[Game] Kings v. Celtics - Wednesday, March 6 - 7PT/10ET
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- Start date
The Effort Police
Starter
Irrelevant.
1. Bogi fouled out and that's why it wasn't small to end the game.
2. Joerger wants to go small in general; this is his starting lineup. Bagley may or may not be closing games; but some would say 6+ minutes at the start of each half getting killed on the glass and by the opposing team's SF plus digging yourself a hole is no big deal. I say otherwise.
NewArena
All-Star
This recent stretch makes it beyond obvious that Bagley and Barnes need to start out there together. Period.
Can’t imagine trying to win any other way. Imitating Don Nelson (who never won a day in his life) isn’t my idea of fun.
parker
Bench
To your second point, that's not what happened in this game. If you want to look at what lost them the game, look at bench scoring. Without Bagley, the bench is a hodge podge bunch of misfits. Plus, the Kings were not outrebounded in this game.
The Effort Police
Starter
I don't think you can start WCS and Bagley together. It's the main reason I support just letting WCS walk.
Anyway, I wouldn't hate small-ball if it was another versatile forward in the Barnes body mold to plug into Bogi's spot. A guy like Harris, Tatum, Aminu, the Morris twins, etc. The problem with Bogi is that he's not big enough, he's not physical enough, he's not versatile enough defensively, etc.
steelevt
All-Star
Maybe if we didn't keep playing small ball we aren't down 6 in the first place. That lineup, or the lineup with giles instead of wcs, helped us go on the big run in the first quarter and another run in the second after the small ball lineup kept losing the lead. Im not totally against giles playing pf if our only other option is defending every guy with someone 3-5 inches shorter.
parker
Bench
My memory might be faulty, but it was the Bogi, Brewer, Giles, Yogi, Burkes/Heild lineup that killed them in the 2nd. Small ball, but a bad small ball lineup.
hoops4kings
Bench
It's just exhausting losing these close games. Like Groundhog Day of basketball.
This should've been a W.
1. Kyrie Irving was not playing
2. Celtics are coming off a game vs. GSW
We're not a playoff team this year. Does anyone seriously think we can close out the season on a winning streak when we can't even beat the Celtics at home without Kyrie? The playoffs are literally in our hands if we want it, but it doesn't seem like all the players do. The intensity is also lacking. I won't be sad to see this roster get shaken up in the offseason.
1. Kyrie Irving was not playing
2. Celtics are coming off a game vs. GSW
We're not a playoff team this year. Does anyone seriously think we can close out the season on a winning streak when we can't even beat the Celtics at home without Kyrie? The playoffs are literally in our hands if we want it, but it doesn't seem like all the players do. The intensity is also lacking. I won't be sad to see this roster get shaken up in the offseason.
parker
Bench
Actually, I don't think it is lack of intensity. it is likely they are playing tighter in close games than they were earlier in the year now that more is at stake.
True, they are not a playoff team this year, but they are playing like one even in this rough stretch. 2 point losses to Nuggets, Warriors, Bucks, Celtics.
The Celtics went to the Eastern finals last year without Kyrie. They are a legitimate contender. Keep in mind, the Kings are also down a main cog. No shame in losing to the Celtics, but it doesn't lessen the disappointment.
True, they are not a playoff team this year, but they are playing like one even in this rough stretch. 2 point losses to Nuggets, Warriors, Bucks, Celtics.
The Celtics went to the Eastern finals last year without Kyrie. They are a legitimate contender. Keep in mind, the Kings are also down a main cog. No shame in losing to the Celtics, but it doesn't lessen the disappointment.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
They’re a young team melting under the pressure. The playoffs were never in our hands, even when we had a spot in the standings. The Spurs have the grizzled vets and Pop, they weren’t going away and we were fooling ourselves otherwise.
The Clippers on the other hand decided to be great after trading their best player, which isn’t what I expected.
Another year later, a healthy better older stronger Bagley, a better older stronger starting (?) Giles, another step up from Fox... a nice hit somewhere in FA.
