When he came back in '04, he was absolutely huge. Arms, chest, shoulders... It was to the point that people were saying that his five game substance abuse suspension was for steroids, not marijuana (did we ever get any confirmation one way or the other about that?) That was the biggest he ever was in his career, and unless JT goes into body building, he'll likely never get that big.
Jason Thompson?
- Thread starter Gabriel
- Start date
When he came back in '04, he was absolutely huge. Arms, chest, shoulders... It was to the point that people were saying that his five game substance abuse suspension was for steroids, not marijuana (did we ever get any confirmation one way or the other about that?) That was the biggest he ever was in his career, and unless JT goes into body building, he'll likely never get that big.
The Hammer
All-Star
I want Hakeem on our coaching staff. Period. He should do it, too, as we have the best young frontline in the game.
My favorite big man of all time, bar none, hands down, eyes closed. The Dream was tops.
I guess you weren't here back then, but consensus was that Bibby was a better player than Nash for about three years. They played very different roles for their teams, but Bibby would regularly outperform Steve Nash during the Kings-Mavs matches. It got to the point where it wasn't even really a debate anymore, it was just Bibby > Nash, and everyone knew it.
And then, Webber left, and we tried to build around Bibby, Peja and Miller (wtf, right?), and all three were exposed as not having what it took to be "the man", or even one of the men. And it was around the same time that Nash went to Phoenix and was all of a sudden THE BEST point guard in the NBA. He wasn't doing anything that we didn't know he couldn't do, it's just that the team fed off of his play and seemed to be able to score at will, and it was all because of him. It's not like he got better. He just went to work with a team that was perfect for him. And the rest is history.
FaStRmAn
Starter
I think JT's game can move on to the next level now. Having to be in the same front court as Hawes meant he had to play defense on his man an Hawes's man too! Now he can be freed up to do his thing. He is athletic and versatile. I think his rebounding numbers will go up this year, as he wont be needed to score as much with the lineup we have now. The Kings need some outside shooters unless Casspi and Garcia are able to stay healthy and hit the outside J. It is going to be an exciting year for the Kings. I cant wait till summer camp starts. This is a young team with size and talent. I am hoping for a 40 win season this year and to build on that success next season with a free agent signing. GO KINGS !!
Telemachus
Starter
Almost every off-season, either NBAtv or ESPN Classic plays a special on the Houston Rockets back-to-back Championships. I love it when they show highlights from their WCC series with SA in the second championship run. The way Hakeem took David Robinson apart at both ends of the court in that series was absolutely a joy to watch. I remember watching it at the time, but it is amazing how quickly we forget just how good a player was after not seeing him for a while. I believe that David Robinson won both MVP & DPOY that season. However, head-to-head, there was no doubt that Hakeem was the superior player.
I have always held that Wilt is the best center of all time, with Kareem being the second best. And while I place Hakeem third on my list of best centers of all time, he is the best that I have really watched play. By the time I was watching Kareem, he was in the downside of his career. He was still a great player, but not the player he was during his prime.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
What about Bill Russell? (I know, I know, undersized at 5 but you can't forget him)
I agree. I also consider Hakeem the best that I have really watched play. He's got everything - size, skill, strength, and moves. Inside and out, offense and defense, you name it he's got it.
I've seen re-runs of games of Kareem and Wilt. IMO, these guys are not as skilled as Hakeem. Wilt even looked slow and lacking a lot of skills that Hakeem had. He looked like he was able to dominate the other centers only because there are no other strong centers other than him to stop him. Wilt and Kareem could not have been the best if they happened to play with Olajuwon at the same era.
Oh well, I know I didn't see all of their games and I might be biased. But this is just my opinion from what I've seen from reruns of old games.
Telemachus
Starter
I didn't forget him. I only listed my top 3 and Russell is 4th on my list. He may have all the championships, but I rank the other 3 above him.
Telemachus
Starter
I was always amazed how a guy that big could be one of the quickest guys on the floor. And I swear I can't remember a game that he played against the Kings when he didn't get at least 5 blocked shots.
I would have to disagree with you on this. Don't forget that Wilt was an all-american in both track-and-field & volleyball (if memory serves). Wilt and Russell were both at the beginning of a great era of centers in the NBA. Not to mention that there were fewer teams back in their day. This meant that teams played each other a lot more. I believe there were some seasons when Wilt & Russell faced off 12 times (during the season). This would make it much easier to scout out opposing players. You see anyone that much and you will have a pretty good idea of their game.
