Grades v. Sonics 04/29

[Team Dime]

Peja did a great job last night despite his lack of scoring. There were not many assists, and he nevr took the ball down-court. The fact is, that between Bibby, Bobby, Mobley, and Brad, Peja had relatively few touches. The guards were throwing it up with gay abandon. There were a number of times that Peja was just standing there wide-open on the wing as Bibby or Mobley took it to the basket or fired-up deep jumpers. Peja completely neutered Lewis, as Lewis neutered Peja. We won.

I'm raising Peja's grade from "B-" to a solid "B".

We'll see what kind of grade Peja deserves after the playoffs are over.

 

[SIR HENRY 8]

We are so used to Peja being a scorer....and for years, not so hot on defense. Actually, I was rather proud of Peja last night. His offense was clearly off. So, most of the time he kept his defender away from the action and didn't try to do too much on that end since others were obviously coming through. C'mon, we scored 116 pts with Peja only having 12. We obviously didn't need him much on that end of the court.

About Defense....Peja has earned the right to be called a pretty decent defender. He has worked hard on that part of his game and it shows. To hold Lewis to 9 pts was a battle. And, it was not just last night. Lewis is being held way under average for the series.

Maybe it is time to start grading Peja with a different eye. He was a tremendous asset last night....not at all times, but he was definitely a useful part of this win. I give him a B-

I thought the same about Peja,offence not to good ,defence,he took Lewis out of game,and that is a big contribution,IMO.

 

[Venom]

I want to clarify my earlier post about Peja's defense, because some people are trying to make him into a first team All-NBA defender. Peja's defense is horrible. He has no clue on defense, and is absolutely lost in a team scheme. HOWEVER, if there is a guy like Lewis out there, who won't post up, and is not looking to create for teammates, then Adelman can tell Peja to faceguard him all night and deny the ball. But that is the only contribution Peja can make on defense. So, good effort by him, probably deserves a C, C-. But HUGE props to Adelman for taking the advantage of the one defensive skill that Peja does have, allowing the rest of the D to focus on other areas.

 

[BigWaxer]

I thought the same about Peja,offence not to good ,defence,he took Lewis out of game,and that is a big contribution,IMO.

I agree with that but on the flip side we let JJ take up the slack on their offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

This is what its come to -- Peja Stojakovic 12pts 3rebs 0ast 0stl 0blk 30% shooting. Grade: B. Ha!!


What is that? An exception player? Maybe not even that. Peja has stayed in front of Lewis, meanwhile he has ZERO steals and 1 block for the ENTIRE series. Last night how many shots of Lewis's did he actually alter? 2? 3? Maybe. The rest of the time he was just there. Did he ever take the ball away from him? No. Its better defense than Biobby pays, but this myth of the stopper is ridiculous. Peja is playing stopper defense on Lewis about as much as Lewis is playing stopper defense on Peja, which is to say he's not.


I've long ago gave up grading Peja on a superstar or even potential superstar scale. The constant string of C's, D's and F's would get old. But this is still theoretically a STAR player. Or not maybe. Look at the line above. "B" my ***. I wonder at the point that becomes his "B" exactly what it would take for him to get less than a "C"? 8pts 1 reb on 3-12 -- C+. Maybe 5pts 0rebs on 1-15 is a C-.

Now its possible that Peja's miserable play every postseason has finally worn people down so far that they are going to grade him on the Fred Hoiberg scale. Its possible. Lower expectations far enough and you can be a relative hero every night. But I think its far mroe likely that Kings fans are desperate enough to make a hero out of their guy that it doesn't matter how small the accomplshment, they will seize upon it. So what o you think -- think Sonics fans are singing the praises of Rashard right now for bring his B (or maybe in his case B-) game last night?

 

[6th]

B- it shall remain for me, Brickie. Besides, you know I grade a whole lot easier than you do. Hell, puttin on the jersey gets you a C in my class.

 

[VF21]

Its better defense than Biobby pays...

Is that Bibby or Bobby or a new combination name to refer to BOTH #10 and #24?

 

[VF21]

Hell, puttin on the jersey gets you a C in my class.

They do have to have it right side out, though, yes?

And the team name has to be on the front?

 

[6th]

They do have to have it right side out, though, yes?

And the team name has to be on the front?

