steelevt
All-Star
Fox for KD! Make it happen Monte
[Game] Kings @ Mavericks, 10/31/21 12:30pm Pacific, 3:30pm Eastern
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
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captain bill
All-Star
Fox Buddy Barnes Holmes + Davion or Hali. Seems like our best lineup so far? At least for my eye test
And Buddy does look improved. Im glad we didn’t trade him and like what he’s bringing but him still walking into 3s instead of taking them in rhythm isn’t great. Shot selection and lazy possessions in general continues to be a problem
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
I thought the Mavs played really well defensively so hats off to them. We had plenty of opportunities to steal this game even though we weren’t shooting well but couldn’t put together a stretch at the end. Cry Baby sealed it with the dagger. I hate these day time games. Going to be tough not to lose the back to back coming up.
kb02
All-Star
Historically the second game of a b2b between the Mavs and Denver was the Kings achillies heel. Guaranteed to lose by 10+ points.
This Utah game isn’t b2b and they’re not playing a mile high, but I think the Kings will lose by 10+ on Tuesday. Gobert eats Holmes lunch and will be waiting for Fox in the paint since his confidence and jumper is shot.
kb02
All-Star
Problem is that style hasn’t lead to much winning.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
A game or so ago the winner in net rating (in a super small sample obviously and a 5 minutes of game time qualifier) was the same top 3 in all of the NBA last year at one point unit of Fox, Haliburton, Buddy, Barnes, and Holmes. Now here's the thing, Walton has been yanking guys in an out so the qualifiers are super slim now. The only two units that even qualify with at least 5 minutes of game time and 5 games played are these two:
https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&TeamID=1610612758&CF=GP*GE*5:MIN*GE*5&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1
Hey, GOOD EYES! The exact two you called! haha. Both are positive net rating units.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I put Fox in the same mold as Westbrook and John Wall. Great athletes and players. Beat you going downhill and with speed. Very hard to have that type of player be your center piece, because it's all improvisation. Four players wait to see if he can create a shot for himself. When he can't, it's a scramble against the shot clock to score. These players are one dimensional.
This is the reason Luke takes the ball out of Fox’s hands. Luke wants to be able to run half court sets. But Fox isn't built for spot up shooting, or playing east to west. Luke either has to completely commit to Fox and his style, or you have to trade him.
This is the reason Luke takes the ball out of Fox’s hands. Luke wants to be able to run half court sets. But Fox isn't built for spot up shooting, or playing east to west. Luke either has to completely commit to Fox and his style, or you have to trade him.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
It's all they've got though. They ran back basically the same team so smart move says build on what DID work. And some of those advanced stats last year in terms of unit data suggests some very positive things could be ahead if used right. They don't have a ton of upside young players, great shooting all around, great athletes, or a size on the wing to be a versatile defensive team so expecting some miracle bump elsewhere is not a safe gamble.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
at what point do you just decide to try something else if those are the percentages?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
In the grand scheme pretty much ideologically, but, hmmm... trade Fox so you can give a coach that hasn't won anywhere else either, got personally kicked by LeBron James, and trended on twitter more than once last season under the hashtag FIREWALTON. I think there is another way to go maybe.
In the end yeah though, you either build your team to suit your coach, or you get a coach to suit your team. Monte put his eggs in the guard basket so go with it or be gone.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Those 5 man stats kind of surprised me. Luke is changing everything but the strategy. 5 games in and only 2 units have had at least 5 minutes and 5 games together. That's rotation chaos and looks like a squirrel looking for a nut in all the wrong places.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
case in point, Len contributes to the win in Phoenix and then in this game gets a DNP
sactowndog
All-Star
For all the crap Kidd gets I thought it was a great defensive plan. Press out on Buddy and Hali and force Mitchell and Fox to shoot 3’s. Kings so need another wing that can shoot or defend. Harkless was brutal this game.
Livinthedream
All-Star
In the grand scheme pretty much ideologically, but, hmmm... trade Fox so you can give a coach that hasn't won anywhere else either, got personally kicked by LeBron James, and trended on twitter more than once last season under the hashtag FIREWALTON. I think there is another way to go maybe.
In the end yeah though, you either build your team to suit your coach, or you get a coach to suit your team. Monte put his eggs in the guard basket so go with it or be gone.
Well, I'm no doubt on the fire Walton side.
sactowndog
All-Star
In the grand scheme pretty much ideologically, but, hmmm... trade Fox so you can give a coach that hasn't won anywhere else either, got personally kicked by LeBron James, and trended on twitter more than once last season under the hashtag FIREWALTON. I think there is another way to go maybe.
In the end yeah though, you either build your team to suit your coach, or you get a coach to suit your team. Monte put his eggs in the guard basket so go with it or be gone.
Walton isn’t a great coach but this roster is very flawed. Fox and Mitchell just aren’t playable together. Net Rating: -14.8
% from 3
Mitchell. 21.4%
Fox. 17.1%
Davis 10.5%
Harkless 16.7%
sactowndog
All-Star
Yeah they need to Bench Harkless and give Louis King a shot literally and figuratively.
Section 101
All-Star
He hurt his shooting shoulder in I think the Jazz game. He was favoring it the rest of game.
kingsboi
Hall of Famer
I've been preaching this move since game 2
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Oh, no question the roster is gimmicky but gimmicks can work. Even the good teams are starting to run no PF or C lineups. Issue being they can pretty much all put out bulky power guards or 4 guys 6'7" to 6'8" at the same time, the Kings literally can't, or at least not in the way you want to. Maybe long term that's how it works out in the backcourt but Davion plays like a SG/combo and his shot looks like it will translate if used correctly. We have to see if it's they can't play together or if it's trying to run 2 PG's (and 3 in all), none of which are true, who switch off running offense while also not prioritizing high percentage spot shots. They instead rely on iso ball creation with limited outside threats and a lack of emphasizing middle pick and roll the way they need to.
