Is it possible for the Kings to rent Dwight Howard ( Yeah, I know he'll leave )

I never said anything about FAa lining up to come here. I'm saying that one year in the playoffs, even if most will think it was all Dwight Howard that got us there, would still do wonders for what the average NBA player thinks of potentially joining the Kings. It's not going to make hundreds of them getting in line, but all we need is one all-star small forward with defensive skills and a great 3 point shot.

you are a fool if you think that the average NBA player doesn't know how good DMC is already. Thornton relentlessly attacking the basket? I didn't see much of that last season.

I really don't understand your logic. Yea Thomas Robinson is going to have a better shot at ROY playing how many minutes behind Cuz and Howard?
 
Yea Thomas Robinson is going to have a better shot at ROY playing how many minutes behind Cuz and Howard?
Anytime Cuz is off the floor, or if Cuz moves to center because Dwight is getting a rest, then T-Rob slides over to 4. He'd get plenty of minutes there. He'd also get quite a few minutes at SF, alongside Dwight and Cuz.
 
Anytime Cuz is off the floor, or if Cuz moves to center because Dwight is getting a rest, then T-Rob slides over to 4. He'd get plenty of minutes there. He'd also get quite a few minutes at SF, alongside Dwight and Cuz.

Dwight 2011-12 mpg: 38.3
DMC: 30.5 (will likely go up to at least 35 with less fouls)

ASSUMING we play a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 (which is unlikely) - that's 22.7 minutes at PF for Thomas Robinson.

Past 10 years ROYs mpg (rookie season)
Kyrie Irving - 30.5
Blake Griffin - 38.0
Tyreke Evans - 37.2
Derrick Rose - 37.0
Kevin Durant - 34.6
Brandon Roy -35.4
Chris Paul - 36.0
Emeka Okafor - 35.6
Lebron James - 39.5
Amare Stoudemire - 31.3

That's an average of 35.5 mpg.

So let's go over this again. You're going to have Thomas Robinson, a PF who doesn't have an outside shot or dribbling skills, play 13 minutes at SF next to Cuz and Dwight, essentially implying that Cuz dwight and Trob make up our starting frontcourt (I don't see any other way TRob plays 13 minutes next to both Cuz and Dwight). Let me give you a quote.

http://www.cowbellkingdom.com/2012/...teside-adapting-to-defensive-role/#more-13400
Can Robinson play small forward? [Bobby] Jackson says the Kings won’t use him at the 3 during summer league. He thinks Robinson is capable of possibly defending that position, but not any time soon. “That’s a hard position to defend,” said Jackson. “But he can do it, I think he can do it. But right now, he won’t be able to do it. To guard LeBron (James) and Carmelo Anthony? Nah.”

Mm, guess who Robinson would be matching up if he started at SF? Lebron James and Carmelo Anthony!

You are also saying that TRob (whose greatest asset at this point is probably rebounding), playing almost a third of his minutes out of position, and the other 2 thirds next to Dwight or Cousins (#1 and #5 in rpg 2011-2012 regular season) at all times, is going to put up good enough stats to win ROY.

Seriously do you even think through what you say?
 
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Considering this is one of the worst teams in the league, we have many holes to fill. Evans happens to be one of our most talented and versatile players who is capable of playing multiple positions. This is the reason why he has been shifted around so much. It's as simple as that. It's not that we don't know what to do with him. In the beginning of the season, we were under the impression that we had 2 solid SFs (Salmons and Outlaw). Unfortunately, these two players had argubably their worst seasons last year. Well lets possibly try Garcia at SF. To our dismay, he shot horribly last year from three and that is one of his few contributions to the team. So that leaves who? Evans. He is the only one left who is capable of filling the SF position adequately. It's confusing to me how you don't seem to comprehend that.

