Grades v. Timberwolves 11/07

Which kid do you wish had gotten more minutes?

  • Spencer Hawes

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Jason Thompson

    Votes: 52 59.1%
  • Donte Greene

    Votes: 16 18.2%
  • All of them

    Votes: 13 14.8%
  • None of them

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    88
  • Poll closed .
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Salmons ( A- ) -- aggressive to start, and benefitting from Miller's presence and willingness to hit guys who moved. Made a great open court defensive play that when you saw it on replay was maybe not as great as it first looked -- went up one on one and blocked a Corey Brewer breakaway attempt, but looked like Brewer had already lost the ball before John got to it. Still good hustle. Strong third helping us pull away, and got the better of the dream matchup (for him) against Mike Miller all night. Second straight game as the engine that powered the Kings. One minor issue -- is our SF now, not an OG, and 3rebs in 38min ain't cutting it.

Moore ( B+ ) -- in the early going picked right back up where he left off last game with energy on the glass and follow finishes. Ran under several people to draw fouls as well, but it should be noted that Kevin Love was unimpressed with the defense and powered through Mikki for a big first half. After half was mostly sticking jumpers, and the boardwork dried up. Got caught one time making a fool of himself, as he celebrated a made basket with all the usual chest thumping finger wagging nonsence...as the Wolves released a guy right past him for the easy fastbreak basket back the other way. Has obviously been giving hackmaster lessons to the other bigs -- as a crew our froncourt racked up a remarkable 20 fouls tonight, and Mikki didn't even lead us.

Miller ( A- ) -- made a real difference in his first game back. Early on got Love to bite badly on one of those up fakes and was looking for cutting guards per usual. Was cleaning the defensive glass against a Wolves team that starts two PFs and has nobody bigger than a tweener forward off the bench. Comtributed to getting Love in foul trouble, which was key in that he was the one T-Wolves player kicking our butt for most of the night. Did not have any real problem wiht Jefferson, who got into early foul trouble and turned in a drab performance tonight. Managed to even in a game where everything went smoothly for him, and his first game back, pick up one of his dumb drustraton fouls. Unfortunately you can clearly see the problem with having Brad Miller on this rebuilding team after only one game -- only played 26min, but took those 26min directly out of the hides of Spencer and Jason, reducing the latter to little more than garbagetime minutes. That is up to our GM to resolve. In Petrie I :rolleyes:

Martin ( B ) -- extremely inefficient 9-23 39% shooting outing by Kevin's standards (or at least previous standards -- pretty close to his season percentages this year), but really not a terrible one. Was very determined to shoot in the early going. Some success, but began to get scruffy and the points dried up. Had a nice and one one to finish the first half though. Kept on firing after the break, but to shaky results. Racked up points, but in a role reversal was maybe the one guy who should have been taking fewer shots given how easy it was for everybody else (was the only King who shot less than .500). Didn't miss gimmes exactly, but was just challenged enough to throw him off. On the other hand was by far our leading assistman on a night when nobody else got more than three (though Spencer and Brad both passed well), and the Wolves gave him a night off on the defensive end by starting offensively inept Corey Brewere, and then trotting out Rashad McCants in one of his lightswitch off funks. I decide to go B here because Kevin played a better rounded game than is his wont to help balnce the crappy shooting, but am aware of how ridiculous it is to be tossing around A's and B's like candy on a night when our grand accomplishment was beating a terrible team at home. Right on that B/B- border.

Udrih ( B- ) -- welcome to the 2008-09 season Beno. Quiet start, got a steal, threw up an airball. Came on in the second quarter, getting his offesnive game rolling and smoothly popping for little jumpers against minimal (to be kind) defensive pressure. Had a few more hits in the second half, and took care of the ball this time out. Of course its easier to take care fo the all when you just keep it in your own hands. Moved the ball around the perimeter, but rarely attempted passes that would actually lead to points (and when he did, they did not), and finished wiht a not-quite-so-rounded-PG statline of 15pts 1reb 1ast. But hey, at least the offense was back on line. Baby steps.

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Hawes ( A- ) -- came in three point bombing again, but otherwise extremely active off the bench in the first and settled down and decided to play like a big man rather than a Peja. Was briefly paired with Brad, but quickly picked up his third foul. After returning in the second half took advantage of Minnesota's super-stubby backup bigs in the late third/early 4th and shot over them at will inside. Strong game benefitting from the Wolves really not having any centers, and only two guys who are even true PFs. Packed all of the stats of a full starter's minutes game into a 7th/8th man's minutes (22), but also limited himself with foul trouble again. They are effort fouls, which trumps Mikki's fllailing or Brad's frustration flailing, but he needs to get those under control to strengthen his should-be-starting argument.

