Joe Johnson

[bajaden]

I'm not sure why we were talking about Gay. If you step back and look at the team there are a couple of glaring holes that need repairing. One at the center positon and the other at the SG position. Gay doesn't address either of those problems. Its not a question of whether Gay is better than what we have already, or whether I would like to have him on our team. Its a matter of priority. Why spend money on a player that plays a position that you already have filled by two potentially solid players. There's even the possiblility that one of them could eventually be better than Gay.

That aside. If we were to draft Cousins, then I might be inclined to go after Johnson. I guess some of us see a different player than others. Johnson is currently 28 years old, and will turn 29 in july. He's a good ballhandler and passer. He's averaged around 5 assists a game for the last 4 years. He has an assist to turnover ratio of 2 to 1. He's a good shooter. And when not asked to carry the offense, which he was in Atlanta, he's an even better shooter. His last year with the Suns he only took 14 shots a game. With Atlanta he's up around 18 shots a game. With the Suns he wasn't the number 1 option. With Atlanta he is. If he were with the Kings, he wouldn't have to be the number 1 option. And if you had a Cousins in the middle, he might not even be the number 2 option.

Its the money thats the problem and the length of contract. As Larry David said, and it has merit. Now, may not be the time to be investing a lot of money in a player, when the market is about to be reset.

 

[Kingster]

Don't want him. Didn't show in the playoffs. Absolutely terrible. Epitomized the no heart, no brains crowd in Atlanta. The only guys I want from Atlanta are Horford and Teague (who might still be a blank slate). Very wishfully thinking, Atlanta completely blows up their team and Horford end up in Sacto.

 

[bajaden]

Don't want him. Didn't show in the playoffs. Absolutely terrible. Epitomized the no heart, no brains crowd in Atlanta. The only guys I want from Atlanta are Horford and Teague (who might still be a blank slate). Very wishfully thinking, Atlanta completely blows up their team and Horford end up in Sacto.

I love Horford. And I think he would put up better numbers from the PF position. I wasn't that excited about Teague coming out of college. And he hasn't done anything this past season to make me change my mind. He didn't shoot the ball well at all. That said, its too early to draw any conclusions about him. He still has a lot of time to develop. However, I'm not exactly lusting after him.

Interesting that your willing to just throw away Johnsons entire career record simply because he had a bad playoff series. I do think Orlando had something to do with that.

 

[Sac.1989]

Shades of hedo to toronto if we sign Johnson i feel. Overpaying for a position we potentially already have covered with beno and garcia - 15ppg

 

[Larry David]

Again, this debate is purely academic because Joe Johnson isn’t coming here … but for everybody driving the “Joe Johnson isn’t good enough bus” please realize, that he’s probably “too good” to come to Sacramento. Despite our love for the team, you have to acknowledge many NBA players view our fine city the same way you think about the Milwaukee Bucks. It’s just not a desired destination for most NBA players. The best player to sign here as a free agent is Vlade. He didn’t have many teams pursuing him that summer and we weren’t his first choice. He would have rather been a Clipper, but the Kings “over paid” (viewed that way at the time, but it wasn’t. Moreover, many fans were disappointed we didn’t sign Ike Austin instead … score one for Petrie.) During the glory years, the Kings were able to resign players obtained via trade … but for the most part they dramatically overpaid to keep them here and the system is geared to give players every incentive to stay. That is the track record. You have to acknowledge it.

As you know, I’m not advocating overpaying simple due to that fact … but I realistically … you have to cross everybody “north or above” of Joe Johnson of the list. This point does not apply to Brick’s point that they money could be better spent … on the frontcourt or otherwise. Or mean that Joe is a smart investment. But if you are simply advocating we should hold our money until we can sign a free agent better than Joe Johnson, I don’t think your being realistic about how NBA players view Sacramento. To put it another way, you are the “4” sitting at the bar turning down “7s,” because you are waiting for a “9” or a “10.” If that’s your logic, it might be time to look in the mirror.

 

[Kingster]

I love Horford. And I think he would put up better numbers from the PF position. I wasn't that excited about Teague coming out of college. And he hasn't done anything this past season to make me change my mind. He didn't shoot the ball well at all. That said, its too early to draw any conclusions about him. He still has a lot of time to develop. However, I'm not exactly lusting after him.