I don't think Evans is in the top 25 as of now, and I'm not sure why the top 25 is such a significant measurement of talent. He is 22. Keep that in mind. How many 22 year olds crack the top 25? Not many. If Evans gets a jumpshot, like Rose or Westbrook did, I see no reason why he can't be included in that list. Once his defenders have to respect his jumpshot, it will make it even easier for him to get by his man (as if it wasn't easy enough for him already). Now getting by his man more easily and hitting his open jumpshot is great, but it is not the entire story. We need to have good shooters around him to punish help defenders. If one of the main reasons for Evans dissapointing seasons was the opposing team stacking the paint, that blame doesn't all fall on Evans. His teammates need to make shots and make their competitors respect them as shooters, and if we don't have the right type of players around him that can't make shots, then Evans will be the one to suffer. By no means does that mean they can stop him, but teams would be able to contain him and our offense to a degree.

Evans is a SG who can play PG. I don't see why playing him in his natural position means we are "handicapping ourselves" or "wasting his talents." There are plenty of ball dominant SGs and non-ball dominant PGs. Again it is true that he doesn't have a jumpshot, but that is the major thing he is working on in the offseason. From what I have read, it sounds like he is taking it seriously and putting in the effort that it will take. So if he is able to develop some sort of jumpshot that automatically helps him as an off the ball player because it increases his chances at hitting a spot up jumper or a jumper off a screen. In addition, the one positive thing Evans gained from his experience by playing SF was learning how to play off the ball. Towards the end of the season, I liked the improvement I saw out of Evans in that department. He made numerous cuts through the paint or backdoor. If he does add that jumpshot, then you might see some off the ball screens set for him to get him a nice little mid range shot. He obviously was out of his element, but he seemed to improve as the experiment went on. By no means do I want him to continue to play SF, but it was just something I noticed.

You also question his basketball IQ and court awareness in terms of him playing PG. If we were to have him play PG, I think it would be best if we had another player who was a good playmaker such as Iguodala (I would say Williams, but he isn't a good 3pt shooter) next to him. I agree we can't rely on him entirely to run and facilitate our offense, but he is more than capable of sharing that duty with another player. Compared to many of the SGs in the league, his court vision and awareness are certainly above average (much better than Thornton).

I don't see how you can call his rookie campaign "fools gold." The next season, when he was plagued with injuries and teams had an entire season to figure him out, his stats were not too far off from his rookie season (-2.3 pts, -.5 reb, -.2 ast, 0 stl). He was essentially 18-5-5 his injured season. I know stats don't tell the entire story, but it shows there wasn't a significant dropoff. Then last season he began tweaking his shot. He didn't spend too much time on it, but he began the process. Then this year he returned to his 18-5-5 self and then was shifted to SF where his production dropped. Having to change coaches in the middle of the season is one thing. Having to learn a new position in the middle of the season is another. He was not set up for success by his organization.

It's obvious why his production dropped this season, and probalby explains why he is not in your "top 25" this season. Now Evans is fully focused on improving his jumpshot the entire offseason to help push him into that "unguardable" status and you say he is expendable? It just doesn't make sense.

Great post. I just hope those who find it so easy to lambast Evans will take the time to actually read it and think about it. :)
 
Great post. I just hope those who find it so easy to lambast Evans will take the time to actually read it and think about it. :)

Why thank you. It's been building up for some time now, and when Anthony1 began discussing Evans, I went off.

I hope all Evans haters do read it. I hope it brings a fresh perspective. I was actually looking forward to Anthony1's rebuttle, but I'll take him ignoring my post as a compliment. :p
 
Why thank you. It's been building up for some time now, and when Anthony1 began discussing Evans, I went off.

I hope all Evans haters do read it. I hope it brings a fresh perspective. I was actually looking forward to Anthony1's rebuttle, but I'll take him ignoring my post as a compliment. :p

I can't beat a dead horse. Different people have different opinions on Evans. I've repeatedly spelled out my take on Evans. Obviously, fans of Evans are going to hate my takes. It is, what it is. You can call me an Evans hater, but what I will be is a hater in the theory that Evans will eventually fit in with our team. He's still a very talented player, who's extremely young, and I know that he's our second best asset on the team. He's coming up for an extension, and with the crazy money being thrown around, I just don't think Evans is going to be worth any of that. I'd much rather some other team pay that. Of course, before then we have to get something for Evans. I've stated in a number of other threads that the best strategy with Evans is to put him back at PG, play him HUGE minutes, always have the ball in his hands, let him run the show. Inflate his numbers as much as possible leading up to the trade deadline. Showcase Evans talents to possible suitors. Trade him for the best asset we can get (preferably a SF with 3 point skills and good defense). Move on with our lives.

