I'm sorry coach smart what did you say?

Thomas is the only point guard on the roster, he's one of the few leaders the Kings have, and Smart pointed out last night he's got a good relationship with Cousins, and he's really helping the Kings develop Cousins and calm him down when he's flying off the rails. The offense was a mess before he stepped in. Smart doesn't want to play Evans at 3, but he's reached the conclusion that Thomas at point over Evans is needed for the overall development of the team - meaning both the development of the other players and playing winning team basketball. You can debate it all you like, but people smarter than us and very invested in Evans have reached the conclusion that IT must start.

At that point, you've got two shooting guards and no small forwards. Those two shooting guards are both young and need to grow by playing. They are two of our three best players. I don't see why you stunt the growth of one but putting them on the bench and cutting down their time. If this team had a decent three man or was gunning for the playoffs, then fine.

But at this point, the Kings need both Thornton and Evans to grow as much as they can. Evans needs to figure out that he can't just live in the paint and start taking mid range jumpers and then making them. Playing him at the 3 doesn't hurt that process. He can't guard those guys, but the Kings don't guard anybody anyhow and solving the Evans puzzle is more important at this point of the season than wins and losses.

For this season it makes sense. When the Kings get a passable 3 man and they are going for wins, Thornton needs to go to the bench. Right now, the Kings need to figure out whether Evans is worth paying big bucks in a few years, or if they should flip him and roll with Thornton at 2. Failing to get the answer to those questions to play T-Will at 3 for a few meaningless games makes little sense.
 
Thomas is the only point guard on the roster, he's one of the few leaders the Kings have, and Smart pointed out last night he's got a good relationship with Cousins, and he's really helping the Kings develop Cousins and calm him down when he's flying off the rails. The offense was a mess before he stepped in. Smart doesn't want to play Evans at 3, but he's reached the conclusion that Thomas at point over Evans is needed for the overall development of the team - meaning both the development of the other players and playing winning team basketball. You can debate it all you like, but people smarter than us and very invested in Evans have reached the conclusion that IT must start.

At that point, you've got two shooting guards and no small forwards. Those two shooting guards are both young and need to grow by playing. They are two of our three best players. I don't see why you stunt the growth of one but putting them on the bench and cutting down their time. If this team had a decent three man or was gunning for the playoffs, then fine.

But at this point, the Kings need both Thornton and Evans to grow as much as they can. Evans needs to figure out that he can't just live in the paint and start taking mid range jumpers and then making them. Playing him at the 3 doesn't hurt that process. He can't guard those guys, but the Kings don't guard anybody anyhow and solving the Evans puzzle is more important at this point of the season than wins and losses.

For this season it makes sense. When the Kings get a passable 3 man and they are going for wins, Thornton needs to go to the bench. Right now, the Kings need to figure out whether Evans is worth paying big bucks in a few years, or if they should flip him and roll with Thornton at 2. Failing to get the answer to those questions to play T-Will at 3 for a few meaningless games makes little sense.

Pretty much how I see it as well. I think we can conclude that Tyreke has gotten the message that his future in the league is going to depend on him developing his mid-range game. All the other fears and confusion about his role or what he should be are all just a waste of time. I would also add that he needs to get better at playing in a team defense concept. He is a pretty darned good individual defender, but often seems to not recognize where he should be on defensive rotations.
 
Thomas is the only point guard on the roster, he's one of the few leaders the Kings have, and Smart pointed out last night he's got a good relationship with Cousins, and he's really helping the Kings develop Cousins and calm him down when he's flying off the rails. The offense was a mess before he stepped in. Smart doesn't want to play Evans at 3, but he's reached the conclusion that Thomas at point over Evans is needed for the overall development of the team - meaning both the development of the other players and playing winning team basketball. You can debate it all you like, but people smarter than us and very invested in Evans have reached the conclusion that IT must start.

At that point, you've got two shooting guards and no small forwards. Those two shooting guards are both young and need to grow by playing. They are two of our three best players. I don't see why you stunt the growth of one but putting them on the bench and cutting down their time. If this team had a decent three man or was gunning for the playoffs, then fine.

But at this point, the Kings need both Thornton and Evans to grow as much as they can. Evans needs to figure out that he can't just live in the paint and start taking mid range jumpers and then making them. Playing him at the 3 doesn't hurt that process. He can't guard those guys, but the Kings don't guard anybody anyhow and solving the Evans puzzle is more important at this point of the season than wins and losses.

For this season it makes sense. When the Kings get a passable 3 man and they are going for wins, Thornton needs to go to the bench. Right now, the Kings need to figure out whether Evans is worth paying big bucks in a few years, or if they should flip him and roll with Thornton at 2. Failing to get the answer to those questions to play T-Will at 3 for a few meaningless games makes little sense.