Interesting that your willing to just throw away Johnsons entire career record simply because he had a bad playoff series. I do think Orlando had something to do with that.

It's not just the series. He's a poor passer, a one-on-one player, so-so defensively. He definitely does not make other players better around him. And I don't think his lack of competitiveness in the Orlando series should be discounted. If Petrie is looking for competitors, he should be looking someplace else. I think he'd be a very poor fit for the Kings.

Regarding Teague, Atlanta is the worst possible place he could have gone. Not exactly filled with great role models, if you ask me. When I've seen him play, I'm still impressed by his exceptional quickness. If you could get him on the cheap, I'd definitely give him a shot.

 

[Sarunas]

I think JJ is a fantastic player, but not what we need here, especially if we land Wall or Turner in this draft. He is fast approaching 30, and by the time we realistically become playoff contenders, he may be past his "prime"

 

[Chupacabra]

Again, i think we have enough young talent and potential on the perimeter to keep us from spending a bunch of money on a perimeter player. Our interior play is clearly lacking in certain areas and it would be wise for the Kings to address that need as much as possible. If im Geoff Petrie im trying to stock pile as many BIG bodies as i can. Round up a bunch of "scrub" bigmen, draft a bigman, and place the best 2-3 out of the group on the roster. As much as I like Brockman, I dont see a spot for him on the team if the FO does their job this summer.

 

[Chupacabra]

I'd add David Lee to this list as well. He's going to get big money somewhere, and in turn hamstring that team to mediocrity. If we don't make a big splash in free agency this summer, I'm okay with that. We can hang on to our cap space until next summer if we want to. With the upcoming new CBA, and all the money saved up by teams hoping for Lebron/Bosh/Wade, it's definitely the perfect storm for over inflated contracts.

I like the way you think. Ive thought this also. Its not a necessity to spend a bunch of money THIS summer. This team might be better served to hold out a year or so on a big purchase.

 

[bajaden]

It's not just the series. He's a poor passer, a one-on-one player, so-so defensively. He definitely does not make other players better around him. And I don't think his lack of competitiveness in the Orlando series should be discounted. If Petrie is looking for competitors, he should be looking someplace else. I think he'd be a very poor fit for the Kings.

Regarding Teague, Atlanta is the worst possible place he could have gone. Not exactly filled with great role models, if you ask me. When I've seen him play, I'm still impressed by his exceptional quickness. If you could get him on the cheap, I'd definitely give him a shot.

Look, I'm not advocating that we go and spend a ton of money on Johnson. I do think he would be a good fit next to Tyreke. But I never really gave it serious thought. And I agreed with Larry David's summery of why it might not be wise to spend big bucks now, when salaries may go down in a year from now.

Thats a different issure than whether Johnson is talented or not. If you don't think Johnson is a good passer, then I seriously question how much you've seen him play over the years. He's averaged around 5 assists a game throughout his career, and has a assist to turnover ratio of 2 to 1. He's one of the better passing SG's in the league. So I'm not sure were talking about the same player..

 

[NewArena]

over 30, too expensive, was just a complete no show in the playoffs. I have to pass...

this. +1000....

 

[Uncia03]

JJ's performance in this year's playoffs was absolutely dreadful. I love watching the Hawks play, but really, other than their game 6 against the Bucks, they didn't look like the explosive, fun team I've come to enjoy.

After two games against Orlando, it was clear the Hawks were not going to play against the Magic and I felt fairly certain that Johnson would remain a Hawk. But since he wasn't able to get it going for the last two games, coupled with his comments about the fans, I would be less surprised if he ends up with another team next year.

He was all team 3rd NBA, so he's an elite player, but he hurt his stock with this playoff performance, so I'd imagine that he might have more resistance to getting the max than he was prior to the play-offs. I still think there is a good possibility that someone will end up paying top dollar for him.

The Bulls have been mentioned, and as I don't see LBJ/Wade/Bosh ending up as a Knick, I think that there is a possibility he could wind up in New York.
A lot of it has to come down to his personal balance of getting his last pay-day vs. ending up on a team which has a chance to win a title. Obviously the Bulls would be a far better choice if he wants to try to land on a competitive team.