Brown ( B ) -- basically got the backup OG minutes tongiht behind Kevin, and was more reliable this time out than Douby often is. Asked to shoot, and he loves to shoot. Quickly knowed down a three, and followed it with another hit. Hit another three, but otherwise quiet in his second half stint. Was fine defensively.

BJax ( B- ) -- pretty good minutes this time out. With the alarmingly empty early season minutes I've been struggling to find a grade scale to reflect where Bobby is at at this point in his career, so maybe this was better for him than a B-. Not sure yet. Hit a three, helped a bit on the galss, played pretty well alongside the other Bobby.

Thompson ( C+ ) -- the dark side of Brad being back and starting, and Mikki playing well? Jason doesn't get in until the 1:30 minute mark of the first quarter. Hustled off the bench of course. But would have been stuck with a grand total of 4:51 in the first half until he got lucky with us suffering maasive front line foul trouble -- Brad, Mikki AND Spencer all had to get three to get Jason back on the court. After half it was a little bizarre. Already squished by Brad/Mikki, Reggie then passed him over for Shelden in the rotation? Jason did not get back in the game until garbagetime. You knew there were goignt o be consequences when Brad returned -- another reason he has to go, like yesterday. But no way would I have expected one of the most impressive rookies thus far this season to be instantly garbagetimed because of it. What gives? The little we saw of his game itself was just ok, but hard to get much of a feel in basically three 3+ minute sints.

Williams ( B- ) -- only got in in the last couple minutes of the first half with the foul trouble and looked to be the biggest lsoer of them all with Brad's reappearance. but then suddenly Reggie jumped him ahead of Thompson in the rotation in the 2nd half and he finished the game with more minutes than our #1 pick? He looked fine out there in his minutes (fine being a way of saying they were totally nondescript), and so stubby are the Wolves backups that Shelden was comapratively a tower, but...wth?

Greene ( INC ) -- really made incredible strides in his long 1 minute 33 seconds of garbagetime action. I am thinking if we keep on giving him 1:33 every couple of weeks this kid could be an All Star by February. Scored his one hoop on a nice drive. Nothing else of note.

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Theus ( B ) -- A solid win, an entertaining win for the most part, and yet a win that leaves you feeling uneasy about the future of our young guys. Now it of course has to be said that the Wolves ain't much -- they have beaten exactly one team this year, and that was us. But we largely dominated this one, and could do pretty much whatever we wanted on offense. Shot 55% for the game, racked up 121 points. Should have been a party. Even the 109 we gave up was a tad deceptive this time -- we certainly weren't goign to scare anyone except the Timberwolves with the defense we were playing, but it was good enough that the Wolves only shot 43% and how they kept up for most if the night was a bit of a mystery. And yet there was a notable darkside to this one: Brad is back. And Brad played well. And wee played well. But nobody is interested in watching Brad play anymore. In fact barely 10,000 total showed up to watch the Kings play at all. Brad is the past. Mikki is the past. We have got all sorts of futures on the team, but all of a sudden they were thrown back to the ebnch, back to garbagetime, and we resembled the same ludicrous let's-chase-the-#8-seed-with-middling-vets crew we did last year. Spencer goes from emerging starting center to 22minute backup. As far as can be told, Jason Thompson, the #3 rookie (statistically) coming into this game, might have played a rgand toital of less thna 5 minutes had it not been for extreme frontline foul trouble, and then garbagetime at the end. And bizarrely even was dropped back behind Shelden Williams i the roation inthe second half. For what? Why? Donte Greene actually got to play more than normal. Which is to say he played 1minute 33 seconds. And all of a sudden it did not feel like a rebuild so much as the same ole same ole that has fully half of Arco's once rabid fans disguised as seats at this point. Not sure if the solution lies with Reggie, or wth Geoff -- when you get right down to it Brad played only 26 minutes last night, and yet it changed the tone entirely. Nothing short of his complete absence opens up al those frontline development minutes. And its also true that I frequently make fun of single-issue voters, and will not become one here myself. Nonetheless there is no -- NONE -- more important issue for the rebuilding Sacramento Kings than youth development -- all of our future hopes rest upon it. And while we succeeeded in securing the win, we largely failed at our primary mission tonight. So that gets reflected in this grade.
 
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I think the better question I think is. What's more important; winning a few more games this season or developing our young guys more? Because at this point I think a couple of games are not going to get us in the playoffs.


it might EF with our lottery chances like a couple years back w/ oden..
 
I had no problem with the minutes tonight. I think Reggie balanced things nicely. A couple of wins now and then are what gives the players hope...and they try harder to improve their games.

