Monta

Monta Ellis (POLL NEW)


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there are so many things wrong with this new direction, but amount of turnovers is not one of them.

Top 3 turnover guys are Harden, Holiday and Kobe, next one being Durant. Who would refuse any 3 of them to be on the same team?
Vasquez has exactly one thing going on for him, A/T ratio of close to 3 puts him in the category with Jrue, Rondo, Parker, Lawson... right behind Paul and Calderon.
Monta has ratio of 2, nothing special but far from awful.
Cus is bad at passing, but he is a center and not an option of not being on the team.
No, he's not.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
I still firmly believe that the only reason for pulling the offer sheet so quickly was that they got a call from the Warriors' FO who told them to kindly step off, as they were targeting Iggy.
Then they should have told them to up their own offer. It's time to play with the big boys.
 
his A/T is below 1.

Here is the list of big man with better A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
Griffin, Lee, Horford, Aldridge, Diaw, Boozer, Scola, Jefferson, Gasol M., Monroe, Hawes, P Gasol, Noah, Varejao, Nene, Duncan, Love, Garnett, McRoberts, Glen Davis, Bogut

Here is the list of big man with worst A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
...

He has good hands, but has a long way to learn how to pass efficently.
 
Sounds ridiculous but maybe the Ellis deal is important to the FO because it maybe their best chance to get rid of couple of guys AND get a starting (?) SF in Gee. It does sound ridiculous but they might have the rest of the deal lined up but Ellis won't go along. Hope it stays that way.
 
I believe Dave's right. It's ok to have different opinions, it's ok to criticize PDA, but when you start calling for PDA's head and new owners after 8 days of free agency, It's just too much. I mean, nobody's happy if we sign Monta. Maybe it's true, it's Vivek who wants him, even if it's the worst possible fit for this team, and definitely the last thing we need. But, I prefer to have Monta AND the Kings in Sacramento, if this makes Vivek happy. I believe he's earned the right to sign a player he likes...

That said, I hope the Hawks sign Ellis, I really don't want him here.
Agreed. Sign Ellis if you want. I'm happy the team is here.
 
his A/T is below 1.

Here is the list of big man with better A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
Griffin, Lee, Horford, Aldridge, Diaw, Boozer, Scola, Jefferson, Gasol M., Monroe, Hawes, P Gasol, Noah, Varejao, Nene, Duncan, Love, Garnett, McRoberts, Glen Davis, Bogut

Here is the list of big man with worst A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
...

He has good hands, but has a long way to learn how to pass efficently.
Having a bad A/T ratio doesn't mean he's a bad passer. Most of the time he turns the ball over trying to do to much to score or dribble. DMC is an excellent passer for a big man.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
Sounds ridiculous but maybe the Ellis deal is important to the FO because it maybe their best chance to get rid of couple of guys AND get a starting (?) SF in Gee. It does sound ridiculous but they might have the rest of the deal lined up but Ellis won't go along. Hope it stays that way.
Something like this. I'm thinking that Ellis regrets not taking that offer from the Bucks unless he just wanted out of there....which is funny now that Brandon Jennings might also be gone. If they can get rid of some contracts and get Monta for 8-10 million, that is a good move irregardless of our logjam.....getting talent is not a bad thing. Dumping some of these contracts is not a bad thing. Eventually getting our SF would be a good thing but what we going to get for Jimmer or Hayes or Thornton?
 
Having a bad A/T ratio doesn't mean he's a bad passer. Most of the time he turns the ball over trying to do to much to score or dribble. DMC is an excellent passer for a big man.
There is a big range between bad and excellent.

I do not think he is worse than some folks listed above due to his different style, but he is far from excellent even if we narrow it down just to big man.

Things are getting out of the context little bit. My statement was "Cus is bad at passing, but he is a center and not an option of not being on the team." in context that having top TO's on a team (regardless position) is not something to complain about. So many other things are though.

I think that for a big man he is at least ok, with potential to be very good, again for a big man.
 
Then they should have told them to up their own offer. It's time to play with the big boys.
my theory is that they told PDA they needed Iggy in order to make a play for Howard and that said they might make Barnes and Bogut available for us had they succeeded. pretty sure Iggy wasn't coming here anyway. just not buying the "he only used us for leverage" argument, when his preference apparently always was to play for a contender.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
his A/T is below 1.

