Luka Doncic

[Sac.1989]

what gives you the idea that Fox will be included in any trade after his rookie season, who the team was really high on pre-draft workouts and post? This is all speculation on our part.

We traded cousins after the team publicly endorsed him and were perceived to be really high on him. Its the same regime running the show. I expect exploratory talks at the very least.

Doesnt have to necessarily involve Fox but i believe it will.

 

[206Fan]

We will make a play for him for sure. Fox will be offered its just a matter of if the team(s) with the top picks would see that as fair value

This FO doesn't like Doncic enough. If they did, they would've tanked for him imo.

This FO is massively in love with Fox. I don't see them trading him anytime soon.

 

[Sac.1989]

This FO doesn't like Doncic enough. If they did, they would've tanked for him imo.

This FO is massively in love with Fox. I don't see them trading him anytime soon.

Time will tell. If we can retain Fox and Buddy and somehow add Doncic it would be a huge coup.

I dont think tanking was every a concrete part of our strategy or else we would have done it regardless. There are great alternatives at the top of the draft even without Doncic and my hope was that we would land there but alas not to be.

 

[kingsboi]

We traded cousins after the team publicly endorsed him and were perceived to be really high on him. Its the same regime running the show. I expect exploratory talks at the very least.

Doesnt have to necessarily involve Fox but i believe it will.

Cousins didn't get traded as soon as he arrived nor was he involved in any real trade rumors other than the ones created by the media or the teams interested. Fox has some lee-way here to improve and as far as I'm concerned, he is one of the two untouchables on this roster IMO.

 

[Sac.1989]

Cousins didn't get traded as soon as he arrived nor was he involved in any real trade rumors other than the ones created by the media or the teams interested. Fox has some lee-way here to improve and as far as I'm concerned, he is one of the two untouchables on this roster IMO.

I tend to agree but i dont trust any notion that no one is untouchable. Vlade will trade anyone if he feels the future is brighter

 

[Joshoua]

what gives you the idea that Fox will be included in any trade after his rookie season, who the team was really high on pre-draft workouts and post? This is all speculation on our part.

Cause you trade Fox for a franchise player like Doncic if given a chance. But teams won’t be doing that trade with us

 

[ockingsfan]

Fox has some lee-way here to improve and as far as I'm concerned, he is one of the two untouchables on this roster IMO.

Who is the other untouchable?

 

[The Effort Police]

This FO doesn't like Doncic enough. If they did, they would've tanked for him imo.

This FO is massively in love with Fox. I don't see them trading him anytime soon.

I've learned to not underestimate this FO's stupidity. I fully expect they may give up assets to get him when they could've just tanked.

 

[bajaden]

This FO doesn't like Doncic enough. If they did, they would've tanked for him imo.

This FO is massively in love with Fox. I don't see them trading him anytime soon.

So, using your analogy, the FO doesn't like Doncic, Ayton, JJJ, and likely Bagley, because any of them are likely to be in the top three, and if they liked any of them, they would have tanked for them. So they don't like any of the best players in this draft. They didn't tank because they wanted to be assured of getting a lesser player... Yeah, I think I understand that....

 

[bajaden]

I've learned to not underestimate this FO's stupidity. I fully expect they may give up assets to get him when they could've just tanked.

Sooooo, what happens when you tank, and then a team jumps over you. Perhaps three teams jump over you, which is what happened when the Kings had the worse record in the NBA. There is no guarantee that the Kings could have gotten Doncic if they had tanked their way to the worse record. And, their's still a chance they might be the team that leapfrogs to the top position.

 

[206Fan]

So, using your analogy, the FO doesn't like Doncic, Ayton, JJJ, and likely Bagley, because any of them are likely to be in the top three, and if they liked any of them, they would have tanked for them. So they don't like any of the best players in this draft. They didn't tank because they wanted to be assured of getting a lesser player... Yeah, I think I understand that....

