Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
The fourth in our prediciton poll series (I did promise one a day until training camp afterall). This one centers on Marcus Thornton's future with the Kings.
KF Kings Prediction Poll #4: Thornton's Fate?
- Thread starter Bricklayer
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I don't know about you, but moving Thornton seems like the exact wrong thing to do. Eric Gordon just got the max and Thornton can go toe to toe with that dude any day. Odds of finding equal value for a player making half of what his counterparts make is going to be impossible.
If they do to him what they did in NO this team and coaching staff is even dumber than I already think they are.
If they do to him what they did in NO this team and coaching staff is even dumber than I already think they are.
I said 14-16 as a 6th man. It's tough because I think MT23 will be coming off the bench this year, but he's the kind of guy who could easily approach 20ppg as a 6th man getting 30 minutes. That said, with the addition of Brooks, there probably aren't 30 backcourt minutes for him as the team is currently constructed unless Tyreke plays the bulk of his time at the 3 again (bad idea). 14-16 is probably close under the circumstances.
Thornton also seems like one of the strong candidates for a trade. He's got quite a bit of value and could bring in a difference-maker at the 3 without a lot of that "one that got away" worry that trading Tyreke would bring. But in the end I think we probably won't really be in contention for a playoff spot this year so we'll probably hold on to MT23 until a trade could really put us over the top.
Thornton also seems like one of the strong candidates for a trade. He's got quite a bit of value and could bring in a difference-maker at the 3 without a lot of that "one that got away" worry that trading Tyreke would bring. But in the end I think we probably won't really be in contention for a playoff spot this year so we'll probably hold on to MT23 until a trade could really put us over the top.
blackice
G-League
I see him as our second leading scorer, IF not our leading scorer. Marcus is valuable to us and I hope some of us don't forget how clutch he really is to us, yeah he has tunnel vision but I really don't see Keith bringing him off the bench, now...I hope I'm wrong but I don't see that happening.
jcassio
Starter
I think Marcus has the potential to be a great 6th man or a very good starting 2. But if he's to be our great 6th man, he has to put his mind around that, and the Kings have to find a way to give him enough minutes. We've got two good point guards, albeit undersized. So without an injury situation, Marcus shouldn't be getting many minutes at the 1. Reke should be getting 32-34 minutes at the 2 (and very few at the 3). So the math suggests Marcus will be left with 16-20 minutes/game. Not sure that he will embrace that, nor be recognized as a great 6th man with such few minutes. Of course, with an injury to Reke or one of the point guards, Marcus will get a full complement of NBA minutes.
I think it's a viable option to trade Marcus along with either Salmons or Hayes for a backup center with strong shot blocking and defensive skills. But if it doesn't work out for Reke this year, or in signing him after this year, it sure would have been nice to have Marcus on hand to take over the 2 spot.
I think it's a viable option to trade Marcus along with either Salmons or Hayes for a backup center with strong shot blocking and defensive skills. But if it doesn't work out for Reke this year, or in signing him after this year, it sure would have been nice to have Marcus on hand to take over the 2 spot.
Chupacabra
Starter
I think marcus is undervalued round these parts. I understand the minutes crunch in our backcourt and i think if anyone is on the outside looking in its brooks. The idea of trading thornton with the contract that he has is the type of rhetoric that is FROWNED UPON in this ESTABLISHMENT!
gunks
Hall of Famer
I picked the "becomes second option and leads to Reke trade" choice. Because our franchise is just stupid like that.
If the FO and Smart had any brains, they'd move Thornton to a 6th man role (not that the diva would accept that), which would balance out the starting 5 and the bench wonderfully. But when have GP/Smart done anything right?
Also, I really think the Magoofs want to ship Reke out so they dont have to pay him. If they let Thornton jack shots to the tune of an inefficient 22ppg, they can play the whole "we dont need Reke" card.
If the FO and Smart had any brains, they'd move Thornton to a 6th man role (not that the diva would accept that), which would balance out the starting 5 and the bench wonderfully. But when have GP/Smart done anything right?
Also, I really think the Magoofs want to ship Reke out so they dont have to pay him. If they let Thornton jack shots to the tune of an inefficient 22ppg, they can play the whole "we dont need Reke" card.
DesertFox
Starter
I'm torn on Thornton. If he plays like he did last year, he's just another bench scorer who can give you 15 in 25 off the bench, not much else. If he starts, look for an empty 20 points.
But that first half season season he played like a championship-level 3rd guy, a scorer who flashes some rebounding and assists. A great bench player or solid starter, like Jason Terry.