DynaPamm
Bench
I’m more worried on why Hali is so afraid to knock down his 3 point shots??? He has some great looks and yet decided to dribble again , look around either going in for 2 or hang off. This is not what we saw from him last year
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
We also rarely saw him run this much offense with the likes of Harkless and Fox there to spread the floor for him. I'd like to know what the goals for this team are. Are they willing to sacrifice individual development for wins? Or are they just putting players in tough spots so they improve and if they get into that 10th seed it's great? If it's to improve individual ability then we are going to see inconsistent play and potential a late season hole that's insurmountable again. In the end, they just might be doing what this organization has done for over a decade mostly, sit the middle and go which ever way the wind blows. If they are trying to win at all costs then it would make sense to sit players like Bagley who are losing minutes to lesser talented lower ceiling veterans who will help get you more wins now. We just have to hope they continue to face teams that are still trying to find their groove as well and they don't dig any holes. This season is very likely going to be insanely competitive in the back half of they playoff race and play in window. There are some decent to good teams playing poorly, but you can't rely on that after about a month in. The Blazers have stabilized somewhat. The Warriors are back basically. The Suns being below the Kings right now isn't promising, you'd rather that be a team like the Wolves or the Grizz because the Suns staying in that part of things ain't likely. Then they are right back to battling the Spurs to see who hits outside of the draft talent window and who gets the hardest road into the playoffs.
If Hali is going to start with Fox, he has to take and knock down the 3, same goes for Mo.
I’d rather Hield start with Fox and then take Mo out and start Metu with HB. Doesn’t mean Metu gets 30 minutes a game but would like to see more athleticism to start and a better fit.
Stagger in Hali with Davion and Len would be the backup. Also wouldn’t give up on TD as we need him to get his game right. He’s an important piece who is off to a god awful start but they need to get him right.
Fox needs to run pnr with Holmes and even Bagley surrounded by 3 point shooters. He sure the hell isn’t a spot up 3 point shooter waiting on the wing for a kick out. That is not his fault that he’s put into that position. He’s an elite paint scorer. Maybe we can take advantage of his strengths but with Walton you just don’t know
I’d rather Hield start with Fox and then take Mo out and start Metu with HB. Doesn’t mean Metu gets 30 minutes a game but would like to see more athleticism to start and a better fit.
Stagger in Hali with Davion and Len would be the backup. Also wouldn’t give up on TD as we need him to get his game right. He’s an important piece who is off to a god awful start but they need to get him right.
Fox needs to run pnr with Holmes and even Bagley surrounded by 3 point shooters. He sure the hell isn’t a spot up 3 point shooter waiting on the wing for a kick out. That is not his fault that he’s put into that position. He’s an elite paint scorer. Maybe we can take advantage of his strengths but with Walton you just don’t know
SLAB
Hall of Famer
His shot looks just looks wrong too. Last season it was a strange motion but was fluid. Now it seems more … deliberate I guess? Hard to explain, but his couple of 3-point attempts today looked weird.
iowamcnabb
Hall of Famer
Yeh I’m ready to try rolling with Fox, Hali, Buddy, Barnes and Holmes. Our defense hasn’t improved enough to justify the zero from Mo. This might have the added benefit of jumpstarting TD.
I don’t have a ton of confidence in The King but might be worth seeing if he can give us a spark in spot minutes. It would be great if Ramsey tears it up in gleague and we could call him up in the second half. He has shown a nice ability to get to the rack with tough finishes.
Also, is it worth exploring Holmes taking a couple threes a game? His shot has enough arch to hit the roof but he seems to have confidence in it. Repetitive shots seem to be his forte (push and free throws). Maybe find a spot in the offense to get a few looks?
I don’t have a ton of confidence in The King but might be worth seeing if he can give us a spark in spot minutes. It would be great if Ramsey tears it up in gleague and we could call him up in the second half. He has shown a nice ability to get to the rack with tough finishes.
Also, is it worth exploring Holmes taking a couple threes a game? His shot has enough arch to hit the roof but he seems to have confidence in it. Repetitive shots seem to be his forte (push and free throws). Maybe find a spot in the offense to get a few looks?
DynaPamm
Bench
LMAO
macadocious
Starter
we are 3-3 with these numbers and that is amazing/crazy. Gives me hope we have much more, if these guys even shoot their career low it's miles better than this.
First of all we need to make open 3s, which has been a bit of a problem in itself. Secondly, Fox needs to learn to throw those over the shoulder passes backwards out to the elbows, because teams are helping way off there to collapse in the paint. Compare how Luka penetrates and sets guys up vs what Fox does when he attacks. Luka probes, sucks the defense in then kicks it out (while crying foul in the process 
) or has the ability to score inside on crafty post moves. Fox just rams himself into traffic or at best pulls up for that elbow/paint midrange which has been the best thing going for him so far. Tyrese did a much better job of finding the open shooters and frankly has been a way better PG than Fox.
) or has the ability to score inside on crafty post moves. Fox just rams himself into traffic or at best pulls up for that elbow/paint midrange which has been the best thing going for him so far. Tyrese did a much better job of finding the open shooters and frankly has been a way better PG than Fox.
EIM86
Starter
The new sactowndog is this guy lol
sactowndog
All-Star
Part of the problem is 3 guards are at their best with the ball in their hand dribbling into the paint. Too bad we couldn’t trade one of them to Atlanta for Reddish.
kb02
All-Star
Didn’t realize team records the previous few years was so controversial. And you should see who started the Fox for Simmons thread in the summer.
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