The other option is to carefully arrange a team around Evans, to try to downplay all of his negatives. Pay him Eric Gordon money.... yeah. That makes tons of sense.

Why go through all that trouble for a player who was never as good as we all thought he was (my opinion)
 
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Obviously, fans of Evans are going to hate my takes. It is, what it is. You can call me an Evans hater, but what I will be is a hater in the theory that Evans will eventually fit in with our team.

It's not that we hate your takes. We just disagree with them. The lack of looking at the circumstances and the scenarios is what causes people to question you. Some people follow their gut feelings and that's fine, but you can't logically debate with those feelings. The facts lead to Evans becoming a success in this league. This is why you don't see many of the senior, respected members on this board backing you up. They see and understand the circumstances and take everything into account. I would hope one day you start seeing things in this light.

He's still a very talented player, who's extremely young, and I know that he's our second best asset on the team. He's coming up for an extension, and with the crazy money being thrown around, I just don't think Evans is going to be worth any of that. I'd much rather some other team pay that.

It's been made known that with the current CBA that teams are spending a lot more this offseason. The CBA is supposed to ease into eliminating the crazy spending so as time goes by we "should" see less and less of this type of spending. If Evans does show improvement this season, I don't see why he wouldn't deserve a large deal. He is a good player who has the potential to be great. I don't see why giving a 23 year old that deal is such a bad thing.

The other option is to carefully arrange a team around Evans, to try to downplay all of his negatives. Pay him Eric Gordon money.... yeah. That makes tons of sense.

Why go through all that trouble for a player who was never as good as we all thought he was (my opinion)

You're right it would make a lot more sense to build around Thornton and Thomas and downplay all of there negatives. Evans has some weaknesses but not nearly as many as Thomas and Thornton. Besides it is not even about ignoring the weaknesses. It is about complimenting those weaknesses with fellow players. Cousins isn't a mobile big who can block shots so why would it make sense to build around him? Because we can find a player to play alongside him and compliment/hide his weaknesses. For the sake of arguing though, what weaknesses does Evans have? He is a good scorer, rebounder, passer, ballhandler, and defender. His only weaknesses are his jumpshot (which he is working hard on this offseason) and playing off the ball (which a jumpshot will help with. In addition, he showed improvement at the end of last season making cuts through the defense). He has the ability to be an all around player. Just give him time.
 
ok, first off, let me explain my thinking. Before we get into whether or not such a scenario would even be possible. The idea behind renting dwight howard for one year, is the fact that we aren't going to end up totally empty handed when the one year is up.

Howard will command a max deal wherever he goes, so you're virtually guaranteed a sign and trade deal next summer.


Still, why rent him, when you know the draft picks and players that you get back won't really be worth jack squat ?

That's a good question, and i can answer it a couple of ways. I think the experience that isaiah, mt, t-rob and cuz gets from it, will be absolutely invaluable. The kings would be guaranteed playoff bound, which would do a lot for the overall health of the franchise. Sure, dwight would leave, but that one year of going into the playoffs, perhaps shaking things up a bit in the western conference, would be invaluable to 4 future (and present) cornerstones of our franchise.

You might have noticed that tyreke, jason and jimmer were left out of the picture. Well, obviously, we would have to send tyreke and jason, along with a bevy of "unprotected" no.1 picks. And jimmer. The downside, we never get reke and jason back, and the draft picks that we are giving away would be way more valuable than the draft picks we get from the nets. Plus, we would most likely end up with just some journeymen type role players from the nets in the sign and trade next summer. Nothing equaling reke and jt. I could pretty much care less about jimmer leaving.


