Kevin Martin: Does he have potential to be great?

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
We've annointed every even modestly promising rookie the Kings have had in the last decade as "a future All-Star". But that's really really rarified air, and if things don't break right for Kevin there is just as big (actually bigger) a chance we don't even pick up his 4th year (basically if we bring in a full time FA OG as a starter, bring back Bobby/Mo etc. he's back to 12th man duty). He's in a very delicate position, and while he's an intriguing player, he didn't exactly make the argument in Year 1 for us to be clearing out room for him in the rotation.

He really needs to take a big step forward this summer, and he needs to have taken that step by the time camp comes around + must really impress at that time (assuming he's with us, although from his perspective wherever he ends up). If he starts slow, gets hurt, or is anything but very impressive in camp, that could almost be it, tell the story for him with us. Be very tough for him to unseat someone midseason after a slow start, and as a late round small school pick, there isn't that built in assumption that he just HAS to be given shot after shot. Guys picked where he is at succeed maybe 1 out of 5, and every year tons of them get dropped from the league and forgotten about. Could easily get buried deep, and then have a hell of a time ever recovering unless somebody in front of him gets hurt. And that could very well lead to us not picking up his 4th year and him just sort of dropping off the map. Basically he hasn't established himself in the league yet, and barring either a rebuilding plan or some massive trades this summer for superstars leaving the OG spot in his hands, the next 6 months or so could be the most critical ones of his entire career (possibly short career if he is unable to step up).
 
#32
VF21 said:
If you guys look at Doug Christie when he was Kevin's age, you'll see their physiques are very similar. Kevin's family has said more than once that it's genetic. The whole family tends to be slender.
I was talking to Pedja's family and they told me that they dont develop post up games in their family until about 28-29 so watch out NBA!!
 
#35
Fillmoe said:
Kevin Martin can be a Tayshaun Prince type player with good coaching
I tend to agree with this quote...

He can flourish in this offense as long as he can learn to play with this type of offense. I would like to see him get some minutes next year with the starting unit to see what he can do. Of course I would not want to see him as the focal point of the offense.
 
#36
He has to get by mo evans on the depth chart before we see him play much ,and I don't see that happening.Evans is already a good defender , Martin is not . They are both athletic , and both have a flawed outside shots.


We've annointed every even modestly promising rookie the Kings have had in the last
decade as "a future All-Star".-Bricklayer

I find myself guilty of that, but I think Martin is probably the lesser of those players
 
#37
Excuse me? We aren't 'annointing' anyone. I never said Kevin was destined to be the next Jordan, KG, Kobe, etc. Never said he was destined to be an 'all star' even (for whatever the hell that's worth these days;) ) Maybe we are quibbling over semantics here, when I think of his potential and think he has the capacity to be 'great' I am thinking of great as in Doug Christie style great. Maybe a player who is never mentioned, even in the 'all star' hullabaloo, but who contributes mightily, who gives his all and plays with his heart. A player who is committed to his team mates and his team above self. I do know that he possesses this type of attitude, this type of drive. Mike Bibby is not an all star, yet he has played 'great' for us. Bobby Jackson, same thing.

Is he green, and is his NBA game raw? Um, hello, he's a 22 year old rookie from a SMALL town who did his best to try to 'fit in' and not step on any of the vets toes, to do what he thought he was here (last year) to do, learn.

Gerald had freak athleticism, but Gerald didn't like to put in 'extra' work. This kid has some darn fine athleticism himself AND puts in the extra work of his own accord. Goes to his High school gym when visiting family, on what is SUPPOSED to be a 'break', because he WANTS to get better.
Mock if you want, doubt if you want, but he is used to that, in fact, that motivates him. He could have switched schools to bigger Ohio State, as was suggested to him to get exposure for the NBA. "You'll never be drafted if you don't" he was told. He remained loyal to his team and coach instead, and what do you know, he was drafted anyway. Those bigger schools didn't want to give him a scholarship his Freshman year, not until they saw what he was doing for Western Carolina. THEN they wanted him. He could have deserted the people who gave him a chance (Western Carolina) to selfishly (or even just self-preservedly) further his chances at the NBA, but he didn't. "I'm going to make it anyway' was his attitude, and he did.