Bwahahahahaha!!! Yes, the jersey must be worn "correctly" to get the C.

 

[bozzwell]

This is what its come to -- Peja Stojakovic 12pts 3rebs 0ast 0stl 0blk 30% shooting. Grade: B. Ha!!
....

Now its possible that Peja's miserable play every postseason has finally worn people down so far that they are going to grade him on the Fred Hoiberg scale.

Brick was the first to invoke the name of Fred Hoiberg in Pedja "argument". I forgot, does that mean that Brick wins the argumend or does it mean that the whole universe and all existence will sieze to be?

While, we're waiting for the answer, I'd like to chime in. Not just because I have a soft spot for Fred (he looks like an indentical twin of my younger brother). I've been familiar with Mayor's game since he was a Bull. Now, here is a guy who (with Bulls) made less salary then some IT contractors I worked with (think late 90's, Y2K "issue"). Yet, he is a perfect professional and what some of us would call "hi character". Coming of the bench and playing limited minutes he has awesome efficiency (about the best in NBA) and he was the same way back when he played with some truly awfull Bulls teams (KG cannot take any credit for Mayors "improvements" - he waas always like that). However, his efficiency and overall contribution would lessen as his minutes would increase with Bulls. Just that kind of player, not a starter but a very, very usefull player coming off of the bench.

Back to Pedja. If you come to accept that Pedja's A game is anything in the range of his career stats (as a starter), that's fine. What are we talking: 20/5/1.5? Something like that. You don't except him to take over games, you don't excpect him to hustle for 10+ rebounds, you don't expect him to come up with double team busting laser-beam passes - you just want him to do his share. Then it is D+ for last nights game, based on stats. Based on intangibles, especially disciplined defence (where he clearly showed committment) and the fact that he did run himself ragged, you can adjust grade upward for half a grade to C or C-. For B, I need to see some assists and either better percentage or few more points.

 

[Bricklayer]

Brick was the first to invoke the name of Fred Hoiberg in Pedja "argument". I forgot, does that mean that Brick wins the argumend or does it mean that the whole universe and all existence will sieze to be?

A couple of years back I had a computer basketball sim (coaching/GM oriented rather than silly arcade stuff) and I chose to take over the Chicago Bulls (when Fred was still with them) because they were the worst team in the league and it would be the biggest challenge. Well, somebody got hurt, forgot who (think it was that chubby little PG out of UConn), but whoever it was left me a choice to etiher start A.J. Guyton at the PG, or to get radical and go with my best shooter. So Fred Hoiberg starting PG it was! (I soon realized that there was something slightly askew in their logarithms when Fred went on to average 2.5stls a game that year (I played him about 38mpg) and make First Team All-NBA defense.

 

[bozzwell]

A couple of years back I had a computer basketball sim (coaching/GM oriented rather than silly arcade stuff) and I chose to take over the Chicago Bulls (when Fred was still with them) because they were the worst team in the league and it would be the biggest challenge. Well, somebody got hurt, forgot who (think it was that chubby little PG out of UConn), but whoever it was left me a choice to etiher start A.J. Guyton at the PG, or to get radical and go with my best shooter. So Fred Hoiberg starting PG it was! (I soon realized that there was something slightly askew in their logarithms when Fred went on to average 2.5stls a game that year (I played him about 38mpg) and make First Team All-NBA defense.

Don't blame the sim. Bulls were coached by Tim Floyd at the time. It is entirely possible that Fred had it in him, but Floyd experince has drained him of mojo for the rest of his life.

 

[Bricklayer]

Don't blame the sim. Bulls were coached by Tim Floyd at the time. It is entirely possible that Fred had it in him, but Floyd experince has drained him of mojo for the rest of his life.

That's a LOT of mojo to have drained -- the Mayor should sue.

 

[AleksandarN]

A couple of years back I had a computer basketball sim (coaching/GM oriented rather than silly arcade stuff) and I chose to take over the Chicago Bulls (when Fred was still with them) because they were the worst team in the league and it would be the biggest challenge. Well, somebody got hurt, forgot who (think it was that chubby little PG out of UConn), but whoever it was left me a choice to etiher start A.J. Guyton at the PG, or to get radical and go with my best shooter. So Fred Hoiberg starting PG it was! (I soon realized that there was something slightly askew in their logarithms when Fred went on to average 2.5stls a game that year (I played him about 38mpg) and make First Team All-NBA defense.

