Kings free agency, part 3
- Thread starter Darth Divac
- Start date
If I understand correctly the pick swaps are only for the next two years. If so next year won't matter because the Sixers will be awful and the Kings will likely convey to Chicago anyway. So the Kings would just have to be better than the Sixers in two seasons for the pick swaps to be a complete non-factor.
We just have to be in the mix(which Vlade has imo). A lot of variables like injuries and other stuff impact seasons. If we can stay healthy and things go our way we should at the least be playing meaningful games in April. Its also no shame to miss the playoffs in the west, in my view if you can get in you have a chance to go all the way. As opposed to 10 years ago where you were the 8th seed you were happy to be there, take your beating and call it a season.
Finishing 9th or 10th in the west is the equivalent of being a top 4 seed in the east.
Finishing 9th or 10th in the west is the equivalent of being a top 4 seed in the east.
i was backpacking through the ansel adams wilderness in inyo national forest all last week with my wife and our dog, so i missed the majority of the free agency action across the nba. but now i'm caught up on current events, and you all had yourselves quite a time at kf.com without me! 
i think the marco belinelli signing was smart and shrewd; he will undoubtedly help the kings' outside shooting problems, and he's a high-IQ player who's winning experience under gregg popovich can be nothing but an asset. and i absolutely love the kosta koufos signing. he was a guy i had hoped the kings were targeting, and i'm very pleased they were able to land him. as long as demarcus cousins sticks around, he, WCS, and koufos will be an extremely formidable frontline rotation across the next few seasons. if WCS becomes the player i hope he'll become, it could easily be the strongest defensive frontline rotation in the west...
then there's the rajon rondo signing. i knew it was a possibility that he would sign here (even a likelihood, given rudy gay's friendship with rondo), though i'm not exactly the biggest fan of the move. i am glad that both camps were determined to ink a one-year deal, though. rondo's got a "make good" season coming up, and he's certainly going to want to prove that injuries and an unfortunate stint in dallas don't represent the end of his effectiveness. and if it doesn't work out for the kings, they can easily cut him loose next offseason. i'm just not sure how it does work out for the kings. rondo will have to temper his ego considerably (perhaps a difficult task when playing for george karl/playing with demarcus cousins), he'll have to get real comfortable feeding big cuz in the post and finding the kings' shooters in space, and he'll have to reacquire some of his drive on the defensive end. all told, i'm not convinced that he's any kind of "upgrade" over darren collison, though i am happy that the kings now have a legitimate PG rotation infused with veteran talent...
elsewhere, i found the thompson/landry/stauskas trade rather perplexing at first, though i appreciate the urgency it communicates. i don't really have a problem with the kings unloading minimal contributors, even the developing stauskas, but i am made a bit nervous by the future draft picks involved. it's certainly a ballsy move that emphasizes the need for the team to improve immediately and make a run at the playoffs. and lastly, i wasn't surprised that wes matthews turned down the kings' offer, but it was encouraging to me that vlade had clearly targeted the right kinda player for this team. i like that he played the role of vladfather, making matthews an offer that he wouldn't have been able to refuse under more stable circumstances for this franchise; making such an offer was an acknowledgment that this franchise's reputation is in a broken state, but that vlade's going to try to do everything in his power to repair it...
i think the marco belinelli signing was smart and shrewd; he will undoubtedly help the kings' outside shooting problems, and he's a high-IQ player who's winning experience under gregg popovich can be nothing but an asset. and i absolutely love the kosta koufos signing. he was a guy i had hoped the kings were targeting, and i'm very pleased they were able to land him. as long as demarcus cousins sticks around, he, WCS, and koufos will be an extremely formidable frontline rotation across the next few seasons. if WCS becomes the player i hope he'll become, it could easily be the strongest defensive frontline rotation in the west...
then there's the rajon rondo signing. i knew it was a possibility that he would sign here (even a likelihood, given rudy gay's friendship with rondo), though i'm not exactly the biggest fan of the move. i am glad that both camps were determined to ink a one-year deal, though. rondo's got a "make good" season coming up, and he's certainly going to want to prove that injuries and an unfortunate stint in dallas don't represent the end of his effectiveness. and if it doesn't work out for the kings, they can easily cut him loose next offseason. i'm just not sure how it does work out for the kings. rondo will have to temper his ego considerably (perhaps a difficult task when playing for george karl/playing with demarcus cousins), he'll have to get real comfortable feeding big cuz in the post and finding the kings' shooters in space, and he'll have to reacquire some of his drive on the defensive end. all told, i'm not convinced that he's any kind of "upgrade" over darren collison, though i am happy that the kings now have a legitimate PG rotation infused with veteran talent...