As far as our team goes....

I like Johnson and he's got the size, handles, and shooting which would pair up very well with Tyreke. In fact I think it's a great fit.
The problem is that I don't think you can offer him the Max, but then expect him to defer to Tyreke. If Tyreke was 25 and All NBA himself, then I think it could work, but Tyreke has not cemented himself in the minds of the NBA as an elite player just yet.

So since he would only come to Sacramento if we offered him a near-max contract, I just don't see it happening, as much as I'd like the pairing from a basketball perspective.

All this is actually predicated that we land Cousins in the draft. I wouldn't go after Johnson if we ended up with Turner, Wall, or Favors. But if we started next year with the additions of Cousins and Johnson that would have to be considered very impressive, even if it cost this team a lot to make it happen.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I whole heartedly agree that it’s a risky proposition to put that much money and shots into one backcourt. It worked for the Pistons, but normally it isn’t a recipe for success. Too many jumpers and a frustrated frontcourt. However, I think there is a distinct difference between Kevin and Johnson. Kevin is essentially Reggie Miller-ish, if you want Kevin to get his points you are going to need to structure the offense around him, run him off screens and backdoor cuts, ect. Lots of waiting around to see if something develops for him. Makes sense for a #1 guy, not so much for a #2. Also, not so great if your best player is ready and able to attack and waiting for the shot clock to get down to 8 only makes things harder on him. Thus, the fundamental styles of Tyreke and Kevin were mismatched. Whereas, Johnson is a much more traditional two – who can shoot, get his own shots, and help Tyreke run the offense.

As for waiting for the next playmaking SG like Doug, I’m fine with that … except they are pretty rare and they often cannot shoot. Really, you are talking about a 6’5’’ player (otherwise, he’s just a point) who has the body of a two, but the playmaking abilities, court vision, and unselfishness of a point. Even going back 10 years ago, that doesn’t come along very often. And it’s even rarer now. 10-15 year ago, teams would have put Westbrook and Tyreke into the shooting guard box, because that’s what they looked like. Because they are a premium position, teams will now try to make players point guards until they prove otherwise. So you are even less likely to find that guy now. To me, you are talking about DC and Larry Hughes .. and those guys are often poor shooters . Best case right now, is Mayo. After that, Delonte West? Heck, Beno might be 3rd. I’m just not sure Beno can start on a 50 win team. Can you come up with 7-8 quality combo guards (who are PGs built like SGs.)? I’m having a hard time.

Honestly, I think Cisco has a lot of the makings of a perfect pairing with Tyreke. It's too bad that he was hurt all last season and didn't get a real good chance to see if the pair would work. On paper, it looks promising: 6-7, with good enough passing/ball handling abilities for the Kings to play him at point every now and then; decent defense and shooting. Get a consistent shot, and we're pretty much there.

A little wishful thinking? Perhaps, but at the very least I'm content with the Beno/Cisco tandem next to Tryeke (not enough minutes for anyone else to get time in the backcourt) barring a top 2 pick or a no-brainer trade moving forward.

 

[Uncia03]

Honestly, I think Cisco has a lot of the makings of a perfect pairing with Tyreke. It's too bad that he was hurt all last season and didn't get a real good chance to see if the pair would work. On paper, it looks promising: 6-7, with good enough passing/ball handling abilities for the Kings to play him at point every now and then; decent defense and shooting. Get a consistent shot, and we're pretty much there.

A little wishful thinking? Perhaps, but at the very least I'm content with the Beno/Cisco tandem next to Tryeke (not enough minutes for anyone else to get time in the backcourt) barring a top 2 pick or a no-brainer trade moving forward.

I agree completely.

I know that Cisco is a great 6th man, but with what we have in Tyreke he could be a fantastic compliment as the starting 2 guard.

I think the major concern is going to be his wrist and whether or not it will heal completely and whether or not he'll be able to move past this injury. But if he can become the knock-down 3-pt shooter that he showed glimpses of two years ago, combined with his tenacity, size, ball-handling, and defense, his game partners very well with Tyrekes.