By chance was the game called

 

[Padrino]

Back to Pedja. If you come to accept that Pedja's A game is anything in the range of his career stats (as a starter), that's fine. What are we talking: 20/5/1.5? Something like that. You don't except him to take over games, you don't excpect him to hustle for 10+ rebounds, you don't expect him to come up with double team busting laser-beam passes - you just want him to do his share. Then it is D+ for last nights game, based on stats. Based on intangibles, especially disciplined defence (where he clearly showed committment) and the fact that he did run himself ragged, you can adjust grade upward for half a grade to C or C-. For B, I need to see some assists and either better percentage or few more points.

this is a very reasonable assessment. i would agree with brick, and give peja the D+...but i agree with you about the way peja should be graded. i am of the opinion, tho, that peja didnt "shut down" rashard lewis. rashard lewis, like peja, shut himself down. frustrated by a little physical defense, both players took themselves out of the game entirely. both were, what, 2-10? 20 shots between two (theoretical) all stars? at times, it seemed neither wanted the ball. neither is confident in their game right now. as far as grading is concerned, had we lost, could anybody honestly give peja any less than a D+? all it is is a scale by which we measure each individual kings' performance, but i think brick is usually very accurate, and quite thorough, in his assessments. basically, if we're gonna go to the trouble of "grading" the kings, why should we "grade easy?" it serves no purpose if we're not objective...and NO player should be subject to exception.

 

[BigWaxer]

I've long ago gave up grading Peja on a superstar or even potential superstar scale.

I know this wasn't the point of your thread but I gotta get you on it...
From a past thread a few days ago Brick and you know you deserve this reply. "Superstar is semantics"


If we can get a superstar/elite player in the off season and also keep Peja then I think we will be in a lot better shape. Peja as a #2 or #3 option is the ticket IMO.


Right now people are looking for him to be the answer and that will not win us a ring.

 

[Rockmeister]

That was THE BEST game I have ever been to at Arco ... and I've been to a few playoffs games there.

The energy ... the emotion ... the intensity ... the focus .... now remember, I'm talking about the fans ... it was GREAT !!!!

I barely have my voice .... musta yelled DEFENSE at least a several hundred times.

It got so loud, I could not hear my daughter yellin' and screamin' right at me and she was sitting right next to me ... I WANTED MORE !!!!

ARCO gets an A+

I hope the Arco crowd will be just as LOUD on Sunday because I will be there at the game!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[kennadog]

I know this wasn't the point of your thread but I gotta get you on it...
From a past thread a few days ago Brick and you know you deserve this reply. Superstars are just semantics... J/K I am just being a Smart A from a previous post I made this week...

If we can get a superstar/elite player in the off season and also keep Peja then I think we will be in a lot better shape. Peja as a #2 or #3 option is the ticket IMO.

Right now people are looking for him to be the answer and that will not win us a ring.

Totally agree.

 

[kennadog]

I hope the Arco crowd will be just as LOUD on Sunday because I will be there at the game!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope so too Rock. If it is it will be an awesome night for you, just like Friday was for me.

 

[Bricklayer]

By chance was the game called

Hmm...don't think so. Any good? I haven't had one in a few years, but I'd love to find a good front office NBA sim -- not really very interested in just clicking fast and causing Brad Miller ot do a quintuple somersault dunk. Prefer to play Petrie against a good A.I.

 

[Bricklayer]

I know this wasn't the point of your thread but I gotta get you on it...
From a past thread a few days ago Brick and you know you deserve this reply. "Superstar is semantics"


If we can get a superstar/elite player in the off season and also keep Peja then I think we will be in a lot better shape. Peja as a #2 or #3 option is the ticket IMO.


Right now people are looking for him to be the answer and that will not win us a ring.

Well here's the thing, and the thing he still isn't proving now -- I'm not even sure you want him as your #2 option on a championship team. EVERY single playoffs he goes south. That's the last player you want to have on your team if you're trying to win a title rather than just 55+ in the regular season. Maybe a #3 behind two true #1 superstuds (he would be beautiful in Miami), but if you are in any way depending on him to score for you to be successful in the playoffs, his entire history shouts "you're in trouble".

