More hope...... maybe I shouldn't (Rubio rumor)
- Thread starter Dustinlikestodance
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Even if Rubio busts he's going to be an incredible upgrade to Beno and more wins to claim improvement on some level. Add in his flashy passes and looks and there will be way more tickets sold. I bet we get several nationally televised games as well if we draft him. Stern will help market this guy.
Lot of those things won't matter to serious basketball fans (like you) but from a marketing perspective that kid is a gold mine and far and above any other player in this draft.
Lot of those things won't matter to serious basketball fans (like you) but from a marketing perspective that kid is a gold mine and far and above any other player in this draft.
How do you know this? Not many people I know are thrilled with Beno as a starting point guard, but he's really a pretty good player. He's a perfectly competent backup and a fringe starter. He can do something Rubio can't, namely shoot. He's not taking you to the promised land, but there are a heck of a lot of point guards who he's better than, and I don't think it's such a sure thing that Rubio is already better than him. Rubio obviously has way more potential, but because of his athletic limitations he's also a bust risk.
No one cares about flashy players on bad teams. If Rubio doesn't live up to this insane hype, people are going to lose interest pretty quickly.
No one cares about flashy players on bad teams. If Rubio doesn't live up to this insane hype, people are going to lose interest pretty quickly.
Right away? Yeah, seriously.
Like I said, Rubio has a lot of potential. But anyone who is looking at this with clear eyes sees a player with some definite upside, but a lot of limitations at present. He is not very quick, he is turnover prone, and he struggles scoring.
He's done well in the Euro League, but so have a lot of guys who have been stars in the Euro League but flopped in the NBA, such as Sarunas Jasikevicius, who won all kinds of championships and awards and was widely regarded as the best player in Europe, but fell on his face in the NBA (and was not better than Beno).
Rubio also wasn't even particularly impressive in the Olympics, unless you simply give him credit for being there at his age.
Meanwhile, Beno's pretty decent. He's not great, but he's not terrible either.
I am probably being overly down on Rubio, but I think he's a definite risk, and you very rarely hear him spoken of in those terms around here. In the best case scenario he's a very good passer, decent defender, and, unless something drastically changes in his game, not a scorer at all. He's going to have to be a pretty insanely brilliant passer without turning the ball over too much in order to make that work, any team who drats him is going to have to be patient, and I think there's a pretty decent risk involved.
Like I said, Rubio has a lot of potential. But anyone who is looking at this with clear eyes sees a player with some definite upside, but a lot of limitations at present. He is not very quick, he is turnover prone, and he struggles scoring.
He's done well in the Euro League, but so have a lot of guys who have been stars in the Euro League but flopped in the NBA, such as Sarunas Jasikevicius, who won all kinds of championships and awards and was widely regarded as the best player in Europe, but fell on his face in the NBA (and was not better than Beno).
Rubio also wasn't even particularly impressive in the Olympics, unless you simply give him credit for being there at his age.
Meanwhile, Beno's pretty decent. He's not great, but he's not terrible either.
I am probably being overly down on Rubio, but I think he's a definite risk, and you very rarely hear him spoken of in those terms around here. In the best case scenario he's a very good passer, decent defender, and, unless something drastically changes in his game, not a scorer at all. He's going to have to be a pretty insanely brilliant passer without turning the ball over too much in order to make that work, any team who drats him is going to have to be patient, and I think there's a pretty decent risk involved.
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ok, fair enough. "Right now" as in if they both played in an NBA game today (Rubio's first) and compared impact is a little picky. Once Rubio gets his feet wet I doubt there is a GM in the league who thinks Beno will be better.
He's risky for the shooting reasons you mention, but he can thread a needle with his passing in a way that will translate to the NBA IMO. Will be interesting to watch him wherever he goes.
Anyway...the debate has been beaten to death already so no reason to rehash it. My point in posting was that he would improve the PG position, bring national and international attention, make the team more fun to watch, and thus be HUGE for marketing and selling tickets. I think you are just digging your heels in if you think he would have 0 impact there.
He's risky for the shooting reasons you mention, but he can thread a needle with his passing in a way that will translate to the NBA IMO. Will be interesting to watch him wherever he goes.