The minutes for Jason will come. Developing players doesn't mean throwing them out onto the court just to give them minutes. You want to bring them along and build their confidence and their game acumen.

I think Reggie is doing a good job of working on a kind of balance.
 
Hey Bricklayer, I am interested in viewing how YOU would like Reggie to balance the rotation, detailing how many minutes each player should get.

I would like Hawes to get around 25-30 minutes a game, Thompson to get 20-25 minutes, and Greene to get 10-15minutes realistically.
 
I can't fault Coach Theus tonight for giving or not given any certain "kid" more minutes after listening to his post game news conf. He said JT seemed a little out of it as a result of a cold or soar throat that had him losing his voice. He went on to say that having a solid rotation of 4 "bigs" now set is a great problem to have as the team goes forward.
 
At the moment, I'm angry. I'm happy about the win, but not about Jason sitting on the bench. Love is starting. O.J. Mayo is starting, Rose is starting. I could go on but I won't. I can only assume that the Kings are such a good team that a very good rookie can't possibly start. Not only can't he start, he's basicly delagated to garbage time.

I watched Reggie's press conference after the game and he almost spit all over himself trying to explain why Jason didn't play more. Mumbled something about he looked tired tonight. How would he know? He wasn't out there long enough to tell. OK, I've vented. I'll feel better tomorrow. I just want Reggie to remember who the future of this team is. By the way, Miller looked good and Hawes had a nice game. Ditto Salmons.

I'm going to go drink now...
 
I had no problem with the minutes tonight. I think Reggie balanced things nicely. A couple of wins now and then are what gives the players hope...and they try harder to improve their games.

The minutes for Jason will come. Developing players doesn't mean throwing them out onto the court just to give them minutes. You want to bring them along and build their confidence and their game acumen.

I think Reggie is doing a good job of working on a kind of balance.

Well, from the looks of it I wasn't the only one who though Jason got injured or something. I left for awhile, came back, still no Jason so I figured something happened.

And aren't "rebuilding" teams supposed to do exactly that?
 
im not mad at jasons minutes... its just one game. hawes played well and got tons of minutes which is surprising since miller back. if he didnt have so many fouls he probably wouldve played more. it was nice to see hawes and miller playing together.
 
we could not blame reggie giving less PT for these kids as he will try to get more wins which our vets is more capable of. he would need a job security as recession is on the way. its now up to his staff how quick they could turn around our young's potentials. let us hope to see increasing playing for donte and jason. i believe, spencer has secured his spot and lets hope to see more promising spencer on the coming games.

GO KIDS, GO KINGS.
 
Hawes ( A- ) -- came in three point bombing again, but otherwise extremely active off the bench in the first and settled down and decided to play like a big man rather than a Peja.
I used to think harshly of this part of his game, but I'm not nearly as critical now when I see Spencer taking a three.

Spencer's shot selection from the perimeter is consistently impeccable, and I doubt he's ever taken a shot from downtown that was ill-advised or contested at all. In this recent game against Minnesota, he took one three that didn't have a defender within 10 feet; he missed his other attempt, but still had an awful lot of daylight. He wound up missing, but the pass was also at his ankles and he had to bend down to pick up the ball.

If Spencer averages around 1.5 three point attempts per game (and no more), it'll be fine. He has a beautiful stroke that consistently finds the bottom of the net, and I cannot fault him for taking shots that are THAT wide open.

His perimeter shooting habits would be a concern if he relied on them, but he doesn't. If he's not wide open outside, he'll generally flash inside off a screen and set up in the post and call for the ball; the vast majority of his shots are ones he takes inside.

The only concern I could have about his perimeter shooting habits are that it takes a lot of long-range shooting practice to stay proficient at it, and I just wonder if that time in the gym could be better allocated to more rebounding practice or inside offensive work.
 
Mikki needs to be traded ASAP. Reggie can't control himself.

And I suppose the kings should do the same thing they did with K9 and just sit him indefinitely... yeah that worked out(sarcasm noted).

Seriously people, the more games Mikki has like this and and the game before, the better the chances are that the Kings will be able to put him in some sort of trade package and clear the way for the kids. What we sometimes forget is that while we do want to see the young bigs get significant minutes, sooner rather than later, they, unlike Mikki, WILL be here for quite ahilwe, and WILL be apart of the future of the Kings. Mikki won't. But why not play him now, shop him around and see what you can get. The rest of his contract isn't unreasonable, and I'm sure there will be teams that will be attracted to a player like Mikki(energy big coming off the bench, good teammate, veteran, etc.).