For the first time in ever “Next year” actually feels like the year we’ve been waiting for for a long long time.
John Galt
Starter
Not even gonna read the whole thread - many fans be trippin.
It is a matter of opinion for sure, but when a team is projected to win under 25 games and is on pace to actually win 41... there is a strong likelihood that the coach has them playing close to their talent capacity.
Drives me crazy to see people require a scapegoat this season. Just crazy.
It hurt so bad to lose this - watch the Celtics score so many threes. But we have played close to as well as we can play right now - I don't think a different coach gets a better result. Maybe... but I don't think so.
What a season so far. Now we need to surprise some folks on the road trip.
It is a matter of opinion for sure, but when a team is projected to win under 25 games and is on pace to actually win 41... there is a strong likelihood that the coach has them playing close to their talent capacity.
Drives me crazy to see people require a scapegoat this season. Just crazy.
It hurt so bad to lose this - watch the Celtics score so many threes. But we have played close to as well as we can play right now - I don't think a different coach gets a better result. Maybe... but I don't think so.
What a season so far. Now we need to surprise some folks on the road trip.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
I’d personally go small indeterminately. I hope Bagley can gain in physique by next year to play C, but that’s a grand hope. Start your best players, and play them the bulk. League is going small. Bagley is improving at a rapid clip having the second unit centered around him.
sactowndog
All-Star
Just got back from the game. Every time we had Bogi at the three Brad Stevens went Bogi hunting and ran ball screens to get Bogi guarding Tatum. It’s an effective way to get the match-up you want. Bogi was out-matched in that instance. He isn’t long enough or strong enough to guard Tatum at the 3.
sactowndog
All-Star
League is going smaller at center but long at the 3. Durant, Tatum can all play 3 at 6’10”+. We need Bagley/Giles to develop an outside game so we can go long also.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Really? Then what was last year? Credit where credit is due but when a team completely switches their play style to what fits the talent and they don't look like utter garbage I think the answer might partially be in that realm of existence. In the end I do think it certainly shows that Vlade did a great job drafting.
It feels like too often we're coasting in the middle of the game only to be down in the 4th quarter trying to play catch up. Too many times. I don't know if it's a bench problem, but this team hasn't been able to hold their energy during an entire game. A sense of urgency only comes when our lead slips away or we go down big.
Is it realistic to expect a jump from all of our guys? Buddy's jump from year 1 to 2 was disappointing...which made his jump from year 2 to 3 surprising. Fox's jump was expected, but those who expected franchise player are a bit disappointed. Bogdan's lack of a jump is disappointing. WCS has had a solid jump. Giles' "jump" is a bit of a mixed bag.
For a playoff push, I don't think the answer would be to rely on Fox, Bagley, or Giles improving their games. Instead, I think it should come from upgrading the roster through FA and trades.
gunks
Hall of Famer
That's kinda like complaining about not winning 100 million when you're taking home a 80 million dollar lotto ticket! If Fox is top 10, I'm happy!
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I get the distinct feeling that he/she has a very specific person he/she is trying to compare Fox to.
I thought the Kings stayed right with Boston. The Celtics are a tough team to match up with. Joerger went with the small line-up. Any doubrts about Barnes should be retired forever. The Kings are playing all the great teams right until the end. They deserve credit for their efforts, not a bunch of second guessing by amateur wannabe NBA coaches.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
In the case of those three, I absolutely think it is. Fox may not take the year 1–>2 leap again, but there’s no reason to think he is going to start to stagnate at 21/22 , and Bagley and Giles have so much talent that time will only take them to another level.
Young talented teams get better. The Warriors were not the Warriors overnight.
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kb02
All-Star
The Kings could've won the game. And the players played a bit too fast at times--Bjelly's dive and toss to the Celts, Willie throwing the ball away (again), Fox mishandling the ball, and Yogi rushing the play and losing a breakaway. One of those plays go in our direction and everyone is happy.
Plus like 8 missed FTs (I haven't checked and don't care to). I hate hindsight quarterback analysis.
