Grant Napear wins Emperor's New Clothes award

[Bricklayer]

he did not openly criticize but criticized them in front of media people, who are well known for their secrecy, right? please.

just for preemption, i am not defending peja here. i am just saying that webber was not cut out to be a leader; he never was one. vlade was the leader, the moment he was gone, the process of dismantling started.

1) Webber criticized Peja (we are guessign there BTW) ONCE, immediately after a devastating Game 7 playoff loss. Cry me a feucking river. Hey, at least somebody was upset about it.

2) We were a 50 win team WITHOUT Vlade. No longer elite (not all Vlade's absence but part of it). But a damn good team. No, it was quite clearly the rest of the changes LAST year that took the bulk of the starch out of the franchise.

Last year happened people. And we got a good look at what the team would look like without Vlade + with the one-kneed man leading it. We were not eliter, but we were still a Top 10 team in the NBA. Still a 50+ win squad. And now we are most clearly not.

 

[twocents]

And again -- where were you LAST year?

Because you are missing something and going back to the final 30 games of 03-04 for evidence is more than a little ridiculous.

We were 32-20 at the pont Mr. Webber was traded last year, and 03-04 has absolutley nothign to do with it. Meanwhile we are 14-20 this year. So so long as we go on a wonderful 18-0 win streak right now, you'll have a leg to stand on.

Meanwhile BTW, the ONLY major player on our roster who might have wanted him gone is having a worse year than ever. Webb is winning more than we are. And he's played in more games while putting up bigger numbers than his replacement at PF (no dig at SAR, just a fact).

you cannot compare webber's performance in phili with sar's performance here. webber is playing alongside ai, dalembert, iguodala. he does not have to do much except for setting a decent box-out to rebound. he does not have to carry the burden of the offensive load, nor does he have to create for others. his surrounding is simply better than sar's surrounding in the kings. of course, sar never was at the level of webber any time in his career. i am just saying that i highly doubt webber putting up the same kind of numbers if he were still with the kings.

 

[Bricklayer]

you cannot compare webber's performance in phili with sar's performance here. webber is playing alongside ai, dalembert, iguodala. he does not have to do much except for setting a decent box-out to rebound. he does not have to carry the burden of the offensive load, nor does he have to create for others. his surrounding is simply better than sar's surrounding in the kings. of course, sar never was at the level of webber any time in his career. i am just saying that i highly doubt webber putting up the same kind of numbers if he were still with the kings.

And how/why could you possibly come up with that? He put them up last year while he WAS on the Kings. Bigger numbers in fact. 21.0pts 9.7rebs 5.5ast and coming off a player fo the month at the time he was traded a year ago. Now he looks healthier than he did last year, but somehow he was going to put up smaller numebrs than he does wiht A.I.? Quite the opposite -- when you play with A.I. you have to take whatever shots he gives you whenever he decides to give them to you. Don't think there is a good scorer in history who has scored MORE because he was playing alongside A.I.. Let alone getting the sassists (hard to do without the ball), or rebounding (largely independent).

 

[kupman]

Why is the 03-04 season irrelevant? We were one of the best teams in the league before the all-star break.

 

[twocents]

1) Webber criticized Peja (we are guessign there BTW) ONCE, immediately after a devastating Game 7 playoff loss. Cry me a feucking river. Hey, at least somebody was upset about it.

2) We were a 50 win team WITHOUT Vlade. No longer elite (not all Vlade's absence but part of it). But a damn good team. No, it was quite clearly the rest of the changes LAST year that took the bulk of the starch out of the franchise.