So, we offer up:

Tyreke evans
jason thompson
jimmer fredette
future 1st round pick
future 1st round pick


we receive:

Dwight howard
whatever contracts that orlando wants to dump on us

n o
 
Ok, first off, let me explain my thinking. Before we get into whether or not such a scenario would even be possible. The idea behind renting Dwight Howard for one year, is the fact that we aren't going to end up totally empty handed when the one year is up.

Howard will command a MAX deal wherever he goes, so you're virtually guaranteed a sign and trade deal next summer.


Still, why rent him, when you know the draft picks and players that you get back won't really be worth jack squat ?

That's a good question, and I can answer it a couple of ways. I think the experience that Isaiah, MT, T-Rob and Cuz gets from it, will be absolutely invaluable. The Kings would be guaranteed playoff bound, which would do a lot for the overall health of the franchise. Sure, Dwight would leave, but that one year of going into the playoffs, perhaps shaking things up a bit in the Western Conference, would be invaluable to 4 future (and present) cornerstones of our franchise.

You might have noticed that Tyreke, Jason and Jimmer were left out of the picture. Well, obviously, we would have to send Tyreke and Jason, along with a bevy of "unprotected" No.1 picks. And Jimmer. The downside, we never get Reke and Jason back, and the draft picks that we are giving away would be WAY more valuable than the draft picks we get from the Nets. Plus, we would most likely end up with just some journeymen type role players from the Nets in the sign and trade next summer. Nothing equaling Reke and JT. I could pretty much care less about Jimmer leaving.


So, we offer up:

Tyreke Evans
Jason Thompson
Jimmer Fredette
Future 1st round pick
Future 1st round pick


we receive:

Dwight Howard
whatever contracts that Orlando wants to dump on us

I honestly think we could get Dwight for less. Evans + Thompson and one pick might do it, considering we'd also be taking on bad contracts and considering that Dwight's value is dramatically lowered in the circumstances. I also don't think any of the other teams in the running- save the F*kers, can offer anything better. And I honestly think Dwight might like the idea of becoming the Savior of Sacramento, opening a new arena, and battling Kobe and Bynum every year. While nothing Dwight says can really be held true, I don't think he's necessarily a big market guy- I think it just happened the Brooklyn offered the best situation.

Another HUGE plus to this trade is that it would probably allow the Maloofs to sell, and quickly. The value of the franchise instantly grows enormously, and I think it could be the shot in the arm to get the arena done.

Cousins-Howard would run the league for the next decade. Howard gets all of his wishes fulfilled: plays on a super team, becomes "the man," and has legions of adoring fans around Northern California. The trade could increase the team value by up to 20%http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2011/01/26/the-nbas-most-valuable-teams-2/, which means the Maloofs get a windfall to sell to a new billionaire owner. We have a proven GM who built contenders before. New owners means shiny new arena and Howard plays the all-star game in front of a home crowd. The only negative for Howard is the name of the city, and I think he could live with being in Sacramento if it means he can win rings as the man rather than being stuck in mediocrity.

If Petrie sent out feelers to gauge Howard's willingness to play in Sacramento, I think it could work. When I first saw this thread I didn't even click it, but thinking about it, it makes too much sense. We're the perfect destination: we have the assets Orlando wants (young talent, picks and cap space) and the right situation for D12.

GET IT DONE
 
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I can't believe that anyone is actually discussing this. This ranks up there as one of the most ridiculous trade proposals I've ever heard. Not are we giving away three players, and I mean giving away, were also giving away our future in two 1st round picks. Go back and study what the Kings did when they first arrived here. They traded two starters and a 1st round pick for Derek Smith, who ended up having bad knee's and was a bust. They traded for Ralph Sampson, who had two bad knee's. When the smoke cleared, the once promising team was gone, and so was the future, because we had traded away some 1st round picks. It took the Kings around 7 years to recover from that. I certainly have no interest in repeating that experience.

While your giving away two 1st round picks, do you remember that we still owe Cleveland a 1st round pick. So that would be three 1st round picks in the future gone!!!!!!!! Just what the hell are you smoking?
 
