Greg Monroe

[KingsCitizen]

Pretty good measurements for this kid.

6'10" (without shoes)
6'11" (with shoes)
250 lbs

We'll have to see how the workout goes. If Petrie drafts this kid, we might be seeing a lot of resemblance to the CWebb-Vlade passing between him and Hawes.

He's got excellent offensive skills and passing ability.
Though not lauded for his defense, I think we can sign some FA bigs to do the other dirty work down low. I just think Tyreke badly needs one of our bigs to share the scoring needs but Hawes and Thompson ain't that creative on offense so far.

If its only Johnson and Favors left at number 5. Somebody's gonna think hard about Monroe if such scenario happens. But if Cousins falls to us. No questions asked. Get Cousins.

 

[Bricklayer]

Favors >>> Monroe.

And despite Geoff's rep, the word a month or two ago was that Geoff was really high on Favors too.

Johnson or Aminu, sure. That's our real problem. If the top 4 are gone our choices are SFs or bigs limited in various ways. Then Monroe comes into play.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Im stuck on either Monroe or Wes Johnson.
I can see Monroe being a great offensive starting big in the future. If we decided to take him as our PF of the future I would probably be fine with that. Thompson is a bench player IMO.
Monroes soooooo young (19) so we have no idea how good he can really get.
They compare him to Brad Miller and people seem kinda dissapointed in that.. But Miller was an allstar in both conferences.. Monroe has all Millers skills only hes better in the post, weaker jumpshot tho. I think if Monroe could possibly be a rich mans miller in the future.

 

[Jespher]

Im stuck on either Monroe or Wes Johnson.
I can see Monroe being a great offensive starting big in the future. If we decided to take him as our PF of the future I would probably be fine with that. Thompson is a bench player IMO.
Monroes soooooo young (19) so we have no idea how good he can really get.
They compare him to Brad Miller and people seem kinda dissapointed in that.. But Miller was an allstar in both conferences.. Monroe has all Millers skills only hes better in the post, weaker jumpshot tho. I think if Monroe could possibly be a rich mans miller in the future.

Don't forget, Brad Miller went undrafted. With the 5th pick, you need a player with the possibility of greatness, and Brad Miller was far from great, or consistent...Monroe looks fundamentally sound, however, his athleticism and speed deficits will make him a defensive liability, especially playing against longer, taller front lines like Memphis or L.A.

 

[Prince_XY]

Pretty good measurements for this kid.

6'10" (without shoes)
6'11" (with shoes)
250 lbs

We'll have to see how the workout goes. If Petrie drafts this kid, we might be seeing a lot of resemblance to the CWebb-Vlade passing between him and Hawes.

He's got excellent offensive skills and passing ability.
Though not lauded for his defense, I think we can sign some FA bigs to do the other dirty work down low. I just think Tyreke badly needs one of our bigs to share the scoring needs but Hawes and Thompson ain't that creative on offense so far.

If its only Johnson and Favors left at number 5. Somebody's gonna think hard about Monroe if such scenario happens. But if Cousins falls to us. No questions asked. Get Cousins.

Where did you get those measurements?

Draftexpress listed him at 6' 9.75" ( without shoes ) and not 6' 10". Also, he weighed at 247 lbs. and not 250 lbs.

This is probably why you would think hard at #5 between Favors and Monroe. You got swayed a little bit towards Monroe because of the very inaccurate measurement.

 

[sc3252]

Where did you get those measurements?

Draftexpress listed him at 6' 9.75" ( without shoes ) and not 6' 10". Also, he weighed at 247 lbs. and not 250 lbs.

This is probably why you would think hard at #5 between Favors and Monroe. You got swayed a little bit towards Monroe because of the very inaccurate measurement.

Close enough for NBA standards, in fact that's just about legit 7'.

Not sure if I want him or not, he may be a great player just not sure if he will fit with our poor defensive team.

 

[KingsCitizen]

Where did you get those measurements?

