Kings free agency, part 3

funkykingston said:
I have some concerns with Rondo but his ego, passing and defense aren't anywhere near the top of the list.

It's not surprising that Rondo clashed with Carlisle. He's a very good coach but also the closest modern comparison to Fratello with Popovich's habit of riding all his players hard. He wants to call out a play on pretty much every possession and also can be relentlessly critical of his guys. Given Rondo's attitude I'm not surprised that their relationship didn't work at all.

I think he and Karl will get along fine. BUT the big concern there is Karl's desire to play fast and Rondo's tendency to walk the ball up each time. I think Karl will be fine letting Rondo call plays as long as he gets the rhythm and pace he wants out of him. So that's one concern of mine. The other is obviously his shooting which doesn't help when the Kings were already a poor outside shooting team.

But I think Rondo will get along fine with Cousins & Gay, not to mention WCS, Collison, McLemore, Bellinelli and Casspi, I don't see where the clash would come from. Rondo's biggest skill is passing and finding guys for easy looks. It isn't as if he's a chucker that will alienate his teammates. And defensively if he can't get engaged this year then I think he has to know his value on the market is only going to decrease just as the salary cap is exploding.

No, if his poor shooting doesn't hurt the Kings too much I'm guessing we'll see a very good year out of Rondo. And probably a fair amount of he and Collison on the floor together to close out games.
Click to expand...
I don't even care if any of this is true or not. It is positive and hopeful so I "Liked" it.
 
funkykingston said:
No, if his poor shooting doesn't hurt the Kings too much I'm guessing we'll see a very good year out of Rondo. And probably a fair amount of he and Collison on the floor together to close out games.
Click to expand...

I am guessing this will be the case. If you need spacing, you can run three out of four of Rondo, Collison, Ben and Bellinelli along with Gay and Cousins. Rondo may actually be better at defending twos after his injury. He is small, but has a ridiculous 6'9" wingspan, so guarding taller twos isn't a big problem. Assuming the starting lineup is Rondo, Ben, Gay, Koufos, Cousins, I wouldn't be shocked to see Rondo guarding twos primarily and let Ben guard the point.
 
Amit149 said:
No, the thing about them getting our ping-pong balls means that if we win the lottery the pick goes to them, if we win 1/2/3 and they are to pick after us they get our pick, by that they improve their odds at the lottery... that's what I meant.
Click to expand...

Got it. Choosing after the position has been determined does help the team that gets to choose to swap.
 
Amit149 said:
Why does he hate money?

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA
Free agent David West has agreed to a veteran's minimum deal with the Spurs, league source tells Yahoo Sports. @daldridgetnt first reported.
Click to expand...

I don't get it.

But, you know what? At least it's the Spurs. They were going to be in the playoffs for sure next year anyway. It's a heck of a lot better than West going to a different Western Conference contender and maybe helping them steal our (hopeful) playoff slot.
 
Peter_Gibbons said:
Houston Rockets Rumors: Josh Smith, Sacramento Kings Deal Option After Corey Brewer, Patrick Beverley Signed? Rudy Gay, Rajon Rondo Recruit with DeMarcus Cousins
http://www.sportsworldreport.com/ar...-gay-rajon-rondo-recruit-demarcus-cousins.htm
Click to expand...

This seems like a lot of speculation. I mean, the article says that the Kings are willing to spend the money that Houston isn't...but we have basically zero to spend. If all the numbers line up in our favor, maybe $4M tops. I'd love to think that Smith would take that, but it's not like we can possibly outbid the Rockets, who could use their full MLE.
 
Capt. Factorial said:
I don't get it.

But, you know what? At least it's the Spurs. They were going to be in the playoffs for sure next year anyway. It's a heck of a lot better than West going to a different Western Conference contender and maybe helping them steal our (hopeful) playoff slot.
Click to expand...

I'm just happy they'll have ammo to beat the Warriors. God I hate the Warriors.
 
