Luka Doncic
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Time will tell. If we can retain Fox and Buddy and somehow add Doncic it would be a huge coup.
I dont think tanking was every a concrete part of our strategy or else we would have done it regardless. There are great alternatives at the top of the draft even without Doncic and my hope was that we would land there but alas not to be.
I dont think tanking was every a concrete part of our strategy or else we would have done it regardless. There are great alternatives at the top of the draft even without Doncic and my hope was that we would land there but alas not to be.
So, using your analogy, the FO doesn't like Doncic, Ayton, JJJ, and likely Bagley, because any of them are likely to be in the top three, and if they liked any of them, they would have tanked for them. So they don't like any of the best players in this draft. They didn't tank because they wanted to be assured of getting a lesser player... Yeah, I think I understand that....
Sooooo, what happens when you tank, and then a team jumps over you. Perhaps three teams jump over you, which is what happened when the Kings had the worse record in the NBA. There is no guarantee that the Kings could have gotten Doncic if they had tanked their way to the worse record. And, their's still a chance they might be the team that leapfrogs to the top position.
Yeah, if they truly loved Doncic as a prospect and wanted him on this team, then they would've tanked to get him. Or at least hand the keys to our young guys sooner instead of trying to feature a heavy ZBO offense and aim for wins. I honestly don't care what stats say, because I'm pretty sure we would've lost more games without ZBo. Until Buddy's late emergence, ZBo was the only player on offense who could consistently create his own offense. He was our best offensive option.
Going back to the Kings, we obviously didn't value Doncic as high as the other lotto teams. If we did, then we would've been tanking for him side by side with them. Look at how those teams(Suns, Dallas, Hawks, and Grizzlies) were out there blatanlty losing games for a chance at Doncic/Ayton.The Kings made choices this year. So in theory, they probably had a plan from the very start and knew that they were going to pick in the 5-10 range. That tells me they view very little talent difference between the top 5 and the next 5. If this wasn't their plan to begin with, then it's even worse they didn't have this part of the plan mapped out.
See, this is why I have trouble getting behind this FO. This is the same exact problem we faced before trading Cousins. They changed their plans almost every year. There's 0 continuity from the last season to the next. This year they were firm on what they wanted to do...rebuild and develop. They already said at the beginning that it would be a long process. If it's a multi-year process, then they should have multiple years mapped out. That's what a good FO would do during a rebuild. Are they still following their own plans? Or are they just riding along the waves? I'm inclined to pick the later. What was the 1/2 year George Hill experiment about? What was waiving Papagiannis about after accepting his offer for next year? Or how about completely giving up on Malachi?
I don't know how things work in the NBA, but I'd assume if you're committed towards a 2-3 year rebuild, then you should have a plan all mapped out. I just don't see it with this FO.To make matters worse, they know we won't be without a 2019 pick, so it makes this 2018 pick tens times as important... yet here we are, standing at #7 in the lotto...nowhere near reach of Luka Doncic.
Going back to the Kings, we obviously didn't value Doncic as high as the other lotto teams. If we did, then we would've been tanking for him side by side with them. Look at how those teams(Suns, Dallas, Hawks, and Grizzlies) were out there blatanlty losing games for a chance at Doncic/Ayton.The Kings made choices this year. So in theory, they probably had a plan from the very start and knew that they were going to pick in the 5-10 range. That tells me they view very little talent difference between the top 5 and the next 5. If this wasn't their plan to begin with, then it's even worse they didn't have this part of the plan mapped out.
See, this is why I have trouble getting behind this FO. This is the same exact problem we faced before trading Cousins. They changed their plans almost every year. There's 0 continuity from the last season to the next. This year they were firm on what they wanted to do...rebuild and develop. They already said at the beginning that it would be a long process. If it's a multi-year process, then they should have multiple years mapped out. That's what a good FO would do during a rebuild. Are they still following their own plans? Or are they just riding along the waves? I'm inclined to pick the later. What was the 1/2 year George Hill experiment about? What was waiving Papagiannis about after accepting his offer for next year? Or how about completely giving up on Malachi?
I don't know how things work in the NBA, but I'd assume if you're committed towards a 2-3 year rebuild, then you should have a plan all mapped out. I just don't see it with this FO.To make matters worse, they know we won't be without a 2019 pick, so it makes this 2018 pick tens times as important... yet here we are, standing at #7 in the lotto...nowhere near reach of Luka Doncic.
I have pretty much settled on if we can get Doncic do it. Likely we will have to trade a player or two plus a pick swap to get him. I like Fox, Buddy, and Bogdan a lot, still Donic as part of a trio has greater potential.
Willi as part of the trade would be fine too knowing now Kosta is opting in. Then throw good money at one of the frequently mentioned FA bigs.