I don't get the Joeger hate. He played his best players. Our best players happen to be undersized at the 3 spot. We need more size there and in a perfect world, JJ would've stayed here and we would've given up Zbo and one or two second rounders for Barnes.
That said, it's not over, but is indeed looking bleak. The Kings have three second rounders--if the Kings keep all three, I expect one of the picks to be a Euro stash and the other two to be lotto tickets on SFs. Here's looking at you Kris Wilkes.
Plus like 8 missed FTs (I haven't checked and don't care to). I hate hindsight quarterback analysis.
I don't get the Joeger hate. He played his best players. Our best players happen to be undersized at the 3 spot. We need more size there and in a perfect world, JJ would've stayed here and we would've given up Zbo and one or two second rounders for Barnes.
That said, it's not over, but is indeed looking bleak. The Kings have three second rounders--if the Kings keep all three, I expect one of the picks to be a Euro stash and the other two to be lotto tickets on SFs. Here's looking at you Kris Wilkes.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The game just highlights the lack of depth on this team. Bagley goes out and there is a cascading domino effect in which there just isn't the talent to withstand a team like Boston.
I have no affinity for the following players: WCS, Bjelica, Bogs. WCS is a non-competitor, hence his inconsistency. Bjelica and Bogs, though competitive, are both too unathletic at their size to be more than minor pluses. Bjelica is too slow. Bogs is too slow. Bogs appears to be one of those guys who is just at the cusp of being "fast enough" and "not fast enough." If he gets dinged at all or gets a little tired or he plays too much in the off-season or has a cold it throws him into the "not fast enough" category and he becomes the 10th man on the bench because he can't get separation on his shot. He might be effective if he doesn't dribble and runs two miles during the game like Buddy Hield, but he just doesn't seem to be that guy. He can maneuver and gets some shots against bigger players, but then he gets killed on the defensive side of the ball by those same players. I just can't see him as the 6th man for a top 10 team in the NBA. He's more of a guy that you put in the game after he's been resting for two or three games so he can take advantage of some vet in January who has tired legs. Vlade has a lot of work to do in the off-season.
I have no affinity for the following players: WCS, Bjelica, Bogs. WCS is a non-competitor, hence his inconsistency. Bjelica and Bogs, though competitive, are both too unathletic at their size to be more than minor pluses. Bjelica is too slow. Bogs is too slow. Bogs appears to be one of those guys who is just at the cusp of being "fast enough" and "not fast enough." If he gets dinged at all or gets a little tired or he plays too much in the off-season or has a cold it throws him into the "not fast enough" category and he becomes the 10th man on the bench because he can't get separation on his shot. He might be effective if he doesn't dribble and runs two miles during the game like Buddy Hield, but he just doesn't seem to be that guy. He can maneuver and gets some shots against bigger players, but then he gets killed on the defensive side of the ball by those same players. I just can't see him as the 6th man for a top 10 team in the NBA. He's more of a guy that you put in the game after he's been resting for two or three games so he can take advantage of some vet in January who has tired legs. Vlade has a lot of work to do in the off-season.
Showtime
Starter
Criticism isn't hate. And there's valid criticism about his lineups.
The biggest problem in this game was that Boston put out a tall lineup that our small-ball lineup couldn't defend. They shot over the Kings, and it was mentioned by the commentators calling the game, called out by the fanbase since the lineup was put in, and it was mentioned by the coach in the post-game interview. Now, if we ALL can see that Bogi defending Tatum isn't a great idea, then WHY THE HELL is coach doing it? Why? Change the lineup.
Why switch so much with a small lineup? The more mobile and athletic and quicker guys should be able to man up. They were exploiting mis-matches all game long, especially when Horford got switched onto a smaller player (plus having Barnes as the main defender there???).
At the end of the day, the Kings can win by minimizing mistakes, sure. No complaint there. But the game might not have had to be won in a last possession scenario if the coach adjusted to what he admits is a problem that everybody can see.
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