Yeah, if they truly loved Doncic as a prospect and wanted him on this team, then they would've tanked to get him. Or at least hand the keys to our young guys sooner instead of trying to feature a heavy ZBO offense and aim for wins. I honestly don't care what stats say, because I'm pretty sure we would've lost more games without ZBo. Until Buddy's late emergence, ZBo was the only player on offense who could consistently create his own offense. He was our best offensive option.
Going back to the Kings, we obviously didn't value Doncic as high as the other lotto teams. If we did, then we would've been tanking for him side by side with them. Look at how those teams(Suns, Dallas, Hawks, and Grizzlies) were out there blatanlty losing games for a chance at Doncic/Ayton.The Kings made choices this year. So in theory, they probably had a plan from the very start and knew that they were going to pick in the 5-10 range. That tells me they view very little talent difference between the top 5 and the next 5. If this wasn't their plan to begin with, then it's even worse they didn't have this part of the plan mapped out.

See, this is why I have trouble getting behind this FO. This is the same exact problem we faced before trading Cousins. They changed their plans almost every year. There's 0 continuity from the last season to the next. This year they were firm on what they wanted to do...rebuild and develop. They already said at the beginning that it would be a long process. If it's a multi-year process, then they should have multiple years mapped out. That's what a good FO would do during a rebuild. Are they still following their own plans? Or are they just riding along the waves? I'm inclined to pick the later. What was the 1/2 year George Hill experiment about? What was waiving Papagiannis about after accepting his offer for next year? Or how about completely giving up on Malachi?

I don't know how things work in the NBA, but I'd assume if you're committed towards a 2-3 year rebuild, then you should have a plan all mapped out. I just don't see it with this FO.To make matters worse, they know we won't be without a 2019 pick, so it makes this 2018 pick tens times as important... yet here we are, standing at #7 in the lotto...nowhere near reach of Luka Doncic.

 

[jiimbob]

I have pretty much settled on if we can get Doncic do it. Likely we will have to trade a player or two plus a pick swap to get him. I like Fox, Buddy, and Bogdan a lot, still Donic as part of a trio has greater potential.
Willi as part of the trade would be fine too knowing now Kosta is opting in. Then throw good money at one of the frequently mentioned FA bigs.

 

[kingsboi]

Who is the other untouchable?

Giles, only because we don't know what we have in him and his ceiling is very high so trading an unknown before hand isn't in the Kings' best interest

 

[kingsboi]

Cause you trade Fox for a franchise player like Doncic if given a chance. But teams won’t be doing that trade with us

you are all ready labeling Doncic a franchise player? I don't know about that one.

 

[kingsboi]

I tend to agree but i dont trust any notion that no one is untouchable. Vlade will trade anyone if he feels the future is brighter

unless a young player or two is packaged for a star player, not out of his prime, then sure....otherwise, making no moves sometimes is the best move and just let the team grow together with what you've assembled, not talking about the vets of course that need to go

 

[Joshoua]

you are all ready labeling Doncic a franchise player? I don't know about that one.

I mean people label player franchise talent every year and I believe Luka could be a franchise talent

 

[kingsboi]

I mean people label player franchise talent every year and I believe Luka could be a franchise talent

I believe he is a all-star talent but not a franchise player type of talent, Ayton is more of a franchise player to me.

 

[206Fan]

A the beginning of this season, I largely questioned his size and defensive position. Mostly because there's different sites with different heights. Real Madrid had him listed at 6'4.9" w/o shoes 218lbs, while Euroleague has at 6'5 w/o shoes. He'd only be at 6'7 218lbs..which isn't big enough to guard SFs. He's also not quick enough to guard SGs. So he'd be a massive liability on that end.

However, the draft guys have been listing him at 6'8 228lbs. I also think he's gotten bigger since the beginning of the year. It means he's big enough to guard SFs and play that position, so this concern has been thrown entirely out of the window for me.

I have him as my #1 over Ayton now.

 

[Joshoua]

I believe he is a all-star talent but not a franchise player type of talent, Ayton is more of a franchise player to me.

Ayton is a 7 foot Andrew Wiggins

Also if your center isn’t an elite defender he better be Boogie/Embiid on offense which I don’t think Ayton will be. The reason I have Doncic ahead of him.

 

[206Fan]

I believe he is a all-star talent but not a franchise player type of talent, Ayton is more of a franchise player to me.

It just depends on what type of role you put Doncic in. Just an example, I never thought Ben Simmons would average around 8apg,. I didn't think he was that type of a passer, yet here he is with 8apg in his rookie year. Brett Brown put him in a certain role that highlighted his passing. With Doncic, I just think you have to put him in the right role.