Unless we draft Turner, I'd like to see Cisco start out the season as the starting 2 guard and bring Beno off the bench. I think that the pair deserves at least 20-30 games to see if it can become a solid backcourt.

But ultimately I think it comes back to his wrist and whether he'll recover physically and mentally to become the shooter that he'd need to be to make it all work.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I agree completely.

I know that Cisco is a great 6th man, but with what we have in Tyreke he could be a fantastic compliment as the starting 2 guard.

I think the major concern is going to be his wrist and whether or not it will heal completely and whether or not he'll be able to move past this injury. But if he can become the knock-down 3-pt shooter that he showed glimpses of two years ago, combined with his tenacity, size, ball-handling, and defense, his game partners very well with Tyrekes.

Unless we draft Turner, I'd like to see Cisco start out the season as the starting 2 guard and bring Beno off the bench. I think that the pair deserves at least 20-30 games to see if it can become a solid backcourt.

But ultimately I think it comes back to his wrist and whether he'll recover physically and mentally to become the shooter that he'd need to be to make it all work.

I didn't know the wrist was that bad. Are there rumblings out there that he may not ever recover 100%? I don't remember hearing that.

 

[Kingster]

Look, I'm not advocating that we go and spend a ton of money on Johnson. I do think he would be a good fit next to Tyreke. But I never really gave it serious thought. And I agreed with Larry David's summery of why it might not be wise to spend big bucks now, when salaries may go down in a year from now.

Thats a different issure than whether Johnson is talented or not. If you don't think Johnson is a good passer, then I seriously question how much you've seen him play over the years. He's averaged around 5 assists a game throughout his career, and has a assist to turnover ratio of 2 to 1. He's one of the better passing SG's in the league. So I'm not sure were talking about the same player..

The age thing is a deal killer. Salary structure is second. Then his adaptability to this team is third. It's really hard to come up with reasons for why he would be good for the Kings.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Johnson is a horrible fit for this team. Stay clear of him.

 

[Larry David]

Honestly, I think Cisco has a lot of the makings of a perfect pairing with Tyreke. It's too bad that he was hurt all last season and didn't get a real good chance to see if the pair would work. On paper, it looks promising: 6-7, with good enough passing/ball handling abilities for the Kings to play him at point every now and then; decent defense and shooting. Get a consistent shot, and we're pretty much there.

A little wishful thinking? Perhaps, but at the very least I'm content with the Beno/Cisco tandem next to Tryeke (not enough minutes for anyone else to get time in the backcourt) barring a top 2 pick or a no-brainer trade moving forward.

I agree with Cisco being they type of combo guard we need. That is a great point. I don't love Cisco as a starter, but if he's your 5th best guy ... I'm good with that.

But if you are going to do that, then the Kings probably need to consider getting a great 3. (And like many, I want to fill that spot cheap with what we have.) Between the 2 and 3, there needs to be a star player. Probably an All-Star, at least somebody you can debate making the team.

Basically, you can't fill both the 2 and the 3 on the cheap.

You've got Reke. Landry is a nice player, but he's somewhere between Milsap and West. He's solid, but he's not the 2nd star. Unless we land the 2nd coming of Howard or Shaq, you are hoping for somewhere between a good center and decent (if you are waiting for a franchise center that can score 20 a night, that might take a while.) I think even Baja would say Cousins looks a lot more like Jefferon than Ewing or Shaq. That gets you a long way, that don't resolve what I'm talking about.

If you aren't considering drafting or paying for another really good player in the backcourt - then you are: (1) waiting on Green or Caspi to be an all star; (2) waiting for a franchise center; or (3) willing to start over at PF.

Therefore, I want to see them try what you are talking about ... but I don't think long term ... the Kings can roll out Garcia, Green/Casi, and Landry as 60% of the starters and make the playoffs ... unless, we draft Cousins and he's Shaq-esq

 

[bajaden]

I agree with Cisco being they type of combo guard we need. That is a great point. I don't love Cisco as a starter, but if he's your 5th best guy ... I'm good with that.

But if you are going to do that, then the Kings probably need to consider getting a great 3. (And like many, I want to fill that spot cheap with what we have.) Between the 2 and 3, there needs to be a star player. Probably an All-Star, at least somebody you can debate making the team.