Hakeem was one of the last great centers of the era of centers. Shaq came along at a time when the top centers of the day (Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, etc.) were all at the end of their peak or just passed it. Unforetuneateley, we haven't really seen many top flight centers emerge since Shaq came into the league. Yao has had some moments, but hasn't become "great" IMO. Dwight Howard has the potential to be great, but has to work on his offensive game before that happens.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Having seen Wilt, Russell, Hakeem, Kareem, M. Malone, Reed, Shaq, Ewing, Walton, Unsell, Mourning, and I could go on, play, I can say with a clear consience that Wilt was the best of them all. He was also a world class hurdler and a great volley ball player. I don't know if there's ever been a center as strong as Wilt. When he came out of college he could dribble the ball like a guard. There simply wasn't much he couldn't do on the court as a player. And he played against great competiton during his career. Were talking about a guy that averaged 50 points a game for the year and at the same time averaged 25 rebounds for the same year. In 1967, if memory serves, he averaged 24.3 PPG, 23.8 RPG, and 8.6 APG. His career stats are 30.1 PPG and 22.9 RPG.
I would rank Kareem second, Hakeem Third and Russell fourth. But you could interchange any of those three after Wilt. Unfortunately they didn't keep track of blocked shots in those days and its a shame because Wilt probably would have averaged 6 or 7 blocks a game. And he wasn't the best shotblocker in the league. Russell was. I watched a game against my St. Louis Hawks with Bob Petitt where Russell blocked around 14 shots in the game. And while Russell wasn't the scorer that Wilt was, he did average around 15 or 16 PPG for his career.
I would rank Kareem second, Hakeem Third and Russell fourth. But you could interchange any of those three after Wilt. Unfortunately they didn't keep track of blocked shots in those days and its a shame because Wilt probably would have averaged 6 or 7 blocks a game. And he wasn't the best shotblocker in the league. Russell was. I watched a game against my St. Louis Hawks with Bob Petitt where Russell blocked around 14 shots in the game. And while Russell wasn't the scorer that Wilt was, he did average around 15 or 16 PPG for his career.
Sparky6string
Bench
My views are similar regarding Wilt and Hakeem. I must be about Telemachus' age because he describes my experience. Wilt however was extremely talented in so many aspects of the game. He led the league in assist as a center in year in which he also had 24.3 ppg and 23.8 rpg. I love the look of those sweet finger rolls he'd get over opposing players too. 
Telemachus
Starter
My views are similar regarding Wilt and Hakeem. I must be about Telemachus' age because he describes my experience. Wilt however was extremely talented in so many aspects of the game. He led the league in assist as a center in year in which he also had 24.3 ppg and 23.8 rpg. I love the look of those sweet finger rolls he'd get over opposing players too.
I started noticing the NBA in the early 80s, but mosty of my strong memories start in the second half of the 80s. I remember the great Celtic and Laker teams of that era, and think that those teams would likely sweep either of their counterparts of today in a 7 game series. I wish I could have seen some of great teams of the 70s, but was a bit too young to really pay attention at that point (I'm 39).
Sparky6string
Bench
Same here. I remember the young upstart Michael Jordan and going into his first championship series with the Lakers I recall arguing with my friend who was convinced Jordan was the GOAT despite not having won a single ring at that point. Obviously he silenced that criticism but history often fails to record the viewpoints of eras, and how shocking it was when history revealed itself over the years. I also remember Akeem being considered a trouble maker and some one who didn't give their all in games. That perception which was widely held at the time has since been all but forgotten. A lot has gone on since we started watching if you think about it. =)
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Honestly, yes.
Sparky6string
Bench
I think much of Kareem's greatness came from his longevity and that counts for something. I mean at least a couple of generations were privy to Kareems on court exploits first hand so when you talk about Kareem's prime you're talking about a long period lol. His game from what I saw was very polished and smooth. I don't think he could have muscled Shaq out of the paint or that kind of thing but at the end of the game his stats would have been similar. Wilt was smart and a heck of an athlete as he was a world class track athlete in college. I also think of the competition Wilt faced over his career like Bill Russell, Kareem, Wes Unseld, Willis Reed, Artis Gilmore etc. He was present for a real changing of the guard for big men which speaks to his versatility- I think Wilt would have dominated today.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
Its all subjective of course. There's no way we can really know for sure. I have the advantage of actually seeing all of them play. There's a misconception that the present players are always bigger, faster and more athletic than players of yestersday. While I'll admit that it may true in the overall picture today, I don't think its true individually. I would put Oscar Robertson up against any player in the league today. And that includes Kobe or Jordan. I'm not saying that he would be better than either of them, but I'am saying he would be on the same playing field with them. Ditto Elgin Baylor. Russell was just a terrific athlete, as was Wilt.
If I had to choose between Shaq and Hakeem as to who would give Wilt the biggest problem, I would choose Hakeem because of his ability to play away from the basket. Wilt was more skilled than Shaq and just as good an athlete. He was just as strong as Shaq. Wilt once broke another players wrist that was tryin to block his shot. It would have been fun to see Shaq and Wilt go up against one another.
I remember when Wilt turned, I believe, 50 years old and said he was considering returning to the NBA because everyone out there at the center position sucked and he could still outplay them. He never lacked for confidence.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I composed a list of all the good to great centers that Wilt played against at some point in his career.
