I think part of the reason we were such a good passing team was that the team had played together for so long. They had trust in each other and KNEW where each other would be, when they would be there, and what they were going to do. This team has not played together long enough to have that trust yet. Also, Adleman said that when we had Vlade, Webb, and Doug we had a much smarter team. All of that plays a part. I am not sure if the team is being selfish or if it is just a case of not trusting each other yet. Bibby passed to ball to Peja a lot tonight, he was just missing.
Grades v. Sonics 04/29
- Thread starter Bricklayer
- Start date
Well, I don't really agree. Peja played very good defense on Lewis and had a lot to do with Lewis not scoring. I specifically focused on Peja's defense during parts of the game (not the 1st time this year). Peja does a very good job of staying in front of his man, but also, when being posted up he did a great job of standing his ground. Some of the other Kings should take some lessons, because they sure have a hard time holding their ground with James. If other Kings are shooting well, I'll settle for a wash between Peja and Lewis.
As for Brad....he made a huge difference in the game, simply because he was there to play the high post pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop with Bibby. Adelman used him, Songaila and KT at the high post. And Bibby really ran Ridnour ragged off that high post offense tonight.
It was also clear that there were a lot more drives tonight by Bibby and Cuttino, but also by the high post players, especially Brad and KT. But when you have a lot more drives to the basket, that cuts down on assists. But a lot more free throws tonight. And the Kings aced it from the line tonight.
Adelman made a lot of adjustments for this game. I think he deserves a lot of the credit for this win, too.
As for Brad....he made a huge difference in the game, simply because he was there to play the high post pick-and-roll or pick-and-pop with Bibby. Adelman used him, Songaila and KT at the high post. And Bibby really ran Ridnour ragged off that high post offense tonight.
It was also clear that there were a lot more drives tonight by Bibby and Cuttino, but also by the high post players, especially Brad and KT. But when you have a lot more drives to the basket, that cuts down on assists. But a lot more free throws tonight. And the Kings aced it from the line tonight.
Adelman made a lot of adjustments for this game. I think he deserves a lot of the credit for this win, too.
Depending on what your expectations are, Pedja's grade is either spot on or just half-a-grade low. Basically, he cannot get an extra credit for playing good defence on Lewis because we've come to expect Pedja to be our only player that is defensively committed to his man throughout the game. As was pointed out (many times) Pedja doesn't have stopper's ability on defence (blocking, speed, athleticism) so he is really doing it by being disciplined and commited. That's credit to Pedja, but not enough to elevate him to B- or C+.
Especially tonight when he wasn't quite invisible, instead he rendered himself irrelevant for the most part by trying to outrun his marker on almost every posession. I mean, does he ever look at the tape of these PO games where he struggles? If the defender who is usually either more athletic or faster then him (or both) is shadowing him, Pedja trying to "run away" often ends up with Pedja running away from the play development. He really needs to time those little runs (whether there is a screen or not) better and maybe even run less, but run with purpose and in bursts. You may even call it being aggressive. Take a look first, see what defense is giving up (not necessarily your man - you know that he is following you) and run as and when needed. The worst case scenarion is that he will be in better position for offensive boards or to recover on defense.
Another thing that is starting to bother me is that he has not yet developed his passing game to the point that he can beat double teams by passing to an open man. He clearly can pass well in other situations but it seemed at times tonight that he was holding the ball for too long in the face of double team.
He probably deserves that C (or C-) because he did work hard on both ends, but on offensive end he just didn't play that smart. Vlade, Webb and DC are not coming back and neither is that free flowing game with laser beam passing any time soon, so he better get used to it.
Especially tonight when he wasn't quite invisible, instead he rendered himself irrelevant for the most part by trying to outrun his marker on almost every posession. I mean, does he ever look at the tape of these PO games where he struggles? If the defender who is usually either more athletic or faster then him (or both) is shadowing him, Pedja trying to "run away" often ends up with Pedja running away from the play development. He really needs to time those little runs (whether there is a screen or not) better and maybe even run less, but run with purpose and in bursts. You may even call it being aggressive. Take a look first, see what defense is giving up (not necessarily your man - you know that he is following you) and run as and when needed. The worst case scenarion is that he will be in better position for offensive boards or to recover on defense.
