It's Time Maloofs...Fire Petrie (chapter 3)

#1
Figured I would restart this topic.

The previous thread was here. - VF21

Petrie has run this team into the ground and even the one bright spot in the past 5 years....Kevin Martin.....seems to be made of glass and can't play a whole season(let alone half a season) without missing huge amounts of time. I'm tired of everyone on this board blaming either the Maloof's or the Coach and it's about time we throw some blame on the one constant that got us into this mess.....Geoff Petrie and his "patience" mantra.

The team in the early 2000's that we know and loved was built pretty much in one fell swoop. We gambled and traded for Webber and signed Divac and then surrounded them with other players. This whole "build through the draft" doesn't work(especially with the dwindling crowds and suspect drafts we have had in the past) and the teams that are succesful either get lucky in their draft spot or are agressive with trades....we have been neither.

I WAS a season ticket holder for the past 8 seasons and bought ticket packs for the 7 seasons prior to that but no more. I can't pay these prices and watched this dog*^&% product that is currently masquerading as an NBA franchise.
 
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#2
You know, I'm looking at teams like the Trailblazers who basically have completely retooled their team in the last three years. They went 21-61 two years ago, and won 20 more games last year. The Hornets have done similarly well in a reasonably short period of time.

There have been other teams in the past four years or so who have made similar improvements and are now relevant.

And it's not just the roster. It's other decisions that have been made in recent years that have dropped our status in the League. We fired our most successful coach after a 44 win season in which we made the playoffs, and the best we've done since is 38 wins (just enough to avoid a good draft pick). There's no traces of the championship contender we used to be, or even the perennial playoff contender we were just three years ago. We hired two terrible coaches in a row, neither of which lasted as much as two seasons.

Our draft picks and free agent acquisitions have been subpar, to put it mildly. And it's not just the players we've picked that bothers me; the fact that we've had a practice of giving up draft picks in recent seasons is also troubling.

Now, to be fair, a lot of this is residual from our climb to the top and unforeseen fall back to the pack shortly thereafter. And it's not necessarily Geoff's fault. It's not really anyone's fault, actually. But we don't have to blame anyone to recognize that the people we have aren't able to do what we need them to do at this point. And I'm not confident that Geoff Petrie is able to do what we need to do to be a good team again.

That might be because the Maloofs won't let him; if so, then he shouldn't be here. It might be because his temperament isn't right for the task at hand, maybe he's too laid back and patient to make the tough "do or die" decisions that good teams are built on; if so, then he shouldn't be the one making those decisions.

When I look at the moves that other teams have made in the last two years or so (Boston, New Orleans, Denver, Detroit, Lakers, Phoenix, Dallas, etc.), I wonder if our GM is the type to make bold, risky moves to improve the team, especially since we haven't done anything to get better in the past several seasons, aside from draft picks. I wonder if he's willing to do the things that Kevin Pritchard in Portland has done to build a good team. I wonder if he's able to convince the Maloofs to let him.

I've been a pretty avid defender of Geoff Petrie for years now. I'm certainly not part of the crowd who has been calling for his head. But he's run out of credits with me. I can't continue to defend him when we get consistently worse, season after season, when we run our high caliber coach out of town and then replace him with unproven losers like Eric Musselman and Reggie Theus, etc. It's just too much for me to look beyond and think "this is the guy who will rebuild this team and put us back on the map".

And again, before you decide to blast me for blaming Petrie for the junk of a team that we have right now and the situation we're in, remember that it's not about blaming him for our troubles (he is in charge of basketball related decisions, mind you). It's that I don't think he's the guy who can fix it, and I think it's time to close the book on the Petrie/Adelman era of the Kings.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#3
Figured I would restart this topic.


