Kings vs Hawks - Summer League Game 5

[The_Jamal]

ben mclemore is a shooter. he's a shooter, people. some nights, the shots will fall. other nights, the shots will not fall. there is no surprise here. given his inability to consistently handle or create for himself, the question remains the same: on those off shooting nights, what will mclemore be able to contribute?

rebounding. Elite athleticism. Transition game. Energy/hustle. Potential to be a great defensive talent.

other than that, pretty much nothing

 

[HereWeBoogie]

i think so too...hes in for a big year with the loss of tyreke and adding greivis...

me too. IF he is the starting 2 for the whole season, i wouldn't be surprised to see him averaging 22ppg. he can score the ball

 

[HereWeBoogie]

ben mclemore is a shooter. he's a shooter, people. some nights, the shots will fall. other nights, the shots will not fall. there is no surprise here. given his inability to consistently handle or create for himself, the question remains the same: on those off shooting nights, what will mclemore be able to contribute?

Well, he had 9 rebounds tonight, so he can add a bit of rebounding when his shot doesnt fall. he has elite athleticism that can make him a weapon in transition and defensively. he has also made some decent passes that should have been dunks if he wasnt playing with a team of the local YMCA rejects. and lets not forget he is like 19 yrs old. he has plenty of time to improve his off the dribble game!

and he made a few mid range jumpers off the dribble tonight. the kind that are unguardable.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Regarding BMac's handles people need to take into consideration if indeed he played PF until his senior year of high school, and sat out a year at Kansas for academic reasons he has only been handling the rock for literally a couple of years.

I'm with you guys on Thornton, people sleep on him and he could definitely be an above average starting off guard in this league. People also sleep on JT and treat him like a throw in instead of a solid, tough, young role-playing big man whos a net positive on/off the floor

 

[Boogie-havoc]

And again I will say guys, that there is simply no excuse to how the coaches didn't help Ben out and drew him easy plays throughout this SL.

Like the play they drew for Ray at the beginning of the game for the ally-oop – why the hell didn’t they do that even once so far in SL for Ben?

I mean Ben is SO athletic, and he’s SO depended on his confidence, that it’s just a no brainer to draw him a backdoor play for an easy slam, just throw it up there and he’ll go get it – he NEEDS it. He should have had atleast 1 ally-oop like Ray had today, EVERY SINGLE GAME. Likely more then once.

The coaching staff really did a horrible job helping Ben out as far as this goes. They should go and watch Kansas games from last year and see how many plays they had for Ben similar to what I’m saying almost every game.

 

[jcwkings]

I think the problem with people on here is that they are comparing Ben to our former SG Tyreke Evans, who skillwise is anything but a SG. Ben is a "Ray Allen" type SG, a guy you run off screens, run plays where they are cutting to the rim. Do you ever see teams run an iso for Ray Allen? I think this board is just so used to seeing so many Isolation plays over past 4 years, that they forgot about things like screens, backdoor cuts, dribble hand offs. You know the kind of things our legends C Webb, Vlade, Peja, Bibby, Christie, B Jax ran.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

they ran a lot of plays for Ben. did you not see how he was running off screens the entire time. also take into account that he was the #1 focus of the Defense so they were trying to take everything away from him

 

[Boogie-havoc]

they ran a lot of plays for Ben. did you not see how he was running off screens the entire time. also take into account that he was the #1 focus of the Defense so they were trying to take everything away from him

They ran him to the 3pt line.

Not once did they really have a play for him where the primary goal is to lob it up for him for the slam. Not once.(And there were a lot of times where he himself got open and raised his hand to receive the lob, but never got it cause that wasn't the play and the PG wasn't alert enough)

In out of bounds play under the basket too, where Kansas used him throughout the season as a lob catcher after a few picks - not once did they attempt that to try help the kid out.

Zero creativity.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

yea i can agree with all that. lets hope the lackluster teammates had a lot to do with this

 

[The_Jamal]

yea i can agree with all that. lets hope the lackluster teammates had a lot to do with this

It did. Watching us run the PnR was comical. The bigs had no idea how to set a screen and if they managed to get a good one planted, they had no idea what to do afterwards. So often, Mccalum and McLemore were double-teamed for free on the perimeter

 

[spudfan]

They ran him to the 3pt line.

Not once did they really have a play for him where the primary goal is to lob it up for him for the slam. Not once.(And there were a lot of times where he himself got open and raised his hand to receive the lob, but never got it cause that wasn't the play and the PG wasn't alert enough)

In out of bounds play under the basket too, where Kansas used him throughout the season as a lob catcher after a few picks - not once did they attempt that to try help the kid out.

Zero creativity.

