It's early, but anybody have a draft wish list yet?
- Thread starter bluntsnbball
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You should ask that from the draft experts around here -- I only check in on guys a few times a year just to know what's going on. Just don't have the time to follow it like I do the NBA. Jones rep though is of a possible All Star capable talent with a knuckle passionless head. He could be this draft's Anthony Randolph.
Leonard can step out - doesn't mean you want him to. He's not a triple threat outside of deep post. And it's not like he will kill you with his 20-footer. And then you suddenly remember that without his offense you're not sure why you have him on the floor - he's average rebounder, average defender as a C. Play him with Cousins and one of them will be murdered by PnR.
The weakness you described applies to other twin towers who won championships. Pau can step out, you just don't want him to. Bynum can step out, you just don't want him to. Duncan can step out, etc, etc. On PnR, I just don't buy that Bynum/Gasol are great pick and roll defenders. Same with Marc Gasol/Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson/Millsap, Spencer Hawes/Elton Brand (the current version), or Kevin Love/Pekovic. On paper, all of those frontcourt should be killed by PnR, but somehow they stopped them, at least enough times to be competitive teams.
We all want to pair Anthony Davis with Cousins, but that plan is out the window now. In an ideal world, the Kings draft Drummond and he becomes a defensive stud, but that's far from certain (the defensive stud part). Meyers actually can kill a team with 18-20 footers - he was a guard until a late growth spurt and he is very good at knocking them down, like a guard. Furthermore, Meyers is a good rebounder, I don't know why you say he's an average rebounder - Meyers actually out rebounded the college Roy Hibberts, and he's right around where Al Horford, Tristan Thompson were when they were in college and around the same age as Meyers is. Also, Meyers can block shots, pass, and can play in the high or low post. It's not like he's Mikki Moore. Now, is Meyers the idea guy next to Cousins? No. But once again the Kings found themselves in a less than ideal position so may as well try to make the best of it. Do I think GP will pick Meyers? No way. I would be surprised if he does. But Leonard is a very underrated player who will be talked about as a guy who should go higher years from now and he happens to be a center and the Kings happen to need a quality big man, that's my point; but I don't think GP will draft Meyers, not because of talent.
We all want to pair Anthony Davis with Cousins, but that plan is out the window now. In an ideal world, the Kings draft Drummond and he becomes a defensive stud, but that's far from certain (the defensive stud part). Meyers actually can kill a team with 18-20 footers - he was a guard until a late growth spurt and he is very good at knocking them down, like a guard. Furthermore, Meyers is a good rebounder, I don't know why you say he's an average rebounder - Meyers actually out rebounded the college Roy Hibberts, and he's right around where Al Horford, Tristan Thompson were when they were in college and around the same age as Meyers is. Also, Meyers can block shots, pass, and can play in the high or low post. It's not like he's Mikki Moore. Now, is Meyers the idea guy next to Cousins? No. But once again the Kings found themselves in a less than ideal position so may as well try to make the best of it. Do I think GP will pick Meyers? No way. I would be surprised if he does. But Leonard is a very underrated player who will be talked about as a guy who should go higher years from now and he happens to be a center and the Kings happen to need a quality big man, that's my point; but I don't think GP will draft Meyers, not because of talent.
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That's what happens when your local Jiffy Lube is run more professionally. I stand by previous statements that culture/perception of this franchise/FO/Ownership is why we'll have a hell of a time trying to attract FA's, or in this case top draftees to workout and consider playing here, rather than location.
Being located in Sac is not as large a problem as the clusterf*** of stupidity surrounding everything we do.
Also have to wonder, since each of our players have agents and share many of the same agents representing draftees, are our guys just buying their time until they move on? What are the conversations like between our players and their agents? I'd assume Reke and his agent Tellem aren't too high are being here. Might just be the tip of the iceberg.
Being located in Sac is not as large a problem as the clusterf*** of stupidity surrounding everything we do.
Also have to wonder, since each of our players have agents and share many of the same agents representing draftees, are our guys just buying their time until they move on? What are the conversations like between our players and their agents? I'd assume Reke and his agent Tellem aren't too high are being here. Might just be the tip of the iceberg.