The team in the early 2000's that we know and loved was built pretty much in one fell swoop. We gambled and traded for Webber and signed Divac and then surrounded them with other players. This whole "build through the draft" doesn't work(especially with the dwindling crowds and suspect drafts we have had in the past) and the teams that are succesful either get lucky in their draft spot or are agressive with trades....we have been neither.
It can work, and we're at the point of finding out if it will. I believe in the ugliness for a purpose...and there's definite purpose. We're looking at a top 5 draft pick. Woo!
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#4
I'am sick to death of this subject. Its been beaten to death. What is the point, except to vent some frustration at Petrie, or Natt, or Reggie, or Petrie's replacement if he does get fired. We really are living in a society of instant gratification.

So you were a season ticket holder for the last 8 years. Well I was a season ticket holder for the first 10 years. You get no sympathy from me.

Everyone wanted the rebuild. Everyone knew it wasn't going to be easy. Maybe even ugly. So now here we are, having just what we wanted, and everyong wants to ***** about it.
 
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A

AriesMar27

Guest
#5
if the kings had traded for pau gasol instead of the lakers and the celtics hadnt traded for kg and allen we probably wouldnt be having this discussion.

but since we are... what do you expect from petrie? what more can he do? if you can find a tem that wants to give away their franchise player for pennies on the dollar you should call geoff right now.... im not happy with everything that he has done but he didnt have much of a choice. and its not as bad as some of the other teams out there, look at the clippers.

the coaching decisions have sucked so far but thats to be expected... our team just isnt very good. those of you that wanted a complete rebuild got their wish. we are horrible now... you should be excited to lose every night, that puts you one step closer to a higher pick...

i hope that he picks a good coach this time around... either saunders, avery or sam mitchell... no more newbies....
 
#6
I'm not going to be calling for Petrie's head.

However, the next 10 months will be pivotal.

Bricklayer spelled it out clearly in the Grade's thread.
The Horry Three and Webber's knee most likely cost us two championships, and really Webber's knee hurt more than anything.

Imagine how different history would have been if Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, or Wade would have blown out their knees?
If each one of those teams lost that player, we'd be looking at 10 years of different champions.

Remember the Lakers before they got Gasol? The Clippers were looking better than them, but the Lakers still had Kobe.
Imagine if Kobe blew out his knee during that time.
The Gasol trade would probably not of happened and they'd be in dire straights, struggling but definitely not good enough to compete with Boston, Cleveland, Houston, New Orleans, ect.

So, I don't put too much blame on Geoff right now as Webber's injury crippled us.
BUT
Things are finally coming together now towards the point where we can make a return to relevance. If he mishandles this team over the next 10 months or so, I might start wondering if we'd be better off going with a different GM.
 
#8
Com'on guys, we're finally on the right path to rebuilding (high draft pick, plenty of cap room in 2010, etc), now is the time to set Petrie loose and let him do what he does best. All I'll be doing is sit back and enjoy the ride knowing that soon enough, we'll be on top again.
 
#9
Com'on guys, we're finally on the right path to rebuilding (high draft pick, plenty of cap room in 2010, etc), now is the time to set Petrie loose and let him do what he does best. All I'll be doing is sit back and enjoy the ride knowing that soon enough, we'll be on top again.
What has taken him so long.
While I think he shouldnt have a job, I wonder who could be brought in...Brick anyone;)
 

Capt. Factorial

trifolium contra tempestatem subrigere certum est
Staff member
#11
You know, I'm looking at teams like the Trailblazers who basically have completely retooled their team in the last three years. They went 21-61 two years ago, and won 20 more games last year.
Portland's rebuild:
Year 0: 50-32, made playoffs, drafted Travis Outlaw
Year 1: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Sebastian Telfair and Sergei Monia
Year 2: 27-55, drafted Martell Webster
Year 3: 21-61, drafted Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Sergio Rodriguez
Year 4: 32-50, lucked into #1 overall pick, drafted Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez
Year 5: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum
Year 6: ?? Look like a playoff team, probably not a contender
Year 7: Contender?

Looking at the Kings:
Year 0: 44-38, made playoffs, drafted Quincy Douby
Year 1: 33-49, missed playoffs, drafted Spencer Hawes
Year 2: 38-44, drafted Jason Thompson, got Donté Greene
Year 3: Looking like a 20-win season...

