[Game] 39/82: Kings @ Bulls 12 JAN 2025, 12:30pm PT/3:30pm ET
- Thread starter Mr. S£im Citrus
- Start date
I’m increasingly convinced you are Monte.
If you want to make the play-offs ( not the play-in ) and actually win a first round match up you need another wing now. We have been dicking around with this lack of wing depth for 3 ****ing years. If Monte were half as good as you claim he would have solved this 2 years ago and not signed a string of risk free UDFA to try to solve it.
the fact of the matter is both in business and in sports management there is no risk free approach to success. One of the valid criticisms of Monte is he looks for the risk free path always and therefore fails to solve the problem repeatedly. It is why we have gone 3 years without solving the wing issue.
He drafted Carter …. Fine now make the trade to get us a playable wing.
as for this…..
And there's just plenty of room for Fox/Monk/Keon/Carter to get playing time, especially as Carter develops. If/when Carter ascends to what we hope him to be, then you start looking how to rebalance the roster. But you make sure he's the guy you think he is, before you make that call.
it is complete BS and follow’s Monte’s middle manager tendencies of trying to shift blame versus solving the problem.
If you want to make the play-offs ( not the play-in ) and actually win a first round match up you need another wing now. We have been dicking around with this lack of wing depth for 3 ****ing years. If Monte were half as good as you claim he would have solved this 2 years ago and not signed a string of risk free UDFA to try to solve it.
the fact of the matter is both in business and in sports management there is no risk free approach to success. One of the valid criticisms of Monte is he looks for the risk free path always and therefore fails to solve the problem repeatedly. It is why we have gone 3 years without solving the wing issue.
He drafted Carter …. Fine now make the trade to get us a playable wing.
as for this…..
And there's just plenty of room for Fox/Monk/Keon/Carter to get playing time, especially as Carter develops. If/when Carter ascends to what we hope him to be, then you start looking how to rebalance the roster. But you make sure he's the guy you think he is, before you make that call.
it is complete BS and follow’s Monte’s middle manager tendencies of trying to shift blame versus solving the problem.
Plenty of people questioned the pick early on, yourself included. So "leaving Keegan out of the discussion" sounds like you wanting to be rather selective in how you evaluate Monte's record. Also, you don't have much grasp of history if you think Davion is one of the top-5 worst Kings picks. Marvin Bagley, Nik Stauskas, Ben McLemore, Jimmer Fredette, and Quincy Douby all say hello. And that's just on this side of the year 2000. Go back further in the Kings' draft history in Sacramento if you want to broaden your understanding of how bad things can get. By comparison, Davion is still a rotation player for Toronto, averaging nearly 25 mpg. I'm not sure your confirmation bias can show any harder.
The point of the draft is to get a rotational player, not to take a flyer on potential. The GMs who do the later usually find themselves out of a job. Generally, less than 40% of first round picks become consistent rotational players (I would include players like Lyles as a rotational player). Of course, you hope they become starters or stars, but most do not even if taken in the lottery.
I'm not the type to go back and hunt for receipts. @The_Jamal did re-post an Ivey comp that you made prior to that draft, but that's also not the same thing as questioning the Keegan pick, so if my overall recollection is incorrect, then I apologize.
That said, this is madness. The Kings passed on perennial MVP candidate Luka Doncic to draft Marvin Bagley, who is currently averaging less than 9 mpg on the worst team in the NBA, a team who is actively tanking in the hopes of drafting Cooper Flagg. They took Jimmer Fredette (via draft day trade) over Kawhi Leonard in the 2011 draft. Who was on the board when the Kings picked in 2021 that you were so high on when they drafted Davion? I would have preferred they grab Jalen Johnson, and Sengun looks great, but he's basically Sabonis 2.0. Missing on those guys is still a world away from passing on Doncic or Leonard, so I really don't understand why the Davion pick is Monte's original sin for you. If Franz Wagner had fallen to the Kings and they had still taken Davion, I would have been pretty upset. But they missed that chance, so Johnson was my next guy. Who was yours?
That said, this is madness. The Kings passed on perennial MVP candidate Luka Doncic to draft Marvin Bagley, who is currently averaging less than 9 mpg on the worst team in the NBA, a team who is actively tanking in the hopes of drafting Cooper Flagg. They took Jimmer Fredette (via draft day trade) over Kawhi Leonard in the 2011 draft. Who was on the board when the Kings picked in 2021 that you were so high on when they drafted Davion? I would have preferred they grab Jalen Johnson, and Sengun looks great, but he's basically Sabonis 2.0. Missing on those guys is still a world away from passing on Doncic or Leonard, so I really don't understand why the Davion pick is Monte's original sin for you. If Franz Wagner had fallen to the Kings and they had still taken Davion, I would have been pretty upset. But they missed that chance, so Johnson was my next guy. Who was yours?
I'm wrong often, but for that particular draft my wishlist at the time was Wagner at 9 with Sengun as my next choice and that Monte would trade a future first for Jalen Johnson.
If Sengun continues his evolution he'll be better than Sabonis, but even if he isn't, I don't think people realize how valuable a good backup center could be. It's why I was hoping the Kings would trade for Robert Williams this offseason and why I wanted McNair to move up to get Filipowski when he started slipping in the draft.