Jokic is another player who I didn't think could carry his own team. I didn't think he could be a #1 scoring option, he was always passive and we saw this against the Kings. He's also pretty slow and unathletic, I didn't think his unorthodox self could score 20+ppg in this league. This year he's posting up 18.5pts 10.7rebs 6.1asts on 49.9/39.6/85.0. He's trending to 20ppg and more.

 

[kingsboi]

Ayton is a 7 foot Andrew Wiggins

Also if your center isn’t an elite defender he better be Boogie/Embiid on offense which I don’t think Ayton will be. The reason I have Doncic ahead of him.

a seven foot Andrew Wiggins...hmm, funny you bring that up considering Wiggins was hyped as the next big star wing coming out of Kansas and then he disappointed and has yet to reach his potential because he goes through the motions. You mean to tell me you can evaluate a player in one year at college and say he is all ready a labeled player? It's too early, far too many times you and I both see players are in different settings, systems, environments and they either blossom or they flop. With Ayton, it's an unknown as much as it is with Doncic but if I were a GM, I'd draft Ayton number one and not regret it.

 

[kingsboi]

It just depends on what type of role you put Doncic in. Just an example, I never thought Ben Simmons would average around 8apg,. I didn't think he was that type of a passer, yet here he is with 8apg in his rookie year. Brett Brown put him in a certain role that highlighted his passing. With Doncic, I just think you have to put him in the right role.

Jokic is another player who I didn't think could carry his own team. I didn't think he could be a #1 scoring option, he was always passive and we saw this against the Kings. He's also pretty slow and unathletic, I didn't think his unorthodox self could score 20+ppg in this league. This year he's posting up 18.5pts 10.7rebs 6.1asts on 49.9/39.6/85.0. He's trending to 20ppg and more.

so with that said then, what type of role would you have Doncic play? main ball distributor or sharing ball handling duties? because it seems to me he needs the ball in his hands full time like a Ricky Rubio to be effective if he isn't scoring off the ball or making crisp cuts, etc.

 

[206Fan]

so with that said then, what type of role would you have Doncic play? main ball distributor or sharing ball handling duties? because it seems to me he needs the ball in his hands full time like a Ricky Rubio to be effective if he isn't scoring off the ball or making crisp cuts, etc.

From what I recall, Fran Fraschilla doesn't think Doncic should be your primary PG.

Here's what Mike Schmitz said about Doncic in his latest ESPN article

How do you use Doncic?
There's little question that Doncic will be a successful NBA player. The real topic teams are pondering is whether or not Doncic projects as a franchise building block or a high-end starter on a really good team.

Here's the skinny on his game:

• Modern perimeter player with a versatile skill set; best skills are unleashed when he has the ball in his hands
• Electric attacking rebounds and pushing tempo in the open floor
• Pick-and-roll tactician who dissects help defenses with cross-court darts and high-velocity hook passes
• More effective shooter off the bounce (69th percentile) than off the catch (48th percentile), regularly creating space to get to his patented step-back going left
• Dances on the perimeter against switches, lulling bigs to sleep before pulling up

On the flip side:

• Struggles mightily as the primary ball handler without much backcourt help
• Had issues against aggressive defensive pressure all season
• Doesn't have the wiggle to break down rangier athletes consistently, and easily slowed by hard hedges and switches from agile bigs
• At 6-foot-8, 228 pounds, he's at his best defending wings instead of guards

I think Doncic should be your primary ball handler. However, I think you should have a PG next to him. Just a speedster who can drive and dish, but also play off-ball. DX alluded to this, I'd definitely put him in a James Harden role.

 

[biltalent]

From what I recall, Fran Fraschilla doesn't think Doncic should be your primary PG.

Here's what Mike Schmitz said about Doncic in his latest ESPN article

I think Doncic should be your primary ball handler. However, I think you should have a PG next to him. Just a speedster who can drive and dish, but also play off-ball. DX alluded to this, I'd definitely put him in a James Harden role.

Exactly. For everyone that wonders how to use him, re-watch his national team tape from this summer. He was paired with Goran Dragic and it worked beautifully. You put him in a flowing movement offense, move the ball side to side and let him make reads and pick apart defenses off secondary pick and roll action.

 

[ESP47]

I don't think Fox and Doncic would be able to coexist. Doncic would be better next to a Darren Collison or prime George Hill type PG. If we somehow win the lottery and draft Doncic, I'd ship Fox out while he still has value. I'd also probably trade Fox if it guaranteed us getting Doncic but I'd be kicking the FO in the you know what because they could have had Doncic no matter what if they would have tanked properly. At that point, Fox could be traded for a position of need and we could have the best of both worlds. But that's not how the Kings operate.