Last year happened people. And we got a good look at what the team would look like without Vlade + with the one-kneed man leading it. We were not eliter, but we were still a Top 10 team in the NBA. Still a 50+ win squad. And now we are most clearly not.

we are not guessing, the whole damn world understood it; he was criticizing peja AND miller. and for being upset, does others not talking about a loss or poor performance mean that they are not upset? there is no logical consequence here.

that the kings were still winning after the departure of vlade is called momentum or some sort of continuation, if you ask me. alienate your players and expect the same kind of performance. not gonna happen. peja, the preceding season had a stellar performance; webber disrespected his play by immediately trying to assert himself offensively. at that time, it was obvious that the kings needed webber's presence if they wanted a shot but not the way mr webber himself has anticipated. that was a terrible return from injury. i very much doubt whether the kings would be still a 50+ win team with webber but without sar, skinner, williamson (and maybe no bonzi); .500 probably.

 

[bigbadred00]

Go back and see what the Kings record was before and after Webber's return from the injury the year before we traded him. The Kings were playing really well without him. However, the big factor was his giant contract with a bad knee. It was a gamble and I think it was smart on GP's part given that many player's are never the same after that type of injury. This season is not abou the loss of Chris Webber - we are not very good without him and probably would not be very good with him.

Did you happen to forget at the same time Bobby went down and Brad got hurt, yet we still made it past the Mavericks and we took Minne (who had the #1 seed) to 7 games without Bobby and Brad not being as effective due to injury. I've read stats in the past but during the Webber stay, our team wasn't really effected record rise when Webber, Peja or Bibby were out, but when Bobby got hurt repeatedly, we would go from a 70% winning team to about a 50% winning team time and time again.

You can blame Webber for us not reaching the title that year but that's not entirely true. Yes he wasn't the Webber of years past but do you honestly believe, without Bobby and Brad being that effective we could have stood any where near the later rounds of the playoffs without C Webb.

Cwebb outplayed Peja tremendously that year. Even on 1 leg he shot better than Peja (45% to Peja's 38%)for a guy who is ragged about his PPS, he averaged more PPS than Peja.

Now Peja did paly decently in the playoffs last year without CWebb, thing is Peja doesn't make his teammates better at all. When Cwebb was on the Kings he made Bibby a MUCH better player, Christie definitely was better, Vlade better, Bobby better. Peja might be a great shooter, but he's not a great player. Webber might not be a great shooter or defender, but he was a great player in a Kings uniform.

I won't deny you the fact that the Kings with Bobby and without Webber 3 seasons ago were a pretty good team. I've read that we had an easy schedule (I don't remember). The fact remains though is we still made it past the first round of the playoffs with the guy, and we lost in the first round of the playoffs last year without the guy in pretty embarrasing fashion to say the least, letting "fat-daddy-scrub" tear us a new a-hole.

If you want to compare apples with apples look how effective McDyess was for the first couple of seasons back after a similar injury. Look how bad Allen Houston was and how bad Penny was. Now Webber might be selfish, but he did have his team in mind when he came back. Most great players are a little selfish.

 

[twocents]

And how/why could you possibly come up with that? He put them up last year while he WAS on the Kings. Bigger numbers in fact. 21.0pts 9.7rebs 5.5ast and coming off a player fo the month at the time he was traded a year ago. Now he looks healthier than he did last year, but somehow he was going to put up smaller numebrs than he does wiht A.I.? Quite the opposite -- when you play with A.I. you have to take whatever shots he gives you whenever he decides to give them to you. Don't think there is a good scorer in history who has scored MORE because he was playing alongside A.I.. Let alone getting the sassists (hard to do without the ball), or rebounding (largely independent).

selective reading, are you? he is rebounding better because others do not let their men escape and go for the offensive board. unlike miller or bibby, for instance. and yeah, if you have the potential, since ai will be demanding most of the defensive attention, he is likely to score more. passing does not go away with age; ask vlade. that is one category i don't expect to worsen with time.

and again, you cannot compare last year's stats to this year; he is one year older. he might seem healthier, but that is only because he does not have to do as much.