Draftexpress listed him at 6' 9.75" ( without shoes ) and not 6' 10". Also, he weighed at 247 lbs. and not 250 lbs.

This is probably why you would think hard at #5 between Favors and Monroe. You got swayed a little bit towards Monroe because of the very inaccurate measurement.

I know the real measurements mi amigo. I just rounded it up.
That's still a good measurements compared to other big men in this draft. Plus he's probably the top offensive big in this draft.
And at age 19, the kid can still grow and bulk up.

But I'll leave Geoff all the rights to take him or not.

 

[Jechtsphere]

We're trying to build a tougher team, we've gone away from the Princeton offense. Don't think he's a fit. I'd be extremly unhappy...don't see him making us better.

 

[M_Barragan]

If petrie were to pick him it would be because he sees more Tim Duncan in him the Brad Miller.

 

[Bricklayer]

If petrie were to pick him it would be because he sees more Tim Duncan in him the Brad Miller.

You know this is kind of right -- something about his body and the way he moves does remind me of Duncan (as well as a host of less successful not terribly atheltic big men). But he will never, and I do mean NEVER, remotely approach Duncan's defense and rebounding, which of course is the whole reason Duncan is arguably one of the top two PFs of all time.

 

[M_Barragan]

Agreed.

 

[DoDiGaG0]

I actually think that Monroe would be an awesome C to pair with Tyreke..

He can do a lot of things Vlade used to do for us.... Coachie will love him and he's another guy we can run our offense through because of his high post passing ability

 

[hammystyle]

You know this is kind of right -- something about his body and the way he moves does remind me of Duncan (as well as a host of less successful not terribly atheltic big men). But he will never, and I do mean NEVER, remotely approach Duncan's defense and rebounding, which of course is the whole reason Duncan is arguably one of the top two PFs of all time.

No he won't. However I think the takeaway is that although Monroe doesn't have that explosive reactive movement ability that really catches your eyes, his feet and instincts get him to the right spot almost as well. Duncan is the king of this, and of course he's also 7'1 with a huge wingspan. Varejou is another guy, maybe even quicker.

Monroe will not be a 10 time All-NBA defender, but he has the feet, length, frame and smarts to be a good defensive player in a good defensive scheme. There's an understandable drive to find the lynchpin defensive goalie on the back end that the Kings have really never had. But if the best guy is a 6'11 center prospect with a skilled offensive game who can be a good team defender...then I think that is our guy. Its not his fault that Hawes and JT don't really cover his weaknesses. IMO he is a MUCH better prospect than those guys, and additionally, the Aldrich/ Whiteside/ Udoh/Davis crew as well. He wouln't fix all our holes, but he would jump right next to Reke as a solid builing block with Casspi and Greene.

 

[bajaden]

You know this is kind of right -- something about his body and the way he moves does remind me of Duncan (as well as a host of less successful not terribly atheltic big men). But he will never, and I do mean NEVER, remotely approach Duncan's defense and rebounding, which of course is the whole reason Duncan is arguably one of the top two PFs of all time.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I agree with you about Monroe's defense. But when Duncan came out of Wake Forrest the biggest knock on him at the time was that he wasn't athletic enough. And truthfully, Duncan isn't a great athlete. But Duncan was one of the most fundamentally sound bigs to come out of college in a long time. He knew how to play the game. And on both ends of the court. Great footwork. Great position player. He had it all.

However, I just can't put Monroe in the same catagory. But he could prove me wrong..

 

[MassachusettsKingsFan]

Monroe does seem to be picking up some steam on here, but I still just cant pick him over Aldrich. Maybe Im alone on this, but I think Aldrich is as good on D as Monroe is on offense. Whats more important to us?

I'll take it a step further, Aldrich is probly better on offense than Monroe is on D. Just my opinion of course, but Im really high on Cole.

 

[SacKings7]

I actually think that Monroe would be an awesome C to pair with Tyreke..