Willi as part of the trade would be fine too knowing now Kosta is opting in. Then throw good money at one of the frequently mentioned FA bigs.
A the beginning of this season, I largely questioned his size and defensive position. Mostly because there's different sites with different heights. Real Madrid had him listed at 6'4.9" w/o shoes 218lbs, while Euroleague has at 6'5 w/o shoes. He'd only be at 6'7 218lbs..which isn't big enough to guard SFs. He's also not quick enough to guard SGs. So he'd be a massive liability on that end.
However, the draft guys have been listing him at 6'8 228lbs. I also think he's gotten bigger since the beginning of the year. It means he's big enough to guard SFs and play that position, so this concern has been thrown entirely out of the window for me.
I have him as my #1 over Ayton now.
However, the draft guys have been listing him at 6'8 228lbs. I also think he's gotten bigger since the beginning of the year. It means he's big enough to guard SFs and play that position, so this concern has been thrown entirely out of the window for me.
I have him as my #1 over Ayton now.
It just depends on what type of role you put Doncic in. Just an example, I never thought Ben Simmons would average around 8apg,. I didn't think he was that type of a passer, yet here he is with 8apg in his rookie year. Brett Brown put him in a certain role that highlighted his passing. With Doncic, I just think you have to put him in the right role.
Jokic is another player who I didn't think could carry his own team. I didn't think he could be a #1 scoring option, he was always passive and we saw this against the Kings. He's also pretty slow and unathletic, I didn't think his unorthodox self could score 20+ppg in this league. This year he's posting up 18.5pts 10.7rebs 6.1asts on 49.9/39.6/85.0. He's trending to 20ppg and more.
Jokic is another player who I didn't think could carry his own team. I didn't think he could be a #1 scoring option, he was always passive and we saw this against the Kings. He's also pretty slow and unathletic, I didn't think his unorthodox self could score 20+ppg in this league. This year he's posting up 18.5pts 10.7rebs 6.1asts on 49.9/39.6/85.0. He's trending to 20ppg and more.
a seven foot Andrew Wiggins...hmm, funny you bring that up considering Wiggins was hyped as the next big star wing coming out of Kansas and then he disappointed and has yet to reach his potential because he goes through the motions. You mean to tell me you can evaluate a player in one year at college and say he is all ready a labeled player? It's too early, far too many times you and I both see players are in different settings, systems, environments and they either blossom or they flop. With Ayton, it's an unknown as much as it is with Doncic but if I were a GM, I'd draft Ayton number one and not regret it.
From what I recall, Fran Fraschilla doesn't think Doncic should be your primary PG.
Here's what Mike Schmitz said about Doncic in his latest ESPN article
I think Doncic should be your primary ball handler. However, I think you should have a PG next to him. Just a speedster who can drive and dish, but also play off-ball. DX alluded to this, I'd definitely put him in a James Harden role.
Here's what Mike Schmitz said about Doncic in his latest ESPN article
I think Doncic should be your primary ball handler. However, I think you should have a PG next to him. Just a speedster who can drive and dish, but also play off-ball. DX alluded to this, I'd definitely put him in a James Harden role.
Exactly. For everyone that wonders how to use him, re-watch his national team tape from this summer. He was paired with Goran Dragic and it worked beautifully. You put him in a flowing movement offense, move the ball side to side and let him make reads and pick apart defenses off secondary pick and roll action.
I don't think Fox and Doncic would be able to coexist. Doncic would be better next to a Darren Collison or prime George Hill type PG. If we somehow win the lottery and draft Doncic, I'd ship Fox out while he still has value. I'd also probably trade Fox if it guaranteed us getting Doncic but I'd be kicking the FO in the you know what because they could have had Doncic no matter what if they would have tanked properly. At that point, Fox could be traded for a position of need and we could have the best of both worlds. But that's not how the Kings operate.
I thought about it more and more, and here's what DX said about Doncic's potential fit with the Kings:
I used to be adamant against the Fox-Doncic pairing, but after some time, I think it would be ok. Fox would just need to learn how to play off-ball and really improve his spot-up shooting. Can the two co-exist and play basketball at a maximum level? I don't know. I think Fox is best with the ball his hands, and Doncic is best with the ball in his hands. But there's only 1 ball. You'd really need Fox to develop his 3pt shot for any chance of it to workout between the two.
Doncic being the playmaker and facilitator would allow Fox to be a scoring guard. He looks much more comfortable in that role vs. being a distributor anyways.
I used to be adamant against the Fox-Doncic pairing, but after some time, I think it would be ok. Fox would just need to learn how to play off-ball and really improve his spot-up shooting. Can the two co-exist and play basketball at a maximum level? I don't know. I think Fox is best with the ball his hands, and Doncic is best with the ball in his hands. But there's only 1 ball. You'd really need Fox to develop his 3pt shot for any chance of it to workout between the two.