I don't disagree with much of what you said. I said from the beginning, that putting Evans at the SF position takes away all the strengths he has at the SG and PG position. Here's the problem as I see it. And I'm looking at the bigger picture going forward. We seem to be a team of reaction when it comes to roster changes, or improvement, as you will, instead of a team of action. By that, I mean we seem to make decisions on the fly, and then after finding out what the collateral damage is from that decision, make the next decision. In other words, our decisions seem to be based mostly on hindesight.

I would liken it to taking your car to a mechanic to find out what the problem is, and then the mechanic just starts replacing parts, without really knowing the cause of the problem. Eventually, he may stumble on the source, but in the meantime, your paying for a lot of parts you don't need. To this extent, I don't really blame Smart. He inherited this roster of ill fitting parts. He needed continuity on the floor, so he put IT in as the PG. To a large extent, its made a positive difference. But by doing so, he left Tyreke without a position. Logic tells you that the most obvious position would be SG. But there stands Thorton, who just signed a nice contract, and probably looks at himself as one of the best players on the team. So to avoid any more turmoil than necessary, Tyreke goes to the SF position where no one has locked down the job.

In other words, he didn't go there because it was the best position for him (its not), but because it was convenient, and wouldn't ruffle anyone else's feathers. From an on court social point of view, its a great move. But from an on court functional point of view, its a bad idea. But in fairness to Smart, he didn't have many options available to him. If indeed, Tyreke is the future SG on the team, then that means Thornton has to go to the bench. And I'm fine with that. The question is, is Thornton fine with that. Hard to say. Thornton has the warrior mentality, and I love that in a player. However, that can also be a players worse enemy if he can't translate that energy into a team concept. And I believe Thornton struggles with that, and sometimes at crucial moments of the game.

I also believe that Tyreke is struggling with adapting to his new role. Thus the inconsistency in his game at the moment. But, I also think he's trying his best to do whats asked of him. When you make major changes in your game, whether physical, mental, or both, you usually take a couple of steps backward before moving forward again. Sometimes putting a player with potential in a very uncomfortable position, causes them to realize their deficiences in real time as opposed to, just on paper. How they respond can determine the rest of their careers.

Anyway, I'll withhold judgement on Smart. I like a lot of the things he's doing. I want to see what he does when he has a more balanced roster. I agree that he's thrown out some very strange rotations at times. But at the same time, while being accused of playing small ball, which I have no love for, he's also increased Cousins minutes as the season has gone on. He reinserted Thompson back into the starting lineup. His problem as I see it, is that his first big off the bench is 6'6" Hayes, and then zippo! Once you get past Cuz and JT, this team is currently devoid of big men. No offense to Hasson, who apparently Smart has decided to bring along slowly. And I agree with that approach. He needs to build Hasson's confidence, and you don't do that by putting him in against Dwight Howard. Yeah, I know, thats an exaggeration, but it make my point.

In closing, this team doesn't need to be ripped apart, but it does need some serious tweeking, with additions. This is a big offseason coming up. I think the fans in sacramento have been extremely patient. They deserve to be rewarded for that patience, and sooner than later.
 
Thomas is the only point guard on the roster, he's one of the few leaders the Kings have, and Smart pointed out last night he's got a good relationship with Cousins, and he's really helping the Kings develop Cousins and calm him down when he's flying off the rails. The offense was a mess before he stepped in. Smart doesn't want to play Evans at 3, but he's reached the conclusion that Thomas at point over Evans is needed for the overall development of the team - meaning both the development of the other players and playing winning team basketball. You can debate it all you like, but people smarter than us and very invested in Evans have reached the conclusion that IT must start.

At that point, you've got two shooting guards and no small forwards. Those two shooting guards are both young and need to grow by playing. They are two of our three best players. I don't see why you stunt the growth of one but putting them on the bench and cutting down their time. If this team had a decent three man or was gunning for the playoffs, then fine.

But at this point, the Kings need both Thornton and Evans to grow as much as they can. Evans needs to figure out that he can't just live in the paint and start taking mid range jumpers and then making them. Playing him at the 3 doesn't hurt that process. He can't guard those guys, but the Kings don't guard anybody anyhow and solving the Evans puzzle is more important at this point of the season than wins and losses.

For this season it makes sense. When the Kings get a passable 3 man and they are going for wins, Thornton needs to go to the bench. Right now, the Kings need to figure out whether Evans is worth paying big bucks in a few years, or if they should flip him and roll with Thornton at 2. Failing to get the answer to those questions to play T-Will at 3 for a few meaningless games makes little sense.

I can agree with this. I have said since Thornton came to life in Sacramento that he and Tyreke need to be starter/high-minute-6th-man.
 
