[Grades] Grades v. Warriors 12/22/2014

If George Karl took over this team tommorow, could he get us to the playoffs now?

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 17.3%
  • No

    Votes: 36 48.0%
  • Not unless we also make one of these major trades

    Votes: 26 34.7%

  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#31
This game killed me from jump. Corbin was yelling "push it, push it" every possesion. Grant and Jerry were commenting on it as well. Trying to out run possibly the best running by team in the NBA is insane.
You know, when I was younger I used to be a good tennis player. Started when I was young, may have even been my first sport, or right there with soccer, long before I took up football and basketball. Played it into college. I remember one summer I was playing local tournaments, and I had won a couple, and went into a tournament late int he summer ranked either #2 or #3. Forget which. Do remember being insulted that I was expected to lose in the semi's to this big guy with a big forehand ranked lower than me, so I ran him ragged and forced him to retire with cramps 2 1/2 hours into the match on a 100 degree day. Anyway, #1 seed was a lefty I had seen play but never faced. First, I always hated playing lefties. Second, he was better than me. I knew it going in. I could feel it in warmups. But it was the Finals, there was a small crowd, I had my pride, and so I came out the first set firing. And so did he. It was actually one of the best sets of tennis I was ever involved in. There were some great points. I smoked some big winners, I had my Boris Becker diving onto the ground game going which crowds always got a kick out of. It was fun, it was entertaining. Except for this little fact: I was losing. I don't remember whether it ended up 3-6 or 4-6, but either way, I played some of the best tennis of my life, and he was still a little better. I hit it hard, he hit it harder. And really, that wasn't me. That was my ego, but I was always a tactical player. And so I sat there between sets, and I came to a decision. I could either keep on going that way, have a fun, fast, hard hitting loss which would entertain. Or I could get smart and try to think my way out of it. So I came out in the second set, and I took all the pace out of the ball. I hit underspins, topspin lobs, moonballs, drop shots, but absolutely nothing that would let him get in any rhythm. And I found weakness on his backhand. If I hit a big heavy moonball to that side, he couldn't handle it if it kicked up around his shoulder. The match got really really ugly, but ugly was always where I lived, and so I dinked and I lobbed and chose erratic points to suddenly serve and volley, and I completely mucked up the game. More importantly I completely mucked up his game. I couldn't outhit him, so instead I did everything in my power to never give him anything in rhythm. And it worked. 3 sets later, I won. I won ugly, but I won. It wasn't about ego. It wasn't about style. It wasn't about being better than him. It was about doing absolutely exactly the opposite of what my opponent wanted to do, and it was about winning. Vivek and his toadies, and possibly even Corbin if he's bent over for him, should consider that lesson.

If you play the Golden State Warriors, and you run, you lose. You might get style points, we did not even get those, but you might. But you lose. You might entertain, we did not, but you might. But you lose. So unless you're an idiot you don't do that. Not when you have one of the league's great muck up the game options in your lineup. No, you play the Warriors, you should be doing absolutely everything in your power to make the game absolutely fugly, rhythmless, and paceless. You should be slugging it out, getting to the line, intentionally fouling them to stop breaks. Calling timeouts on any run, running the shotclock down, pounding it inside, and if you've got it in you, flipping in and out of zone defenses to boot. You should be doing absolutely everything in your power to muck up the game, and make them uncomfortable and unhappy to be there. You want to make it miserable. And out of that misery, maybe you can steal one. But running up and down the court with them going "wheeee!!!"? Yelling "push it push it"? That's asinine. That's style over substance. That's ideology over practicality. And in the end, that's losing.
 
