[Game] Kings @ Milwaukee Bucks, 1/14/2024, 4:00 PST/7:00p EST

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iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

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#421
#421
SacTownKid said:
This is the issue when you push someone like Keegan up and over Barnes in terms of role and attempts because Keegan simply doesn't get to the line very often. He's still under 2 per game despite seeing both his minutes and attempts climb. Now of course, thankfully they are giving Keegan more of a role since he's the long term piece but in the interim it's pushing the Kings from 5th in FTA per game last season to around 21st this season. Keegan has potential to get to the line but he's still basically a player in catch and shoot for the most part.
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I’d agree except for the last line. He has doubled his shots per game inside the arc from last year and has already surpassed his midrange makes from last season less than half way into this one. Having said that, getting to the line is going to be the toughest skill to add to his bag because it requires consistent aggression. He’s strong enough and long enough to do it but I hace set my expectations low on that front. 2 trips a game would be incredible for him moving forward.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

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#425
#425
iowamcnabb said:
I’d agree except for the last line. He has doubled his shots per game inside the arc from last year and has already surpassed his midrange makes from last season less than half way into this one. Having said that, getting to the line is going to be the toughest skill to add to his bag because it requires consistent aggression. He’s strong enough and long enough to do it but I hace set my expectations low on that front. 2 trips a game would be incredible for him moving forward.
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Yeah, but there are still areas where he is quite minimal and not very efficient right outside the painted area.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/keegan-murray-shot-chart

That will get better in time I'm sure. The other thing that it takes to get to the line is ball handling. We still have to see what happens when he gets doubled and is the focus of a defense. He still tends to stop and pass out when pressed. Also, Keegan still hasn't registered on the iso charts yet. There's been a transition going on for sure but it's been gradual.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

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#426
#426
iowamcnabb

iowamcnabb

Hall of Famer
#430
#430
SacTownKid said:
Yeah, but there are still areas where he is quite minimal and not very efficient right outside the painted area.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/keegan-murray-shot-chart

That will get better in time I'm sure. The other thing that it takes to get to the line is ball handling. We still have to see what happens when he gets doubled and is the focus of a defense. He still tends to stop and pass out when pressed. Also, Keegan still hasn't registered on the iso charts yet. There's been a transition going on for sure but it's been gradual.
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analytically that’s probably about the way the kings want his shot chart to look.
 
Caccia

Caccia

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#435
#435
Maybe having everyone run the floor and back whenever a player missed a free throw in pre-season was not the best idea. It might have created negative, subconscious associations. The Kings are dead last the FT% in the NBA.

I am not a coach, though. Is this a normal practice routine?
 
ShastaKingsFan

ShastaKingsFan

All-Star
#436
#436
Caccia said:
Maybe having everyone run the floor and back whenever a player missed a free throw in pre-season was not the best idea. It might have created negative, subconscious associations. The Kings are dead last the FT% in the NBA.

I am not a coach, though. Is this a normal practice routine?
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It's old fashioned. Doesn't make sense, because part of your conditioning (running) should not be determined by making or missing free throws.
 
GWD

GWD

Bench
#437
#437
Caccia said:
Maybe having everyone run the floor and back whenever a player missed a free throw in pre-season was not the best idea. It might have created negative, subconscious associations. The Kings are dead last the FT% in the NBA.
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Certainly a possibility. Punishment and pain are well-known short-term motivational devices. However, they also cause psychological issues as you suggest. It results in a PTSD-type of long-term reaction. Educational institutions have long recognized this teaching technique as faulty in the classroom and the implication is that it has universal application.

A reward technique suitable to basketball would seem to be far more effective way to modify behavior. As of now, the Kings players appear to regret and perhaps even internally fear shooting free throws. (Except Monk, in general, for reasons stated in prior post.)
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#438
#438
That's an incredibly common way to end practice at literally every level of basketball. Every teammate steps, up, if they drill it, don't run, if they miss, everyone runs.

But yeah, Mike Brown causing "PTSD-type long-term reaction" because he made his team run. lol
 
Caccia

Caccia

Starter
#439
#439
The_Jamal said:
That's an incredibly common way to end practice at literally every level of basketball. Every teammate steps up, if they drill it, don't run, if they miss, everyone runs.
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Laugh if you want, but JaVale McGee looked like he was going to expire during those end of practice workouts. Old school is not necessarily "best practice."