By all rights this should have been the playoffs where he shook that career long pattern. And this should have been the series -- I was expecting fool's gold to a certain degree. The Sonics have no stoppers at SF, there is nothing stopping Peja but Peja. And here he is 15ppg 37% shooting yet again. You just can't have that from one of your main guns on a team with any shot at a title. (and no I don't think we had any shot this year anyway, so Peja is not costing us a title or anything, but if were to build a true contending team with him in a position where we're susposed to depend on him -- its the shakiest of all possible foundations, and quite frankly the rest of the team deserves better than to be saddled with that.)

 

[AleksandarN]

Hmm...don't think so. Any good? I haven't had one in a few years, but I'd love to find a good front office NBA sim -- not really very interested in just clicking fast and causing Brad Miller ot do a quintuple somersault dunk. Prefer to play Petrie against a good A.I.

It is a not a bad game. You might find it somewhere they stoped making it though. I love manager games I have Baseball Mogul(very good) and World Soccer Manager 2005(used to be called Championship Manager it the best Manager game out there)

 

[Bricklayer]

It is a not a bad game. You might find it somewhere they stoped making it though. I love manager games I have Baseball Mogul(very good) and World Soccer Manager 2005(used to be called Championship Manager it the best Manager game out there)

Ever tried OOTP (baseball sim)? Quite good independent product.

 

[AleksandarN]

Ever tried OOTP (baseball sim)? Quite good independent product.

No but I heard it is pretty good though. Do you know what the difference is between Mogul and OOTP?

 

[Bricklayer]

No but I heard it is pretty good though. Do you know what the difference is between Mogul and OOTP?

I've never tried Mogul, so can't help there. OOTP is quite remarkable for its GM mode (all the way down to simming all three levels of minors with full rosters, hiring coaches, minor league mangers, scouts, pretty much a full financial mode etc.), but as an indie project (although going progressively corporate the last few years) was always weaker for in game play. All the tactical stuff, just weak graphical support. But keeps on getting better every year.

 

[AleksandarN]

I've never tried Mogul, so can't help there. OOTP is quite remarkable for its GM mode (all the way down to simming all three levels of minors with full rosters, hiring coaches, minor league mangers, scouts, pretty much a full financial mode etc.), but as an indie project (although going progressively corporate the last few years) was always weaker for in game play. All the tactical stuff, just weak graphical support. But keeps on getting better every year.

Well I might give it a go. You should try Basball Mogul it is pure sim game. The only thing is that it does not have all of the features that OOTP has but by the sounds of your discription has better tatics. It is also pretty small time company aswell.

http://www.sportsmogul.com/baseballcd/

 

[funsc]

I hope to see similar grades next game

 

[chelle]

I hope to see some of the same grades, but I want some to be higher. I'm greedy that way!!

 

[Venom]

Well here's the thing, and the thing he still isn't proving now -- I'm not even sure you want him as your #2 option on a championship team. EVERY single playoffs he goes south. That's the last player you want to have on your team if you're trying to win a title rather than just 55+ in the regular season. Maybe a #3 behind two true #1 superstuds (he would be beautiful in Miami), but if you are in any way depending on him to score for you to be successful in the playoffs, his entire history shouts "you're in trouble".

By all rights this should have been the playoffs where he shook that career long pattern. And this should have been the series -- I was expecting fool's gold to a certain degree. The Sonics have no stoppers at SF, there is nothing stopping Peja but Peja. And here he is 15ppg 37% shooting yet again. You just can't have that from one of your main guns on a team with any shot at a title. (and no I don't think we had any shot this year anyway, so Peja is not costing us a title or anything, but if were to build a true contending team with him in a position where we're susposed to depend on him -- its the shakiest of all possible foundations, and quite frankly the rest of the team deserves better than to be saddled with that.)

Which is why I think he gets moved this offseason to a team with talent that thinks it needs one more scorer/shooter. Petrie really should have moved Peja a couple years ago after Webber had the injury. He was a HOT commodity then. I have no idea what Peja's value would be now. It could be that Artest would be the best offer, and he's severely damaged goods.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I agree with the grades, mostly. I might be tempted to bump Miller a half-grade higher, just for those teeth-rattling picks he set on Ridnour; those were a thing of beauty!

I might even lower Stojakovic's grade by a half, just because I think that his so-called defense on Lewis is counterfeit.