Looks to me like we're a long way away. But we did a better job of drafting in Year 1 and Year 2 than the Blazers. Still, if we follow the Blazers' lead, this year will be horrible (obviously). We'll land a solid player in the draft. Next year, developing that solid player, we'll improve but still miss the playoffs. We can't count on lucking into #1, but with Hawes, Thompson, and Greene instead of Telfair, Monia and Webster we're OK with a #7-10 pick. '10-'11 we'll push .500, pick up another late-lotto player and extend Hawes. '11-'12 is our year to break into the playoffs, we'll extend Thompson and Greene. '12-'13 would then be our first year to contend with our young team (and yes, it will still be a young team).

So following the Blazers' schedule, don't expect us to be in the playoffs next year. Patience. Patience.
 
#12
Even if this thread did not deserve any merit, I would have to argue that Geoff Petrie is resting heavily on his laurels. I agree with a great deal of what he had done with Peja, Webber, and Vlade. And I often wonder if Petrie would have made those free throws missed by Peja in game 6, and if we would be in a better position to contend for the first overall pick in the NBA draft if Peja was President and GM of Basketball Ops. It seems like the Maloofs have tricked us into thinking they know what is best for the kings. I have so many theories that may or may not tie into the torchmob. I have called for Petrie's employment to end a few weeks ago, and if Petrie goes, so would Pete Carril, and the next domino would be Jerry Reynolds, and finally Gary Gerold. Then we would be left with what the GSW are having to deal with. The GSW have very little draw, mystique, or presence about their upper management in direct contrast to LAL, BOS, IND, CHA. Luckily, because of Petrie and friends, we place relatively high in that category(not like it really matters). But it does, and don't kid yourself thinking it doesn't. We are closing in on a very important draft, moreso than anyother draft in recent history(for the kings). If he misses or gambles poorly or under-manuevers in the 09' draft, I will have to ask him to leave, and my confidence in the Kings in general will be shaken to the point of no return(I.E. BOUNCE!)

In conclusion

Dear Petrie,

Don't make the kings re-locate, unless thats part of the plan.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#13
People still bring up firing Adelman as the worst thing we ever did... so riddle me this, we fire Petrie. Who are we going to hire that's better? Do you trust the Maloofs to pick someone who won't be one of their yes men?

I'm not saying we can't do better, but I still am not sure who has dug us into this hole. We are playing the coaching carousel game now, I still don't know if its that the coaches don't get that we're rebuilding or if they are being directed to salvage the season. Is this the Maloofs or Petrie?
 
#15
Portland's rebuild:
Year 0: 50-32, made playoffs, drafted Travis Outlaw
Year 1: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Sebastian Telfair and Sergei Monia
Year 2: 27-55, drafted Martell Webster
Year 3: 21-61, drafted Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Sergio Rodriguez
Year 4: 32-50, lucked into #1 overall pick, drafted Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez
Year 5: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum
Year 6: ?? Look like a playoff team, probably not a contender
Year 7: Contender?

Looking at the Kings:
Year 0: 44-38, made playoffs, drafted Quincy Douby
Year 1: 33-49, missed playoffs, drafted Spencer Hawes
Year 2: 38-44, drafted Jason Thompson, got Donté Greene
Year 3: Looking like a 20-win season...

Looks to me like we're a long way away. But we did a better job of drafting in Year 1 and Year 2 than the Blazers. Still, if we follow the Blazers' lead, this year will be horrible (obviously). We'll land a solid player in the draft. Next year, developing that solid player, we'll improve but still miss the playoffs. We can't count on lucking into #1, but with Hawes, Thompson, and Greene instead of Telfair, Monia and Webster we're OK with a #7-10 pick. '10-'11 we'll push .500, pick up another late-lotto player and extend Hawes. '11-'12 is our year to break into the playoffs, we'll extend Thompson and Greene. '12-'13 would then be our first year to contend with our young team (and yes, it will still be a young team).