 

[206Fan]

I don't think Fox and Doncic would be able to coexist. Doncic would be better next to a Darren Collison or prime George Hill type PG. If we somehow win the lottery and draft Doncic, I'd ship Fox out while he still has value. I'd also probably trade Fox if it guaranteed us getting Doncic but I'd be kicking the FO in the you know what because they could have had Doncic no matter what if they would have tanked properly. At that point, Fox could be traded for a position of need and we could have the best of both worlds. But that's not how the Kings operate.

I thought about it more and more, and here's what DX said about Doncic's potential fit with the Kings:

The ultra-twitchy Fox is still quite green and not comfortable off the ball yet, but he projects as a plus defender and has the necessary breakdown tools. In the interim, Mason is a great fit as a plus spot shooter, physical defender and downhill driver. Bogdanovic can space the floor, play second-side pick-and-roll and defend quality 2s. Jackson has some value as a quick-action scorer and potential spacer, Hield gives Doncic a deadeye shooter and Temple is a sound veteran presence in the locker room.

The Kings lack versatile perimeter defenders to cover up some of Doncic's deficiencies, but at least he wouldn't be stuck guarding 1s. Although he hasn't come close to maximizing his potential, Cauley-Stein -- entering a contract year -- is an ideal 5 for Doncic when engaged. The Kings staff raves about Giles, who can also fill that dynamic roller spot when healthy.

Overall, though, the Kings are still finding their direction long-term, and Doncic could take time adjusting.

I used to be adamant against the Fox-Doncic pairing, but after some time, I think it would be ok. Fox would just need to learn how to play off-ball and really improve his spot-up shooting. Can the two co-exist and play basketball at a maximum level? I don't know. I think Fox is best with the ball his hands, and Doncic is best with the ball in his hands. But there's only 1 ball. You'd really need Fox to develop his 3pt shot for any chance of it to workout between the two.

Doncic being the playmaker and facilitator would allow Fox to be a scoring guard. He looks much more comfortable in that role vs. being a distributor anyways.

 

[ESP47]

I thought about it more and more, and here's what DX said about Doncic's potential fit with the Kings:



I used to be adamant against the Fox-Doncic pairing, but after some time, I think it would be ok. Fox would just need to learn how to play off-ball and really improve his spot-up shooting. Can the two co-exist and play basketball at a maximum level? I don't know. I think Fox is best with the ball his hands, and Doncic is best with the ball in his hands. But there's only 1 ball. You'd really need Fox to develop his 3pt shot for any chance of it to workout between the two.

Doncic being the playmaker and facilitator would allow Fox to be a scoring guard. He looks much more comfortable in that role vs. being a distributor anyways.

I just don't see it. Doncic and Fox being a good pairing means that most of Fox's biggest weaknesses are going to have to be turned into strengths. Doncic's 3 point shooting hasn't really been rock solid up until this point either so you could potentially have a big clash of weaknesses out there. I'm not saying it would be impossible for them to coexist but I wouldn't place my future playoff run on them being able to play together. If a team wanted to give me a player for Fox that fit in perfectly with Doncic and co., I'd do it. If his trade value isn't enough to land me a player I want, then I'd roll the dice and see what happens between them.

 

[ockingsfan]

I don't think Fox and Doncic would be able to coexist. Doncic would be better next to a Darren Collison or prime George Hill type PG. If we somehow win the lottery and draft Doncic, I'd ship Fox out while he still has value. I'd also probably trade Fox if it guaranteed us getting Doncic but I'd be kicking the FO in the you know what because they could have had Doncic no matter what if they would have tanked properly. At that point, Fox could be traded for a position of need and we could have the best of both worlds. But that's not how the Kings operate.

First off, Fox is not going anywhere, regardless of who we draft this year.

Secondly, I really don't see an issue with a Fox and Doncic pairing at PG and SF. Fox would need to improve his 3 point shooting for sure, but he has shown that he has a decent shot, that can be developed. I think Doncic's 3 point shot looks pretty good so far and can be honed.