Zelmo Beaty
Kareem Abdul Jabbar - HOF
Walt Bellamy - HOF
Wayne Embry
Darrall Imoff
Dan Issell
Sam Lacey
Bob Lanier - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Willis Reed - HOF
Bill Russell - HOF
Nate Thurmand - HOF
Wes Unseld - HOF
Artis Gilmore
I think we can safely say that he had plenty of competition
Gary
All-Star
If we were talking about the Kings from a few years back then stats = Peja, and impact = Webber. It's nice to have a stats guy because that means as long as the player plays within the teams chemistry then it's good.. Peja did do this, and helped the Kings.. Webber on the other hand was an impact player. We all knows what happens when you lose an impact player. All the Pejas in the world wouldn't have saved us. Guys like Iverson was a stats guy masquerading as an impact guy 
What's Thompson? Not much of anything yet. He's definitely not an impact guy at this point but he could become a starter on a good team if he's able to fit into the chemistry.. If that were the case he could become a stats guy and put down a team helping 17/10.
What's Thompson? Not much of anything yet. He's definitely not an impact guy at this point but he could become a starter on a good team if he's able to fit into the chemistry.. If that were the case he could become a stats guy and put down a team helping 17/10.
Telemachus
Starter
Yes! I think that Hakeem would have given them a run for their money, but utlimately would have come up just short. While Shaq was a great player in his time, he used his strength and athleticism to dominate. Kareem was never a physical force, but I don't remember seeing him get pushed around much either. He was also unstoppable on the offensive end of the court. Wilt OTOH, was just as athletic and strong as Shaq (maybe moreso) and a much more skilled player. I remember hearing Rick Barry go off on a caller (on KNBR) who suggested Shaq was the greatest center of all time. He pretty much said that Wilt was better than Shaq at pretty much every thing on the basketball court.
Telemachus
Starter
When Wilt said that he was sitting next to Bill Russell, and Russell agreed with him. Russell felt that there were few "great" rebounders in the game anymore and both he and Wilt could easily average 12-15 rbs a game even at their age.
bajaden
Hall of Famer
I don't think so.
Webber was ripped.
I'm not going to get into whose the stronger player thing. All I know is that Webb was one of the most explosive leapers I ever saw, and there's no doubt that he was very strong. Having not been in the gym with Thompson and watched him bench press 300 pounds, I have no idea how strong he is. But this I do know. Just having great definition doesn't always make you the strongest guy out there. The guys you see with the great definition in the Mr. Universe contest couldn't begin to lift as much weight as the big fat guys you see in the olympics with little definition. My point being that strength isn't always defined by definition.
Years ago I had a friend in our jeep club in Sacramento. He was a carpenter and had been a welder in the shipyards back east for years. His name was Zeke. One of the nicest men you would ever want to meet. I would guess Zeke to be around 6 foot, and probably weighing around 250. He had a large girth and very large arms, but with little definiton. He was the strongest man I very personally knew. Zeke could bend a penny in two between his thumb and index finger. He could take a broomstick, grab it at opposite ends and then twist it until it splintered in half. He threw 250 pound acetilene tanks around like they were toys. Once down at Pismo beach there was a dune buggy with a flat. The guys were having troubel getting it jacked up in the sand as the jack kept sinking down instead of the dune buggy going up. Zeke got out and picked up the back of the dune buggy and held it there while they replace the tire. So don't be to influenced by just definition. Its certainly an indication that someone's been working out. But the lack of it doesn't always mean the the person isn't strong.
Andre87
Bench
Have you ever seen Webber as a King?!?!
haithamkhe
Prospect
Anyone who compares thompson to webber is sick in their mind. Webber was smarter, had many more skills and played better post defense. Webber had a swagger when he played. Meanwhile thompson uses his energy/swagger to play stupid basketball and that is why he is so foul prone. I don't think thompson can ever play at the level that webber did. nontheless, he is still a valuable asset off the bench with a more specific role without asking him to do so much.
Emma
Starter
I like JT, I've been 10 feet away from him several times, even sort of "met" him once. I was not particularly visually impressed with his build, but I got the sense that he wasn't done growing into his body yet. He's noted as a slow growth type of person, even playing guard at times coming up. Maybe he's one of those people that won't be done filling in until he's in his late twenties.
But I like him, I hope he stays a king for a long time.
But I like him, I hope he stays a king for a long time.
mcsluggo
Starter
i disagree!
Bibby arguably outplayed Nash when they perenially played head-to-head in the playoffs. But Nash easily played better in general. (Persoanlly I think it is arguable whether Bibby REALLY out-played Nash, but there is no questioon that he brought his a-game against Nash, and certainly held his own.) The other thing was that there was a perception that Bibby was a play-off/big game player.
there was never one second of one day that I wouldn't have traded Bibby for Nash in one-half-of-a-heartbeat, had it been offered.
Yours proved to be the correct viewpoint, but it wasn't popular, at least not around here.
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