He can do a lot of things Vlade used to do for us.... Coachie will love him and he's another guy we can run our offense through because of his high post passing ability

We're not that team anymore. Tyreke handles the ball(as he should), not our posts. Put Vlade himself on the team now and he wouldn't make us that much better IMO

 

[bajaden]

We're not that team anymore. Tyreke handles the ball(as he should), not our posts. Put Vlade himself on the team now and he wouldn't make us that much better IMO

We were running the Princeton offense then. Now were not. At times we run a type of motion offense, and at other times not. I'm not sure that Westphal has actually settled on what type of offense he's going to run. Monroe would be a perfect fit for the Princeton offense. Tyreke isn't. Now maybe a couple of years from now, when he's a solid outside shooter, he might be.

To run the Princeton offense properly there are two abilites that all the players on the floor must have. They all need to be capable passers of the ball, and they all need to be good outside shooters. The whole offense is predicated on the players with the ball, passing the ball instead of dribbling it. And the players without the ball, moving constantly. The Princeton offense is a great offense for breaking a zone defense down. As is the triangle offense.

The problem with both these type's of offense, is that you need the right kind of players to play them. You just can't take any team and say were going to play the triangle or princeton offense. As Eddie Jordan found out this past season.

With the players the Kings currently have on the roster, I don't think were going to be seeing the princeton offense anytime soon.

 

[Prince_XY]

If you guys don't want to get frustrated on draft day, then as early as now brace yourselves. Learn to love the likes of Monroe. It is a very high possibility that this BIG is the BIG we will have knowing Petrie. A big who is relatively good in offense, decent passer, but another softie in defense.

I will begin psyching myself to spare me from farther frustration. I love Monroe's game.

 

[SacKings7]

We were running the Princeton offense then. Now were not. At times we run a type of motion offense, and at other times not. I'm not sure that Westphal has actually settled on what type of offense he's going to run. Monroe would be a perfect fit for the Princeton offense. Tyreke isn't. Now maybe a couple of years from now, when he's a solid outside shooter, he might be.

To run the Princeton offense properly there are two abilites that all the players on the floor must have. They all need to be capable passers of the ball, and they all need to be good outside shooters. The whole offense is predicated on the players with the ball, passing the ball instead of dribbling it. And the players without the ball, moving constantly. The Princeton offense is a great offense for breaking a zone defense down. As is the triangle offense.

The problem with both these type's of offense, is that you need the right kind of players to play them. You just can't take any team and say were going to play the triangle or princeton offense. As Eddie Jordan found out this past season.

With the players the Kings currently have on the roster, I don't think were going to be seeing the princeton offense anytime soon.

Exactly. Your posts are better, but we're saying the same thing

 

[Uncia03]

I've said this before, but I'll mention it again here.

After the draft that Petrie just had last year which was centered on overwhelming physical play, physical toughness, and tenacity, there is just no way that he does a complete 180 and chooses Monroe as this teams future power forward, especially when we already have JT, Hawes, and Landry.

At this point in time there are a few things we know about Monroe.
We know that JT is a better rebouder.
We know that Hawes is a far better shooter from the outside.

The things we don't know are:
Is Monroe a better defender than either JT or Hawes? (Doubtful)
Is Monroe a better passer than Hawes? (Probably very close)
Can Monroe hold his offensive position in the post better than Hawes? (This is the critical item. Hawes has more skill, but can't hold position)

We already have a Big who is an outstanding passer, good outside shooter, with questionable rebounding and defensive skills.

We don't know how Monroe's defense and rebounding will stack up with Hawes. We don't know if he'll be able to hold post position or not in the NBA. We do know that Monroe isn't as good an outside shooter.

So, unless Monroe is an absolute rebound and defensive monster when going up against Cousins, Favors, Udoh, Davis in the team work-outs, I just don't see any reason why we'd waste our top 5 pick on someone who no longer fits the mentality of what we're looking to draft while not even having the guarantee of bringing better skills when compared to some of the young players we already have on the team.

I trust Petrie and his draft picks, but it will take a long time for me to recover if we select Monroe.