Anyway...the debate has been beaten to death already so no reason to rehash it. My point in posting was that he would improve the PG position, bring national and international attention, make the team more fun to watch, and thus be HUGE for marketing and selling tickets. I think you are just digging your heels in if you think he would have 0 impact there.
I assume that any lawsuit Rubio files in regard to the buyout would now feature the Spanish government as the defendants, and that Joventut is out of the loop.
Presumably any lawsuit need not be decided before next season - Rubio would simply break the contract while he is challenging the terms of the buyout. If his suit were to be unsuccessful, he would be required to pay the money once the judgment was rendered.
But again, I think this development actually puts an end to the "Rubio staying in Europe this year" hypothesis.
Presumably any lawsuit need not be decided before next season - Rubio would simply break the contract while he is challenging the terms of the buyout. If his suit were to be unsuccessful, he would be required to pay the money once the judgment was rendered.
But again, I think this development actually puts an end to the "Rubio staying in Europe this year" hypothesis.
I really wish Rubio would have participated in the combine so we could see his numbers apples to apples with the other guys in the draft.
Watching his old videos he looks super slow to me with a super funky shot. More recent footage he looks like he has moderate speed and has a smoother release. Who knows though...just an eyeball test
Watching his old videos he looks super slow to me with a super funky shot. More recent footage he looks like he has moderate speed and has a smoother release. Who knows though...just an eyeball test
I agree with you here. It would be nice to see something more recent. His shot looks smoother in the newer videos and I guess he shot 42% from 3 this year even if his overall shooting is somewhat poor, which I think goes to show that right now he can shoot while wide open and set but not so much off the dribble or when contested. Assuming his form gets better on pullups it might be something he can improve.
I guess I'll just go back to trusting Petrie.
I guess I'll just go back to trusting Petrie.
His shot definitely looks improved from the olympics and past videos. The 3pt% is nice, but it only really tells me what I already thought and that's he's already decent as a set shooter. Personally, I think with work he'll be able to get his shot off in time to shoot well over screens. If he can continue to get stronger and work on his pull up J, sky is the limit with him.
I think a fair comparison to make in the shooting department is Rubio and Tony Parker in his first few years in the league. Parker couldn't hit a wide open 15 ft jumper, but now can hit contested 20ft jumpers off the dribble or in a pick and roll situation. I am not saying that Rubio will develope into the shooter Parker has become, but it shows that consistent hard work pays off and at age 18 he has plenty of time to improve his shot.
Had a hard time finding this, but here are the Rubio highlights from that game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnSdspEuaSE
Few observations:
no outside shooting here which is consistent with his reported weaknesses
His speed is just ok in a real world comparison to the NBA's best, but not bad
He uses his craftiness and change of direction to beat his man rather than raw speed. It allowed him to fly by his defender more than once including an embarrassing play Deron Williams would rather forget at 2:25
His passing and floor leadership are particularly impressive throughout
His defense is very active and smart. He created a few turnovers
He is not afraid of contact on either end of the floor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnSdspEuaSE
Few observations:
no outside shooting here which is consistent with his reported weaknesses
His speed is just ok in a real world comparison to the NBA's best, but not bad
He uses his craftiness and change of direction to beat his man rather than raw speed. It allowed him to fly by his defender more than once including an embarrassing play Deron Williams would rather forget at 2:25
His passing and floor leadership are particularly impressive throughout
His defense is very active and smart. He created a few turnovers
He is not afraid of contact on either end of the floor
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That video leaves out a whole lot. It's possible to watch that whole game online. Just watch Rubio bring up the ball against Jason Kidd on the first possession and tell me about his speed.
He had a few good plays (really good). But for the most part he was not very impressive, and that video leaves out his defensive lapses (Spain had to switch to a zone when Chris Paul was in), how he disappeared for stretches, and how he blew any chance of a comeback in the closing minute by getting called for a dumb technical foul.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=1444024&channelcode=sportbka
He had a few good plays (really good). But for the most part he was not very impressive, and that video leaves out his defensive lapses (Spain had to switch to a zone when Chris Paul was in), how he disappeared for stretches, and how he blew any chance of a comeback in the closing minute by getting called for a dumb technical foul.
http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/player.html?assetid=1444024&channelcode=sportbka
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Wow thanks for that.