Since you say it is "incredibly common," here is a description:

<One way to simulate game-like pressure during your free throw practice is by attaching consequences to missed shots.

For every missed free throw, impose a physical consequence such as performing 10 pushups or completing a series of sprints. This not only adds a sense of accountability but also replicates the pressure and intensity you would experience in a real game situation.

The fear of facing consequences for missed shots forces you to focus, concentrate, and treat each free throw attempt with the utmost importance.>

I still have doubts.

https://www.swishhoop.com/blogs/blo... simulate game,completing a series of sprints.
 
Kingster

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#440
#440
SacTownKid said:
This is the issue when you push someone like Keegan up and over Barnes in terms of role and attempts because Keegan simply doesn't get to the line very often. He's still under 2 per game despite seeing both his minutes and attempts climb. Now of course, thankfully they are giving Keegan more of a role since he's the long term piece but in the interim it's pushing the Kings from 5th in FTA per game last season to around 21st this season. Keegan has potential to get to the line but he's still basically a player in catch and shoot for the most part.
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Keegan has had nine FTAs over his last five games played. Barnes has had five. It's a small sample, but I'd rather ride the Keegan train with an upward growth trajectory than Barnes on the downward slide. Murray has increased his average FTAs per game to 1.7 this year vs 1.0 last year. Barnes has fallen from 5.0 FTAs last year vs 2.2 this year. Even if you look at the season average, it's only 0.5 difference (2.2 vs 1.7) in FTAs so it's not worth a lot, imo.
 
T

The_Jamal

Hall of Famer
#441
#441
Caccia said:
Laugh if you want, but JaVale McGee looked like he was going to expire during those end of practice workouts. Old school is not necessarily "best practice."

Since you say it is "incredibly common," here is a description:

<One way to simulate game-like pressure during your free throw practice is by attaching consequences to missed shots.

For every missed free throw, impose a physical consequence such as performing 10 pushups or completing a series of sprints. This not only adds a sense of accountability but also replicates the pressure and intensity you would experience in a real game situation.

The fear of facing consequences for missed shots forces you to focus, concentrate, and treat each free throw attempt with the utmost importance.>

I still have doubts.

https://www.swishhoop.com/blogs/blog/do-these-3-things-to-make-more-free-throws#:~:text=One way to simulate game,completing a series of sprints.
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So now Brown is endangering his players to the point of exhaustion? His practices and making his players run if they miss a FT is so damaging and hard that the 0.001% of conditioned humans in the world can't handle it?

Some of you just need to come out and say you don't like Brown. All these mental gymnastics are exhausting.
 
P

Pacboy

Bench
#442
#442
The_Jamal said:
So now Brown is endangering his players to the point of exhaustion? His practices and making his players run if they miss a FT is so damaging and hard that the 0.001% of conditioned humans in the world can't handle it?

Some of you just need to come out and say you don't like Brown. All these mental gymnastics are exhausting.
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If Javale looks that bad at the end of practice, perhaps it’s an idication that maybe he’s not much left of an NBA player at this point in his career
 
GWD

GWD

Bench
#443
#443
The_Jamal said:
So now Brown is endangering his players to the point of exhaustion? His practices and making his players run if they miss a FT is so damaging and hard that the 0.001% of conditioned humans in the world can't handle it?

Some of you just need to come out and say you don't like Brown. All these mental gymnastics are exhausting.
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You have it wrong. Brown is personally fine. He seems upstanding, pleasant, and responsible. What is at question here is his training philosophy and techniques and how those factors affect the players' performance. There are reasons for the underperformance, in certain areas, of gifted and talented athletes like are on the King's roster. Exploring to discover those reasons would seem to be a function of a website such as this.

Simply don't engage in the "mental gymnastics" if you find them too challenging.
 
SacTownKid

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#444
#444
Kingster said:
Keegan has had nine FTAs over his last five games played. Barnes has had five. It's a small sample, but I'd rather ride the Keegan train with an upward growth trajectory than Barnes on the downward slide. Murray has increased his average FTAs per game to 1.7 this year vs 1.0 last year. Barnes has fallen from 5.0 FTAs last year vs 2.2 this year. Even if you look at the season average, it's only 0.5 difference (2.2 vs 1.7) in FTAs so it's not worth a lot, imo.
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But Barnes dropping has everything to do with his role. He's being more of a spot shooter. Barnes has been consistent about getting to the line his whole career when being a focus there.
 
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