I don't disagree with much of what you said. I said from the beginning, that putting Evans at the SF position takes away all the strengths he has at the SG and PG position. Here's the problem as I see it. And I'm looking at the bigger picture going forward. We seem to be a team of reaction when it comes to roster changes, or improvement, as you will, instead of a team of action. By that, I mean we seem to make decisions on the fly, and then after finding out what the collateral damage is from that decision, make the next decision. In other words, our decisions seem to be based mostly on hindesight.

I would liken it to taking your car to a mechanic to find out what the problem is, and then the mechanic just starts replacing parts, without really knowing the cause of the problem. Eventually, he may stumble on the source, but in the meantime, your paying for a lot of parts you don't need. To this extent, I don't really blame Smart. He inherited this roster of ill fitting parts. He needed continuity on the floor, so he put IT in as the PG. To a large extent, its made a positive difference. But by doing so, he left Tyreke without a position. Logic tells you that the most obvious position would be SG. But there stands Thorton, who just signed a nice contract, and probably looks at himself as one of the best players on the team. So to avoid any more turmoil than necessary, Tyreke goes to the SF position where no one has locked down the job.

In other words, he didn't go there because it was the best position for him (its not), but because it was convenient, and wouldn't ruffle anyone else's feathers. From an on court social point of view, its a great move. But from an on court functional point of view, its a bad idea. But in fairness to Smart, he didn't have many options available to him. If indeed, Tyreke is the future SG on the team, then that means Thornton has to go to the bench. And I'm fine with that. The question is, is Thornton fine with that. Hard to say. Thornton has the warrior mentality, and I love that in a player. However, that can also be a players worse enemy if he can't translate that energy into a team concept. And I believe Thornton struggles with that, and sometimes at crucial moments of the game.

I also believe that Tyreke is struggling with adapting to his new role. Thus the inconsistency in his game at the moment. But, I also think he's trying his best to do whats asked of him. When you make major changes in your game, whether physical, mental, or both, you usually take a couple of steps backward before moving forward again. Sometimes putting a player with potential in a very uncomfortable position, causes them to realize their deficiences in real time as opposed to, just on paper. How they respond can determine the rest of their careers.

Anyway, I'll withhold judgement on Smart. I like a lot of the things he's doing. I want to see what he does when he has a more balanced roster. I agree that he's thrown out some very strange rotations at times. But at the same time, while being accused of playing small ball, which I have no love for, he's also increased Cousins minutes as the season has gone on. He reinserted Thompson back into the starting lineup. His problem as I see it, is that his first big off the bench is 6'6" Hayes, and then zippo! Once you get past Cuz and JT, this team is currently devoid of big men. No offense to Hasson, who apparently Smart has decided to bring along slowly. And I agree with that approach. He needs to build Hasson's confidence, and you don't do that by putting him in against Dwight Howard. Yeah, I know, thats an exaggeration, but it make my point.

In closing, this team doesn't need to be ripped apart, but it does need some serious tweeking, with additions. This is a big offseason coming up. I think the fans in sacramento have been extremely patient. They deserve to be rewarded for that patience, and sooner than later.


Excellent post. I think this offseason is really a make or break one for us. If we don't make the right moves and we keep jerking Reke around, we may find ourselves with Reke on another team and DMC will likely follow with nothing to show for it. We need to be in the hunt for the 8th seed at the end of next year. If we are not, I have a feeling many things are going to change.
 
Babe....I got you babe...

If anyone can point to where Smart said he's forcing Reke at the 3 out of necessity, then I'll be able to stomach it as much as I have to. What we have on record is Smart saying Tyreke isn't a SF, yet he plays him there. Another season like this one, and Evans will bolt, and we'll be another step back, marveling at the fact that we're scoring 110 points a game, yet not sniffing the playoffs.
 
Babe....I got you babe...

If anyone can point to where Smart said he's forcing Reke at the 3 out of necessity, then I'll be able to stomach it as much as I have to. What we have on record is Smart saying Tyreke isn't a SF, yet he plays him there. Another season like this one, and Evans will bolt, and we'll be another step back, marveling at the fact that we're scoring 110 points a game, yet not sniffing the playoffs.

It's using common sense for the information we have available to us. When Francisco Garcia is the best SF on the roster (who's not even a SF) you know your team is in big big trouble at the 3 spot. While Tyreke is playing out of position, it's not out of realm of possibility to think he could succeed there (Paul Pierce, Andre Iggy anyone?) Where I'd get concerned is if/when we acquire a real SF of the MKG, AK47, Barnes variety and Smart continues to play Tyreke at the 3. The same goes for the bigs. Until that point however, I'm giving him a pass until he doesn't have a flawed roster to work with.
 
So the answer is no, which leads me to believe its a proclivity towards his small ball nature instead of long term growth.
 
Babe....I got you babe...