Entity said:
Rondo came after shower but the Philly trade, belinelli, Kofous, and now the Omri news all while in shower. I was outside with sprinkles on grass for rondo. Hmmmm it has a connection with my water usage. Let me go turn on dishwasher and close this omri thing.
Click to expand...
Isn't it about time for you to take a nice long swim or something? Just sayn' it's 2:30 and no Free Agent today!
 
There's been a lot of back and forth on the cap situation, so let me set the record straight. If Basketball Insiders is correct (and they have been the most accurate site I have come across so far http://www.basketballinsiders.com/sacramento-kings-team-salary/), this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Ray McCallum $947,276
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
David Stockton $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $65,802,227
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $3,297,773

**This is assuming Casspi's deal is the room exception and Anderson's deal is the veteran minimum. If this is the case, these deals would not be counted against the cap just yet because they would be processed after we have used up our cap space (or I hope that is their plan).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we waive Stockton, this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Ray McCallum $947,276
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $65,482,261
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $3,617,739

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we waive McCallum & Stockton, this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $65,060,078
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $4,039,922

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we waive Moreland, McCallum, & Stockton, this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $64,740,112
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $4,359,888

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I prefer waiving Stockton, spending $3.6 mil on Josh Smith, using the Room Exception on Casspi, and then adding Andre Miller, Reggie Evans, & James Anderson to veteran minimum deals.

PG - Rondo/Collison/Miller/McCallum
SG - McLemore/Belinelli/Anderson
SF - Gay/Casspi
PF - Cousins/Smith/Evans/Moreland
C - Koufos/Cauley-Stein

The funny thing is you could have a very, very halfcourt oriented lineup in Rondo/Belinelli/Gay/Cousins/Koufos but then have a very, very uptempo lineup in Collison/McLemore/Casspi/Smith/Cauley-Stein. Our versatility is pretty insane if you think about it. Smith would only increase that versatility.
 
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Capt. Factorial said:
This seems like a lot of speculation. I mean, the article says that the Kings are willing to spend the money that Houston isn't...but we have basically zero to spend. If all the numbers line up in our favor, maybe $4M tops. I'd love to think that Smith would take that, but it's not like we can possibly outbid the Rockets, who could use their full MLE.
Click to expand...

Yeah, another online "article" that seems to just be stringing a few things together. Especially since it refers to Smith as a "guard" toward the end.

The Kings MIGHT have $4M or so to spend IF Omri signed using the room exception and Stockton is waived. But Houston has Smith's Bird Rights and the MLE so it really depends on how much they want him back.

With the new deals for Beverley and Brewer and signing Dekker and Harrell to their rookie contracts I think the Rockets will be at the luxury tax threshold. And they've already said they'd match all offers for KJ McDaniels. Maybe they don't want to go deep into the luxury tax this season for Josh Smith. Or maybe he would really prefer to play with Rondo and Rudy. Both could be possible. But I think it's still more likely that he ends up back in Houston than in Sacramento.

But I'm still trying to figure out if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I've never liked Smith's horrible inefficiency on offense but there's a part of me that thinks he could really do well in Karl's system.
 
twslam07 said:
There's been a lot of back and forth on the cap situation, so let me set the record straight. If Basketball Insiders is correct (and they have been the most accurate site I have come across so far http://www.basketballinsiders.com/sacramento-kings-team-salary/), this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Ray McCallum $947,276
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
David Stockton $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $65,802,227
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $3,297,773

**This is assuming Casspi's deal is the room exception and Anderson's deal is the veteran minimum. If this is the case, these deals would not be counted against the cap just yet because they would be processed after we have used up our cap space (or I hope that is their plan).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we waive Stockton, this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Ray McCallum $947,276
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $65,482,261
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $3,617,739

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we waive McCallum & Stockton, this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Eric Moreland $845,059
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $65,060,078
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $4,039,922