With our guys unable to set a decent screen I think a lot of the plays we hoped to see Ben in we're not physically possible with the personnel we had. Here's to hoping we see it during the regular season.

 

[spudfan]

It did. Watching us run the PnR was comical. The bigs had no idea how to set a screen and if they managed to get a good one planted, they had no idea what to do afterwards. So often, Mccalum and McLemore were double-teamed for free on the perimeter

Jamal I think we rarely agree but I too was laughing at the pick and rolls, screens and our players trying to set up to get an entry pass. It was the mouth wide open, are you serious, what are you doing! kind of laugh every time I saw it.

 

[yeehee]

 

[mac]

I think the problem with people on here is that they are comparing Ben to our former SG Tyreke Evans, who skillwise is anything but a SG. Ben is a "Ray Allen" type SG, a guy you run off screens, run plays where they are cutting to the rim. Do you ever see teams run an iso for Ray Allen? I think this board is just so used to seeing so many Isolation plays over past 4 years, that they forgot about things like screens, backdoor cuts, dribble hand offs. You know the kind of things our legends C Webb, Vlade, Peja, Bibby, Christie, B Jax ran.

Ah yes, our legends that won so many championships compared to the iso play of LBJ, Kobe, Wade, Jordan, Pierce...

 

[Tetsujin]

I see what you're saying but I really believe that Thornton could be a #2 "scorer". Whether his defense improves it will be up to the coaching to harp on him about it.

But back to being a #2 option, I don't see why he couldn't be one for a couple years and by then hopefully we have a SF that can take over games.

Not many teams have two 20ppg players in the starting lineup (based on Thornton's first half year with us along with his potential to be that player again if he's back to starting) along with a 8-9apg guy and a couple 9-11rpg guys.

Well if my strategy of trading Jimmer and a box of crackerjacks for Wiggins comes to fruition, we'll be set then.

 

[kingwin]

just one quick question how many open shots did bmac miss?....now clearly he would benefit from having better teammates and coaches drawing better plays...but some ppl are to acting like the only reason he didnt play well every game was because of his coaches and teammates not doing their job...

 

[Kingster]

I don't think anyone on the forum thinks he is another Kobe or anything like that...potential-wise. Still, as the draft "experts" said, he may have the highest ceiling of anyone in the draft. Long, long ways to go to get there with the already mentioned improvements needed to happen. He does have the tools as far as athleticism and size for a 2 guard. Now it's up to him and the organization to get him there.

Bottom line there are going to be many nights of frustration with him and then games where he does this....has a good game.

I agree with this. And I have a lot more confidence in this organization to direct/assist McClemore in improving on his game than the old Maloof org.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

just one quick question how many open shots did bmac miss?....now clearly he would benefit from having better teammates and coaches drawing better plays...but some ppl are to acting like the only reason he didnt play well every game was because of his coaches and teammates not doing their job...

i think most people aren't really worried about that. he IS a good shooter. the shots will start to fall. look what happened in the second half last night when he got a little more comfortable and confident

 

[VF21]

I think the problem with people on here is that they are comparing Ben to our former SG Tyreke Evans, who skillwise is anything but a SG. Ben is a "Ray Allen" type SG, a guy you run off screens, run plays where they are cutting to the rim. Do you ever see teams run an iso for Ray Allen? I think this board is just so used to seeing so many Isolation plays over past 4 years, that they forgot about things like screens, backdoor cuts, dribble hand offs. You know the kind of things our legends C Webb, Vlade, Peja, Bibby, Christie, B Jax ran.

Great point. The TEAM play of our "legends" was incredible to watch, whether they won any championships or not. You don't see basketball like that often enough to truly appreciate it.

 

[Spike]

just one quick question how many open shots did bmac miss?....now clearly he would benefit from having better teammates and coaches drawing better plays...but some ppl are to acting like the only reason he didnt play well every game was because of his coaches and teammates not doing their job...

Overall, quite a few. Last night, I think he was 2-9 until he got hot in the third, then a little mixed in the fourth. Off my memory, I think he missed two and made one. He was streaky, that's for sure.

 

[Dime Dropper]

On a side note, I really like the Hawks' two rookies. Schroeder may be one of the best players from the draft and Nogueira is so mobile for his size and blocks everything.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

It might take longer than that... Peja was on the bench for two years before he finally erupted into something special.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he will be anything close to a finished project by mid-season - I'm just saying that it will be mid-season, at the earliest, before we have any sort of clue as to what kind of player he is and can ultimately be. We certainly don't know anything just from Summer league. I don't recall Peja playing in Summer league, but if he did, I'm betting he wasn't too spectacular and he turned out to be a pretty damn good player.