I think an important note here is that Ricky was the point guard playing for a team that was down 89-91 in the 4th quarter of a championship level game against essentially an NBA all-star team.
I believe that qualifies as 'good enough for a 4th pick'.
edit: and OH NO!!! a 17 year old lost his poise in a gold metal game and got a technical?
I think an important note here is that Ricky was the point guard playing for a team that was down 89-91 in the 4th quarter of a championship level game against essentially an NBA all-star team.
I believe that qualifies as 'good enough for a 4th pick'.
edit: and OH NO!!! a 17 year old lost his poise in a gold metal game and got a technical?
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I'm not sure why people try to use that against Rubio honestly. As Mookie said A 17 year old lost his poise in a gold medal game against one of the best "Dream Teams" we have assembled in awhile. If anything people should be happy at how he did perform and look at it as a great base to build on. We got to see something with him we rarely get to see with a possible draft pick and that is how he actually plays against the top tier NBA players before draft day.. I think he's full of potential, and I believe he can meet it. The olympic videos shows he can easily hang with the big boys as development comes and who knows past that.
Great logic. Theodoros Papaloukas was the PG of a team who BEAT TeamUSA, maybe we should pay him the max.
And I love how Rubio gets all this credit for being good for a 18 year old, but when he gets a technical people are so quick to be all, "He's just 18!!!"
Anyone else would get called a total knucklehead for doing the same thing, and rightly so.
And I'll go there: Can you imagine if an African American player lost an NCAA Championship game because of a technical in the closing seconds? "But he's just 18!!!" would not be the response.
And I love how Rubio gets all this credit for being good for a 18 year old, but when he gets a technical people are so quick to be all, "He's just 18!!!"
Anyone else would get called a total knucklehead for doing the same thing, and rightly so.
And I'll go there: Can you imagine if an African American player lost an NCAA Championship game because of a technical in the closing seconds? "But he's just 18!!!" would not be the response.
Oh, come on now! Stop being dramatic; that's just preposterous.
I'll agree with you in that it was stupid. It was stupid to get a technical. Why not take into account his usual temperment, though? He's a good character guy. Discounting him because of a technical would be crazy. And yes, of course his age should be taken into account? Your argument made little sense. Why wouldn't his play at such a young age be looked at as a plus? And why wouldn't a silly technical be attributed, at least partially, to his youth?
Look, I won't get into this again. In fact, I completely agree with you on your skepticism about his weaknesses. I am eager to see if he will overcome them (I think he will). However, if people are expecting him to be a franchise player, they are going to be disappointed. He is a better athlete than advertised, but he is not spectacular. Will never be a bonafide star. IMO, he will be a very good PG for a long time. He'll bring excitement, hustle, passing, blah-dy blah-dy blah. You know the rest.
But no, no franchise player.
And another thing, Rubio did not lose the game for Spain. They were already down. And this isn't the NCAA; he wasn't playing against some kids who would go on to become doctors and physicians. He was playing against a dream team. The situation is completely different, and AFAIC, makes no actual point.
I remember this player, black, as it happens... shortly after his 19th birthday, having just lost a game, he really got in the face of this cameraman who was trying to take his picture, and flat out screamed at him. Yeah, he was criticized for it, although not enough to make GMs blind to his potential. He was extremely driven, and barely older than your average HS senior...
Almost exactly a year later, he was in a huge playoff game, down 2 points with 11 seconds to go, and got himself T'ed up. And it was a stupider T than Rubio's, losing a winnable game by calling a timeout when Michigan didn't have any timeouts left. But that didn't stop CWebb from being a #1 draft pick a few months later, or from being a great NBA player.
A lot of great players have done idiotic things when they were in their teens. Heck, I did idiotic things in my own teens, come to think of it! Didn't you?
Almost exactly a year later, he was in a huge playoff game, down 2 points with 11 seconds to go, and got himself T'ed up. And it was a stupider T than Rubio's, losing a winnable game by calling a timeout when Michigan didn't have any timeouts left. But that didn't stop CWebb from being a #1 draft pick a few months later, or from being a great NBA player.
A lot of great players have done idiotic things when they were in their teens. Heck, I did idiotic things in my own teens, come to think of it! Didn't you?