elsewhere, i found the thompson/landry/stauskas trade rather perplexing at first, though i appreciate the urgency it communicates. i don't really have a problem with the kings unloading minimal contributors, even the developing stauskas, but i am made a bit nervous by the future draft picks involved. it's certainly a ballsy move that emphasizes the need for the team to improve immediately and make a run at the playoffs. and lastly, i wasn't surprised that wes matthews turned down the kings' offer, but it was encouraging to me that vlade had clearly targeted the right kinda player for this team. i like that he played the role of vladfather, making matthews an offer that he wouldn't have been able to refuse under more stable circumstances for this franchise; making such an offer was an acknowledgment that this franchise's reputation is in a broken state, but that vlade's going to try to do everything in his power to repair it...
Capt., I definitely look for your posts as clarification, but I am having a hard time understanding this. If there was no mention of a trade and we just signed Rondo and Cauley-Stein, we would be over the cap at that point. We then trade our contracts to Philly into their space which creates the exception I thought. I lean towards your understanding in this dept, but the articles understanding was mine as well.
Maybe someone can set me straight if I'm confused.... but don't we still have a 5.8 mil trade exception from the Jason Terry trade and about 2 mil from Ramon Sessions that are going to expire in a few months which means we can take on small salary dumps from other teams even though we are at the cap limit? 5.8 Mil could pick us up a solid roll player that a team might be looking to drop for more room....
That could happen, yes. But the problem is that...well, let me spitball some numbers just to make it concrete. Let's even use fake numbers so we don't get caught up in the actual numbers, which are unimportant. So the fake salary cap is $100M. We have fake $80M in salaries, including JT, etc. We sign fake Rondo to an $18M contract, so our salaries are at $98M. Then we sign fake WCS to a $5M contract. Our salaries are at $103M, but we can use the rookie exception to sign WCS. Now we trade fake JT/Nik/Landry to the Sixers for the second round picks taking no salary back - they make fake $25M combined, so our salary drops to $78M and we get a trade exception for $25M. (Technically I think this trade exception would be three smaller ones in the size of the three contracts we sent...but that's not material.)
Now - we have $78M in salaries and $25M in trade exception(s). That's $103M against the cap, because the trade exception counts against the cap. So we can't sign any free agents. But we want to sign fake Belinelli to $9M and fake Koufos to $13M. If we renounce the trade exception(s), we have enough cap space to do this. But, poof!, the trade exception(s) are gone when we renounce them to sign Beli/Koufos.
So can we create the trade exception? Sure. Can we sign players while keeping the trade exception? No. I hope the above made sense.
Now - we have $78M in salaries and $25M in trade exception(s). That's $103M against the cap, because the trade exception counts against the cap. So we can't sign any free agents. But we want to sign fake Belinelli to $9M and fake Koufos to $13M. If we renounce the trade exception(s), we have enough cap space to do this. But, poof!, the trade exception(s) are gone when we renounce them to sign Beli/Koufos.
So can we create the trade exception? Sure. Can we sign players while keeping the trade exception? No. I hope the above made sense.
That's not competely accurate- it's more like calling David Robert Joseph Beckham, David Robert- which is confusing and I have no idea why someone needs two middle names...
I am fully aware of that- the thing is if we don't make the playoffs those swaps are valuable to the 76ers because they buy them more ping-balls even if we are better than them.
Great post. pretty much sums up how I feel about the moves we made...
I am fully aware of that- the thing is if we don't make the playoffs those swaps are valuable to the 76ers because they buy them more ping-balls even if we are better than them.
i was backpacking through the ansel adams wilderness in inyo national forest all last week with my wife and our dog, so i missed the majority of the free agency action across the nba. but now i'm caught up on current events, and you all had yourselves quite a time at kf.com without me!
i think the marco belinelli signing was smart and shrewd; he will undoubtedly help the kings' outside shooting problems, and he's a high-IQ player who's winning experience under gregg popovich can be nothing but an asset. and i absolutely love the kosta koufos signing. he was a guy i had hoped the kings were targeting, and i'm very pleased they were able to land him. as long as demarcus cousins sticks around, he, WCS, and koufos will be an extremely formidable frontline rotation across the next few seasons. if WCS becomes the player i hope he'll become, it could easily be the strongest defensive frontline rotation in the west...