 

[bigbadred00]

we are not guessing, the whole damn world understood it; he was criticizing peja AND miller. and for being upset, does others not talking about a loss or poor performance mean that they are not upset? there is no logical consequence here.

that the kings were still winning after the departure of vlade is called momentum or some sort of continuation, if you ask me. alienate your players and expect the same kind of performance. not gonna happen. peja, the preceding season had a stellar performance; webber disrespected his play by immediately trying to assert himself offensively. at that time, it was obvious that the kings needed webber's presence if they wanted a shot but not the way mr webber himself has anticipated. that was a terrible return from injury. i very much doubt whether the kings would be still a 50+ win team with webber but without sar, skinner, williamson (and maybe no bonzi); .500 probably.

terrible returns from injury don't usually translate into round 1 playoff romps do they? terrible returns from injury also don't translate into forcing a game 7 against the team with the best record in the conference and a team that we could have easily beaten if we shut down Sam Cassell at the end of some of those games. You act like the team didn't play well in the playoffs? Did you not watch them? Yes Webber's last second 3 point attempt sucked, but he still played better than his leader apparent in Peja.

Yes we struggled for the remaining regular season, but we played well when it mattered. Do you honestly believe with healthy Malone and the Kings without Webber or Bobby we could have beaten the Lakers team that MAULED SA in 4 straight games. Give me a break. Maybe with Bobby we could have but that's a HUGE IF.

 

[nbrans]

And how/why could you possibly come up with that? He put them up last year while he WAS on the Kings. Bigger numbers in fact. 21.0pts 9.7rebs 5.5ast and coming off a player fo the month at the time he was traded a year ago. Now he looks healthier than he did last year, but somehow he was going to put up smaller numebrs than he does wiht A.I.? Quite the opposite -- when you play with A.I. you have to take whatever shots he gives you whenever he decides to give them to you. Don't think there is a good scorer in history who has scored MORE because he was playing alongside A.I.. Let alone getting the sassists (hard to do without the ball), or rebounding (largely independent).

I wouldn't say that SAR is "better" than Webber even at this stage of their respective careers, but if you believe the Hollinger stats, which I think can reveal a great deal, Webber's PER is 17.40, while SAR's is 18.82. Webber is benefitting a great deal from being the undisputed second option in Philly's offense even though he's shooting only 42% from the field. Add in defense and I don't think the difference is so vast between the two. Obviously Webber has the edge in rebounding and assists, but I don't think it's the gulf you make it out to be.

 

[kupman]

I don't know know how much time I want to spend on the pros and cons about the Webber trade. I have kind of moved on with my life as a Kings fan. All that I am trying to say is that it is very reasonable when a GM trades a player with a giant contract playing on a bad knee - so give GP and his apologists a break.

 

[FullAB]

Peja might be a great shooter, but he's not a great player. Webber might not be a great shooter or defender, but he was a great player in a Kings uniform.

an excellent point.....

 

[Bricklayer]

selective reading, are you? he is rebounding better because others do not let their men escape and go for the offensive board. unlike miller or bibby, for instance. and yeah, if you have the potential, since ai will be demanding most of the defensive attention, he is likely to score more. passing does not go away with age; ask vlade. that is one category i don't expect to worsen with time.

and again, you cannot compare last year's stats to this year; he is one year older. he might seem healthier, but that is only because he does not have to do as much.

No, I don't think you are understanding, and this is where I am aware that there are fans who just weren't paying much attention last year:

Webber last year for US (last year = 04-05):
21.3pts 9.7rebs 5.5ast 1.5stl 0.7blk

Webber this year for Philly (05-06):
19.5pts 10.2rebs 3.2ast 1.3stl 0.8blk

Where is the falloff? What exactly is being made easier? Its harder to shoot well when you shoot at A.I.'s leisure, not your own. You can't get assists because A.I. dominates the ball. The reboudning is pretty much sheer speculation, in particular since he is a grand total of 0.5 higher this year than last, and that while moving better and playing a coouple more minutes.