This kid has 'it'. Maybe you haven't seen enough of him to see 'it', but you will. Mark it down. I said it first, in fact, I said it before we drafted him, and believe it even more firmly now.
 
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J

JohnGalt

Guest
#38
Kevin Martin is an unlikely candidate to ever even start in the NBA, much less be a star. I cannot believe this thread is happening. Kevin Martin has not demonstrated that he's better than Eddie House. Or Mo Evans. Or .. or .. anybody.

What did he do to impress everyone so much? A dunk here and there in garbage time?

I truly don't understand this thread. The only reason Kevin Martin made the squad at all is that the rules say you MUST keep your first round draft picks. That's it.

Kevin Martin has the potential to tell his buddies in the cubicle next to his that he used to be in the NBA.
 
#39
JohnGalt said:
Kevin Martin is an unlikely candidate to ever even start in the NBA, much less be a star. I cannot believe this thread is happening.
Obviously it's happening because many folks here actually looked and saw things that you didn't see.

Oh, and just in case you think every player that "makes it" in the NBA comes in with a rookie splash and instant stardom tags attached, here are a few links for you to peruse:

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jermaine_oneal/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tracy_mcgrady/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/kobe_bryant/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ben_wallace/index.html

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/bobby_simmons/index.html


I don't project Kevin to be the next Kobe or McGrady or anyone else. However, I do recognize that different players will develop at different times, and if they have the skills and desire, both of which I believe Kevin has, they will "make it".
 
#40
Kevin Martin has the potential to tell his buddies in the cubicle next to his that he used to be in the NBA.
So basically, even if he never plays another game, he still has way cooler stories to tell than we do? Now I'm jealous too.
 
#41
Bricklayer said:
Guys picked where he is at succeed maybe 1 out of 5, and every year tons of them get dropped from the league and forgotten about. ).
This inspired me to find out...

What happens to #26 Draft Picks?

1983- Leroy Combs- Out of the league in a year
1984- Victor Fleming- Can't find much information, may never have played
1985- Bill Martin- Played 84 games in 3-year career
1986- Greg Dreiling- Averaged 2.1 PPG in 474 games during 10-year career
1987- Steve Alford- Played 169 games in 4-year career
1988- Rolando Ferreira- Out of the league in a year
1989- Vlade Divac- Unquestionably the most successful of the bunch!
1990- Lance Blanks- Played 142 games in 3-year career
1991- Mark Randall- Played 127 games in 4-year career
1992- Dave Johnson- Played 59 games in 2-year career
1993- Geert Hammink- Played 27 minutes in 3-year career
1994- Charlie Ward- Has had a very nice career, mostly with the Knicks
1995- Sherrell Ford- Out of the league in a year
1996- Jerome Williams- Journeyman, played 79 games last year, 4.5 PPG
1997- Charles Smith- Played 120 games in 4-year career
1998- Sam Jacobson- Played 68 games in 3-year career
1999- Vonteego Cummings- Played 199 games in 3-year career
2000- Mamadou N'diaye- Has played in 69 games in 5 years
2001- Samuel Dalembert- Doing quite well starting for Philly
2002- John Salmons- Played 58 games last year, 4.1 PPG
2003- Ndudi Ebi- Has played 86 minutes in 2 years
2004- Kevin Martin- Played 45 games last year, 2.9 PPG

Of the 19 picks from 1983-2001, 4 were immediate busts, 10 were busts within 5 years, 3 became successful journeymen, one became an All-Star, and one is currently a rising star.

At least Kevin's already avoided the first-year flameout! Hopefully we'll see him on the court more next year!
~~
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#42
JohnGalt said:
Kevin Martin is an unlikely candidate to ever even start in the NBA, much less be a star. I cannot believe this thread is happening. Kevin Martin has not demonstrated that he's better than Eddie House. Or Mo Evans. Or .. or .. anybody.

What did he do to impress everyone so much? A dunk here and there in garbage time?

I truly don't understand this thread. The only reason Kevin Martin made the squad at all is that the rules say you MUST keep your first round draft picks. That's it.