then there's the rajon rondo signing. i knew it was a possibility that he would sign here (even a likelihood, given rudy gay's friendship with rondo), though i'm not exactly the biggest fan of the move. i am glad that both camps were determined to ink a one-year deal, though. rondo's got a "make good" season coming up, and he's certainly going to want to prove that injuries and an unfortunate stint in dallas don't represent the end of his effectiveness. and if it doesn't work out for the kings, they can easily cut him loose next offseason. i'm just not sure how it does work out for the kings. rondo will have to temper his ego considerably (perhaps a difficult task when playing for george karl/playing with demarcus cousins), he'll have to get real comfortable feeding big cuz in the post and finding the kings' shooters in space, and he'll have to reacquire some of his drive on the defensive end. all told, i'm not convinced that he's any kind of "upgrade" over darren collison, though i am happy that the kings now have a legitimate PG rotation infused with veteran talent...
elsewhere, i found the thompson/landry/stauskas trade rather perplexing at first, though i appreciate the urgency it communicates. i don't really have a problem with the kings unloading minimal contributors, even the developing stauskas, but i am made a bit nervous by the future draft picks involved. it's certainly a ballsy move that emphasizes the need for the team to improve immediately and make a run at the playoffs. and lastly, i wasn't surprised that wes matthews turned down the kings' offer, but it was encouraging to me that vlade had clearly targeted the right kinda player for this team. i like that he played the role of vladfather, making matthews an offer that he wouldn't have been able to refuse under more stable circumstances for this franchise; making such an offer was an acknowledgment that this franchise's reputation is in a broken state, but that vlade's going to try to do everything in his power to repair it...
i think the marco belinelli signing was smart and shrewd; he will undoubtedly help the kings' outside shooting problems, and he's a high-IQ player who's winning experience under gregg popovich can be nothing but an asset. and i absolutely love the kosta koufos signing. he was a guy i had hoped the kings were targeting, and i'm very pleased they were able to land him. as long as demarcus cousins sticks around, he, WCS, and koufos will be an extremely formidable frontline rotation across the next few seasons. if WCS becomes the player i hope he'll become, it could easily be the strongest defensive frontline rotation in the west...
then there's the rajon rondo signing. i knew it was a possibility that he would sign here (even a likelihood, given rudy gay's friendship with rondo), though i'm not exactly the biggest fan of the move. i am glad that both camps were determined to ink a one-year deal, though. rondo's got a "make good" season coming up, and he's certainly going to want to prove that injuries and an unfortunate stint in dallas don't represent the end of his effectiveness. and if it doesn't work out for the kings, they can easily cut him loose next offseason. i'm just not sure how it does work out for the kings. rondo will have to temper his ego considerably (perhaps a difficult task when playing for george karl/playing with demarcus cousins), he'll have to get real comfortable feeding big cuz in the post and finding the kings' shooters in space, and he'll have to reacquire some of his drive on the defensive end. all told, i'm not convinced that he's any kind of "upgrade" over darren collison, though i am happy that the kings now have a legitimate PG rotation infused with veteran talent...
elsewhere, i found the thompson/landry/stauskas trade rather perplexing at first, though i appreciate the urgency it communicates. i don't really have a problem with the kings unloading minimal contributors, even the developing stauskas, but i am made a bit nervous by the future draft picks involved. it's certainly a ballsy move that emphasizes the need for the team to improve immediately and make a run at the playoffs. and lastly, i wasn't surprised that wes matthews turned down the kings' offer, but it was encouraging to me that vlade had clearly targeted the right kinda player for this team. i like that he played the role of vladfather, making matthews an offer that he wouldn't have been able to refuse under more stable circumstances for this franchise; making such an offer was an acknowledgment that this franchise's reputation is in a broken state, but that vlade's going to try to do everything in his power to repair it...
As with the potential trade exceptions I mentioned above, those trade exceptions will have to be renounced to get us the room to make our signings.
The salary cap is a weird beast. It won't budge an inch if you want to sign somebody else's free agent, but it has a ton of give for trades and nearly infinite give to resign your own players. If you're under the cap to start, it's nearly impossible to get much over the cap that season. Once you're over the cap...the next season you can blast off, but outside of the MLE you don't get to sign anybody else's free agents without it being a sign-and-trade.
The salary cap is a weird beast. It won't budge an inch if you want to sign somebody else's free agent, but it has a ton of give for trades and nearly infinite give to resign your own players. If you're under the cap to start, it's nearly impossible to get much over the cap that season. Once you're over the cap...the next season you can blast off, but outside of the MLE you don't get to sign anybody else's free agents without it being a sign-and-trade.
I have some concerns with Rondo but his ego, passing and defense aren't anywhere near the top of the list.