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If we waive Moreland, McCallum, & Stockton, this is our cap situation:

DeMarcus Cousins $15,851,950
Rudy Gay $12,403,101
Rajon Rondo $9,500,000
Kostas Koufos $7,000,000
Marco Belinelli $6,000,000
Darren Collison $5,013,559
Ben McLemore $3,156,600
Willie Cauley-Stein (Cap Hold) $2,831,900
Wayne Ellington (Stretch) $882,630
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093
Undrafted Rookie FA (Cap Hold) $525,093

Total Payroll = $64,740,112
Salary Cap = $69,100,000
Cap Space = $4,359,888
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. But here's the one thing I'm not understanding. Is part of Stockton's deal guaranteed? If not, why would waiving him only give the Kings an extra $320,000 instead of the full $850,000?
 
funkykingston said:
Thanks for that. But here's the one thing I'm not understanding. Is part of Stockton's deal guaranteed? If not, why would waiving him only give the Kings an extra $320,000 instead of the full $850,000?
Click to expand...

It's completely unguaranteed. However, the Kings must have 12 roster slots accounted for at all times. You'll notice that in my breakdown that when Stockton is waived, another "Undrafted Rookie FA Cap Hold" is included (to keep us at 12 players). This cap hold is $525,093, so by waiving Stockton ($845,059), you're really only creating $319,966 in cap space ($845,059 - $525,093 = $319,966).
 
I hope someone can clarify things for me in regards to signing Josh Smith. I believe he is still on the pistons payroll (10 mill stretched over 2 years) So would any money from the Kings under the 5 or 10 mill number have any impact on him or does it just off set the Detroit money? My point being is there any reason to offer him more the vet min if we can't offer more than 5 mill?
 
twslam07 said:
It's completely unguaranteed. However, the Kings must have 12 roster slots accounted for at all times. You'll notice that in my breakdown that when Stockton is waived, another "Undrafted Rookie FA Cap Hold" is included (to keep us at 12 players). This cap hold is $525,093, so by waiving Stockton ($845,059), you're really only creating $319,966 in cap space.
Click to expand...

Okay, (and maybe I'm dense) but if we sign a player with the existing caproom then that cap hold wouldn't be in play right? So theoretically we could offer Josh Smith or Dorell Wright the full $4M and change and the roster hold created by releasing Stockton wouldn't exist since we've now filled a roster spot, correct?
 
funkykingston said:
Okay, (and maybe I'm dense) but if we sign a player with the existing caproom then that cap hold wouldn't be in play right? So theoretically we could offer Josh Smith or Dorell Wright the full $4M and change and the roster hold created by releasing Stockton wouldn't exist since we've now filled a roster spot, correct?
Click to expand...

Correct. Right now we have 10 players (not including Anderson or Casspi for the reasons stated earlier). Cauley-Stein's cap hold bring us to 11 roster positions accounted for and Ellington's stretch does not count as a roster spot so that means we have 11 spots accounted for. If you fall below 12 spots, you are automatically given undrafted rookie FA cap holds until you are at 12 spots, so in this case, we have 1 undrafted rookie FA cap hold in place.

If we waive Stockton, we just lost another player so we have to add another undrafted rookie FA cap hold to bring us back to 12. If we were to sign another player (Josh Smith), one of our undrafted rookie cap holds would disappear considering Josh Smith would now hold the 11th roster slot.

The weird thing is if we waive Stockton and sign Smith to say a deal that is only $2 mil in it's first year, we would actually still have another $2 mil to spend. This is how it would work:
  1. Current Roster: Cap Space = $3,297,773
  2. Waive Stockton: Cap Space = $3,617,739 ($3,297,773 + ($845,059 - $525,093))
  3. Sign Josh Smith for $2 mil: Cap Space = $2,142,832 ($3,617,739 - ($2,000,000 - $525,093))
So basically this little step by step layout is just trying to showcase that when you have undrafted rookie FA cap holds, you actually get a little cap space back every time you make a signing. Yeah, you are spending your cap space, but at the same time, you're freeing up the $525,093 cap hold that no longer is relevant.