To say he was going to fall off dramatically for us, when he hasn't under considerably more difficult circumstances in Philly, is the sheerest most baseless of speculation. Anything is possible. But there is not a shred of evidence to support it. In fact in an informal and highly unscientific sampling of Sixers games I have watched this year I would have to say that Webber's best moments for the Sixers come when he is on the floor and A.I. is not. When he is put back into the position as the main decisionmaker and captain for the young guys and reserves.

 

[bigbadred00]

selective reading, are you? he is rebounding better because others do not let their men escape and go for the offensive board. unlike miller or bibby, for instance. and yeah, if you have the potential, since ai will be demanding most of the defensive attention, he is likely to score more. passing does not go away with age; ask vlade. that is one category i don't expect to worsen with time.

and again, you cannot compare last year's stats to this year; he is one year older. he might seem healthier, but that is only because he does not have to do as much.

I don't think the problem is SAR as a player. It's the team isn't as good with SAR than it was with Webber. SAR has shot the ball very well, he has rebounded a little below average. Thing is Bibby and SAR don't run the pick and roll that well. SAR isn't an above average PF defensive, and Brad is one of the worst defensive centers in the game albeit he is also an outstanding shooter and passer. I'm not saying Brad + Webber is going to be that much better.

Personally I feel we need a defensive monster ala Ben Wallace in the middle who we will never get to bring the help D that we so much need. SAR was only a small stop gap in plugging the hole that Webber left. He doesn't bring leadership, he doesn't know the system as well. Personally I think SAR is a pretty damn good player, but in the Eyes of Kings fans he's got HUGE shoes to fill. Our expectations were sky High with Vlade and Company over the last couple of seasons that this season is a terrible compared to alls expectations.

 

[twocents]

terrible returns from injury don't usually translate into round 1 playoff romps do they? terrible returns from injury also don't translate into forcing a game 7 against the team with the best record in the conference and a team that we could have easily beaten if we shut down Sam Cassell at the end of some of those games. You act like the team didn't play well in the playoffs? Did you not watch them? Yes Webber's last second 3 point attempt sucked, but he still played better than his leader apparent in Peja.

Yes we struggled for the remaining regular season, but we played well when it mattered. Do you honestly believe with healthy Malone and the Kings without Webber or Bobby we could have beaten the Lakers team that MAULED SA in 4 straight games. Give me a break. Maybe with Bobby we could have but that's a HUGE IF.

you seem to be overplaying bobby's part, but that is another issue.

as for the playoff performance, i am conjecturing that if webber had made a smooth transition without panicking to show "who da man" was, their outing would have been better.

and for la mauling the spurs, some miracle .3 catch and shoot shot was the only difference between the two (each won their respective home games). la, despite all the hype, was not "that" strong.

 

[bigbadred00]

Wow your obviously not much of a Kings fan two cents. Overplaying are you freaking serious? The guy when healthy has always been our best player off the bench. He brings hustle, intensity and alot of heart. He also plays much better D than Bibby ever has. Our team always struggles without the Guy. Do you want me to go stat searching, I'll present you with fact that Kings minus alot of our stars had no effect on the team but the Kings without Bobby Jackson havent' been that great of a team.

the fact still remains that the Kings were probally not better than the Spurs or the Lakers without Bobby or Webber or did you see how stupid and how bad Anthony Peeler played that year. Obviously you missed it.

 

[twocents]

No, I don't think you are understanding, and this is where I am aware that there are fans who just weren't paying much attention last year:

Webber last year for US (last year = 04-05):
21.3pts 9.7rebs 5.5ast 1.5stl 0.7blk

Webber this year for Philly (05-06):
19.5pts 10.2rebs 3.2ast 1.3stl 0.8blk

Where is the falloff? What exactly is being made easier? Its harder to shoot well when you shoot at A.I.'s leisure, not your own. You can't get assists because A.I. dominates the ball. The reboudning is pretty much sheer speculation, in particular since he is a grand total of 0.5 higher this year than last, and that while moving better and playing a coouple more minutes.