The myth that two ball dominant players can't coexist and thrive is not true. GSW have Curry and Durant, Houston has Paul and Harden, and Cleveland had LeBron and Kyrie. Those are the 3 most ball dominant duos in the league and they all thrived and dominated the league together.

The key is to spread and move the ball and with the two very good ball handlers at PG and SF, you open up the other spots to players that have a niche role, like Buddy as a 3 point bomber, WCS as a mobile, running big, and hopefully Giles as your prolific big man scorer and rebounder. Bogdan can be the primary ball handler and weapon off the bench.

I think that if the Kings are lucky enough to be in position to take Doncic, you take him and run.

The Kings would have a very young and exciting team with this lineup:

PF: Giles / Skal / ZBO
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Shumpert
C: WCS / KK / ZBo
SG: Heild/ Bogdan / Temple
PG: Fox / Mason

 

[Joshoua]

First off, Fox is not going anywhere, regardless of who we draft this year.

Secondly, I really don't see an issue with a Fox and Doncic pairing at PG and SF. Fox would need to improve his 3 point shooting for sure, but he has shown that he has a decent shot, that can be developed. I think Doncic's 3 point shot looks pretty good so far and can be honed.

The myth that two ball dominant players can't coexist and thrive is not true. GSW have Curry and Durant, Houston has Paul and Harden, and Cleveland had LeBron and Kyrie. Those are the 3 most ball dominant duos in the league and they all thrived and dominated the league together.

The key is to spread and move the ball and with the two very good ball handlers at PG and SF, you open up the other spots to players that have a niche role, like Buddy as a 3 point bomber, WCS as a mobile, running big, and hopefully Giles as your prolific big man scorer and rebounder. Bogdan can be the primary ball handler and weapon off the bench.

I think that if the Kings are lucky enough to be in position to take Doncic, you take him and run.

The Kings would have a very young and exciting team with this lineup:

PF: Giles / Skal / ZBO
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Shumpert
C: WCS / KK / ZBo
SG: Heild/ Bogdan / Temple
PG: Fox / Mason

The 2 ball handler myth was outdated 10 years ago

 

[ESP47]

First off, Fox is not going anywhere, regardless of who we draft this year.

Secondly, I really don't see an issue with a Fox and Doncic pairing at PG and SF. Fox would need to improve his 3 point shooting for sure, but he has shown that he has a decent shot, that can be developed. I think Doncic's 3 point shot looks pretty good so far and can be honed.

The myth that two ball dominant players can't coexist and thrive is not true. GSW have Curry and Durant, Houston has Paul and Harden, and Cleveland had LeBron and Kyrie. Those are the 3 most ball dominant duos in the league and they all thrived and dominated the league together.

The key is to spread and move the ball and with the two very good ball handlers at PG and SF, you open up the other spots to players that have a niche role, like Buddy as a 3 point bomber, WCS as a mobile, running big, and hopefully Giles as your prolific big man scorer and rebounder. Bogdan can be the primary ball handler and weapon off the bench.

I think that if the Kings are lucky enough to be in position to take Doncic, you take him and run.

The Kings would have a very young and exciting team with this lineup:

PF: Giles / Skal / ZBO
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Shumpert
C: WCS / KK / ZBo
SG: Heild/ Bogdan / Temple
PG: Fox / Mason

The 2 ball handler myth was outdated 10 years ago

You're forming an argument against me based on something that I never even said. Where is this talk about ball handling and ball dominance? I said that Fox and Doncic more than likely won't be able to coexist and you're assuming that I'm talking about it's because they both handle the ball even though I specifically mentioned shooting in the post above and made no mention of ball handling.

You're comparing apples to oranges here. For one, you're giving me a list that has what, 6 of the 10 best players on the planet? Not to mention that they're all great 3 point shooters sans Lebron, who is only one of the best players of all time. Those guys playing along side each other has nothing to do with the Kings situation.

All of those guys, sans Lebron, are great 3 point shooters. Fox is not. Will Fox ever become one? I don't know. Odds are that he won't wind up shooting a handful of them a game at a 40% clip like a lot of those guys mentioned. It's one of the biggest knocks on his game. It's real easy to say that all Fox has to do is learn to play off the ball and become a good shooter to be able to form a formidable duo with Doncic but you're asking him to turn all the weakest parts of his game into his biggest strengths. That's wishful thinking if you ask me. Not an impossibility but certainly not something I'd be putting money on happening.