Doncic being the playmaker and facilitator would allow Fox to be a scoring guard. He looks much more comfortable in that role vs. being a distributor anyways.
I just don't see it. Doncic and Fox being a good pairing means that most of Fox's biggest weaknesses are going to have to be turned into strengths. Doncic's 3 point shooting hasn't really been rock solid up until this point either so you could potentially have a big clash of weaknesses out there. I'm not saying it would be impossible for them to coexist but I wouldn't place my future playoff run on them being able to play together. If a team wanted to give me a player for Fox that fit in perfectly with Doncic and co., I'd do it. If his trade value isn't enough to land me a player I want, then I'd roll the dice and see what happens between them.
First off, Fox is not going anywhere, regardless of who we draft this year.
Secondly, I really don't see an issue with a Fox and Doncic pairing at PG and SF. Fox would need to improve his 3 point shooting for sure, but he has shown that he has a decent shot, that can be developed. I think Doncic's 3 point shot looks pretty good so far and can be honed.
The myth that two ball dominant players can't coexist and thrive is not true. GSW have Curry and Durant, Houston has Paul and Harden, and Cleveland had LeBron and Kyrie. Those are the 3 most ball dominant duos in the league and they all thrived and dominated the league together.
The key is to spread and move the ball and with the two very good ball handlers at PG and SF, you open up the other spots to players that have a niche role, like Buddy as a 3 point bomber, WCS as a mobile, running big, and hopefully Giles as your prolific big man scorer and rebounder. Bogdan can be the primary ball handler and weapon off the bench.
I think that if the Kings are lucky enough to be in position to take Doncic, you take him and run.
The Kings would have a very young and exciting team with this lineup:
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBO
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Shumpert
C: WCS / KK / ZBo
SG: Heild/ Bogdan / Temple
PG: Fox / Mason
Secondly, I really don't see an issue with a Fox and Doncic pairing at PG and SF. Fox would need to improve his 3 point shooting for sure, but he has shown that he has a decent shot, that can be developed. I think Doncic's 3 point shot looks pretty good so far and can be honed.
The myth that two ball dominant players can't coexist and thrive is not true. GSW have Curry and Durant, Houston has Paul and Harden, and Cleveland had LeBron and Kyrie. Those are the 3 most ball dominant duos in the league and they all thrived and dominated the league together.
The key is to spread and move the ball and with the two very good ball handlers at PG and SF, you open up the other spots to players that have a niche role, like Buddy as a 3 point bomber, WCS as a mobile, running big, and hopefully Giles as your prolific big man scorer and rebounder. Bogdan can be the primary ball handler and weapon off the bench.
I think that if the Kings are lucky enough to be in position to take Doncic, you take him and run.
The Kings would have a very young and exciting team with this lineup:
PF: Giles / Skal / ZBO
SF: Doncic / Jackson / Shumpert
C: WCS / KK / ZBo
SG: Heild/ Bogdan / Temple
PG: Fox / Mason
You're forming an argument against me based on something that I never even said. Where is this talk about ball handling and ball dominance? I said that Fox and Doncic more than likely won't be able to coexist and you're assuming that I'm talking about it's because they both handle the ball even though I specifically mentioned shooting in the post above and made no mention of ball handling.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. For one, you're giving me a list that has what, 6 of the 10 best players on the planet? Not to mention that they're all great 3 point shooters sans Lebron, who is only one of the best players of all time. Those guys playing along side each other has nothing to do with the Kings situation.
All of those guys, sans Lebron, are great 3 point shooters. Fox is not. Will Fox ever become one? I don't know. Odds are that he won't wind up shooting a handful of them a game at a 40% clip like a lot of those guys mentioned. It's one of the biggest knocks on his game. It's real easy to say that all Fox has to do is learn to play off the ball and become a good shooter to be able to form a formidable duo with Doncic but you're asking him to turn all the weakest parts of his game into his biggest strengths. That's wishful thinking if you ask me. Not an impossibility but certainly not something I'd be putting money on happening.
You're comparing apples to oranges here. For one, you're giving me a list that has what, 6 of the 10 best players on the planet? Not to mention that they're all great 3 point shooters sans Lebron, who is only one of the best players of all time. Those guys playing along side each other has nothing to do with the Kings situation.
All of those guys, sans Lebron, are great 3 point shooters. Fox is not. Will Fox ever become one? I don't know. Odds are that he won't wind up shooting a handful of them a game at a 40% clip like a lot of those guys mentioned. It's one of the biggest knocks on his game. It's real easy to say that all Fox has to do is learn to play off the ball and become a good shooter to be able to form a formidable duo with Doncic but you're asking him to turn all the weakest parts of his game into his biggest strengths. That's wishful thinking if you ask me. Not an impossibility but certainly not something I'd be putting money on happening.
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