (works on trade machine)

Kings get Jarred Bayless and Solomon Hill both intense tough competitor's and Bayless can play the 2 or back up PG and brings intensity like no other guard we got. Hill is a elite athlete and good defender with great size lost in the shuffle in Indy (Hill can't shoot).

Bucks get Darren Collison they desperately need a PG who can space the floor and handle and Bayless is not as good at creating.

Indiana gets Damian Ingles who is a decent project for them since they know what Hill is already.

I like the idea of surrounding Cousins/Gay/Rondo if that's who we are building around with intense high energy guys like Bayless, Hill, Casspi, Acy and WCS since none of the core are high energy type guys.

 

[biltalent]

What about this (works on trade machine)

Kings get Jarred Bayless and Solomon Hill both intense tough competitor's and Bayless can play the 2 or back up PG and brings intensity like no other guard we got. Hill is a elite athlete and good defender with great size lost in the shuffle in Indy (Hill can't shoot).

Bucks get Darren Collison they desperately need a PG who can space the floor and handle and Bayless is not as good at creating.

Indiana gets Damian Ingles who is a decent project for them since they know what Hill is already.

I like the idea of surrounding Cousins/Gay/Rondo if that's who we are building around with intense high energy guys like Bayless, Hill, Casspi, Acy and WCS since none of the core are high energy type guys.

I like the idea of this trade. But if it would indeed be on the table, I think I don't talk to Indiana at all and just trade Collison for Bayless and Ingles

 

[KingMilz]

I like the idea of this trade. But if it would indeed be on the table, I think I don't talk to Indiana at all and just trade Collison for Bayless and Ingles

Yeah thats probably just the Solomon Hill fan in me trying to sneak him in some way. The thing is to me Hill right now can contribute while Ingles could be a diamond in the rough. But I agree the trade minus Indiana works as well.

 

[biltalent]

Yeah thats probably just the Solomon Hill fan in me trying to sneak him in some way. The thing is to me Hill right now can contribute while Ingles could be a diamond in the rough. But I agree the trade minus Indiana works as well.

Haha, well I am an Ingles fan, so the idea of having him is really appealing to me. But I agree, Hill can probably contribute sooner than Ingles.

But if we go after Hill, I wonder if we could get him without giving up an asset like Collison since Indiana didn't pick up his team option and he is a UFA.

 

[ESP47]

Some of these trades make sense for both sides.

Some of these trades are the types that fans of opposing teams post up on their boards to laugh at. No team is going to give us any of their top players for Ben McLemore, Darren Collison or Caron Butler.

 

[John Galt]

Collision & McLemore for Lance Stephenson works and there are reasons for both teams. Lance is out of the rotation in LA and Collison was at home there. They can park Ben on the bench and develop him. Stephenson steps in to start at SG and pick up Rondo's defensive slack.

 

[sdballer]

This whole thread has become an illustration of some fans not getting that the grass isn't always greener. Solomon hill, joe ingles, lance f'n Stephenson? Ben's better than those guys right now, let alone with some development. And "throwing in" collison? Yikes

 

[biltalent]

This whole thread has become an illustration of some fans not getting that the grass isn't always greener. Solomon hill, joe ingles, lance f'n Stephenson? Ben's better than those guys right now, let alone with some development. And "throwing in" collison? Yikes

Sorry for the misspelling, KingMilz and I actually meant 20 year-old Damian Inglis of the Bucks.
But I agree that Ben is better than all of those guys you mentioned. I would not touch Stephenson even if we would get him for free.
But I would not mind Inglis or Hill for the right price (not Ben).
For example, if the Pacers offer us Hill for Butler I take that deal. If the Bucks call and offer Bayless and Inglis for Collison and Anderson I listen and may take that deal.

 

[John Galt]

This whole thread has become an illustration of some fans not getting that the grass isn't always greener. Solomon hill, joe ingles, lance f'n Stephenson? Ben's better than those guys right now, let alone with some development. And "throwing in" collison? Yikes

He is???? By what objective standard?

 

[sdballer]

He is???? By what objective standard?

Solomon hill is averaging 2 points per game while shooting 6% from 3. He's got potential as a very good defender but is so useless on o that he can't get off the bench.

Damien Ingles has earned 42 total minutes in his career and in those minutes, he's made 2 total baskets.

The clippers have improved the more Stephenson sits and he's now 2 seasons removed from the one year where his productivity outweighed his antics.

For all of bens struggles, he's more productive than those 3 guys. Is there some objective standard I'm missing? If you told me me could get hill or ingles for one of our end of bench guys or a future 2nd, sign me up but I'm not a fan of reactionary trades for guys that are glued to other teams benches.

 

[PacMan]

Collision & McLemore for Lance Stephenson works and there are reasons for both teams. Lance is out of the rotation in LA and Collison was at home there. They can park Ben on the bench and develop him. Stephenson steps in to start at SG and pick up Rondo's defensive slack.

Stephenson needs the ball in his hand to be effective and he can't shoot very well. In Indiana, he did alot of the ball handling and George Hill supplied the shooting. This is the reason that he has not work out in Charlotte where Kenba Walker controls the ball or in LA where Chris Paul do most of the ball handling. It's even a worse pairing in Sacramento where Rondo not only does the ball handling, he can't shoot either as at least Walker and Paul has good range out to the three point line.

 

[ESP47]

I found him.

 

[KingMilz]

Solomon hill is averaging 2 points per game while shooting 6% from 3. He's got potential as a very good defender but is so useless on o that he can't get off the bench.

Damien Ingles has earned 42 total minutes in his career and in those minutes, he's made 2 total baskets.

The clippers have improved the more Stephenson sits and he's now 2 seasons removed from the one year where his productivity outweighed his antics.

For all of bens struggles, he's more productive than those 3 guys. Is there some objective standard I'm missing? If you told me me could get hill or ingles for one of our end of bench guys or a future 2nd, sign me up but I'm not a fan of reactionary trades for guys that are glued to other teams benches.

The trade to get Hill or Ingles had zero to do with Ben they were about swapping Collison for Bayless and getting one of those two to be a wing defender for us.

 

[Sac.Kings]

I still think our best shots at improving the SG spot (regardless of the players involved) lie with Kevin Martin and Victor Oladipo. Oladipo is the clear favorite to me for us (though he isn't a good shooter) and obviously very young and will be able to play on rookie contract for 2 more years. I think Oladipo is the best SG that we would have a prayer of getting. If I said this last season (when he was starting and playing well) I would have been laughed at, but now, not so much.