#32
You know, when I was younger I used to be a good tennis player. Started when I was young, may have even been my first sport, or right there with soccer, long before I took up football and basketball. Played it into college. I remember one summer I was playing local tournaments, and I had won a couple, and went into a tournament late int he summer ranked either #2 or #3. Forget which. Do remember being insulted that I was expected to lose in the semi's to this big guy with a big forehand ranked lower than me, so I ran him ragged and forced him to retire with cramps 2 1/2 hours into the match on a 100 degree day. Anyway, #1 seed was a lefty I had seen play but never faced. First, I always hated playing lefties. Second, he was better than me. I knew it going in. I could feel it in warmups. But it was the Finals, there was a small crowd, I had my pride, and so I came out the first set firing. And so did he. It was actually one of the best sets of tennis I was ever involved in. There were some great points. I smoked some big winners, I had my Boris Becker diving onto the ground game going which crowds always got a kick out of. It was fun, it was entertaining. Except for this little fact: I was losing. I don't remember whether it ended up 3-6 or 4-6, but either way, I played some of the best tennis of my life, and he was still a little better. I hit it hard, he hit it harder. And really, that wasn't me. That was my ego, but I was always a tactical player. And so I sat there between sets, and I came to a decision. I could either keep on going that way, have a fun, fast, hard hitting loss which would entertain. Or I could get smart and try to think my way out of it. So I came out in the second set, and I took all the pace out of the ball. I hit underspins, topspin lobs, moonballs, drop shots, but absolutely nothing that would let him get in any rhythm. And I found weakness on his backhand. If I hit a big heavy moonball to that side, he couldn't handle it if it kicked up around his shoulder. The match got really really ugly, but ugly was always where I lived, and so I dinked and I lobbed and chose erratic points to suddenly serve and volley, and I completely mucked up the game. More importantly I completely mucked up his game. I couldn't outhit him, so instead I did everything in my power to never give him anything in rhythm. And it worked. 3 sets later, I won. I won ugly, but I won. It wasn't about ego. It wasn't about style. It wasn't about being better than him. It was about doing absolutely exactly the opposite of what my opponent wanted to do, and it was about winning. Vivek and his toadies, and possibly even Corbin if he's bent over for him, should consider that lesson.

If you play the Golden State Warriors, and you run, you lose. You might get style points, we did not even get those, but you might. But you lose. You might entertain, we did not, but you might. But you lose. So unless you're an idiot you don't do that. Not when you have one of the league's great muck up the game options in your lineup. No, you play the Warriors, you should be doing absolutely everything in your power to make the game absolutely fugly, rhythmless, and paceless. You should be slugging it out, getting to the line, intentionally fouling them to stop breaks. Calling timeouts on any run, running the shotclock down, pounding it inside, and if you've got it in you, flipping in and out of zone defenses to boot. You should be doing absolutely everything in your power to muck up the game, and make them uncomfortable and unhappy to be there. You want to make it miserable. And out of that misery, maybe you can steal one. But running up and down the court with them going "wheeee!!!"? Yelling "push it push it"? That's asinine. That's style over substance. That's ideology over practicality. And in the end, that's losing.
Did you coach the basketball team of your daughter too? Maybe you got some wisdom to share with Vivek! ;)
 
#34
Two coaches that had the Kings playing well.

Adelman who was eventually fired because he did not coach defense (supposedly).

Malone who was fired due to philosophical differences with the FO.

Different owners, different era but the same result.

They snatched defeat from victory:(
Adelman being let go is sort of interesting. While under contract the Maloofs reached out to Phil Jackson the summer before, he also did not bother returning most of the Maloof phone calls after that. Basically said what are they going to do fire me? But they want to talk to Phil and act like jackasses, screw them.

I can respect Rick for that a lot actually.
 
K

KingMilz

Guest
#35
I think the thing that made us so successful when we went 5-1/9-5 before the illness was the fact we were a slow team (who actually played D), everyone in the L is trying to play faster and play stretch 4's that it's now becoming easier and easier to guard that style since it's the common thing, thus making what we did and what the Memphis Grizzlies did much harder to prepare for and play against. I can't think of any other team's that run there game through the post as much as us or the Grizz the main difference being the Grizz are a elite defensive team while we under Malone were solid.

Our style off play a lot of the time put teams off, we were beating them up and not letting them run on us, we were not playing bruise free basketball slowing the game down not allowing other teams to get there normal pace going. No one wants to get banged around in the paint over the course of 48mins it's just not fun. Our style to me allowed us to cover up the fact we have a). Terrible ball movement, b). Lack of shooting c). not much shot blocking, now that we are not playing D and trying to push it up means all those things are getting exposed.

Honestly just about every other team in the NBA is better built for running than us and we are now trying to compete with that where as aside from the Grizzlies no one else can bang it out down low with us.
 
#38
This game killed me from jump. Corbin was yelling "push it, push it" every possesion. Grant and Jerry were commenting on it as well. Trying to out run possibly the best running by team in the NBA is insane.
It sounded so far from genuine coming from him. Guaranteed someone has a gun to his head forcing him to preach that BS.
 
#39
No NBA team will play defense without a coach that holds them accountable.