To say he was going to fall off dramatically for us, when he hasn't under considerably more difficult circumstances in Philly, is the sheerest most baseless of speculation. Anything is possible. But there is not a shred of evidence to support it. In fact in an informal and highly unscientific sampling of Sixers games I have watched this year I would have to say that Webber's best moments for the Sixers come when he is on the floor and A.I. is not. When he is put back into the position as the main decisionmaker and captain for the young guys and reserves.

so he does not play well in ai's presence but plays well with second stringers, against second stringers. woop-tee-doo; he dominates the backup players of the other team and leads the backup players of his team. how is this any indication on he would perform on the kings when he would be going against the starting lineup's of the other teams?

 

[kingsfannPDX]

Why is the 03-04 season irrelevant? We were one of the best teams in the league before the all-star break.

yeah but our team was stacked that year and we had an identity. vlade was still here and during the REGULAR season we were good enough to hold down the best record while we knew our LEADER was coming back! why don't you mention that the team without webber couldn't win with home court advantage against dallas???

 

[twocents]

Wow your obviously not much of a Kings fan two cents. Overplaying are you freaking serious? The guy when healthy has always been our best player off the bench. He brings hustle, intensity and alot of heart. He also plays much better D than Bibby ever has. Our team always struggles without the Guy. Do you want me to go stat searching, I'll present you with fact that Kings minus alot of our stars had no effect on the team but the Kings without Bobby Jackson havent' been that great of a team.

the fact still remains that the Kings were probally not better than the Spurs or the Lakers without Bobby or Webber or did you see how stupid and how bad Anthony Peeler played that year. Obviously you missed it.

nope, actually i did not miss. peeler was no bobby jackson; sure thing. jackson was the key to the kings' success; hell no. he was an important piece but not as important as say webber or bibby or peja for that matter.

 

[bigbadred00]

So Webber can't play against the Starters on the other team with all but AI playing? Do you think before you write at all. All he is saying is that it is hard to play with AI on the court. This has been proven seriously a million times. Honestly, Webber has had the best performance as AI's second hand man than anyone previous.

The fact remains that when everyone said Webber dominated the ball we were still #2 in the league in scoring. And I don't believe Philly has any problems scoring the ball either this year, it's stopping the other team when it has the ball is the big problem.

 

[thesanityannex]

I can't believe the Webber trade is still being discussed.

 

[Bricklayer]

so he does not play well in ai's presence but plays well with second stringers, against second stringers. woop-tee-doo; he dominates the backup players of the other team and leads the backup players of his team. how is this any indication on he would perform on the kings when he would be going against the starting lineup's of the other teams?

That quite clearly was not my point, but I'm not sure its even worth arguing with you over, because I get the overwhelming feeling that there are several people in this thread who simply have not been paying much attention since 03-04 and are arguing without any basis except reasonably ancient history and prejudices.

Its really very simple:

1) Webb put up 21pts 10rebs 5ast last year for us. This very team.
2) And we were winning. A lot. Our big concern at the time was whether we were still elite or not. Wondering if we were ever going to see .500, and if it was even worth it to try, was about as far from anyboody's mentality as it could get.
3) Now Webber looks leaner, moves better, is no longer missing the occasional game with knee soreness. And he's still putting up 20pts 10rebs 3ast.

Attempts to somehow squeeze that orange and come out with "Webber would have fallen off for us" or "its impossible for a PF to rebound, assist, score 20 for this team" or whatever the hell else you want to add to that list, is just ridiculous. Wishful thinking. And at several points here clearly very hoary thinking with people basing their last knowledge of Webb on the hobbling player trying to rush back from major injury at the end of 03-04. Two years ago, and an entire age ago in terms of Kings basketball.