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Estimating only potential I'd rank them like this:
All-Star:
Davis, Drummond, Barnes
Borderline All-Star: (like a Bibby or Peja)
MKG, Robinson, Beal, P. Jones
Solid Starter:
J. Lamb, T. Jones, Moultrie, Sullinger, Ross, Miller, Harkless
And then everyone else, with the caveat that Drummond, Barnes, P. Jones, Miller, and Harkless still have a long ways to go to reach that potential.
All-Star:
Davis, Drummond, Barnes
Borderline All-Star: (like a Bibby or Peja)
MKG, Robinson, Beal, P. Jones
Solid Starter:
J. Lamb, T. Jones, Moultrie, Sullinger, Ross, Miller, Harkless
And then everyone else, with the caveat that Drummond, Barnes, P. Jones, Miller, and Harkless still have a long ways to go to reach that potential.
With the 36th overall pick: Jae Crowder, John Shurna, Robbie Hummel, Furkan Aldemir, Will Barton or Chris Johnson. Any of those six I feel is a steal.
As for our lottery pick, I'm a believer in Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Terrence Jones, Dion Waiters, John Henson and Quincy Miller.
As for our lottery pick, I'm a believer in Anthony Davis, Bradley Beal, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Terrence Jones, Dion Waiters, John Henson and Quincy Miller.
There's a lot of movement in perceived draft ranges and at #36 you will probably have a chance to get some guys firmly projected at early twenties right now. If we only take into consideration guys projected to go after #35 by DE right now I would look at Kyle O'Quinn from Norfolk State (defensive-minded big with some offense) and Tu Holloway from Xavier(senior combo-guard).
The thing about the draft is that 5 years from now, people attempt to re-do the draft and we often get wide-varying results. Sure, there are intangible things, proper fits, player work ethics and whatnot to account for, but a large part of the whole process is just overhype of players. There needs to be a way to contain the noise, and draft rationally.
As a draft analyzer, my wish list is wayy different from the mocks. Crowder is actually 9th, Shurna 10th, Hummel 11th. I think people are actually underestimating the latter two--every year there's undoubtedly going to be some undrafted guy who turns heads, fits into some scheme properly, and makes GMs wonder in retrospect, "How the hell did that guy not get drafted?" Believe me, Shurna and Hummel are headed down that slope. One of the things that can make you last a decade in this league is height and shooting. Both Shurna and Hummel aren't super tall, but have good size at 6'8", good shooting ability, are overlooked because they play at small schools/are too injury prone, but both also rebound well, pass the ball well for their size, hustle hard on defense actually. Almost guaranteed Korver types. That stuff has a place in the league.
As for Crowder, super underrated guy. I project them as a very good defender against SFs, which he can play because he actually has underrated ballhandling/passing ability for the position. Good rebounder, finisher, strong intangibles and work ethic. If we're going to compare him with someone like Jeff Taylor, I prefer Crowder more, because the heart/hustle stuff just seems to be more of a known quantity than whether or not Taylor can truly have a consistently good long term stroke in the league. He'll definitely be underrated and he should at least be firmly drafted in the first round, had the noise been reduced.
As a draft analyzer, my wish list is wayy different from the mocks. Crowder is actually 9th, Shurna 10th, Hummel 11th. I think people are actually underestimating the latter two--every year there's undoubtedly going to be some undrafted guy who turns heads, fits into some scheme properly, and makes GMs wonder in retrospect, "How the hell did that guy not get drafted?" Believe me, Shurna and Hummel are headed down that slope. One of the things that can make you last a decade in this league is height and shooting. Both Shurna and Hummel aren't super tall, but have good size at 6'8", good shooting ability, are overlooked because they play at small schools/are too injury prone, but both also rebound well, pass the ball well for their size, hustle hard on defense actually. Almost guaranteed Korver types. That stuff has a place in the league.