 

[hammystyle]

I've said this before, but I'll mention it again here.

After the draft that Petrie just had last year which was centered on overwhelming physical play, physical toughness, and tenacity, there is just no way that he does a complete 180 and chooses Monroe as this teams future power forward, especially when we already have JT, Hawes, and Landry.

At this point in time there are a few things we know about Monroe.
We know that JT is a better rebouder.
We know that Hawes is a far better shooter from the outside.

The things we don't know are:
Is Monroe a better defender than either JT or Hawes? (Doubtful)
Is Monroe a better passer than Hawes? (Probably very close)
Can Monroe hold his offensive position in the post better than Hawes? (This is the critical item. Hawes has more skill, but can't hold position)

We already have a Big who is an outstanding passer, good outside shooter, with questionable rebounding and defensive skills.

We don't know how Monroe's defense and rebounding will stack up with Hawes. We don't know if he'll be able to hold post position or not in the NBA. We do know that Monroe isn't as good an outside shooter.

So, unless Monroe is an absolute rebound and defensive monster when going up against Cousins, Favors, Udoh, Davis in the team work-outs, I just don't see any reason why we'd waste our top 5 pick on someone who no longer fits the mentality of what we're looking to draft while not even having the guarantee of bringing better skills when compared to some of the young players we already have on the team.

I trust Petrie and his draft picks, but it will take a long time for me to recover if we select Monroe.

Its not a good argument to say that since we don't "know" Monroe will be a stronger tougher center than Hawes we should stay away. Just because a player has a similar skillset doesn't make them the same player. Monroe is more athletic than Hawes, far less mechanical, and has the frame to end up being a lot stronger. He actually might be bigger and stronger than Hawes right now, at age 19.

Free throws are a pretty good harbinger of athleticism and physical play.

Hawes: 251 games (college and pro's) 398 free throws
Monroe: 65 games 369 free throws

Monroe's just a much better prospect, better than Hawes was coming out and definitely better now.

 

[Uncia03]

Its not a good argument to say that since we don't "know" Monroe will be a stronger tougher center than Hawes we should stay away. Just because a player has a similar skillset doesn't make them the same player. Monroe is more athletic than Hawes, far less mechanical, and has the frame to end up being a lot stronger. He actually might be bigger and stronger than Hawes right now, at age 19.

Free throws are a pretty good harbinger of athleticism and physical play.

Hawes: 251 games (college and pro's) 398 free throws
Monroe: 65 games 369 free throws

Monroe's just a much better prospect, better than Hawes was coming out and definitely better now.

I think you're missing my point completely.

It's the fact that we can't conclude whether or not Monroe may be marginally better than Hawes from a defensive and rebounding perspective is the reason why it's absurd to think that Petrie will select him at #5.

For instance I can guarantee that Cousins/Favors/Aldrich/Udoh will all be better rebounders and defenders in the NBA when compared to Hawes. So, therefore, it's possible that Petrie could end up selecting one of these players.

Monroe was not a good college defender. Monroe improved his rebounding, but still was not a good rebounder. Monroe is not an explosive athlete.

What Monroe is, is a smooth big man, with great passing ability, and a good post-game. My problem with him, is that from a post perspective, he can only score with the left hand, and he isn't a physical or explosive player. So he was able to do it in college, but I have serious doubts that he'll excel in the NBA.

So if Monroe isn't a large step up in the rebounding/defending department, and if his passing ability is mirrored by Hawes passing ability, and if he isn't as good a shooter as Hawes, and his style of post play is one which might not transfer as well on the NBA level, then why would you want him?

He isn't a tough, physical player. Though he does have a slightly longer wingspan than Hawes, he is both shorter and has a smaller standing reach when compared to Hawes.

Listen, I have my doubts as to whether or not Hawes is going to step up his game and become a consistent, productive member of this team. And if it turns out that he can't become the player we need, then we'll either let him walk, or include him in a trade.