If anyone can point to where Smart said he's forcing Reke at the 3 out of necessity, then I'll be able to stomach it as much as I have to. What we have on record is Smart saying Tyreke isn't a SF, yet he plays him there. Another season like this one, and Evans will bolt, and we'll be another step back, marveling at the fact that we're scoring 110 points a game, yet not sniffing the playoffs.

What would Smart have to gain by publicly saying Evans is playing SF by necessity? He'd be completely throwing Salmons and Garcia under the bus all while building excuses for Evans when he's struggling ... "Well, I'm not a SF anyways so if I play bad I can blame the position I'm playing".

And Evans may even be right if he came to that conclusion, but I don't like that mind set, and I certainly don't want our head coach planting that seed.

I firmly believe that this problem is a 2011-2012 season problem. We don't have a balanced roster. We don't have a starting small forward, so we are forced to play another one of our guards in that spot.

People need to stop pretending like Evans was lighting it up as a point guard, or that we were winning or playing good defense with him in that spot. That isn't to say I don't want to see him there again with a different cast of players, but let's not look back at the 'Evans at PG' days as a success, because is wasn't.

Let's remember that this team tried as hard as any other team to sign AK47 this off season. With JT playing how he's playing, I would have to imagine that Cousins-Thompson-AK would be starting right now with two of Evans/MT/Thomas. Of course, that didn't happen, but that one move would have changed us from a small team to a big team. ONE MOVE WE TRIED TO MAKE.

I say all this to say that I don't think we want to play 'small ball'. It just so happens that our best players at every position are undersized (and yes, I do think Evans is our best SF even if he isn't an SF).

The roster balance issues are real though. We clearly don't have the right mix of offensive/defensive personnel.
 
The problem with playing him out of position is that now you've wasted another year of development, regardless of the clear roster flaws. That points to chasing wins (which we haven't done) over player development. I'd rather develop the players at their natural positions, and plug in an ineffective SF Salmons. We're not winning with small ball, and the organization is doing a great job of giving Evans the Alex Smith treatment.
 
The problem with playing him out of position is that now you've wasted another year of development, regardless of the clear roster flaws. That points to chasing wins (which we haven't done) over player development. I'd rather develop the players at their natural positions, and plug in an ineffective SF Salmons. We're not winning with small ball, and the organization is doing a great job of giving Evans the Alex Smith treatment.

The SG and SF spots are fairly similar in terms of the offense. They are pretty interchangeable. On defense is where that could be a problem if there is a big athletic SF to cover. But that problem exists whether it's Reke or Salmons taking the role. Myself, I would have just committed to playing Donte at the SF spot as he seems to be able to defend probably any SF thrown out there. I don't know if it's a lack of faith in Green or he isn't following direction or they've already decided Donte isn't going to be with the team past this summer.

In any case, it's on Reke to work on the things he needs to continue his growth. He either needs to do that now for this team or wait until his next team demands that of him.
 
Bajaden, I think you're exactly right about the way our front office makes roster decisions reactively rather than proactively. I think that's always been the case with Petrie. Adelman had a system which guided roster decisions while he was here but since then we've been drifting about like a boat without a rudder as each new coach stumbles to impose their will and then watches it fail to get results. For instance, we drafted Tyreke because he was the best player available but we forced him to play PG because we already had Martin. While Tyreke was injured last season we picked up Thornton and let him shoot as much as he wanted. The result was a big contract in the off-season and a problematic backcourt pairing. Way back in January Keith Smart insisted he was going to help Tyreke become the best PG possible but Salmons subsequently sucked his way out of the rotation and Isaiah forced his way in and now we're trying to play Tyreke at SF. Why not play Tyreke at the position he's clearly best suited for and then adjust the roster from there?

And that's my biggest problem with Keith Smart right now. If he were really the best coach for this team going forward he would have looked at our roster, found a way to maximize his players' talents, assigned roles, and started teaching. With the exception of Demarcus Cousins, that hasn't happened. Where I differ from you though is that I don't think another off-season is going to easily repair the damage and get us back on the right track, and here's why:

Every decision the front office made this off-season, aside from drafting Isaiah Thomas which was probably an afterthought, has backfired horribly. And it isn't even surprising, none of it. We knew that keeping Westphal was a bad idea. Some of us knew that Hickson was a high-usage big man with an aversion to defense and a bizarre sense of entitlement. We knew Salmons was a black hole on offense who's a good defender at SG but a limited one at SF. We knew Jimmer was a gunner in college who played terrible defense. We knew Thornton and Tyreke had played very few games together last year and the results were not encouraging. We knew that losing our defensive anchor in exchange for an undersized scrapper had badly diminished our size advantage. I posted all of this right after the draft (with the exception of the Chuck Hayes wrinkle) and got eviscerated over it, but there it is. It happened.