As for Crowder, super underrated guy. I project them as a very good defender against SFs, which he can play because he actually has underrated ballhandling/passing ability for the position. Good rebounder, finisher, strong intangibles and work ethic. If we're going to compare him with someone like Jeff Taylor, I prefer Crowder more, because the heart/hustle stuff just seems to be more of a known quantity than whether or not Taylor can truly have a consistently good long term stroke in the league. He'll definitely be underrated and he should at least be firmly drafted in the first round, had the noise been reduced.
i dont think we want drummond....
i was reading a artical about the kings reaction to the 5th pick and found this
"I think we'll get a good player," Petrie said. "I definitely think we'll get a player who can come in and contribute."
nobody expects drummond to be nba ready right away do they or have i compleatly got this wrong???
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/05/31/4527417/kings-not-unhappy-with-fifth-draft.html#storylink=cpy
i was reading a artical about the kings reaction to the 5th pick and found this
"I think we'll get a good player," Petrie said. "I definitely think we'll get a player who can come in and contribute."
nobody expects drummond to be nba ready right away do they or have i compleatly got this wrong???
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/05/31/4527417/kings-not-unhappy-with-fifth-draft.html#storylink=cpy
To be honest with you, I'm not completely enamored with our 5th pick relative to the (expected) players that we should draft there. If you've read my previous posts, I'm not enamored with Drummond, and while I think there's a path for him to co-exist with Cousins, I definitely don't think he's a value pick at #5, and that's probably the biggest issue. But noise and hype will say that he deserves to be drafted there, because that's the thing that tends to fog up everyone's minds during May and June. So I'd just avoid him altogether--there's no way we can trade down to get him, unless something bizarre happens, and IMO we're not getting value with him at #5.
Barnes I've mentioned is a smallball PF who probably works best as an off-the-ball shooter. Think Richard Jefferson two-three years ago. I know, sad (or bad) comparison, but I'm just not high on this kid. We sorely need shooters, badly, but Barnes is overrated there, and creates this perception of it even though he isn't one. And at #5? No sirree.
Thomas Robinson is a guy that I'm just not sure about--on the one hand, I don't think he's all that, but on the other hand, David Lee and Paul Millsap were underhyped guys who thrived, and Robinson fits that role. I think he can be like Millsap, many have already compared the two, but I'm not going to guarantee that. We don't need a guy like that anyway, even though a guy with that sort of work ethic would be good for the team. Jumping jack shotblocker instead, and stuff.
Beal is a good short-term play if we needed shot creation and instant scoring, but five years from now we'll get tired of his game, he'll demand a toxic contract, get one, a new gunner PG arises from the draft, and he'll be a bit of yesterday's news. That's the fear. I really don't think he can play PG at all. And frankly, while I like him a lot for the first four years of his career I think, we don't need that sort of stuff when we have Thornton and Reke.
Kidd-Gilchrist is a top three pick, so I don't expect him to fall to us, but we can certainly use a guy who's unselfish, looks good at his position, has a strong work ethic, and can play lockdown defense. Actually, that's what I'd prefer--if he falls, grab him! If he doesn't, well, we can trade for him as one of the options. Wouldn't be a bad idea. We need great intangible guys on this team, rather than just keep stockpiling on young talent. If the coach is unable to motivate the guys, having fellow players to motivate makes the situation better.
I also like Terrence Jones--I actually don't believe he's a tweener, and judging from the ball skills and height combination I actually think he can develop into a matchup nightmare at the SF position. Hopefully we use him as a SF, and not as a PF, if we get him. While his jumper game needs serious work, I like his X's and O's type of stuff. Does the little things. Some will say #5, that's reaching for him, but I think he's a worthwhile investment. 5-6 years from now, he won't be a star, but he could be the guy who Ric Bucher and Marc Stein and whoever will write articles about being the unsung cog player in our magical playoff run. Alright, just joking, but you know...and I think we could trade down for him.
John Henson and Dion Waiters are guys I like, but like with Beal, there's no need for Waiters (Waiters is a way better passer than Beal, BTW) and as for Henson I like the shotblocking and rover length without picking up fouls. And the rebounding. The little things are what we need. But again, it's a trade down situation.
So my hope is that we don't sit on the pick.
1) Trade up for Kidd-Gilchrist
2) Trade down for Terrence Jones, and give Smart strict orders to develop him as an oversized SF
3) Trade down for John Henson
Barnes I've mentioned is a smallball PF who probably works best as an off-the-ball shooter. Think Richard Jefferson two-three years ago. I know, sad (or bad) comparison, but I'm just not high on this kid. We sorely need shooters, badly, but Barnes is overrated there, and creates this perception of it even though he isn't one. And at #5? No sirree.