EDIT: To summarize a bit, we could offer one player $3.6 mil or we could offer two players $2 mil each and our cap space will be completely used up (this is under the assumption that Stockton is waived).
 
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Capt. Factorial said:
This seems like a lot of speculation. I mean, the article says that the Kings are willing to spend the money that Houston isn't...but we have basically zero to spend. If all the numbers line up in our favor, maybe $4M tops. I'd love to think that Smith would take that, but it's not like we can possibly outbid the Rockets, who could use their full MLE.
Click to expand...

Okay, I'm not entirely sure that I know how waivers work with multi-year contracts, but my understanding is that Smith still gets his Detroit contract no matter what for the next few years. Whatever money he gets paid by his eventual team is just offset by the Detroit dollars, meaning Sacramento should be able to sign him for vet minimum and the difference is made up by the Pistons. It may even be preferable to sign a minimum contract here for a year as the state taxes would come out of wherever the paycheck is drawn, so he would pay lower Michigan taxes on the Detroit paycheck.

Am I very wrong on this?

In any case, he had some great chemistry with Dwight in Houston at the end of the season last year, and those two are close friends from AAU days. Even with Rudy and Rondo on the team, I don't see him leaving a guaranteed winning situation.
 
"Hi there Josh, this is Rajon and Rudy, we're putting the Band back together!!"
We got $3,617,739 for ya this season
and we can both get paid next year when the cap goes up next year after we make the playoffs
We have always wanted to play together! Now is the time!
If you don't come we will show up here at your favorite restaurant every night and fling
shrimp at each other until you sign!
 
Jkbiker said:
"Hi there Josh, this is Rajon and Rudy, we're putting the Band back together!!"
We got $3,617,739 for ya this season
and we can both get paid next year when the cap goes up next year after we make the playoffs

We have always wanted to play together! Now is the time!
Click to expand...
th
 
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Reactions: lwc
Hadlowe said:
Okay, I'm not entirely sure that I know how waivers work with multi-year contracts, but my understanding is that Smith still gets his Detroit contract no matter what for the next few years. Whatever money he gets paid by his eventual team is just offset by the Detroit dollars, meaning Sacramento should be able to sign him for vet minimum and the difference is made up by the Pistons. It may even be preferable to sign a minimum contract here for a year as the state taxes would come out of wherever the paycheck is drawn, so he would pay lower Michigan taxes on the Detroit paycheck.

Am I very wrong on this?

In any case, he had some great chemistry with Dwight in Houston at the end of the season last year, and those two are close friends from AAU days. Even with Rudy and Rondo on the team, I don't see him leaving a guaranteed winning situation.
Click to expand...
That is my understanding as well, but i am hoping some one better versed in NBA money matters would address it... Paging Captain Factorial!
 
Rockmeister said:
Oh, please no

Please no on Hollins.
Click to expand...

Katie has argued he's a good lockerroom guy, so while Reggie would be my preference given that we have 3 near 7 footers already, Hollins will of course be a vet min, and if he's popular, why not as the 14th man or whatever?

If it were me though I'd wait to see what Moreland looked like in Summer League first.
 
Hadlowe said:
It may even be preferable to sign a minimum contract here for a year as the state taxes would come out of wherever the paycheck is drawn, so he would pay lower Michigan taxes on the Detroit paycheck.

Am I very wrong on this?
Click to expand...

Normally when you come to a California Team you would become a CA Resident

As a resident All world wide income is taxable in Calif
Some out-of-state games might generate an non-resident tax, but then usually either that state or calif would give a tax credit for the lower tax to avoid double taxation
Net effect all income would be subject to Calif tax rate

Source of the check , not an issue, it is where the income is earned
 
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