So in hindsight now, there's two possible conclusions I could draw from this. One is that our front office is some combination of incompetent, inadequately financed, or dangerously enamored with high-risk/low-reward deals. If that's the case I have no faith whatsoever that the same group of people is going to somehow morph into an intelligent decision-making unit one off-season later. The other possible conclusion, and the one that I hope is true however damning it may be, is that they decided to hedge their bets and set themselves up for an awful season with the expectation that a move to Anaheim or franchise sale was going to happen sometime soon. If that were the case than they could now reverse course and start making productive decisions rather than counter-productive ones since an arena deal is moving forward to keep the team in Sacramento.

The baffling decision to extend Keith Smart's contract for another season after only a few games doesn't give me much hope though. I see that decision as overreacting to Demarcus Cousins' affinity for Smart, as if keeping Cousins happy is more important the building a coherent team and winning games. Still thinking reactively it seems.
 
The problem with playing him out of position is that now you've wasted another year of development, regardless of the clear roster flaws. That points to chasing wins (which we haven't done) over player development. I'd rather develop the players at their natural positions, and plug in an ineffective SF Salmons. We're not winning with small ball, and the organization is doing a great job of giving Evans the Alex Smith treatment.


I guess the natural position to ask, is what is Tyreke's natural position? Its easier with Thornton. AT 6'3", and no real PG abilities or inclinations, he has to be a SG. And, and undersized SG. My position is that until the Kings have at least one more experienced big on the team thats 6'10" or taller and they have a legit starting SF thats over 6'7", and then Smart still goes to small ball, I'm going to withhold my judgement. The problem he has right now, is that after Cuz and JT, the two tallest players on the team are Donte and Outlaw. Excuse me if I don't get excited about either of them. Although Donte has been playing better this year.

It just so happens that the best players on the team not named Cousins and Thompson, are of the small variety. So its hard for me to condemm Smart when his options are limited. To be honest, there are times when I think Smart is somewhere between having few options, and tanking. Make no mistake, I'm not giving him a grade A endorsement. There are things that I don't like. But I'm willing to give him a chance with a wait and see approach.

By the way, I wasn't extremely happy with the pick of Terrence Williams. Not because of his abilities, but because of his past problems that have followed him through college and into the NBA. Having said that, I'm impressed so far. He's shooting the ball better than I can ever remember. He's always been a great athlete and a good defender. And to be honest, if he has his head on straight, he's a better overall player than Thornton. Big if though. So far, so good.
 
By the way, I wasn't extremely happy with the pick of Terrence Williams. Not because of his abilities, but because of his past problems that have followed him through college and into the NBA. Having said that, I'm impressed so far. He's shooting the ball better than I can ever remember. He's always been a great athlete and a good defender. And to be honest, if he has his head on straight, he's a better overall player than Thornton. Big if though. So far, so good.

We can agree on this point.

However, this offseason concerns me because while the opportunity to create a bigger, more balanced, roster exists, so does the potential to lose out on BOTH Donte and JT without a backup plan, then it's more of the same, if not worse. A related concern is that I still don't see that Smart is playing smallball out of necessity, but rather out of desire. Combine that with the fact that he may have input into roster decisions, and you can see why I am wound up as tightly as I am. We were thiiis[/] close to taking a step to the next level, and now we've clearly taken a step backwards, with the potential to do much worse.
 
Is "smallball" simply starting Thomas at PG? Is "smallball" simply starting Evans at SF? Is it "smallball" if Williams is playing SG? Is Smart running a "smallball" offense because he coached under Nelson for six years? How do you know it's "smallball"? When Thomas becomes the starting PG for the Bobcats will their offense be using "smallball"? With the roster Smart has is there anyway he play, field a team that isn't "smallball", at least a team you would recommend? If you were Smart what lineup would you start and hope to win with?

All questions I come up with every time I read a thread that talks about Kings "smallball". Basketball I understand. Trying to win I understand. Some of the rest adnittedly leaves me in the dark.
 
I know it may not be indicative of the whole situation... but when Tyreke was coming off the bench a few games ago we were winning, we looked like a real team, and he was playing well. Now that he is back in the starting lineup he's been a ghost and we have been losing. I say we go back to bringing him off the bench to fill in at PG and SG duties when needed and see what happens. Until we have a real keeper at SF starting him just isn't working, especially at the SF position. And as far as putting Thorton on the bench is concerned, he's earned a starting spot and has had a bigger positive impact on our team this year than Evans, imo.
 
Is "smallball" simply starting Thomas at PG? Is "smallball" simply starting Evans at SF? Is it "smallball" if Williams is playing SG? Is Smart running a "smallball" offense because he coached under Nelson for six years? How do you know it's "smallball"? When Thomas becomes the starting PG for the Bobcats will their offense be using "smallball"? With the roster Smart has is there anyway he play, field a team that isn't "smallball", at least a team you would recommend? If you were Smart what lineup would you start and hope to win with?