Here is the list of big man with better A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
Griffin, Lee, Horford, Aldridge, Diaw, Boozer, Scola, Jefferson, Gasol M., Monroe, Hawes, P Gasol, Noah, Varejao, Nene, Duncan, Love, Garnett, McRoberts, Glen Davis, Bogut

Here is the list of big man with worst A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
...

He has good hands, but has a long way to learn how to pass efficently.
No, he's one of the best big man passers. Not even close.

As with most things Cuz, people focused on what he can't do or the inefficiencies of youth...well let's just say you would miss out on a large percentage of today's great players who come into the league so young.

A/T is a poor way to assess big man passing, especially when you are comparing players who are primary offensive weapons. Similar to the mistake made with Reke -- aggressive offensive weapons, and especially aggressive offensive weapons with to the hoops games, make a number of turnovers that have nothing to do with passing. Now Cuz also makes numerous passing turnovers, but the fact of the matter is he also makes passes that only a handful of NBA bigs can make.

Early in his career Vlade had a negative A/T ratio too. Through the first 3 years of Vlade's career he notched 227 assists to 344 turnovers. Had nothing to do with his passing ability. Just young.
 
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his A/T is below 1.

Here is the list of big man with better A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
Griffin, Lee, Horford, Aldridge, Diaw, Boozer, Scola, Jefferson, Gasol M., Monroe, Hawes, P Gasol, Noah, Varejao, Nene, Duncan, Love, Garnett, McRoberts, Glen Davis, Bogut

Here is the list of big man with worst A/T last season and at least 2 assists:
...

He has good hands, but has a long way to learn how to pass efficently.
I will agree that his passing numbers do not make him appear to be a good passer, but having watched most of his games as a pro, he makes passes on a fairly regular basis that most big men can't/don't make. I would argue that he's a very talented passer who needs to become more efficient.
 
No, he's one of the best big man passers. Not even close.

As with most things Cuz, people focused on what he can't do or the inefficiencies of youth...well let's just say you would miss out on a large percentage of today's great players who come into the league so young.

A/T is a poor way to assess big man passing, especially when you are comparing players who are primary offensive weapons. Similar to the mistake made with Reke -- aggressive offensive weapons, and especially aggressive offensive weapons with to the hoops games, make a number of turnovers that have nothing to do with passing. Now Cuz also makes numerous passing turnovers, but the fact of the matter is he also makes passes that only a handful of NBA bigs can make.

Early in his career Vlade had a negative A/T ratio too. Through the first 3 years of Vlade's career he notched 227 assists to 344 turnovers. Had nothing to do with his passing ability. Just young.
Just young, yep... he has potential to be the great passing big man.

Right now, he is not there yet.
 
I will agree that his passing numbers do not make him appear to be a good passer, but having watched most of his games as a pro, he makes passes on a fairly regular basis that most big men can't/don't make. I would argue that he's a very talented passer who needs to become more efficient.
yep.
 
That's not true, he is an amazing passer. He currently isn't an efficient passer. Those are different things.
???
In general, if you want to help the team with your passing you better be efficient, otherwise team is better without your amazing passes followed by turnovers.

Regarding Cousins, he has very good chance to learn to be efficient as well ... but he is not now.
 
there are so many things wrong with this new direction, but amount of turnovers is not one of them.

Top 3 turnover guys are Harden, Holiday and Kobe, next one being Durant. Who would refuse any 3 of them to be on the same team?
Vasquez has exactly one thing going on for him, A/T ratio of close to 3 puts him in the category with Jrue, Rondo, Parker, Lawson... right behind Paul and Calderon.
Monta has ratio of 2, nothing special but far from awful.
Cus is bad at passing, but he is a center and not an option of not being on the team.
Monta and Vasquez are not Kobe, Harden , Holiday or Durant.... not even close. Sure if we had two superstars in the backcourt it woudnt be such a big deal, but we dont with those two guys..

I understand Vasquez had the ball in his hands for 90 % of the time last year, trying too make plays.. So Im going too cut him the most slack on the TO's. He will actually have a PG too back him up in Sac in IT so I could see his TO's go down.