Oh and by the way Bricklayer, Mikki didn't guard Love much last night, he was on Al Jefferson most of the time(Grant and Jerry even pointed that out). At least from what I saw, and hopefully, from what other teams that might take Mikki in a trade saw.
 
The only way for a player to build confidence and get better is through playing in real games. JT needs to play about 15 to 20 minutes per game and at least five minutes per stint. Otherwise, he will always feel that he is in a rush to make something happen while on court.
 
The only way for a player to build confidence and get better is through playing in real games. JT needs to play about 15 to 20 minutes per game and at least five minutes per stint. Otherwise, he will always feel that he is in a rush to make something happen while on court.

Exactly. JT is already better than Mikki. He should at absolute worst be splitting minutes with Moore. Even then, I might still be wondering what is going through Reggie's head.
 
At the moment, I'm angry. I'm happy about the win, but not about Jason sitting on the bench. Love is starting. O.J. Mayo is starting, Rose is starting. I could go on but I won't. I can only assume that the Kings are such a good team that a very good rookie can't possibly start. Not only can't he start, he's basicly delagated to garbage time.

I watched Reggie's press conference after the game and he almost spit all over himself trying to explain why Jason didn't play more. Mumbled something about he looked tired tonight. How would he know? He wasn't out there long enough to tell. OK, I've vented. I'll feel better tomorrow. I just want Reggie to remember who the future of this team is. By the way, Miller looked good and Hawes had a nice game. Ditto Salmons.

I'm going to go drink now...

I feel ya about JT. But on a positive note, Spence looks greatly improved so far this year. I know some people were worried how he would respond and play coming off of the bench, but him and Brad really compliment each other nicely. I hope it means more good things to come! The last two games have been a lot of fun to watch, even though against lowly opponents at home. We'll take it though after the rocky aweful start on that 4 game road trip.
 
Jeez!!! It's the beginning of the season, folks. Sure, I'd like to see more JT, but sitting, watching, and feeling part of the team...as well as good practices is also getting him ready for the "big show." Have patience! He will get his minutes. Just don't expect a rookie (unless he is a top pick) to start right out with 25 - 30 minutes a game. If he continues to show improvement in practice, he will get more minutes. As he gets more minutes, he will then work into the starting rotation. He is the PF of our future...not the PF of our today. He's a rookie. If the coach makes him earn it, he'll work harder with better results for our Sacramento Kings.

It's all good. :)
 
If Reggie wanted to cut JT's minutes....FINE.

However, there's no way and no excuse you can put JT behind Shelden in the rotation.

When a player that didn't even fit in with the Hawks is stealing minutes from our future, that's when I get frustrated.

When you are a crappy team, that's "rebulding" and you draft top 15, and your starting PF is Mikki Moore...YOU PLAY YOUR ROOKIE.
 
Brad starts period. It's only one game with him back and it was the first game in which Mikki played even a little like he should. But if he beats his chest one more time after a score while his man dances down the court for an uncontested layup, we may not see him as much real quick. But would seem that Hawes is the first big off the bench then JT when Hawes slides over for Brad.

We're all excited about the possibilities but it takes time. So what if Love, and the other rookies are starting? Memphis has 3 rookies starting. But none of those teams has the 5 starters the Kings have now.

Let's see who is starting to put together more wins than losses in the 10-15 game period in early December among those starting rookies. And the Spurs likely will be down for the count this year, the Mavs are slipping, Hornets were expected to be better early, etc. so lets suck it up for another 6-8 games and see where Reggies re-build takes them. Learning a new scheme much less the triangle is tough enough but at least his cast of functional characters is better now than at any time in the past 4-5 years.

I'm happy the way it's going. Concerned for sure but happy 2 games into home stand.
 
If Reggie wanted to cut JT's minutes....FINE.

However, there's no way and no excuse you can put JT behind Shelden in the rotation.

When a player that didn't even fit in with the Hawks is stealing minutes from our future, that's when I get frustrated.

When you are a crappy team, that's "rebulding" and you draft top 15, and your starting PF is Mikki Moore...YOU PLAY YOUR ROOKIE.

Jason Thompson got smacked hard in the face TWICE within a short period of time. He may well have been seeing double, etc. as I'm pretty sure I already noted here somewhere - or in the PBP thread.

So yes, there can be and most likely was a reason (not an excuse) for putting him behind Shelden for that game.

In addition? I think Theus wants to be completely comfortable with us not resigning Shelden, so he's going to give him enough looks to make sure. And I don't have a problem with that, either.

Rebuilding isn't a one or even two year project most of the time. If you're frustrated now, you're going to be ready for the padded room before it's over...
 
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