The best thing to do now is see if he can rediscover that Jason Terry-game off the bench, and then package him to get a difference maker at SF.
But that first half season season he played like a championship-level 3rd guy, a scorer who flashes some rebounding and assists. A great bench player or solid starter, like Jason Terry.
The best thing to do now is see if he can rediscover that Jason Terry-game off the bench, and then package him to get a difference maker at SF.
HereWeBoogie
Hall of Famer
i love thorton and think he should be an NBA starter and leading his team in scoring. but the way this team is now setup, i see his only roll being off the bench. unless Tyreke fails at the 2 position an gets traded
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I didn't respond to the poll, simply because I have no idea how this is going to play out. To a large part, it depends on what Tyreke brings this season. I believe the Kings have Tyreke penciled in as the starting SG. That of course means Thornton moves to the bench as the 6th man. A position I believe he can thrive at if he's willing to make the adjustment. Of course there's always the chance that Tyreke makes little or no improvement. In which case, I think the Kings are up against a hard decision. This is a contract year for Tyreke, and the Kings. Does Tyreke deserve a max contract? Would he settle for less than a max? Right now, all we have are questions.
If everything goes as plans, the end result will be that the Kings end up with a much improved bench. A good bench last season would have won several more games. But for the most part, the bench was terrible, especially the rebounding. A bench of either IT/Brooks, Thornton, Salmons, Robinson, Hayes (hopefully in shape), along with Outlaw, Fredette and Cisco, should be a vast improvement over last season.
The key to all of this is Tyreke Evans. If he shows up with a legit jumpshot, he can be a dominate player in this league. He also has the ability to be one of the best defensive SG's in the league. In short, he can be an impact player, and if so, deserving of that big payday. I hope the Maloofs are putting aside some money, because I think Tyreke is going to surprise the league.
If everything goes as plans, the end result will be that the Kings end up with a much improved bench. A good bench last season would have won several more games. But for the most part, the bench was terrible, especially the rebounding. A bench of either IT/Brooks, Thornton, Salmons, Robinson, Hayes (hopefully in shape), along with Outlaw, Fredette and Cisco, should be a vast improvement over last season.
The key to all of this is Tyreke Evans. If he shows up with a legit jumpshot, he can be a dominate player in this league. He also has the ability to be one of the best defensive SG's in the league. In short, he can be an impact player, and if so, deserving of that big payday. I hope the Maloofs are putting aside some money, because I think Tyreke is going to surprise the league.
Chupacabra
Starter
Trade the best non rookie contract that we have, one of our top 3 best players, for some small forward defensive powerhouse that doesnt exist? If anyone gets packaged up it should be brooks and another one of our bench players. I dont know. We would be VERY hard pressed to come out on top of a deal that involves trading thornton for a role playing defensive small forward.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
6th man or not, you're best 3 players have to be able to play together and the shots have to come from somewhere. Thornton has never been really good in a force feed set up. Him jacking up garbage all day just isn't his style and that's a good thing. I don't know what Tyreke's role is going to be moving forward but if it's anything like the last two years move him to a team that can use his talents if this team can't win and keep the one true position bargain player you have. Versatility is good, but being a true position player on a cheap deal can be even better.
As for how it's going to play out? I don't know, I don't think anyone does, not even coach Smart. This is a team full of players who want to dribble the ball all day. This will be Geoff Petries mess to clean if it's a repeat of last year.
Say what? You and I must have been watching different Thorntons.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Mac beat me to it...But huh?!?!
Kingster
Hall of Famer
I agree that Thornton's future is in Tyreke's hands. If Tyreke hasn't made progress in his outside shooting, it seems nearly impossible to trade Thornton. Also, with no outside shooting from Tyreke, Thornton would have to get a lot of minutes from Smart in that situation. But if Tyreke turns the corner, then he's going to demand big minutes with his play and Thornton goes to the corner. I don't have any idea which way it's going to go.
Hadlowe
Starter
See, I don't think Thornton is a diva at all. He likes to do one thing, score the basketball. If he believes that he is the first option to shoot when he comes off the bench, I think he would be pleased as peaches to play sixth man minutes and put up 18 shots a night in 26 minutes of play.
I voted for a trade more as a wish than a reality. I would rather see Tyreke develop at the two and I think Thornton, despite his relative offensive value, is an impediment there. And he is a liability on defense. Package him and one of our bench bigs for a rotation-worthy three and our lineup suddenly becomes coherent. If that bench big is Hayes, we eliminate small-ball lineups almost entirely.