But also another reason you always go BPA in the NBA draft. Having an all-star level big coming off the bench would be a great luxury, but I have to imagine Sengun would net quite a haul in a trade. Obviously we don't know if he would have developed the same way in Sacramento in a smaller role, but he no doubt would have still been very good.
Your don't balance your roster via the draft. You acquired the best talent you can and then use trades to balance your roster as needed.
If Sengun continues his evolution he'll be better than Sabonis, but even if he isn't, I don't think people realize how valuable a good backup center could be. It's why I was hoping the Kings would trade for Robert Williams this offseason and why I wanted McNair to move up to get Filipowski when he started slipping in the draft.
But also another reason you always go BPA in the NBA draft. Having an all-star level big coming off the bench would be a great luxury, but I have to imagine Sengun would net quite a haul in a trade. Obviously we don't know if he would have developed the same way in Sacramento in a smaller role, but he no doubt would have still been very good.
Your don't balance your roster via the draft. You acquired the best talent you can and then use trades to balance your roster as needed.
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apology accepted. I’m old so I never say with absolute certainty but I don’t ever remember advocating for Ivy.
As for draft let me explain my evaluation criteria…
1) what are the team holes
2) how many rotation players were available that addressed those key holes at draft time.
so using the Davion draft as an example.
I show the following 6’8” plus forwards on the board:
Zaire Williams - bust
Trey Murphy - starter
Kai Kones - bust
Jalen Johnson - starter
Usman Garuba - bust
Santi Aldama - rotation
Isaiah Todd- bust
Jeremiah Robinson Earl - rotation
Herb Jones - starter
4 busts
3 starters
2 rotation guys.
so basically if Monte had drawn names out of a hat blindly he had a better than 50% chance of pulling a rotation player. I consider that a very bad draft given team needs and what was on the board in terms of 6’8” swing men.
for the record I wanted Johnson but was more mad we didn’t bother to tank at all and could have gotten Franz who was whom I really wanted.
As for draft let me explain my evaluation criteria…
1) what are the team holes
2) how many rotation players were available that addressed those key holes at draft time.
so using the Davion draft as an example.
I show the following 6’8” plus forwards on the board:
Zaire Williams - bust
Trey Murphy - starter
Kai Kones - bust
Jalen Johnson - starter
Usman Garuba - bust
Santi Aldama - rotation
Isaiah Todd- bust
Jeremiah Robinson Earl - rotation
Herb Jones - starter
4 busts
3 starters
2 rotation guys.
so basically if Monte had drawn names out of a hat blindly he had a better than 50% chance of pulling a rotation player. I consider that a very bad draft given team needs and what was on the board in terms of 6’8” swing men.
for the record I wanted Johnson but was more mad we didn’t bother to tank at all and could have gotten Franz who was whom I really wanted.
Maybe that is more accurate when I said it I was going by eye tests and when Fox is "on" he can be a top defender. Aside from an occasional athletic maneuver (block or rangey steal) I never really see anything impressive from Monk on defense. That's ok with the right lineup around him.
But in hindsight I should have also put more distance from Ellis and Fox even acknowledging that Fox is capable of being a lock when he wants/needs to be.
But in hindsight I should have also put more distance from Ellis and Fox even acknowledging that Fox is capable of being a lock when he wants/needs to be.
I think you’re missing the point…
It’s much easier to keep a guy on the bench that has never started vs. telling a guy who is currently starting to go back to the bench especially after…
It’s much easier to keep a guy on the bench that has never started vs. telling a guy who is currently starting to go back to the bench especially after…
- He finally gets his chance to start after 2 years of coming off the bench (despite expressing his desire to start throughout the years)
- He’s been posting 18.6/4.1/6.5 as a starter
- Accepting a team friendly contract when he might have been able to make more money if he was starting the last couple of years
- The team’s record has been 11-8 while he’s been a starter (and he’s started every game during this 7 game winning streak)
Especially if the player fits. So far the tests that Davion failed in playing 4 positions as Monte stated are being passed by Devin Carter. Gee, might be because they are nothing alike? haha. Obviously some matchups won't work, but look at some of the players he already guarded. Jaylen Brown and a tank named Talen Horton Tucker. No, he's not a fulltime SF, but that guarding up thing? Yeah, doesn't look like a major issue at this point. Nor is him handling the ball. If he was an all offensive player sure, that would be a major issue but he's impacting the game in basically every area outside of offense right now.
your point is true if
a) you can play the person enough to develop in their role
b) you actually make a trade and don’t just keep stacking assets.
neither of these were true in the case of Davion and at 10 min a night when all are healthy is not starting well for Carter. Lastly it is much easier to trade big for small.
a) you can play the person enough to develop in their role
b) you actually make a trade and don’t just keep stacking assets.
neither of these were true in the case of Davion and at 10 min a night when all are healthy is not starting well for Carter. Lastly it is much easier to trade big for small.
I think whatever Carter does this season is gravy. A rookie missing 9 months of ball, summer league, training camp really puts you behind the 8-ball. It's much smarter to continue to bring him along slow, don't give him too much on his plate and keep him in a muted 10-15 MPG role for now.
He's looked awesome, but I think that's also partially because we've put him in spots to succeed so far. Why ruin his good developmental track when what we are doing is working?
He's looked awesome, but I think that's also partially because we've put him in spots to succeed so far. Why ruin his good developmental track when what we are doing is working?