Their defense is gone now that Malone got fired. Looks like so is their will to win.

I wouldn't blame the players at all for quitting on the team. This franchise is ran by a ridiculous mess of idiots who literally know less than the common forum poster here. I mean we all like to play armchair quarterback but this is the first time where I can recall the people that run the team to actually know less about the game of basketball than the average fan.

And to think these guys are making hundreds of thousands and millions to sit around making these decisions. What a joke.
 
#40
I just want to add, that I enjoyed watching the Kings punishing other teams with sheer physicality. Guys were coming out to do the work. These games against Portland, Clippers, Denver, Spurs were entertaining. Hell, even that first loss to the Grizzlies was pretty much entertaining!
 
#44
Listen to the genius himself.

"It wasn’t about wins and losses,” D’Alessandro said. “I didn’t really care about what our record was. It’s about who we want to be, what we want our identity to be as a team.”

Winning? Losing? Meh, who cares, right?
Seriously, that type of comment from a GM in any competitive sport should lead to him being fired on the spot.

What the hell is it about if not wins and loses? What are we doing here if not to win? What the hell are you smoking, Pete?!
 
#45
You know, when I was younger I used to be a good tennis player. Started when I was young, may have even been my first sport, or right there with soccer, long before I took up football and basketball. Played it into college. I remember one summer I was playing local tournaments, and I had won a couple, and went into a tournament late int he summer ranked either #2 or #3. Forget which. Do remember being insulted that I was expected to lose in the semi's to this big guy with a big forehand ranked lower than me, so I ran him ragged and forced him to retire with cramps 2 1/2 hours into the match on a 100 degree day. Anyway, #1 seed was a lefty I had seen play but never faced. First, I always hated playing lefties. Second, he was better than me. I knew it going in. I could feel it in warmups. But it was the Finals, there was a small crowd, I had my pride, and so I came out the first set firing. And so did he. It was actually one of the best sets of tennis I was ever involved in. There were some great points. I smoked some big winners, I had my Boris Becker diving onto the ground game going which crowds always got a kick out of. It was fun, it was entertaining. Except for this little fact: I was losing. I don't remember whether it ended up 3-6 or 4-6, but either way, I played some of the best tennis of my life, and he was still a little better. I hit it hard, he hit it harder. And really, that wasn't me. That was my ego, but I was always a tactical player. And so I sat there between sets, and I came to a decision. I could either keep on going that way, have a fun, fast, hard hitting loss which would entertain. Or I could get smart and try to think my way out of it. So I came out in the second set, and I took all the pace out of the ball. I hit underspins, topspin lobs, moonballs, drop shots, but absolutely nothing that would let him get in any rhythm. And I found weakness on his backhand. If I hit a big heavy moonball to that side, he couldn't handle it if it kicked up around his shoulder. The match got really really ugly, but ugly was always where I lived, and so I dinked and I lobbed and chose erratic points to suddenly serve and volley, and I completely mucked up the game. More importantly I completely mucked up his game. I couldn't outhit him, so instead I did everything in my power to never give him anything in rhythm. And it worked. 3 sets later, I won. I won ugly, but I won. It wasn't about ego. It wasn't about style. It wasn't about being better than him. It was about doing absolutely exactly the opposite of what my opponent wanted to do, and it was about winning. Vivek and his toadies, and possibly even Corbin if he's bent over for him, should consider that lesson.

If you play the Golden State Warriors, and you run, you lose. You might get style points, we did not even get those, but you might. But you lose. You might entertain, we did not, but you might. But you lose. So unless you're an idiot you don't do that. Not when you have one of the league's great muck up the game options in your lineup. No, you play the Warriors, you should be doing absolutely everything in your power to make the game absolutely fugly, rhythmless, and paceless. You should be slugging it out, getting to the line, intentionally fouling them to stop breaks. Calling timeouts on any run, running the shotclock down, pounding it inside, and if you've got it in you, flipping in and out of zone defenses to boot. You should be doing absolutely everything in your power to muck up the game, and make them uncomfortable and unhappy to be there. You want to make it miserable. And out of that misery, maybe you can steal one. But running up and down the court with them going "wheeee!!!"? Yelling "push it push it"? That's asinine. That's style over substance. That's ideology over practicality. And in the end, that's losing.
That was a great post, enjoyed the read. Cheers.
 
G

GQ_Gabriel

Guest
#46
Seriously, that type of comment from a GM in any competitive sport should lead to him being fired on the spot.