Thomas Robinson is a guy that I'm just not sure about--on the one hand, I don't think he's all that, but on the other hand, David Lee and Paul Millsap were underhyped guys who thrived, and Robinson fits that role. I think he can be like Millsap, many have already compared the two, but I'm not going to guarantee that. We don't need a guy like that anyway, even though a guy with that sort of work ethic would be good for the team. Jumping jack shotblocker instead, and stuff.
Beal is a good short-term play if we needed shot creation and instant scoring, but five years from now we'll get tired of his game, he'll demand a toxic contract, get one, a new gunner PG arises from the draft, and he'll be a bit of yesterday's news. That's the fear. I really don't think he can play PG at all. And frankly, while I like him a lot for the first four years of his career I think, we don't need that sort of stuff when we have Thornton and Reke.
Kidd-Gilchrist is a top three pick, so I don't expect him to fall to us, but we can certainly use a guy who's unselfish, looks good at his position, has a strong work ethic, and can play lockdown defense. Actually, that's what I'd prefer--if he falls, grab him! If he doesn't, well, we can trade for him as one of the options. Wouldn't be a bad idea. We need great intangible guys on this team, rather than just keep stockpiling on young talent. If the coach is unable to motivate the guys, having fellow players to motivate makes the situation better.
I also like Terrence Jones--I actually don't believe he's a tweener, and judging from the ball skills and height combination I actually think he can develop into a matchup nightmare at the SF position. Hopefully we use him as a SF, and not as a PF, if we get him. While his jumper game needs serious work, I like his X's and O's type of stuff. Does the little things. Some will say #5, that's reaching for him, but I think he's a worthwhile investment. 5-6 years from now, he won't be a star, but he could be the guy who Ric Bucher and Marc Stein and whoever will write articles about being the unsung cog player in our magical playoff run. Alright, just joking, but you know...and I think we could trade down for him.
John Henson and Dion Waiters are guys I like, but like with Beal, there's no need for Waiters (Waiters is a way better passer than Beal, BTW) and as for Henson I like the shotblocking and rover length without picking up fouls. And the rebounding. The little things are what we need. But again, it's a trade down situation.
So my hope is that we don't sit on the pick.
1) Trade up for Kidd-Gilchrist
2) Trade down for Terrence Jones, and give Smart strict orders to develop him as an oversized SF
3) Trade down for John Henson
Maybe we should look into trading down and pickin up kendall marshall? people keep sayin "we dont need another scorer," so lets go the opposite, and get someone who can set up our scorers. Pure pg's are hard to find, and he could end up being invaluable, regardless of whether or not he's a super star caliber player. i suppose we would have to get rid of one or more of our guards, but this kid is special, i'd definitely be happy with him
I agree with you that he's special, and I would love to have him. But he's simply not a need. We have three players on the team right now that can play the PG position, 4 if you count Salmons. And, considering we have a huge hole at SF, we have little depth at PF, and Thompson is a restricted freeagent, I think thats the direction we need to look. This team needs balance, and peices that fit together properly. So ask yourself, based on what you've seen the last few years, what kind of team is this? Whats its identity? What style of BB does it play? After you figure that out, then ask yourself which players don't fit that identity. And don't avoid putting good players in that group. Sometimes a very good player is in the wrong place. Its not the teams fault, and its not his fault. But it does need to be remedied.
I would be happy with him too..
Bajaden,
I pretty much see everything as a need right now (except for center) because so far I only see Cousins as a guy that could help us to a winning season. Marshall is that special player that does not need a lot of shots and who can run an offense like no other that I have seen in years and years. He's definitely going to be a good pick whoever takes him in the late lottery.
Bajaden,
I pretty much see everything as a need right now (except for center) because so far I only see Cousins as a guy that could help us to a winning season. Marshall is that special player that does not need a lot of shots and who can run an offense like no other that I have seen in years and years. He's definitely going to be a good pick whoever takes him in the late lottery.