But from a PF perspective, both JT and Landry offer more than Monroe, and due to having NBA experience I would currently put Hawes in front of Monroe as well. So I don't know why you'd want to draft someone at #5 who might be 4th on your PF depth chart while offering none of the things which we actually need at the PF position.

The final thing I want to discuss is your argument in regards to free-throws being an indicator of athleticism and physical play, and your conclusion that Monroe dominates in that area.

Here are the college stats:
Year 1: Hawes 98 FTA
Year 2: Monroe 150 FTA

Year 2: Hawes 0 (Didn't play in college)
Year 2: Monroe 209

Monroe went to the line about 33% more of the time when you compare their freshmen years in college. That is the only comparison that can be made that may have any sort of relevance.

The fact that Hawes' free-throw production dropped dramatically after college just helps support my argument that Monroe's game is going to have difficulty translating in the NBA as well. Neither of them are tough, physical post players. Both of them relied on finesse to position themselves in the post and finish. And as I mentioned, Monroe can only finish with his left hand, which means it will be that much easier to defend against him in the post, and his production in the NBA should suffer because of it.

Let me put it this way. I'm not remotely scared of seeing the Kings face off against Monroe. I don't think he'd have very good success against us. And if I think our frontline can handle him, then I don't really want to have anything to do with him.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Monroe improved his rebounding, but still was not a good rebounder.

The idea that Monroe is not a good rebounder is a bit of a myth. Monroe had a defensive rebounding percentage (DR%) of 25.2 this year, meaning that he grabbed 25.2% of the available defensive rebounds when he was on the floor. This was good for #26 in the country. There is only one player who had a better DR% than Monroe that is likely to be drafted in the first round (Cole Aldrich at 25.7%) and only two other players (both from Oklahoma State!) above Monroe that came from a major conference.

That's right, Monroe actually had a better DR% than DeMarcus Cousins (25.1%, so barely). One might be tempted to say that Cousins played alongside Patterson and therefore some of his rebounds were "taken" by Patterson, but if you add up the DR% of the four other starters for Kentucky/G'Town, both groups come out to 40.1%, suggesting that Cousins and Monroe were even surrounded by equivalent rebounders.

Cousins of course was a much better offensive rebounder (19.6% to 8.7%) but I think the point stands that Monroe did a very good job on the defensive boards.

The final thing I want to discuss is your argument in regards to free-throws being an indicator of athleticism and physical play, and your conclusion that Monroe dominates in that area.

Here are the college stats:
Year 1: Hawes 98 FTA
Year 2: Monroe 150 FTA

Year 2: Hawes 0 (Didn't play in college)
Year 2: Monroe 209

Monroe went to the line about 33% more of the time when you compare their freshmen years in college. That is the only comparison that can be made that may have any sort of relevance.

Actually, it's probably not the most relevant comparison. The most relevant comparison is probably free throw rate, which measures the number of FT attempts per 100 FG attempts. Hawes had a very low FT rate, at 27.0 in his one year at Washington. This season at G'Town, Monroe DOUBLED that rate at 54.3, and lest you say we can't compare Monroe's soph season to Hawes' freshman, Monroe had an even higher FT rate of 60.0 his freshman year.

Over his college career, Monroe drew a LOT more free throws than Hawes did - he was over twice as likely to be fouled on a shot attempt. That would indicate to me that's he's a more physical player and taking fewer jump shots.

 

[Prince_XY]

After the draft that Petrie just had last year which was centered on overwhelming physical play, physical toughness, and tenacity, there is just no way that he does a complete 180 and chooses Monroe as this teams future power forward, especially when we already have JT, Hawes, and Landry.....

I trust Petrie and his draft picks, but it will take a long time for me to recover if we select Monroe.

You my friend should brace yourself for the possibility we will be getting Monroe. IMO and I agree with you that last year's draft seems like centered on toughness BUT last year might just be the exception rather than the rule. As I know Petrie loves his big to be FINESSED, SOFT, and relatively DECENT PASSER which somehow fits Monroe. And Petrie has not shown he had changed his fetish for several years now.