Basically, you can't fill both the 2 and the 3 on the cheap.

You've got Reke. Landry is a nice player, but he's somewhere between Milsap and West. He's solid, but he's not the 2nd star. Unless we land the 2nd coming of Howard or Shaq, you are hoping for somewhere between a good center and decent (if you are waiting for a franchise center that can score 20 a night, that might take a while.) I think even Baja would say Cousins looks a lot more like Jefferon than Ewing or Shaq. That gets you a long way, that don't resolve what I'm talking about.

If you aren't considering drafting or paying for another really good player in the backcourt - then you are: (1) waiting on Green or Caspi to be an all star; (2) waiting for a franchise center; or (3) willing to start over at PF.

Therefore, I want to see them try what you are talking about ... but I don't think long term ... the Kings can roll out Garcia, Green/Casi, and Landry as 60% of the starters and make the playoffs ... unless, we draft Cousins and he's Shaq-esq

I always hate to put limits on how good I think a player can be. Mainly because I've been wrong too many times over the years. And usually the reason I've been wrong has been because I focused too much on what they couldn't do, instead of what they could do. So after learning my lesson for the 10,000th time, I try not to do that.

But off the top of my head, saying that Cousins is a taller version of Jefferson would be a good default comparison. How much better he may or may not be than Jefferson I'll leave to those with the crystal balls.

As far as Garcia, I have two concerns. First, I don't think he's a starting caliber SG/SF in the NBA. When I envision our team in the conference finals, I don't see Garcia in the starting lineup. However, at this point in time, he's the best we have at that position, and unless that changes between now and the start of the season, then I think he becomes the defacto starter.

My other concern is his health. Fluke accidents or not, he seems to be an injury magnet. I hope the trend ends with this latest injury. I like Garcia and wish him nothing but the best. Every team needs a Garcia on it.

As far as my vision goes, there's still plenty of time to resolve the SG position. SG is one of the easiest postions to fill if your not looking for a superstar, but just someone that fits and is a good complimentry player. As much as I like Garcia, the one area where I think he's lacking is in the ability to be a lock down defender. Not for lack of trying. He just doesn't have the athleticism. And for a team trying to improve on the defensive side of the ball, I think it needs to be a prerequisite at the SG position. You'd be amazed how much better your interior defense becomes, when you have good defenders on the perimiter. Sort of like the same relationship that defensive backs and pass rushers have.

Of course if we end up with Turner, then this whole conversation is moot.

 

[Kings Fan Gerard]

No Joe Johnson please. He's old and I don't think him and Reke would compliment each other in the back court.

Plus, I don't want to overpay to get him.

 

[Superman]

Damn, if 28 is old....

Maybe I'm being sensitive about this age thing, but the dude is actually in his prime. 26-30 is usually your prime as a basketball player. He's right in the middle of that. I don't want Joe Johnson anymore than the next Kings fan does (would have been nice to have in 2003, but no purpose for this team, as he wouldn't make us any better), but he's not OLD.

 

[LPKingsFan]

I agree with Cisco being they type of combo guard we need. That is a great point. I don't love Cisco as a starter, but if he's your 5th best guy ... I'm good with that.

But if you are going to do that, then the Kings probably need to consider getting a great 3. (And like many, I want to fill that spot cheap with what we have.) Between the 2 and 3, there needs to be a star player. Probably an All-Star, at least somebody you can debate making the team.

Basically, you can't fill both the 2 and the 3 on the cheap.

You've got Reke. Landry is a nice player, but he's somewhere between Milsap and West. He's solid, but he's not the 2nd star. Unless we land the 2nd coming of Howard or Shaq, you are hoping for somewhere between a good center and decent (if you are waiting for a franchise center that can score 20 a night, that might take a while.) I think even Baja would say Cousins looks a lot more like Jefferon than Ewing or Shaq. That gets you a long way, that don't resolve what I'm talking about.

If you aren't considering drafting or paying for another really good player in the backcourt - then you are: (1) waiting on Green or Caspi to be an all star; (2) waiting for a franchise center; or (3) willing to start over at PF.