Unlike Peja, McLemore will be counted upon to contribute much earlier in his career. Peja had the luxury of coming into a good situation and a good team with a lot of depth. McLemore won't have that luxury. But that still doesn't change the fact that McLemore likely won't develop much faster, if at all, than Stojakovic did. By the time Peja came over to the Kings, he'd been playing professionally for a couple seasons whereas McLemore has only one full season of college ball under his belt. Peja was certainly more seasoned and experienced coming in.

 

[pshn80]

Regarding BMac's handles people need to take into consideration if indeed he played PF until his senior year of high school, and sat out a year at Kansas for academic reasons he has only been handling the rock for literally a couple of years.

I'm with you guys on Thornton, people sleep on him and he could definitely be an above average starting off guard in this league. People also sleep on JT and treat him like a throw in instead of a solid, tough, young role-playing big man whos a net positive on/off the floor

I'll bet on Thompson but not on Thornton. Let someone try to beat out Thompson. Thornton - I don't want to take the chance and I don't want to watch whether the results would be up or down. But the new folks will do it their way and I will live with that. If I'm doing the picking, give McLemore/ Salmons as the tandem.

 

[bajaden]

Just my thoughts on the Thornton/McLemore situation. At this point, I'd start Thornton and bring McLemore off the bench. John Salmons was outright terrible last season, and I have no reason to believe he'll suddenly become the player he was 3 or 4 years ago. If he remains on the team, I certainly hope he does. But I had to grade him more than any player on the team last season, and I really got tired of 2 pts, 2 rebounds, and 1 assist in 35 minutes of playing time. If you have a starter giving you that just about every night, your going to lose a lot of games. If Salmons was a lock down defender, then maybe I could stomach those stats, but he's not. He just above average in the defense dept.

I will say this about McLemore. I think he'll actually have an easier time getting open with the main squad. In summer league he was the focus of the other teams defense. That won't be the case when we throw up the ball for real. He moves extremely well without the ball, so if used properly, his below average ballhandling shouldn't be that big a problem for him. I don't remember anyone praising the ballhandling abilities of Reggie Miller or Kevin Martin. Ballhandling is what will keep him from moving to the next level though. So he really needs to improve dramaticly. In the meantime, Thornton will be a nice placeholder for him in the starting lineup.

 

[Kingsfan23]

On a side note, I really like the Hawks' two rookies. Schroeder may be one of the best players from the draft and Nogueira is so mobile for his size and blocks everything.

Love Schroder. Before the draft he was one of the candidates I wanted at #7 depending on who was on the board, and I thought he had the chance to be the best pg in the draft. Luckily with our 2nd round pick we got another young pg who I was/am high on who battled with the 19 year old Schroder in this game

 

[The_Jamal]

Love Schroder. Before the draft he was one of the candidates I wanted at #7 depending on who was on the board, and I thought he had the chance to be the best pg in the draft. Luckily with our 2nd round pick we got another young pg who I was/am high on who battled with the 19 year old Schroder in this game

I thought McCallum outplayed Schroder in this game. And for all the raving of the SL announcers about Shroders pressure D, McCallum handled it rather easily.

 

[LPKingsFan]

Thanks for sharing. That out-of-bounds play at around 2:25-2:30 was the most comforting, for me. They clearly were guarding his right, and he was able to shake and get free to the left and nail the jumper. Now, you can complain that it was a long 2, the least efficient shot in the game, but I liked the ability to get himself free there.

 

[Bricklayer]

Thanks for sharing. That out-of-bounds play at around 2:25-2:30 was the most comforting, for me. They clearly were guarding his right, and he was able to shake and get free to the left and nail the jumper. Now, you can complain that it was a long 2, the least efficient shot in the game, but I liked the ability to get himself free there.

Given the way he shot the NBA three during summer league, long 2s might be his comfort range for a while. The whole you should just step back and chuck a three thing only applies if both shots are roughly equally in your range.

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

I thought McCallum outplayed Schroder in this game. And for all the raving of the SL announcers about Shroders pressure D, McCallum handled it rather easily.

I agree here. Watching the game the announcers gushed over Shroder over and over again, which is fine. He's an exciting player, but they way they talked suggested that he had owned McCallum. I though he handled it very well, and showed just how good his handle was. He had 11 AST and only 2 turnovers. Schroder had 5AST, 3 turnovers and 6 fouls.

 

[Glenn]

It is exciting to see any basketball player average almost two points a minute in a quarter. Too bad there is no video record of Wilt averaging more than two points a minute in a full game. McLemore will hit for 50 several times in his career and that is always fun especially when it isn't done at our expense and is in the flow of the offense. McLemore, because of his limitations, can score ONLY in the flow of the offense. His 50 point games will be accompanied by a a 25 assist by a PG. He very well could help someone beat Scott Skiles' record for most assists in a game which I think is about 35.