 

[hammystyle]

I think you're missing my point completely.

It's the fact that we can't conclude whether or not Monroe may be marginally better than Hawes from a defensive and rebounding perspective is the reason why it's absurd to think that Petrie will select him at #5.

For instance I can guarantee that Cousins/Favors/Aldrich/Udoh will all be better rebounders and defenders in the NBA when compared to Hawes. So, therefore, it's possible that Petrie could end up selecting one of these players.

Monroe was not a good college defender. Monroe improved his rebounding, but still was not a good rebounder. Monroe is not an explosive athlete.

What Monroe is, is a smooth big man, with great passing ability, and a good post-game. My problem with him, is that from a post perspective, he can only score with the left hand, and he isn't a physical or explosive player. So he was able to do it in college, but I have serious doubts that he'll excel in the NBA.

So if Monroe isn't a large step up in the rebounding/defending department, and if his passing ability is mirrored by Hawes passing ability, and if he isn't as good a shooter as Hawes, and his style of post play is one which might not transfer as well on the NBA level, then why would you want him?

He isn't a tough, physical player. Though he does have a slightly longer wingspan than Hawes, he is both shorter and has a smaller standing reach when compared to Hawes.

Listen, I have my doubts as to whether or not Hawes is going to step up his game and become a consistent, productive member of this team. And if it turns out that he can't become the player we need, then we'll either let him walk, or include him in a trade.

But from a PF perspective, both JT and Landry offer more than Monroe, and due to having NBA experience I would currently put Hawes in front of Monroe as well. So I don't know why you'd want to draft someone at #5 who might be 4th on your PF depth chart while offering none of the things which we actually need at the PF position.

The final thing I want to discuss is your argument in regards to free-throws being an indicator of athleticism and physical play, and your conclusion that Monroe dominates in that area.

Here are the college stats:
Year 1: Hawes 98 FTA
Year 2: Monroe 150 FTA

Year 2: Hawes 0 (Didn't play in college)
Year 2: Monroe 209

Monroe went to the line about 33% more of the time when you compare their freshmen years in college. That is the only comparison that can be made that may have any sort of relevance.

The fact that Hawes' free-throw production dropped dramatically after college just helps support my argument that Monroe's game is going to have difficulty translating in the NBA as well. Neither of them are tough, physical post players. Both of them relied on finesse to position themselves in the post and finish. And as I mentioned, Monroe can only finish with his left hand, which means it will be that much easier to defend against him in the post, and his production in the NBA should suffer because of it.

Let me put it this way. I'm not remotely scared of seeing the Kings face off against Monroe. I don't think he'd have very good success against us. And if I think our frontline can handle him, then I don't really want to have anything to do with him.

I don't consider the improvement from Monroe to Hawes marginal, or I'd agree with you. I expect him to be vastly better offensively and defensively. That's my point. The strugles Hawes has had have nothing to do with Monroe because they're completely different players and talent levels. Its like saying we shouldn't take Wesley Johnson because he'll shoot about as good as Cisco and we don't know whether he'll be an upgrade defensively.

The FT thing I think is very illustrating, even if you choose to dismiss it. Your math is also off, Monroe went to the line 50% more which is substantial. 98 to 150 is an increase of 50%. I think its fair to keep counting because Monroe a lot more aggressive as a sophomore while Hawes went to the NBA and shrunk futher and further from contact. Either way the point is that even in college Hawes did not play physically on offense. Its not so much a huge plus for Monroe as just an example why they're completely different.

On defense Monroe is actually pretty good. Have you seen him? He's just not a great shot blocker. He's mobile and is generally in the right place at the right time and plays big. He gets lots of steals, which is a good indicator of activity (Hawes gets none). This man to man game he will probly struggle early on as most do. He will take time to learn NBA fundamentals, and fill out his body, but I think he has the potential to be above average.

As for the left hand, that's absolutely true. He's all left, no right. However, aren't pretty much all lefties like that? When's the last time you saw Lamar Odom finish with his right? Its a minus, but I'd say he's better with his left than most righties are with their right.