All questions I come up with every time I read a thread that talks about Kings "smallball". Basketball I understand. Trying to win I understand. Some of the rest adnittedly leaves me in the dark.

I agree. Thomas, Thorton, Evans, Thompson, and Cousins is a pretty regular sized lineup in my opinion... i think we are so used to having Evans at the PG that we kind of forget not all PG's are 6'6 and 220. Don't undersell IT either... he plays great defense on guys that are even a little bigger than him. Small ball is playing 3 guards and 2 forwards without a center. I won't deny that our style is small ballish though, the difference is that Small Ball teams can't play D because they are under sized....we can't play defense because we suck at it.

How come Evans never posts up against smaller guards... i remember him doing it his rookie season but its like he just dropped that from his game. It would be a huge advantage to back down a smaller player and take him one on one or dish it on a double team.
 
Is "smallball" simply starting Thomas at PG? Is "smallball" simply starting Evans at SF? Is it "smallball" if Williams is playing SG? Is Smart running a "smallball" offense because he coached under Nelson for six years? How do you know it's "smallball"? When Thomas becomes the starting PG for the Bobcats will their offense be using "smallball"? With the roster Smart has is there anyway he play, field a team that isn't "smallball", at least a team you would recommend? If you were Smart what lineup would you start and hope to win with?

All questions I come up with every time I read a thread that talks about Kings "smallball". Basketball I understand. Trying to win I understand. Some of the rest adnittedly leaves me in the dark.

Short version: playing a three guard lineup or a lineup devoid of a center. The idea is to favor speed over size. The advantages is that you have more (theoretically better) shooters and ballhandlers on the floor, leading to more points. The disadvantage (aside from never winning a championship) is that you are smaller than the person you're trying to defend at nearly every position, making defense nearly impossible to achieve. Your main goal is to outgun the opposition.

It doesn't have anything to do with IT, really. If we had IT and Evans in the backcourt, with someone like Donte Greene at SF, then JT and Cousins in the frontcourt, then it would be a more balanced lineup. As it is, we play with three guards, and usually during games, Smart will go to a 4 guard lineup. That is the crux of the issue as it pertains to the Kings.

I hope that helps to clarify a little.
 
How come Evans never posts up against smaller guards... i remember him doing it his rookie season but its like he just dropped that from his game. It would be a huge advantage to back down a smaller player and take him one on one or dish it on a double team.

Tyreke no longer is a guard so he never is playing against players smaller than he is. He can't post up a SF bigger than he is.
 
It would be stupid of anyone to deny the fact that Keith Smart has 'small ball' or 'nellie ball' - just get out and run - roots.

With that being said, again, It's not like he has adequate talent after adequate talent sitting on the bench while guys with LESS talent play positions they are slightly undersized for. Evans is playing SF because he's 6'6 and our best option at small forward by a mile. Same goes for Thornton as an undersized 2 and Thomas as an undersized 1. I think Smarts IN GAME substitutions and rotations have been awful .. much more crippling then the starting lineup, In my opinion.

And like I said in my previous post, I think this is a short term starting lineup. The rest of the season at most. Something is going to change this offseason... we just don't have many options now.
 
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How come Evans never posts up against smaller guards... i remember him doing it his rookie season but its like he just dropped that from his game. It would be a huge advantage to back down a smaller player and take him one on one or dish it on a double team.

Because now he's paired up against the opposing team's SF. Last year he was in the backcourt, so he was always matched up against smaller guards. When Beno is the other guard, you can't really hide a small guy on defense. You can easily hide him against IT now. Ditto with an MT/Evans backcourt. If you put your best defender on Evans, then MT goes bonkers because your other guard can't defend him. With Evans at SF, you get a larger body to guard him, leaving your better guard defender on MT. IT gets his points, and you've shut down 2 other players.

As for your other point, it's not that we can't play defense, because we've had stretches of good defense (albeit with a different lineup/rotation), it's that the current lineup isn't setup to play defense. With IT/MT/Evans as a guard rotation, you are at a size disadvantage at all three positions. Evans HAS to guard the SF in this arrangement, because if not then you're putting either 6'3" MT against a SF, or 5'nuthin IT on someone much larger.

This is why Smart is always talking about pushing tempo. You can't smallball effectively in the halfcourt set on offense OR defense, and this is why, I think primarily, IT was moved to the point. Note I am not endorsing his logic, but I am hopefully clarifying a little more on the issue at hand.
 
It would be stupid of anyone to deny the fact that Keith Smart has 'small ball' or 'nellie ball' - just get out and run - roots.

With that being said, again, It's not like he has adequate talent after adequate talent sitting on the bench while guys with LESS talent play positions they are slightly undersized for. Evans is playing SF because he's 6'6 and our best option at small forward by a mile. Same goes for Thornton as an undersized 2 and Thomas as an undersized 1. I think Smarts IN GAME substitutions and rotations have been awful .. more more crippling then the starting lineup, In my opinion.