Therefore, I want to see them try what you are talking about ... but I don't think long term ... the Kings can roll out Garcia, Green/Casi, and Landry as 60% of the starters and make the playoffs ... unless, we draft Cousins and he's Shaq-esq

I'm not sure about your point that there needs to be a star at the 2 or the 3. That's a fairly arbitrary assertion. Most successful teams either have a superstar, or a star big man and star guard or wing. We've got our star guard, and the idea is to draft our star big man this year (barring a top 2 pick, of course). So yeah, I guess I am pinning a lot of hopes on our pick this year--but given our situation, that's the most reasonable course of action.

Were I even to concede that you need a star wing along with Reke (seems redundant, don't you think?), I do think at least one of Greene and Casspi will make significant strides in the next year or so. Enough, at least, to say it's worth waiting on the pair and not burying them behind someone else.

So, long term, what do I see? A team led by Evans as the superstar and our draft pick this year as the stud big man inside. Flanked by Garcia, Greene, Casspi and Udrih at the guard and SF spots, and with JT starting next to our big man star as the uber garbage man, Dale Davis type guy. Landry, if he's around long term, I see returning to his scoring 6th man role. There, it's not hard to imagine now is it?

 

[TTown Kings]

Damn, if 28 is old....

Maybe I'm being sensitive about this age thing, but the dude is actually in his prime. 26-30 is usually your prime as a basketball player. He's right in the middle of that. I don't want Joe Johnson anymore than the next Kings fan does (would have been nice to have in 2003, but no purpose for this team, as he wouldn't make us any better), but he's not OLD.

You're right. He's not old, right now anyway. But what kind of contract is he going to require? My guess is 6-7 years. 35, in NBA terms is REAL old. Then you have an old oft-injured player with their toxic contract holding the team down for years. We've been there and done that. No thanks.

 

[LPKingsFan]

To elaborate, look at the 2006 Heat team that won the title. A 24 year old Wade had almost 27 7 and 7--insane numbers to be sure, but could Reke sniff that in 4 years? Maybe I'm wearing the purple tinted glasses, but I could see it happening.

Shaq averaged 20 and 9 with 1.8 blocks. I could see Cousins getting to 16, 17 and 9, reasonably, with Landry's scoring making up the difference. The other big men the Heat threw out there were Zo, Haslem and Antoine Walker. JT and Landry could easily macth Haslem and Walker. Hawes is no Zo, but Zo was playing only 20 minutes/game that year, so if we could swap him out for a defensive role player, we'd be ok.

As for the rest, there was a 12 and 5 averaging J-Will, Payton, Posey, and Derek Anderson. No stars (at the time) among that group. I think in a couple years Beno, Cisco, Greene and Casspi could hang with them as well.

 

[Larry David]

I could see Cousins getting to 16, 17 and 9,

Ok then!

I’d like to point out this is a league where guys like Oden, Bogut, and the Kandi man go first based merely on the possibility they could average 20 and 10. Not the likelihood they will – merely the possibility. The mock drafts factor that in … and you’d be hard pressed to find more than a handful of analysts, mocks, ect … that have Cousins in the top two. There are a lot of people smarter than either of us debating between Cousins and Favors.

If people thought your projection was probable, he goes #1 – even over Wall – to many teams. He never slips past 2.

While he’s a much better player and has much better feet, Cousins is closer to Dampier athletically than Shaq. Most likely he’s somewhere between Perkins and Jefferson. You’ve projected him out to be a top 5 center all time.

 

[bajaden]

Damn, if 28 is old....

Maybe I'm being sensitive about this age thing, but the dude is actually in his prime. 26-30 is usually your prime as a basketball player. He's right in the middle of that. I don't want Joe Johnson anymore than the next Kings fan does (would have been nice to have in 2003, but no purpose for this team, as he wouldn't make us any better), but he's not OLD.

If 28 is old, then I guess I'm a mummy. I'm not sure where this age thing comes from. Its as though people think that after a certain age you just done. I believe it has more to do with how many games you've played than how old your are. Although more often than not the two go hand in hand. But not always.

If age is such a huge factor in peoples minds, then lets take a look at who's left in the playoffs.