It's not surprising that Rondo clashed with Carlisle. He's a very good coach but also the closest modern comparison to Fratello with Popovich's habit of riding all his players hard. He wants to call out a play on pretty much every possession and also can be relentlessly critical of his guys. Given Rondo's attitude I'm not surprised that their relationship didn't work at all.
I think he and Karl will get along fine. BUT the big concern there is Karl's desire to play fast and Rondo's tendency to walk the ball up each time. I think Karl will be fine letting Rondo call plays as long as he gets the rhythm and pace he wants out of him. So that's one concern of mine. The other is obviously his shooting which doesn't help when the Kings were already a poor outside shooting team.
But I think Rondo will get along fine with Cousins & Gay, not to mention WCS, Collison, McLemore, Bellinelli and Casspi, I don't see where the clash would come from. Rondo's biggest skill is passing and finding guys for easy looks. It isn't as if he's a chucker that will alienate his teammates. And defensively if he can't get engaged this year then I think he has to know his value on the market is only going to decrease just as the salary cap is exploding.
No, if his poor shooting doesn't hurt the Kings too much I'm guessing we'll see a very good year out of Rondo. And probably a fair amount of he and Collison on the floor together to close out games.
It's not surprising that Rondo clashed with Carlisle. He's a very good coach but also the closest modern comparison to Fratello with Popovich's habit of riding all his players hard. He wants to call out a play on pretty much every possession and also can be relentlessly critical of his guys. Given Rondo's attitude I'm not surprised that their relationship didn't work at all.
I think he and Karl will get along fine. BUT the big concern there is Karl's desire to play fast and Rondo's tendency to walk the ball up each time. I think Karl will be fine letting Rondo call plays as long as he gets the rhythm and pace he wants out of him. So that's one concern of mine. The other is obviously his shooting which doesn't help when the Kings were already a poor outside shooting team.
But I think Rondo will get along fine with Cousins & Gay, not to mention WCS, Collison, McLemore, Bellinelli and Casspi, I don't see where the clash would come from. Rondo's biggest skill is passing and finding guys for easy looks. It isn't as if he's a chucker that will alienate his teammates. And defensively if he can't get engaged this year then I think he has to know his value on the market is only going to decrease just as the salary cap is exploding.
No, if his poor shooting doesn't hurt the Kings too much I'm guessing we'll see a very good year out of Rondo. And probably a fair amount of he and Collison on the floor together to close out games.
Are you suggesting that the 76ers get the King's ping-pong balls even if they are worse than the Kings? That would be surprising. I assume the 76ers would have to decide whether they are swapping positions before the draft and each team would get ping-pong balls equivalent to their position.
Have you read something different?
Have you read something different?
I've gone back several pages but I don't see any comment where you are talking about trade exceptions, could have missed one.
Anyway, in order to use cap space, we can't have ANY trade exceptions that put us over the cap. We could get a salary dump player in trade, but he would have to fit in to our actual cap space. There's no fundamental difference between being under the cap and using cap space to get a salary dump or being over the cap and using a trade exception to get a salary dump. But we'd be under the cap, so our trade exceptions would go bye-bye, and we'd have to use cap space.
Anyway, in order to use cap space, we can't have ANY trade exceptions that put us over the cap. We could get a salary dump player in trade, but he would have to fit in to our actual cap space. There's no fundamental difference between being under the cap and using cap space to get a salary dump or being over the cap and using a trade exception to get a salary dump. But we'd be under the cap, so our trade exceptions would go bye-bye, and we'd have to use cap space.
No, the thing about them getting our ping-pong balls means that if we win the lottery the pick goes to them, if we win 1/2/3 and they are to pick after us they get our pick, by that they improve their odds at the lottery... that's what I meant.
BTW the whole Luc Richard Mbah a Moute is really confusing. his father is called Camille Mouté à Bidias, which I read as meaning is last name is Moute or a Moute.
If that is true my analogy to Beckham works after all!
EDIT: upon further review I'm changing my answer- his last name appear to be Mbah a Moute and my Beckham analogy sucks!
BTW the whole Luc Richard Mbah a Moute is really confusing. his father is called Camille Mouté à Bidias, which I read as meaning is last name is Moute or a Moute.
If that is true my analogy to Beckham works after all!
EDIT: upon further review I'm changing my answer- his last name appear to be Mbah a Moute and my Beckham analogy sucks!
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Why does he hate money?
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Free agent David West has agreed to a veteran's minimum deal with the Spurs, league source tells Yahoo Sports. @daldridgetnt first reported.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
Free agent David West has agreed to a veteran's minimum deal with the Spurs, league source tells Yahoo Sports. @daldridgetnt first reported.