And like I said in my previous post, I think this is a short term starting lineup. The rest of the season at most. Something is going to change this offseason... we just don't have many options now.

The thing is, if Evans is our best option at SF (not to mention the times he's been PF) we've neutralized what he does best, which is still a net loss in terms of his development and the teams long-term success.
 
If I were Tyreke I would ask to come off the bench in a 3 guard rotation. Not because I think he will play the role of 6th man best of the 3 but because the coach obviously finds Reke the most easy to push to the wrong positions. We have too much on the ball offense in the starters and not enough offense at all in the bench period. I would plug donte in the starting lineup and tell him to play defense above all else and he will get minutes. IT MT Donte JT and Cousins starting isn't a small lineup or (smallball) they can still run an uptempo offense and they have balanced Offense from the 5 and 2 with the other positions as roleplayers.

If we then subbed the 1 and 2 positions out with any sort of intelligence all 3 of those guys would get starter minutes and we would have more even production from those 2 spots. Salmons/Cisco in at the 3 on the bench for some added offense and handling with the second unit and a 3 man rotation at the 4 and 5 with WS getting 15 minutes a game. And would you look at that the question marks we have, Donte WS, will be able to answer us and the roster is balanced baring injury/fouling. Sprinkle some Jimmer in there and we have a 8-10 man rotation that makes sense.

If I were Tyreke I would also be planning on leaving because the front office/coach has shown itself to be unable to use you and unable to build a team and make progress and everyone will be making Reke an offer in a year and a few months.

What should happen is the coach should have the backbone to send one of reke or MT to the bench with starter minutes and get them to buy into it.
 
Is "smallball" simply starting Thomas at PG? Is "smallball" simply starting Evans at SF? Is it "smallball" if Williams is playing SG? Is Smart running a "smallball" offense because he coached under Nelson for six years? How do you know it's "smallball"? When Thomas becomes the starting PG for the Bobcats will their offense be using "smallball"? With the roster Smart has is there anyway he play, field a team that isn't "smallball", at least a team you would recommend? If you were Smart what lineup would you start and hope to win with?

All questions I come up with every time I read a thread that talks about Kings "smallball". Basketball I understand. Trying to win I understand. Some of the rest adnittedly leaves me in the dark.

Just look at the lineups he puts out there. It screams smallball. Why he does it?? Who knows, probably because he was mentored under Don Nelson. The problem is that small-ball is not successful. It never will be and that's what's frustrating. How many championships has Don Nelson won? Oh yea, ZERO.

I seem to remember a lineup of Isaiah Thomas, Jimmer Fredette, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw, and Chuck Hayes during the Houston Rockets game. You cannot tell me there was a good reason to put this atrocity of a lineup out there. Let's see here. You have an undersized point guard in Thomas, an undersized combo (PG/SG) in Fredette, a shooting guard in Salmons, a terrible small forward in Travis Outlaw, and an undersized Center in Chuck Hayes.

The main problem with small-ball is the problems it causes on the defensive side of the ball. Sure our offense becomes quicker but our defense suffers. And Lord knows how good we are on defense. Look at the stats, they don't lie and these lineups are a large reason for that. You cannot tell me teams don't take advantage of this difference in size.

The part that's most frustrating is that there's no one forcing Smart to play these lineups. We could EASILY have a size advantage with the current players on our roster. Moving Evans to SF completely diminishes his strengths as a player, someone who can drive and overpower his way to the basket.

Lets look at what the depth Chart should look like:

Thomas/Fredette
Thornton/Tyreke(interchange the two)/Twill (combo)/Salmons (combo)/Garcia(combo)
Greene/Honeycutt/Outlaw
Thompson/Hayes (?)
Cousins/Hayes/Whiteside


I really don't understand why Smart fiddles with this. We are NOT WINNING. Playing players out of their position greatly hinders their development. How are bad habits supposed to be remedied when a player is constantly played out of their position. How are players supposed to know their roles?? This goes hand in hand with substitutions and don't even get me started on that.

Looking at that depth chart, it's obvious to see what we lack. A reliable SF and another power forward. Also, too many guards. What Smart likes to do is mix lineups up to make up for this lack. However, he could EASILY play Greene at SF. He IS NOT a PF. He could EASILY give Honeycutt some minutes at SF. Once again, we are NOT winning at the moment so why the hell does he not??

Not only would this make our lineups more balanced, but our defense would greatly improve and players would know their roles. Just leave the damn players in their natural positions. Sadly, I don't think Smart with ever get this. He certainly hasn't as he keeps on making inane subsitutions and lineups.

And with the Maloofs coddling their new prized posession in Smart, who knows how long he'll be here for.

There's my two cents.
 