But Monta is just baddddd, man. his stats and my Eye test prove it, to me at least. He dosent value the ball carefully. And despite what you say, I think turnover control will be a key part too our success.

Im not saying Cousins is a bad passer either.. I think he could be great in that area. Especially With Shaq helping him, who I think is one of the alltime great bigman passers. But as of right now Cousins turns it over wayyy too much.
 
nothing new, but seems like we're trying awfully hard to snatch Monta



The thing I don't understand is if Vivek and co. were irked that Iggy was taking his sweet time to commit to the Kings (though I firmly believe he was using us as leverage), why don't they get the same vibe from Monta who likes other teams ala Atlanta. Also a leverage play may be happening, but odd that they are gushing over Monta.
As soon as Monta goes to the media outright lying over our offer I suspect they would pull it
 
???
In general, if you want to help the team with your passing you better be efficient, otherwise team is better without your amazing passes followed by turnovers.

Regarding Cousins, he has very good chance to learn to be efficient as well ... but he is not now.
Your missing the point. Getting a traveling call or offensive foul has nothing to do with passing and those are counted as turnovers.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
Not really:
Chris Broussard ‏@Chris_Broussard 19s
Sources: Monta Ellis hoping to choose btwn ATL, Sacramento, Charlotte and Dallas within next 36-48 hours
The rest is a bunch of chatter recycling old stories/blog posts, and random fans hoping that Ellis goes to the other teams as opposed to their own. ;)
 
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Your missing the point. Getting a traveling call or offensive foul has nothing to do with passing and those are counted as turnovers.
If he does not have those TO's he would be an awful passer today, which he is not.
He is making his fare share of bad passes, with time he will most probably learn how to avoid them.
 
Not really:

The rest is a bunch of chatter recycling old stories/blog posts, and random fans hoping that Ellis goes to the other teams as opposed to their own. ;)
If he has the equal chance to choose between the 4 destinations, we could probably put the rumor to rest.
 
Monta and Vasquez are not Kobe, Harden , Holiday or Durant.... not even close. Sure if we had two superstars in the backcourt it woudnt be such a big deal, but we dont with those two guys..

I understand Vasquez had the ball in his hands for 90 % of the time last year, trying too make plays.. So Im going too cut him the most slack on the TO's. He will actually have a PG too back him up in Sac in IT so I could see his TO's go down.

But Monta is just baddddd, man. his stats and my Eye test prove it, to me at least. He dosent value the ball carefully. And despite what you say, I think turnover control will be a key part too our success.

Im not saying Cousins is a bad passer either.. I think he could be great in that area. Especially With Shaq helping him, who I think is one of the alltime great bigman passers. But as of right now Cousins turns it over wayyy too much.
We are not far apart in evaluation.
For simplicity, lets say that only those 3 guys do all the passing and turnovers. 18 ast vs 9 TO is not too bad.

Just saying that there are so many other things that are wrong with Ellis on this team, TO being the least of them.
 
Actually we signed him to a 7 year 120MM contract. We got a special exception from the league to exceed the cap and max contract size because of what our fan base went through. We just are just trying to soak it all in before we start the welcome Monta thread. How did you miss that?
 
Moving forward, Kings do need another scorer in the starting lineup, and IF Pete'D views Monta as a scoring PG (like Westbrook, Parker) then this sorta' makes a little sense. It's a little harder to swallow if I look at it like the Kings are choosing Monta over Tyreke, but this is where the team is at. I'm not a huge fan of either guy, but Monta + MLM could be a decent backcourt. Vazquez off the bench.

Now, overall Monta has had two major off the court red flags; the "moped" incident, and the sexual harassment suit at GSW. Not sure how this new management team overlooks that since they were front and center to both. Well, we'll see soon enough...
 
Not really:

The rest is a bunch of chatter recycling old stories/blog posts, and random fans hoping that Ellis goes to the other teams as opposed to their own. ;)
I really hope he goes to Charlotte... Can you imagine the Monta - Gordon - Jefferson on the court together? :cool:
 
Actually we signed him to a 7 year 120MM contract. We got a special exception from the league to exceed the cap and max contract size because of what our fan base went through. We just are just trying to soak it all in before we start the welcome Monta thread. How did you miss that?
Im also reading reports that he's already sexually harassed Slamson.
 
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