 

[bigbadred00]

nope, actually i did not miss. peeler was no bobby jackson; sure thing. jackson was the key to the kings' success; hell no. he was an important piece but not as important as say webber or bibby or peja for that matter.

do you see the point, Webber comes back and at the same things Bobby gets hurt. so at the same time were trying to find a way to replace bobby (which we really never have when he's hurt), we are also trying to replace Webber back into the lineup. Without bobby we don't have a spark off the bench. And that year his 13.8 ppg off of the bench were surely missed for the last 32 games of the season. Bobby scored more ppg than Christie or Vlade. No I'm not going to argue he was the most important piece, I'm going to argue the team had the hardest time replacing the guy when he got hurt.

When Cwebb is hurt we have had excellent replacements for him. Songalia and Brad come to mind and in the past Keon and Scott. When Bibby was hurt for a huge chunk of a season, Bobby stepped up and we started the season 20-6 until he got hurt and then Damon stepped in his place. Vlade really hasn't gotten hurt all that much in a Kings uni. Christie was backed up by Bobby and by Jim Jackson.

The key point is of the injured prone players, who we had many of, the team succeed without Webb, or Bibby or even Peja. But we struggled mightly in for the stretches Bobby got hurt in, in comparison to when he was healthy.

 

[twocents]

So Webber can't play against the Starters on the other team with all but AI playing? Do you think before you write at all. All he is saying is that it is hard to play with AI on the court. This has been proven seriously a million times. Honestly, Webber has had the best performance as AI's second hand man than anyone previous.

The fact remains that when everyone said Webber dominated the ball we were still #2 in the league in scoring. And I don't believe Philly has any problems scoring the ball either this year, it's stopping the other team when it has the ball is the big problem.

depends on your role really. mckie was playing well. so was snow. remember the time when they made it to the finals.

ai had never ever a player of webber's caliber before. so it is somewhat redundant to say that webber has been the best sidekick to ai. of course, he would be and he is.

read one of my previous posts where i tried to itemize the issues regarding webber's trade. there, i pointed out that the major problem with webber in was the defense and rebounding. skinner was probably perceived as a remedy to this. it failed miserably, mostly due to adelman's dislike of skinner's game, for one reason or other.

 

[twocents]

That quite clearly was not my point, but I'm not sure its even worth arguing with you over, because I get the overwhelming feeling that there are several people in this thread who simply have not been paying much attention since 03-04 and are arguing without any basis except reasonably ancient history and prejudices.

Its really very simple:

1) Webb put up 21pts 10rebs 5ast last year for us. This very team.
2) And we were winning. A lot. Our big concern at the time was whether we were still elite or not. Wondering if we were ever going to see .500, and if it was even worth it to try, was about as far from anyboody's mentality as it could get.
3) Now Webber looks leaner, moves better, is no longer missing the occasional game with knee soreness. And he's still putting up 20pts 10rebs 3ast.

Attempts to somehow squeeze that orange and come out with "Webber would have fallen off for us" or "its impossible for a PF to rebound, assist, score 20" or whatever the hell else you want to add to that list, is just ridiculous. Wishful thinking. At several points here clearly hoary thinking with people basing their last knowledge of Webb on the hobbling player trying to rush back from major injury at the end of 03-04. Two years ago, and an entire age ago in terms of Kings basketball.

item 1 is a fact: no dispute there.
item 2 is fact and observation : i concur.
it is the third item that we don't see eye to eye. those numbers mean squat unless he is with a team similar to the kings and he assumes a role that is akin to the role he would assume with the kings. so, those numbers i do neglect, if that is your point. same with his athletic abilities. less wear and tear when you are not running the show, so easier to not reinjure yourself.

 

[bigbadred00]

Hmmmm....

Philly tried DC, didn't work.

Philly tried Hughes, didn't work (worked better than others though).

Philly used Deke has the #2 guy, he didn't do much offensively but he did get them into the finals.

Philly again tried DC.