Celtics: This team is one step away from a nursing home.
Kevin Garnett - age 33
Rasheed Wallace - age 35
Michael Finley - age 37
Paul Pierce - age 32
Ray Allen - age 34
Marquis Daniels - age 29

Magic: One of the younger teams left.
Rashard Lewis - age 30
Adonal Foyle - age 35
Vince Carter - age 33
Jason Williams - age 34 (this one really makes me feel old)
Matt Barnes - age 30 (to think I watched Matt play at Del Campo)

Suns: Probably the youngest overall, except for their key player.
Steve Nash - age 36
Grant Hill - age 37
Jason Richardson - age 29
Jarron Collins - 31
Amare Stoudemire - age 27
Leandro Barbosa - age 27

Lakers:
Ron Artest - age 30
Kobe Bryant - age 31
Lamar Odom - age 30
Derek Fisher - age 35
D.J. Menga - age 29
Pau Gasol - age 29

These are the teams left. And I could also go through the rosters of Dallas and the Spurs. Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating we go out and sign a bunch of older more experienced players. If I had to choose right now between the Celtics and the Thunder, long term, I'd take the Thunder. But short term the Celtics have proven to be the better team. All I'm saying is that because a player is 28 or 29 years old, it doesn't mean he's ready for the scrap heap.

I think you have to look at every player indivually. Does he have a history of injuries. How may games has he already played in the NBA. In Johnson's case he's missed very few games since 2002 because of injury. He keeps himself in very good shape. But he's also played in 699 games. Going on the premise that few players play past 1000 games in the NBA, and when they do, they simply aren't the same player they used to be, I'd say Johnson has about 4 seasons left in him where he's very productive.

There are exceptions of course. Nash seems to be one. Nash just passed the 1000 game mark this year. But who know, it may catch up with him next year. We'll see. Anyway, if you don't like Johnson because of how he plays and don't think he's a good fit, or the cost is too high, thats fine. But please, enough with the age thing. He'll be 29 years old next season. And so will Francisco Garcia.....

 

[LPKingsFan]

Ok then!

I’d like to point out this is a league where guys like Oden, Bogut, and the Kandi man go first based merely on the possibility they could average 20 and 10. Not the likelihood they will – merely the possibility. The mock drafts factor that in … and you’d be hard pressed to find more than a handful of analysts, mocks, ect … that have Cousins in the top two. There are a lot of people smarter than either of us debating between Cousins and Favors.

If people thought your projection was probable, he goes #1 – even over Wall – to many teams. He never slips past 2.

While he’s a much better player and has much better feet, Cousins is closer to Dampier athletically than Shaq. Most likely he’s somewhere between Perkins and Jefferson. You’ve projected him out to be a top 5 center all time.

Hardly. Al Jefferson averaged 17 and 9 this season, and no one's claiming he's a top 5 center of all time (you may note that DraftExpress has "a taller Al Jefferson" as Cousins' best-case).

You must have missed my point when I said that Cousins could "get to 17 and 9." That wasn't average those numbers for his career. I don't think 17 and 9 at his peak is beyond what many prognosticators and mock drafters expect within reason.

 

[Larry David]

Shaq averaged 20 and 9 with 1.8 blocks. I could see Cousins getting to 16, 17 and 9, QUOTE]

Here is the disconnect. I figured a typo on blocks, but you appeared to say 16 pt and 17 boards with high blocks.

 

[swisshh]

Joe Johnson not looking like a #1 guy doesn't surprise me. He's not. He's a talented secondary guy on a top playoff team. Kings still need that second star, but the question from the playoffs now is if JJ has no killer instinct. That is a problem.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

Damn, if 28 is old....

Maybe I'm being sensitive about this age thing, but the dude is actually in his prime. 26-30 is usually your prime as a basketball player. He's right in the middle of that. I don't want Joe Johnson anymore than the next Kings fan does (would have been nice to have in 2003, but no purpose for this team, as he wouldn't make us any better), but he's not OLD.

i'd say he's old for what we are trying to achieve which is a group growing together. by the time the rest of the guys mature if some of them do.. JJ will be too old and need to be replaced. if our core guys take 4 years to get it together, JJ will be 32 years old. the rest of the guys will be in their prime or near prime.