I can't believe that anyone is actually discussing this. This ranks up there as one of the most ridiculous trade proposals I've ever heard. Not are we giving away three players, and I mean giving away, were also giving away our future in two 1st round picks. Go back and study what the Kings did when they first arrived here. They traded two starters and a 1st round pick for Derek Smith, who ended up having bad knee's and was a bust. They traded for Ralph Sampson, who had two bad knee's. When the smoke cleared, the once promising team was gone, and so was the future, because we had traded away some 1st round picks. It took the Kings around 7 years to recover from that. I certainly have no interest in repeating that experience.

While your giving away two 1st round picks, do you remember that we still owe Cleveland a 1st round pick. So that would be three 1st round picks in the future gone!!!!!!!! Just what the hell are you smoking?

Obviously we don't do this if he's not going to stay. But I think we have the right situation and could get him to stay.
 
I can't believe that anyone is actually discussing this. This ranks up there as one of the most ridiculous trade proposals I've ever heard. Not are we giving away three players, and I mean giving away, were also giving away our future in two 1st round picks. Go back and study what the Kings did when they first arrived here. They traded two starters and a 1st round pick for Derek Smith, who ended up having bad knee's and was a bust. They traded for Ralph Sampson, who had two bad knee's. When the smoke cleared, the once promising team was gone, and so was the future, because we had traded away some 1st round picks. It took the Kings around 7 years to recover from that. I certainly have no interest in repeating that experience.

While your giving away two 1st round picks, do you remember that we still owe Cleveland a 1st round pick. So that would be three 1st round picks in the future gone!!!!!!!! Just what the hell are you smoking?

Huffing some paint waiting for the dwightmare on elm street to start. Cant wait to see what unfolds if our owners are foolish enough to gamble on this one
 
Huffing some paint waiting for the dwightmare on elm street to start. Cant wait to see what unfolds if our owners are foolish enough to gamble on this one

I'll tell you what unfolds: they turn around and sell since they can get another $50MM if Dwight extends.
 
And you really think this team is better than what we have right now?!? Really? You take Lopez and Wallace over Cousins and Evans?!? I don't care about the 3 first round picks at all. They would have Deron, Johnson and Dwight. Those will be 3 late first round picks, and we just traded Demarcus and Tyreke for them...

We're lucky you're not the GM. Just to be clear, I believe DMC will be the best center in the league in his prime, I would not trade him straight up for Howard.

You might not think that I wouldnt be a good GM but to get a top 5 player that doesnt want to be in Sacramento and you get rid of some of that extra players. You can easily rebuild the Kings. Your adding Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, Glen Davis and Howard. Then when you lose Howard, you not just going to let him go in free agency for nothing. Your going to trade him for a huge amount back Your going to ask him if he wants to sign a contract with the Kings. If he says NO, then you can look at all the teams that want him. Golden State offered Klay Thompson, Curry and Lee for him. Brooklyn offered 3 1st round picks, Lopez and some other players for Howard.

The best deal is Houston's Houston wants to trade all their young kids in this years draft plus position players ( Kevin Martin, Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons and Marcus Morris, as well as the draft rights to Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and Terrence Jones (all first-round draft picks) to Orlando in order to get Howard. Now if you look at that group, you will be a better team if you traded for him than you getting rid of Evans, Jimmer, Thompson and picks. You have to give up something to get something.

Just think if you traded for Howard and you got all those players back

PG- Isiah Thomas
SG- Jason Richardson
SF- Parsons
PF- T Rob
C- Glen Davis

Then in the summer, you look for a center.

Even if you traded Evans, Thompson, Jimmer and 3 number 1's you still would have a better team.

PG- Thomas
SG- Jason Richardson/Thornton/Martin
SF- Parsons/Richardson
PF- T Rob/Davis
C- Cousins

Some other small trades would have to be made but your looking at a 6th or 7th seed in the playoffs.
 