What the hell is it about if not wins and loses? What are we doing here if not to win? What the hell are you smoking, Pete?!
Jesus, our roster was a mess. They inherited a team that needed A TON of work, and still does. At the time, there was no chance that any roster move, unless involving LeBron James, would catapult us into any playoff discussion. The FO did the smart thing to do by using the inaugural season to build towards an identity, mold the roster, and develop a core of players who would be apart of our future.
 
#47
how long before cuz demands a trade with all the charades going on. any wagers?



where are all the peeps that say give the regime more time? crickets chirping.
I don't foresee that for a couple of years, but I do see him reverting back to frustrated cuz on the court if there's a lack of direction.
 

kingsboi

Hall of Famer
#48
From the opening tip we stood no chance and that was obvious with the way the Dubs were moving the ball and getting whatever they wanted. You could obviously tell Cousins was starting to fatigue quickly with the up and down pace and that doesn't help things when you also have him be your anchor on defense. It's amazing how night and day this team is compared to a month ago and it's sickening at the same time...it was fun watching Kings basketball when we were known to be a physical pound it inside team but unfortunately for the team and the fans, it wasn't fun enough. Also, Cousins has every right to go back to playing how he was since the front office obviously doesn't care about wins and losses.
 
#49
Jesus, our roster was a mess. They inherited a team that needed A TON of work, and still does. At the time, there was no chance that any roster move, unless involving LeBron James, would catapult us into any playoff discussion. The FO did the smart thing to do by using the inaugural season to build towards an identity, mold the roster, and develop a core of players who would be apart of our future.
The thing is, we already had an identity, and one that seemed to work and suit our guys, too - and brought results prior to our superstar being down injured, with a 9-6 record in the West, playing the toughest schedule in the entire NBA up until that point.

What they did is take that identity, destroy it completely, and now they're attempting to build a totally different one not because it suits our roster (cause it doesn't) - not because it shows potential to garner more wins (cause it doesn't) - but only and strictly because that's how THEY want to see the team play.

I'm sorry but when a General Manager of a professional sports team - be in Football, Soccer, Basketball, Hockey or what have you - says HE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT WINNING, BUT THE STYLE IN WHICH THE TEAM PLAYS - he needs to be fired on the SPOT.

That is a completely idiotic sentence that has no place in pro sports. IT'S ALL ABOUT WINNING.

Greg Popovic played an ultra defensive shove-it-down-your-throat type basketball when his team was built to support it.
He then quickly made a complete 180 and changed his style to a run-run-run move the ball shoot threes type basketball, cause, surprise - his team was built to support it.

Know why? Cause unlike that idiot GM of ours, Pop's only ideology and preferred style in basketball is WINNING. Doesn't matter how, doesn't matter when. WINNING.
 
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#51
Jesus, our roster was a mess. They inherited a team that needed A TON of work, and still does. At the time, there was no chance that any roster move, unless involving LeBron James, would catapult us into any playoff discussion. The FO did the smart thing to do by using the inaugural season to build towards an identity, mold the roster, and develop a core of players who would be apart of our future.
vivek also began the season by saying that he was going to judge the team on wins and losses. then his gm directly contradicts him by saying it's not about wins and losses. and vivek actually sided with his gm, an ex-lawyer and former player agent, rather than his head coach, a basketball lifer who was getting legitimate and competitive results from a limited roster. mike malone had built an identity for this team, and it was a winning identity until big cuz was struck with meningitis, but because that identity didn't mesh with the gm's vision (despite the idiocy of that vision relative to the roster that the gm had assembled), malone was fired. sounds to me like the team was finally clawing it's way out of its mess, but was dragged right back down into the muck by a spiteful front office and an owner who doesn't know any better...
 
#52
You want to make it miserable. And out of that misery, maybe you can steal one. But running up and down the court with them going "wheeee!!!"? Yelling "push it push it"? That's asinine. That's style over substance. That's ideology over practicality. And in the end, that's losing.
This with the cornerstone of the Kings franchise just recovered from spinal meningitis on the second night of a back to back. Boogie was running on E and the fools want to run.
 