So following the Blazers' schedule, don't expect us to be in the playoffs next year. Patience. Patience.
just wanted to let you know I think this is a great post.

People seem to think the blazers did some rediculous rebuild that didnt take that long .. it took them 7 years.

I'll agree that our rebuild should have started sooner and it deffinetly hasnt been perfect, but considering we had musselman as a coach, and the maloofs as owners, I think were doing alright ( as far as the rebuild is concerned, our team is far from alright ).
 
#16
Portland's rebuild:
Year 0: 50-32, made playoffs, drafted Travis Outlaw
Year 1: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Sebastian Telfair and Sergei Monia
Year 2: 27-55, drafted Martell Webster
Year 3: 21-61, drafted Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Sergio Rodriguez
Year 4: 32-50, lucked into #1 overall pick, drafted Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez
Year 5: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum
Year 6: ?? Look like a playoff team, probably not a contender
Year 7: Contender?

Looking at the Kings:
Year 0: 44-38, made playoffs, drafted Quincy Douby
Year 1: 33-49, missed playoffs, drafted Spencer Hawes
Year 2: 38-44, drafted Jason Thompson, got Donté Greene
Year 3: Looking like a 20-win season...

Looks to me like we're a long way away. But we did a better job of drafting in Year 1 and Year 2 than the Blazers. Still, if we follow the Blazers' lead, this year will be horrible (obviously). We'll land a solid player in the draft. Next year, developing that solid player, we'll improve but still miss the playoffs. We can't count on lucking into #1, but with Hawes, Thompson, and Greene instead of Telfair, Monia and Webster we're OK with a #7-10 pick. '10-'11 we'll push .500, pick up another late-lotto player and extend Hawes. '11-'12 is our year to break into the playoffs, we'll extend Thompson and Greene. '12-'13 would then be our first year to contend with our young team (and yes, it will still be a young team).

So following the Blazers' schedule, don't expect us to be in the playoffs next year. Patience. Patience.
Great post, agree 100%
 
#17
I'am sick to death of this subject. Its been beaten to death. What is the point, except to vent some frustration at Petrie, or Natt, or Reggie, or Petrie's replacement if he does get fired. We really are living in a society of instant gratification.

So you were a season ticket holder for the last 8 years. Well I was a season ticket holder for the first 10 years. You get no sympathy from me.

Everyone wanted the rebuild. Everyone knew it wasn't going to be easy. Maybe even ugly. So now here we are, having just what we wanted, and everyong wants to ***** about it.
Agreed #1.
 
#18
Portland's rebuild:
Year 0: 50-32, made playoffs, drafted Travis Outlaw
Year 1: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Sebastian Telfair and Sergei Monia
Year 2: 27-55, drafted Martell Webster
Year 3: 21-61, drafted Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Sergio Rodriguez
Year 4: 32-50, lucked into #1 overall pick, drafted Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez
Year 5: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum
Year 6: ?? Look like a playoff team, probably not a contender
Year 7: Contender?

Looking at the Kings:
Year 0: 44-38, made playoffs, drafted Quincy Douby
Year 1: 33-49, missed playoffs, drafted Spencer Hawes
Year 2: 38-44, drafted Jason Thompson, got Donté Greene
Year 3: Looking like a 20-win season...

Looks to me like we're a long way away. But we did a better job of drafting in Year 1 and Year 2 than the Blazers. Still, if we follow the Blazers' lead, this year will be horrible (obviously). We'll land a solid player in the draft. Next year, developing that solid player, we'll improve but still miss the playoffs. We can't count on lucking into #1, but with Hawes, Thompson, and Greene instead of Telfair, Monia and Webster we're OK with a #7-10 pick. '10-'11 we'll push .500, pick up another late-lotto player and extend Hawes. '11-'12 is our year to break into the playoffs, we'll extend Thompson and Greene. '12-'13 would then be our first year to contend with our young team (and yes, it will still be a young team).