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I can't believe that anyone is actually discussing this. This ranks up there as one of the most ridiculous trade proposals I've ever heard. Not are we giving away three players, and I mean giving away, were also giving away our future in two 1st round picks. Go back and study what the Kings did when they first arrived here. They traded two starters and a 1st round pick for Derek Smith, who ended up having bad knee's and was a bust. They traded for Ralph Sampson, who had two bad knee's. When the smoke cleared, the once promising team was gone, and so was the future, because we had traded away some 1st round picks. It took the Kings around 7 years to recover from that. I certainly have no interest in repeating that experience.

While your giving away two 1st round picks, do you remember that we still owe Cleveland a 1st round pick. So that would be three 1st round picks in the future gone!!!!!!!! Just what the hell are you smoking?

This! Talk about "fools gold!" :rolleyes:
 
.......... and it's got legs!!!!! TDOS or rampant youthful imagination with a heavy dose of video game. I've got to come up with a 6 team deal so we can discuss it.

Why 6?! Why limit yourself?! Make it 10, its far more interesting and way too cool :cool:

But make sure you get a SG that can shoot since you know that's what they are supposed to do because the position label shooting guard says so! ;)
 
Why 6?! Why limit yourself?! Make it 10, its far more interesting and way too cool :cool:

But make sure you get a SG that can shoot since you know that's what they are supposed to do because the position label shooting guard says so! ;)

Here's what I'm proposing: a 30 team trade that will eventually net us a line-up of

Cuz
Howard (resigned of course)
Lebron
Wade
CP3 (also re-signed)
 
Here's what I'm proposing: a 30 team trade that will eventually net us a line-up of

Cuz
Howard (resigned of course)
Lebron
Wade
CP3 (also re-signed)

Not sure that would take 30 teams. Maybe you need a bench also. Now THAT just might get you to 30 teams. :)


I'm holding my head in shame that I limited myself to a 6 team trade.
 
Back to the game, this league play will not show what Harrison Barnes can do as defense is not high on the list. I want to see what he can do aganist Iggy or something like that. Really looking forward to seeing TRob. Loved a comment I heard him say on a video: "In high school I just ran back and forth on the court and shot but now I have to learn how to play basketball." Now.That.Is.True!
 
You might not think that I wouldnt be a good GM but to get a top 5 player that doesnt want to be in Sacramento and you get rid of some of that extra players. You can easily rebuild the Kings. Your adding Chris Duhon, Jason Richardson, Glen Davis and Howard. Then when you lose Howard, you not just going to let him go in free agency for nothing. Your going to trade him for a huge amount back Your going to ask him if he wants to sign a contract with the Kings. If he says NO, then you can look at all the teams that want him. Golden State offered Klay Thompson, Curry and Lee for him. Brooklyn offered 3 1st round picks, Lopez and some other players for Howard.

The best deal is Houston's Houston wants to trade all their young kids in this years draft plus position players ( Kevin Martin, Patrick Patterson, Chandler Parsons and Marcus Morris, as well as the draft rights to Jeremy Lamb, Royce White and Terrence Jones (all first-round draft picks) to Orlando in order to get Howard. Now if you look at that group, you will be a better team if you traded for him than you getting rid of Evans, Jimmer, Thompson and picks. You have to give up something to get something.

Just think if you traded for Howard and you got all those players back

PG- Isiah Thomas
SG- Jason Richardson
SF- Parsons
PF- T Rob
C- Glen Davis

Then in the summer, you look for a center.

Even if you traded Evans, Thompson, Jimmer and 3 number 1's you still would have a better team.

PG- Thomas
SG- Jason Richardson/Thornton/Martin
SF- Parsons/Richardson
PF- T Rob/Davis
C- Cousins

Some other small trades would have to be made but your looking at a 6th or 7th seed in the playoffs.

And why in the world would any team want to give us all that when he can WALK?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Hey, let's give up half our frikin team for half a season of Dwight Howard!

Or even if they are willing to give that much, why wouldn't that team just trade directly with Orlando and get a full season of Dwight in training camp etc, with a better shot at convincing him to stay?

Sometimes I just feel like the stupidity level in the world has reached new levels.
 
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