Overall, you need to compare Monroe to the other guys in the draft, not Hawes. In my mind we have a big hole at center. Let's just pick the best guy in the draft to fill it.

 

[hammystyle]

The idea that Monroe is not a good rebounder is a bit of a myth. Monroe had a defensive rebounding percentage (DR%) of 25.2 this year, meaning that he grabbed 25.2% of the available defensive rebounds when he was on the floor. This was good for #26 in the country. There is only one player who had a better DR% than Monroe that is likely to be drafted in the first round (Cole Aldrich at 25.7%) and only two other players (both from Oklahoma State!) above Monroe that came from a major conference.

That's right, Monroe actually had a better DR% than DeMarcus Cousins (25.1%, so barely). One might be tempted to say that Cousins played alongside Patterson and therefore some of his rebounds were "taken" by Patterson, but if you add up the DR% of the four other starters for Kentucky/G'Town, both groups come out to 40.1%, suggesting that Cousins and Monroe were even surrounded by equivalent rebounders.

Cousins of course was a much better offensive rebounder (19.6% to 8.7%) but I think the point stands that Monroe did a very good job on the defensive boards.

That's cool, good stat. I'd add that on offense he operated away from the basket a lot of the time. I think more by design then by choice. The Princeton offense helped his assist totals but I don't think it did any favors for the rest of his stats. He's a legit low post back to the basket big, and if he was down there, I think he could get more offensive boards.

 

[bajaden]

Its not a good argument to say that since we don't "know" Monroe will be a stronger tougher center than Hawes we should stay away. Just because a player has a similar skillset doesn't make them the same player. Monroe is more athletic than Hawes, far less mechanical, and has the frame to end up being a lot stronger. He actually might be bigger and stronger than Hawes right now, at age 19.

Free throws are a pretty good harbinger of athleticism and physical play.

Hawes: 251 games (college and pro's) 398 free throws
Monroe: 65 games 369 free throws

Monroe's just a much better prospect, better than Hawes was coming out and definitely better now.

I hate getting into these athletic debates. I watched Monroe play quite a bit, and he's far from an athletic specimen. As a matter of fact I put my money on Hawes in a foot race or in a jumping contest. That doesn't mean that five years from now Monroe won't be a better player.

If Monroe can play the center postion, then I'm not nearly as concerned about his athletic ability. But at the PF position, then yes I would be. JT is twice as Quick as Monroe. I just couldn't see Monroe out there trying to guard players like Stoudemire, Aldridge, Millsap, etc. However I think he would eventually be fine against the likes of Kaman or Gasol.

So thats what it comes down to with me. If he's a center, then you'd have to consider him at 5 if Cousins is gone. But if he's a PF, then no. I'd take Udoh in a heartbeat as a PF over Monroe. Udoh is a much better athlete. But I don't see Udoh as a center. Like JT, he could fill in there but I couldn't see him as a permanent fixture.

Monroe is a terrible offensive rebounder. He hauled in 254 defensive rebounds compared to just 74 offensive rebounds. Quite a disparity. And while he a very good passer and averaged 3.8 assists, he also averaged 3.2 turnovers. I guess we'll just have to see how he fares at the workouts.

 

[bajaden]

The idea that Monroe is not a good rebounder is a bit of a myth. Monroe had a defensive rebounding percentage (DR%) of 25.2 this year, meaning that he grabbed 25.2% of the available defensive rebounds when he was on the floor. This was good for #26 in the country. There is only one player who had a better DR% than Monroe that is likely to be drafted in the first round (Cole Aldrich at 25.7%) and only two other players (both from Oklahoma State!) above Monroe that came from a major conference.

That's right, Monroe actually had a better DR% than DeMarcus Cousins (25.1%, so barely). One might be tempted to say that Cousins played alongside Patterson and therefore some of his rebounds were "taken" by Patterson, but if you add up the DR% of the four other starters for Kentucky/G'Town, both groups come out to 40.1%, suggesting that Cousins and Monroe were even surrounded by equivalent rebounders.