The problem with playing him out of position is that now you've wasted another year of development, regardless of the clear roster flaws. That points to chasing wins (which we haven't done) over player development. I'd rather develop the players at their natural positions, and plug in an ineffective SF Salmons. We're not winning with small ball, and the organization is doing a great job of giving Evans the Alex Smith treatment.

What exactly can't he develop if he plays at the three that is necessary as a two-guard? He's learning to move without the ball, a skill that is very nice to have as a 2-guard. Playing the 3 doesn't preclude him from getting better on his outside shot. How exactly is he being held back from his development?

I totally get how his ballhandling strengths aren't being seen fully at the three, but I don't think I agree that he can't develop the skills he needs because he is a three.
 
Is there anybody with a DVR that has watched Tyreke's defense closely since he became a 3? I'm somewhat skeptical that he can't guard 3s. How often is it exactly that he's got taken to school by being posted up against bigger 3s? I have an impression that it's really not that much, but without tape I remain noncommital. I'm focused on the posting-up angle because we know with a certainty that he should have the quickness to guard 3s, so if it's rare that he's being punked in post-ups, then I have to conclude that he can guard 3s.
 
Just look at the lineups he puts out there. It screams smallball. Why he does it?? Who knows, probably because he was mentored under Don Nelson. The problem is that small-ball is not successful. It never will be and that's what's frustrating. How many championships has Don Nelson won? Oh yea, ZERO.

I seem to remember a lineup of Isaiah Thomas, Jimmer Fredette, John Salmons, Travis Outlaw, and Chuck Hayes during the Houston Rockets game. You cannot tell me there was a good reason to put this atrocity of a lineup out there. Let's see here. You have an undersized point guard in Thomas, an undersized combo (PG/SG) in Fredette, a shooting guard in Salmons, a terrible small forward in Travis Outlaw, and an undersized Center in Chuck Hayes.

The main problem with small-ball is the problems it causes on the defensive side of the ball. Sure our offense becomes quicker but our defense suffers. And Lord knows how good we are on defense. Look at the stats, they don't lie and these lineups are a large reason for that. You cannot tell me teams don't take advantage of this difference in size.

The part that's most frustrating is that there's no one forcing Smart to play these lineups. We could EASILY have a size advantage with the current players on our roster. Moving Evans to SF completely diminishes his strengths as a player, someone who can drive and overpower his way to the basket.

Lets look at what the depth Chart should look like:

Thomas/Fredette
Thornton/Tyreke(interchange the two)/Twill (combo)/Salmons (combo)/Garcia(combo)
Greene/Honeycutt/Outlaw
Thompson/Hayes (?)
Cousins/Hayes/Whiteside


I really don't understand why Smart fiddles with this. We are NOT WINNING. Playing players out of their position greatly hinders their development. How are bad habits supposed to be remedied when a player is constantly played out of their position. How are players supposed to know their roles?? This goes hand in hand with substitutions and don't even get me started on that.

Looking at that depth chart, it's obvious to see what we lack. A reliable SF and another power forward. Also, too many guards. What Smart likes to do is mix lineups up to make up for this lack. However, he could EASILY play Greene at SF. He IS NOT a PF. He could EASILY give Honeycutt some minutes at SF. Once again, we are NOT winning at the moment so why the hell does he not??

Not only would this make our lineups more balanced, but our defense would greatly improve and players would know their roles. Just leave the damn players in their natural positions. Sadly, I don't think Smart with ever get this. He certainly hasn't as he keeps on making inane subsitutions and lineups.

And with the Maloofs coddling their new prized posession in Smart, who knows how long he'll be here for.

There's my two cents.

The problem comes in the benching part. How do you tell MT, Tyreke, or Thomas that they've been benched for Donte Greene? How can Smart justify that without losing one of his best players. All three guys deserve to start ... All three guys will get much more pissed off being benched then starting out of position. The only guy who MIGHT take it ok is Tyreke, but I want Tyreke starting. Smart can't really win here. He's dammed if he benches one of them because they are all far better than there substitution, but he gets slammed for small balling it if he doesn't change the lineup.

Smart can remedy a lot of this with better in game substitutions. They were better last game, but for the most part they have been horrible. We are playing better with this lineup then we were with the Salmons SF lineup. We are keeping games close, then Smart pukes all over the substitution patterns and we lose in the fourth.

For instance, I remember a game against the Pistons a few weeks ago where Prince was killing us. If you can recognize that early on then Donte should be on him early and stay on him for most of the rest of the game. You can still get the guards their minutes just split it up a bit, but still let them start so you don't lose them.

Smart is in a really tough spot. He's still a new coach, he's still trying to get the players to trust him, and maybe he hasn't done a very good job of that with anyone aside from Cousins and Thomas, but benching one of those guards ... that's dangerous.
 
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