So following the Blazers' schedule, don't expect us to be in the playoffs next year. Patience. Patience.
Agreed #2.
 
#19
How interesting is it that we place blame so quickly. We honestly have no idea what goes on behind closed doors. I get that things in the kingdom arn't going all that well and haven't for a while, however, I still have a bit of faith that there is light at the end of the tunnel. It just cracks me up how negative people can be, yet, we arn't the one's playing out there and what not.... I can't even read the bee these days because they are so negative. Give em a chance to breathe. I get it -we are not the hottest ticket in the NBA this season - but, a bit of faith wouldn't help!

Not to go on forever. That is just my look on it.
 
#21
Portland's rebuild:
Year 0: 50-32, made playoffs, drafted Travis Outlaw
Year 1: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Sebastian Telfair and Sergei Monia
Year 2: 27-55, drafted Martell Webster
Year 3: 21-61, drafted Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Sergio Rodriguez
Year 4: 32-50, lucked into #1 overall pick, drafted Greg Oden and Rudy Fernandez
Year 5: 41-41, missed playoffs, drafted Jerryd Bayless and Nicolas Batum
Year 6: ?? Look like a playoff team, probably not a contender
Year 7: Contender?

Looking at the Kings:
Year 0: 44-38, made playoffs, drafted Quincy Douby
Year 1: 33-49, missed playoffs, drafted Spencer Hawes
Year 2: 38-44, drafted Jason Thompson, got Donté Greene
Year 3: Looking like a 20-win season...

Looks to me like we're a long way away. But we did a better job of drafting in Year 1 and Year 2 than the Blazers. Still, if we follow the Blazers' lead, this year will be horrible (obviously). We'll land a solid player in the draft. Next year, developing that solid player, we'll improve but still miss the playoffs. We can't count on lucking into #1, but with Hawes, Thompson, and Greene instead of Telfair, Monia and Webster we're OK with a #7-10 pick. '10-'11 we'll push .500, pick up another late-lotto player and extend Hawes. '11-'12 is our year to break into the playoffs, we'll extend Thompson and Greene. '12-'13 would then be our first year to contend with our young team (and yes, it will still be a young team).

So following the Blazers' schedule, don't expect us to be in the playoffs next year. Patience. Patience.
This should be on the front page of the website in bold.

And as much as I dislike decisions like signing Moore to the MLE and the Garcia extension, at least we haven't done anything completely idiotic like signing Darius Miles to a 6 year $48 million contract, which Portland did in the midst of their rebuild.

This is the rebuild we thought it would be. People have been hoping for years that we'd lose enough games to get a top draft pick. This is what it looks like. It's ugly.
 

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#22
I really dont like that excuse. If they really tired his hands that much, he could have resigned. This horrible rebuild falls to the GM.
Why? They had a great team he had put together that was >< close from having rings, maybe two years in a row. He and the Maloofs get along well.

It is always easier to say "resign and go somewhere else". The man has family and loves the organization.

Do your best with what you are given, and the grass isn't always greener somewhere else.

Oh, and by the way, the rebuild is just beginning - you act like it is a finished product when it will take a couple more years to work it's way through....

This is the "ugly" part of the rebuild - buck up and look to the future. Don't give up now.....
 
#23
Oh, and by the way, the rebuild is just beginning - you act like it is a finished product when it will take a couple more years to work it's way through....

This is the "ugly" part of the rebuild - buck up and look to the future. Don't give up now.....
The rebuild should have begun long ago. We have been getting worse every year for the last 8 years now. When your job is to make the team better and you fail 8 years in a row, I don't see how the mantra in Petrie we trust should apply.
 