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SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Must have. There are plenty of examples of players that jack it up at a simple glance, if you think Thornton is one of those, you really need to look around more. Compared to many he rarely takes head scratchingly bad shots. And I'm saying that he isn't best in that setting. He's more the type that gets his shots up in spurts that just come naturally through the course of a game. Asking him to manufacture points in limited minutes is not to his strengths and when he's been put in that position in the past, it's my point exactly that he's not going to look as good.
The only reason why he "rarely" jacks shots up is because he doesn't have the ball in his hands all the time. A good 50% of all of IT's feeds are to Cousins. There's rarely a time when Thornton gets the ball in his hands that he doesn't take a shot.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And what you described is a player that fits on this team. In a glass half full scenario you just described a player that doesn't command the ball at all times. His ability to cut off the ball is much needed and he can play off of Cousins without the ball, that's major moving forward. Of course when he gets the ball you want him to shoot, it's more often than not because that was the desired outcome. The point is Thornton rarely pounds the ball into oblivion. What he is is a shooting guard that looks to get an open shot with or without the ball. Can't name more than one person on this team that in theory should be getting more shot attempts on this than Thornton
Those are also reasons why he probably struggles when put in a position to be that "spark" player off the bench. He's more comfortable being a part of the offense, not taking it over as soon as he steps on the floor. We might see if he can do it, but I think my point is becoming clearer by the sentence.
It's impossible to pound a ball into oblivion if you just jack up a shot everytime you touch the ball. Now here's the thing, Thornton is a pure scorer, and so you don't mind him taking a lot of shots, even bad ones, because he's shown he can make them. The only reason why you think he only scores as part of the offense is because most of the plays go through DMC and IT, and as a result he doesn't get that many touches. How can you say he's not the type who wants to create for himself and take over the offense, when that's what he does half the time in the 4th quarter? How many times have we simply gone to Thornton and let him go to work?
bajaden
Hall of Famer
A small percentage of Thorntons shots come off of offensive rebounds, and sometimes defensive rebounds where he takes the ball end to end. He's averaged 4.2 rebounds a game in the two years he's been here, which is very good from the guard position.. So he's not just a one trick pony. However, as pointed out, he has a scorers mentality, which would be fine if he can up his effeciency. It all comes down to more disclipine in shot selection. There's no reason he can't add at least one more assist a game to his stat sheet if he can expand his tunnel vision. There are many times he passes up an open man and drives into traffic.
To be fair, Thornton is still young and learning the game. He has his contract, so he has nothing to prove to anyone. If he can accept a role off the bench, and, have that role defined by Smart (hopefully), he can be a difference maker. Similar to Terry when he was with Dallas. He does have a tendecy to be a chucker at times. If he can correct that, his game will move up a couple of notches.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
A 15 to 17 shot per game player, does not fall under the "jack it up" everytime category, not when he is probably your best scorer. The point is he doesn't do that in every moment of the game, he doesn't deviate often from the offense like others on this very team have a tendency to.
Now you're arguing him taking over in the 4th quarter of games as a negative? This is really starting to sound as if you have some sort of ulterior motive here. You're arguing points that go in the favor of hanging to player like Thornton, not the opposite.
DesertFox
Starter
Thornton likes to shoot, but I wouldn't say he's a chucker. He was 30th in FGA/min last year, between Duncan and Granger, players who aren't totally out of Thornton's class in terms of scoring. (Cuz finished 6th)
My problem with him is that he's a good enough athlete and ball handler to be making a lot more plays for others, which he showed signs of his first year with the team. I was hoping for an improvement on that, not a regression.
My problem with him is that he's a good enough athlete and ball handler to be making a lot more plays for others, which he showed signs of his first year with the team. I was hoping for an improvement on that, not a regression.
You were the one who said that "He's more comfortable being a part of the offense, not taking it over as soon as he steps on the floor" and "Asking him to manufacture points in limited minutes is not to his strengths". How do those two statements support the fact that we give him the ball in the 4th quarter to take over? The whole point is that as a bench player he would have free reign offensively, something that you don't think he would excel in.
I agree.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Because usually he's been playing most of the game and has been worked into it at that point. A player being able to heat up in crunch time and being asked to manufacture points in the middle of quarters in limited minutes is a completely different thing. He's a player that seems to rely on that rhythmic aspect of the game. If the whole point revolves around him getting free reign offensively off the bench that would assume most likely without other shot munchers there to get in his way. When would he do that exactly and for how long? The 5-10 minutes that Reke/Cousins aren't on the floor? Yeah, that's for Bobby Jackson, not Marcus Thornton if history tells us anything.
Maybe he could develop into that type of player but I think the one he is now is just fine for any team looking for a TRUE shooting guard.
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