Kevin Martin has the potential to tell his buddies in the cubicle next to his that he used to be in the NBA.
If you can't understand the thread, then perhaps you should simply move on to the next one.

:rolleyes:
 
J

JohnGalt

Guest
#43
Is it against the rules here to make a sarcastic remark in order to make a point?

Or is only if you agree with the original poster's premise that you are allowed to weigh in?
 
A

AriesMar27

Guest
#44
JohnGalt said:
Is it against the rules here to make a sarcastic remark in order to make a point?

Or is only if you agree with the original poster's premise that you are allowed to weigh in?
thats how it is everywhere, you cant have an opinion unless it is positive or you are positive that everyone will agree....
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#45
AriesMar27 said:
thats how it is everywhere, you cant have an opinion unless it is positive or you are positive that everyone will agree....
Oh please. That argument is specious at best and ludicrous on its face.

Generally, people who waste time complaining about the tone/tenor of a board generally don't contribute that much to it.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#46
JohnGalt said:
Is it against the rules here to make a sarcastic remark in order to make a point?

Or is only if you agree with the original poster's premise that you are allowed to weigh in?
For the record, you're the one who made the comments:

I cannot believe this thread is happening...
and...

I truly don't understand this thread.
It is blatantly obvious that you have no interest at all in Kevin and don't think he's worth anything. Fine, that is your opinion and you're entitled to it. What you're not entitled to do is decide that everyone else shouldn't discuss it...
 
J

JohnGalt

Guest
#47
all right all right..

I don't think Kevin has demonstrated that he's a special athlete yet. I think it's naive to consider the possiblity of a guy becoming great, who still has splinters in his behind because he's the #12 guy on a 12 man roster.

For the record I DO believe this thread is happening and I truly DO understand this thread.

By "I don't believe it" I thought I was kind of sort of using a colloquialism that means sort of like "Oy Vey"....

Also for the record, I would like to say that I completely and wholeheartedly support the constitutional right, nay greater still the FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT of people to believe that Kevin Martin will develop into a "great" ballplayer, and to express that opinion on chat boards. To the people who think a 700 win coach is an idiot keeping Kevin Martin's light hidden under a bushel... I say... rock on - keep on thinking up ideas!!

I will try to be more precise in my language going forward to avoid confusion as to what exactly I believe and understand.

Best regards,

Positive John

GO KINGS!!!!!!!!!
 
#48
I don't think Kevin has demonstrated that he's a special athlete yet. I think it's naive to consider the possiblity of a guy becoming great, who still has splinters in his behind because he's the #12 guy on a 12 man roster.
So, you don't think the kid has shown above average athleticism? That's interesting. You also believe that every player that ends up having a succesful career never spent his rookie season on the end of someones bench, and if they do, they are forever doomed to never improve. Also interesting, and somewhat niave.
 
#49
As the title of the thread indicates, this was merely a discussion of Kevin's "potential", not to designate him the next MJ. Lots of folks saw glimpses of things they they really liked and these were brought out by naming specifics in his game that he displayed over the course of the season. That's all this is.

To the naysayer on this topic, you offered no refutation of these specifics but merely expressed that you were incredulous of this thread, mixed in with weak sarcastic remarks. I suspect that you didn't refute the specifics of the discussion because you didn't watch Kevin closely enough this season to be able to do that.
 
J

JohnGalt

Guest
#51
hmmph. No biggie.

Has Kevin shown extraordinary athleticism. No. That's where my incredulity comes in. He can't carry Mo Evans' jock. He has not done anything very special - that's all. jmho.

Can a guy spend his rookie year on the bench and end up being a significant NBA player. Sure.

Do I trust Adelman and Petrie's talent judging skills enough that they would have given Martin real minutes in this lost season if they saw a realistic upside to the kid? Yes.

I'm sorry I said things against the tide in this thread. I hope Kevin proves me wrong.

Go Kings!

Positive John.
 