#24
I just don't think the guy has the balls to stand up to the Maloofs and demand that they get the hell out of his way so that he can do his job. I don't think that all the decisions that have been made are his decisions, but that's what bothers me about him. I don't think he can really regain full control and be "the guy" who gets us back to respectability.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#26
I just don't think the guy has the balls to stand up to the Maloofs and demand that they get the hell out of his way so that he can do his job. I don't think that all the decisions that have been made are his decisions, but that's what bothers me about him. I don't think he can really regain full control and be "the guy" who gets us back to respectability.
Unfortunately you can't fire the owners, if they want to meddle, they are going to. Do you really think a GM who said "get the hell out of my way" would last long with any team with hands on owners? The Maloofs may not be Al Davis or even Mark Cuban but they're aren't the type of guys that will just sit back and watch from the sidelines either.
 
#27
Unfortunately you can't fire the owners, if they want to meddle, they are going to. Do you really think a GM who said "get the hell out of my way" would last long with any team with hands on owners? The Maloofs may not be Al Davis or even Mark Cuban but they're aren't the type of guys that will just sit back and watch from the sidelines either.
There's plenty of evidence that the biggest decisions that have been made over the past four years were either made by the Maloofs or greatly influenced by their desire to do something that Geoff didn't want them to do. (For instance, Eric Musselman was a distraction from John Whisenant.)

I don't think Petrie should pound on his desk and demand that the Maloofs sign off on all his decisions, but there is a problem with the dynamic of their relationship, one way or the other. Either he's making these terrible decisions himself or he's not able to convince the Maloofs that they should allow him to make better decisions. And if either of those are the case, then he's not the guy we need.

Geoff has an incredible eye for talent. He's shown the ability to build a good team. But he's not been able to either keep us competitive or get us back on track in a reasonable period of time (and maybe neither of those are his fault; I'm not blaming him for where we are). I'm not confident that he's going to be able to.
 

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#28
I think we're in agreement Supes, the question is - if Petrie who has shown an eye for talent but is perhaps too cozy with ownership is out, is there any reason to believe that the guy who comes in is going to be anything but a yes-man for the Maloofs? So far they have shown an extreme reluctance to go outside their circle. If the lone voice of reason, no matter how oft-vetoed is out, I can't imagine things will get better before they get far far worse. We learned our lesson with Adelman (even though I think we'd still be awful with this lineup).
 
#29
I'm as frustrated as anyone else that it's taken this long to get to where we are. The rebuild should have begun with the Webber trade or, barring that, when it became immediately apparent that the remaining Bibby/Peja/Miller troika had zero juice and were never going to be a serious team again. The decision was made to tread water with Artest and Bonzi powerball, which looked briefly promising, but we all know what happened.

Whatever the past decisions that have led to half a decade of mediocrity, at least now things are on the right track. This is a true rebuild. We're sucking, mercifully. We have promising young players and ending contracts. We'll be thankful for this season of suck come June and the draft, when we're choosing among lotto picks. And in 2010 we'll (hopefully) have cap room.

I guess I don't understand the angst all of a sudden. This is precisely what people have been wanting, and what the team has needed, for the last five years. Now that it's finally here, people are getting soft!
 
#30
I think we're in agreement Supes, the question is - if Petrie who has shown an eye for talent but is perhaps too cozy with ownership is out, is there any reason to believe that the guy who comes in is going to be anything but a yes-man for the Maloofs? So far they have shown an extreme reluctance to go outside their circle. If the lone voice of reason, no matter how oft-vetoed is out, I can't imagine things will get better before they get far far worse. We learned our lesson with Adelman (even though I think we'd still be awful with this lineup).
Maybe we get the right guy, maybe we don't. I think that the relationship between the Maloofs and Petrie is irreparable, though. Not that they can't work together, but that Petrie will always be vetoed because he's so easy to veto.

And maybe what I'm proposing is the wrong thing to do; I realize that the grass is not always greener. It just bothers me that we have this guy who was once widely regarded as a genius running the team, but his handprints really aren't identifiable on this whole mess. It's like he hasn't been involved, other than making draft picks. Hopefully I'm proven wrong, and the cap space pays off in 2010 and we start to improve and get back in the mix. I do prefer where we are now as opposed to two years ago.