Philly tried KVH.

Philly did win games. But I didn't say it, the papers have said Webber has meshed Well with AI. ALthough their attendance hasn't been that great because of this.

you bring up the problem with webber was his defence. I'm not going to argue that. the thing is the guys we got in return, are not going to fix all of the problems on the team especially when Skinner (who I like) offensively is like a black hole and when the team has a bunch of offensive juggarnauts like we do, it isn't exactly going to work when your running a high post offence.

the fact remains is the Kings defence that much better than last year? Not really at all. Is Phillies that much better or worse? Not really.

 

[twocents]

Hmmmm....

Philly tried DC, didn't work.

Philly tried Hughes, didn't work (worked better than others though).

Philly used Deke has the #2 guy, he didn't do much offensively but he did get them into the finals.

Philly again tried DC.

Philly tried KVH.

Philly did win games. But I didn't say it, the papers have said Webber has meshed Well with AI. ALthough their attendance hasn't been that great because of this.

you bring up the problem with webber was his defence. I'm not going to argue that. the thing is the guys we got in return, are not going to fix all of the problems on the team especially when Skinner (who I like) offensively is like a black hole and when the team has a bunch of offensive juggarnauts like we do, it isn't exactly going to work when your running a high post offence.

the fact remains is the Kings defence that much better than last year? Not really at all. Is Phillies that much better or worse? Not really.

i would have guessed that philly's would be worse.
as for not using skinner, i really don't know. can't a coach devise a new scheme where he has one or two hustle players who do not really take part in offensive sets? bibby and miller keep doing the pick and roll; you really don't need skinner there, do you? or setting screens for peja? or letting bonzi go one on one on the low post? tell skinner to concentrate on boards and defense. what is wrong with that? you need to have workhorses; finesse does not get you anything when it comes to defending the paint.

 

[nbrans]

the fact remains is the Kings defence that much better than last year? Not really at all. Is Phillies that much better or worse? Not really.

Actually, Kings' defense is exactly where it was last year, when they had Webber for the majority of the season. Opp FG % of 45.9% last year, 45.9% this year. But Philly's defense is much worse, Philadelphia's defense has gone from an opp FG% of 44.2% last year to 46.4%.

What does this mean? Who knows. It's strange. You'd think the Kings would get a bounce from him leaving if the Sixers' defense is on the decline.

I'd say judging from numbers on 82games.com, Brad's defense has gotten much worse this year for whatever reason, so the benefit from Shareef's defense compared to Webber's is balanced out by worse defense from Brad. Not sure if Webber is entirely to blame for the Sixers' defensive woes, but given that they have three above-average defenders in the lineup (AI, Iguodala, Dalemebert), Webber sort of stands out, along with Korver obviously.

 

[Bricklayer]

item 1 is a fact: no dispute there.
item 2 is fact and observation : i concur.
it is the third item that we don't see eye to eye. those numbers mean squat unless he is with a team similar to the kings and he assumes a role that is akin to the role he would assume with the kings. so, those numbers i do neglect, if that is your point. same with his athletic abilities. less wear and tear when you are not running the show, so easier to not reinjure yourself.

So let me see if I have this straight.

1) Webber puts up big numbers last year, which is a rather clear argument he could have done it again this year.
2) Furthermore, Webber is putting up big numbers again THIS year, which is an even clearer argument that he could do it this year.

but

3) you choose to ignore all that and claim that he could not put up big numebrs again on...principle? Hope? Speculation?

As long as we have that clear, I suppose their isn't much to discuss really.

 

[Warhawk]

I can't believe the Webber trade is still being discussed.

Thank you.

 

[Warhawk]

I don't know know how much time I want to spend on the pros and cons about the Webber trade. I have kind of moved on with my life as a Kings fan. All that I am trying to say is that it is very reasonable when a GM trades a player with a giant contract playing on a bad knee - so give GP and his apologists a break.

And thank you.