#52
Has Kevin shown extraordinary athleticism. No. That's where my incredulity comes in. He can't carry Mo Evans' jock
I've carefully avoided mention of Mo in this thread, as I feel it is not neccesary to build one guy up by tearing another down, as you just did. Mo has some incredible athleticism himself. He's a 'power dunker' who finishes with flash, he's worked hard to get to where he is. He has nothing to do with how athletic Kevin himself is. I have no idea how you could have watched Kevin and NOT seen that the kid can fly from a stand-still to far above the rim (see the alley oop thrown in one of the last games in the season, which came from a dead stand still) I'm incredulous that you don't see the athleticism.

Do I trust Adelman and Petrie's talent judging skills enough that they would have given Martin real minutes in this lost season if they saw a realistic upside to the kid?
Petrie picked him, and I suppose you are basing his potential minutes played on Adelman's proclivity for playing rookies as many minutes as possible, right?;)
 
F

Fillmoe

Guest
#53
he has alot of potential... if you dont believe me watch the last lakers game at home! he had alot of good plays.... a nice steal that ended with a dunk and on one play he did a nice fake from the corner three spot and got his defender in the air and than side stepped him for an easy dunk.......
 
J

JohnGalt

Guest
#54
I'm not trying to build one guy up by tearing another down or vice versa. I'm trying to suggest some context for evaluating Kevin Martin. When I said "can't carry his jock" I meant to say "hasn't demonstrated himself to be as effective a basketball player".

Will you give me that Evans can out-jump and out-defend Martin?

If Evans can't start in the NBA, how will Martin?

Only time will tell and I swear, all sarcasm aside, that I'm rooting for Kevin Martin! Promise. But I will work hard to contain my enthusiasm so I don't risk getting disappointed if he doesn't pan out.

Positive John
 

Entity

Hall of Famer
#55
I love Mo and Kevin. Sure Mo jump out of the building but, in the few min i saw of kev this year i saw that he can also play defense like Mo. He to can jump very nicely and they both have about the same shooting range. Here is the kicker. Kevin showed me that he could create better than Mo and he can pass the ball a little better. 1 more year of bench life for Kevin and he will be ready. He needs 10 min a game and 2 more summer leagues to be better than doug in his prime.
 
#56
Mo is a couple years older and has the added advantage of having played over seas competitively in addition to the 4 years he spent at college. If you were to go by Mo's original stint in the NBA (with the TPups) you would have to say it was near impossible to figure on him getting the type of playing time, or developing into the player his now, wouldn't you?
 
#57
Special K has some good hops. If you cant see that youve must not have watched many games he was in. I can think of atleast 15 times he went to catch an alley-oop where he got plenty of air. (Of course, I wont mention the 7 times he blew it or his teamates blew it by thinking he could jump out of the gym or SK just fumbled the ball) He doesn't have Mo's hops but hes pretty darn close.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
#60
JohnGalt said:
Can a guy spend his rookie year on the bench and end up being a significant NBA player. Sure.

Do I trust Adelman and Petrie's talent judging skills enough that they would have given Martin real minutes in this lost season if they saw a realistic upside to the kid? Yes.
Does the name Gerald Wallace mean anything to you? Mo Evans hardly played his rookie season in Minnesota (back when they were a first round playoff team). And besides, it was never really a 'lost season'. The starters were playing even more minutes at the end of the season because the team was contending for a playoff spot. That means even less garbage minutes for the rook. And with proven NBA players two deep at every position, there was no need for Adelman to look to a rookie. It's really only a 'rebuilding year' if you know you're not going to make the playoffs (like Portland for example).

I'd like to see him play more because sitting on the bench doesn't help him get better. Especially when there aren't that many practices throughout the course of the season. And with all the injuries this team suffered, there were even less meaningful practices than usual. I think he'll improve a lot over the summer when he'll have the opportunity to really work with the guys on the team and find a comfort level playing with them and also work with the coaching staff and generate some confidence in them.

Realistically speaking, Kevin Martin is a late first round draft pick. If he develops into a very good backup SG, that would make him a succesful draft pick. With Mo you're talking about a guy who's been logging major minutes on a competitive professional basketball team for two years. Surely we can give Kevin an opportunity to do the same. Every player in the league came in through the draft so if you're not developing your own talent, you're slipping behind. I think it's too early to assess Kevin's outlook, but he has the potential to be a quality player if given the time to develop.