#53
vivek also began the season by saying that he was going to judge the team on wins and losses. then his gm directly contradicts him by saying it's not about wins and losses. and vivek actually sided with his gm, an ex-lawyer and former player agent, rather than his head coach, a basketball lifer who was getting legitimate and competitive results from a limited roster. mike malone had built an identity for this team, and it was a winning identity until big cuz was struck with meningitis, but because that identity didn't mesh with the gm's vision (despite the idiocy of that vision relative to the roster that the gm had assembled), malone was fired. sounds to me like the team was finally clawing it's way out of its mess, but was dragged right back down into the muck by a spiteful front office and an owner who doesn't know any better...
I agree Vivek made a huge error by not trusting in his own decision to hire Malone. In these past days I have read here Malone described as a product of the Detroit Bad Boys basketball system. Malone was getting the most from the guys this season and Pete, Mullin and Vivek mistook those early season results for an actual solid roster.

We are all now waiting to see Pete's next 4 moves. I suspect this is not lost on Vivek.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
#54
Spacing and ball movement, a beautiful thing to watch.......on the Warriors. At times Kings defended well for couple of possessions but then it goes away. No idea why. Maybe Corbin is trying some new things and modifying sets so lets give it time against some normal teams.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#55
Jesus, our roster was a mess. They inherited a team that needed A TON of work, and still does.
To the extent that this is true, let's not completely no-sell the fact that they are responsible for how this team looks right now. There are only two players on the team that were here when they got here; everybody else is somebody they chose.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#56
If you play the Golden State Warriors, and you run, you lose. You might get style points, we did not even get those, but you might. But you lose. You might entertain, we did not, but you might. But you lose. So unless you're an idiot you don't do that. Not when you have one of the league's great muck up the game options in your lineup. No, you play the Warriors, you should be doing absolutely everything in your power to make the game absolutely fugly, rhythmless, and paceless. You should be slugging it out, getting to the line, intentionally fouling them to stop breaks. Calling timeouts on any run, running the shotclock down, pounding it inside, and if you've got it in you, flipping in and out of zone defenses to boot. You should be doing absolutely everything in your power to muck up the game, and make them uncomfortable and unhappy to be there. You want to make it miserable. And out of that misery, maybe you can steal one. But running up and down the court with them going "wheeee!!!"? Yelling "push it push it"? That's asinine. That's style over substance. That's ideology over practicality. And in the end, that's losing.
And funny enough, the only team to beat GS since Nov 11th is Memphis, probably the best team at doing exactly that across the league and a team who likely would beat GS in 5 or 6 if they matched up the in the playoffs.

And the team who beat GS over a month ago on Nov 11th? The Spurs.
 
G

GQ_Gabriel

Guest
#57
It's almost harder to endure this season as opposed to past seasons. 2010, 2011, 2012. Those years were definitely hard to watch, but realistically there was no hope that those rosters would even scratch the playoffs. Now we have a team that has legitimately showed signs of togetherness, team basketball, and potential. This hurts. ):
 
#58
This with the cornerstone of the Kings franchise just recovered from spinal meningitis on the second night of a back to back. Boogie was running on E and the fools want to run.
Exactly what I thought too. Our only advantage is the recovering Cousins...sooo OUR plan is to use up his strength runing up and down the court instead of killing the warriors inside. Smart gameplan they came up with there :(
 
#59
I can't wait to watch the Warriors crash and burn during the playoffs. This running around jacking up shots garbage is going to come crashing down to earth hard. I wonder how Vivek will defend that? Probably think it is an abberation.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
#60
I just want to add, that I enjoyed watching the Kings punishing other teams with sheer physicality. Guys were coming out to do the work. These games against Portland, Clippers, Denver, Spurs were entertaining. Hell, even that first loss to the Grizzlies was pretty much entertaining!
The crazy thing? While our owner and GM are foolishly attempting to speak for the fanbase and tell us what we want to see, during our 9-5 start I've never seen the entire fanbase as excited as they were since the Adelman years.

The fanbase loved it! The fanbase absolutely was excited about our more smash-mouth style which few could match-up against. All we really had to do was add to the bench, get a better backup PG and a defensive 3rd big and we were well on our way. That's it.

And we threw it all away as these con artists attempt to tell us, the entire fanbase that we actually don't like what we're seeing and we actually prefer a different style, and winning need not matter.

Never been so insulted as a fan. I don't think it's lost on the players either. They're not stupid. They know their best chance at success was just stolen from them. PDA and Vivek are the Grinch who stole Christmas, only they've stolen more than that. They stole the entire upwards momentum of a franchise who's sucked for a decade as well as stole a year, maybe more of our players' careers.