Cousins of course was a much better offensive rebounder (19.6% to 8.7%) but I think the point stands that Monroe did a very good job on the defensive boards.



Actually, it's probably not the most relevant comparison. The most relevant comparison is probably free throw rate, which measures the number of FT attempts per 100 FG attempts. Hawes had a very low FT rate, at 27.0 in his one year at Washington. This season at G'Town, Monroe DOUBLED that rate at 54.3, and lest you say we can't compare Monroe's soph season to Hawes' freshman, Monroe had an even higher FT rate of 60.0 his freshman year.

Over his college career, Monroe drew a LOT more free throws than Hawes did - he was over twice as likely to be fouled on a shot attempt. That would indicate to me that's he's a more physical player and taking fewer jump shots.

Not to be picky or anything, but you forgot to mention that Monroe is not a very good offensive rebounder. Also on the freethrow disparity between Hawes and Monroe. Monroe did play in 3 more games than Hawes, which could explain a little of it.

 

[rainmaker]

If we were picking #8-#10, I would have no problem taking Monroe. But not at #5, not in this draft. I agree with most who think his lack of athleticism is a cause for concern. If we can't get Cousins, I'm leaning heavily towards Udoh right now. I think he has all the tools to be an allstar, and without a doubt, one of the better two-way players at the forward positon.

At #5, I want a guys with star potential. Cousins is that guy. If he's not there, I want the pf I feel has the most star potential in this draft. That would be Udoh. I acually see similarites between Udoh and both Bosh and Garnett. In no way does that mean I think he will become either of them. But when I look at their games, and their versatility, and do see similarities. Udoh will deifinitly be a better shot blocker than Bosh though.

Monroe would be a solid pick. But the athleticism, shot blocking, length, and versatility Udoh has, is something I wouldn't pass on if Cousins isn'there. I just see Monroe having a much lower ceiling than Udoh. More importantly, I think Udoh will be a better defender and rebounder than Monroe, and those are both areas I have questions about Monroes game. Monroe is more polished offensively, but I really want defense and rebounding. And eventhough Monroe is more polished offensively at this point, I think Udoh could be the better of the two on that end as well in the nba.

 

[hammystyle]

I hate getting into these athletic debates. I watched Monroe play quite a bit, and he's far from an athletic specimen. As a matter of fact I put my money on Hawes in a foot race or in a jumping contest. That doesn't mean that five years from now Monroe won't be a better player.

If Monroe can play the center postion, then I'm not nearly as concerned about his athletic ability. But at the PF position, then yes I would be. JT is twice as Quick as Monroe. I just couldn't see Monroe out there trying to guard players like Stoudemire, Aldridge, Millsap, etc. However I think he would eventually be fine against the likes of Kaman or Gasol.

So thats what it comes down to with me. If he's a center, then you'd have to consider him at 5 if Cousins is gone. But if he's a PF, then no. I'd take Udoh in a heartbeat as a PF over Monroe. Udoh is a much better athlete. But I don't see Udoh as a center. Like JT, he could fill in there but I couldn't see him as a permanent fixture.

Monroe is a terrible offensive rebounder. He hauled in 254 defensive rebounds compared to just 74 offensive rebounds. Quite a disparity. And while he a very good passer and averaged 3.8 assists, he also averaged 3.2 turnovers. I guess we'll just have to see how he fares at the workouts.

I only think of Monroe as a center. 6'11" 250 at age 19. He's got a frame to get bigger. He will never be long or explosive for the position, but he will be a more coordinated athlete and should grow into it girth wise. (that's what she said.)
In terms of athleticism, whether Hawes can win a vertical contest or beat Monroe in a foot race I don't know. I kind of doubt it. But in terms of coordinated, reactive movement on a basketball court Monroe seems quicker and more effective.

As for the offensive boards, its true. However, I again cut him a tick of slack for the offense he was in.