Another thing that is starting to bother me is that he has not yet developed his passing game to the point that he can beat double teams by passing to an open man. He clearly can pass well in other situations but it seemed at times tonight that he was holding the ball for too long in the face of double team.
He probably deserves that C (or C-) because he did work hard on both ends, but on offensive end he just didn't play that smart. Vlade, Webb and DC are not coming back and neither is that free flowing game with laser beam passing any time soon, so he better get used to it.
What I noticed:
Miller did a freaking great job setting picks for Bibby, to the point that he knocked Ridnour so hard to the ground that he seemed like he was crying on the bench. I wanna see a lot more of that if we are to make this a series.
Nobody on our team can guard Jerome James, he's looking more and more like Shaq the way he was knocking Miller around.
Peja was awful. Granted he was getting hounded by the sonics defense, but he wilted under the pressure again. Miller needs to start setting some screens for Peja as well cos an unopen Peja is pretty much a useless Peja.... actually he might be a liability.
Eventhough Allen score 30+ pts, I thought Cat's D on him was great throughout the game, he did lose some of his defensive intensity midway through the game when Ray Allen started going off, however I liked the way Cat pressured him all game.
Skinner was completety inefficient as Brick points out. He also quite a few turnovers and was really getting on my nerves at times. I thought RA might put Tag in when all the froncourt players were in foul trouble.... I guess not.
I loved the way all the players attacked the rim, we need to see a lot more of that throughout the series.
Miller did a freaking great job setting picks for Bibby, to the point that he knocked Ridnour so hard to the ground that he seemed like he was crying on the bench. I wanna see a lot more of that if we are to make this a series.
Nobody on our team can guard Jerome James, he's looking more and more like Shaq the way he was knocking Miller around.
Peja was awful. Granted he was getting hounded by the sonics defense, but he wilted under the pressure again. Miller needs to start setting some screens for Peja as well cos an unopen Peja is pretty much a useless Peja.... actually he might be a liability.
Eventhough Allen score 30+ pts, I thought Cat's D on him was great throughout the game, he did lose some of his defensive intensity midway through the game when Ray Allen started going off, however I liked the way Cat pressured him all game.
Skinner was completety inefficient as Brick points out. He also quite a few turnovers and was really getting on my nerves at times. I thought RA might put Tag in when all the froncourt players were in foul trouble.... I guess not.
I loved the way all the players attacked the rim, we need to see a lot more of that throughout the series.
In case you'd like to read the Seattle paper's articles. This links to one and then there's a place to link to several others, including a nice one saying the fans at Arco lived up to their reputation. Since I was there, I'll take the compliment personally. 
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002258353_soni30.html
Oh yeah...I love the pic of Bibby knocking over Fortson!
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002258353_soni30.html
Oh yeah...I love the pic of Bibby knocking over Fortson!
The thing to watch with Peja, which you don't usually see on TV and don't get from his numbers, is how much energy the defense puts into shutting him down. Every team the Kings go up against has to figure out how to keep him from getting his shots. If opponents treated Peja like a typical player he'd be good for 30+ a night. But he usually doesn't and that's because opponents do whatever they can to get other Kings to take those perimeter shots.
When Peja draws extra defense it opens up opportunities for other Kings. What Peja scores is only part of the story, it's the resources he consumes of the opponent that makes him so valuable. I'd give Peja a B+ tonight. I'll save the A for when he does put up better numbers and we win.
I'd give Miller an A. Miller is the leader of the team and the fact that the Kings didn't get their game together until he really played shows that. The thing we need to do against Seattle is rebound. We can out score Seattle, but only if we have the ball. The first two games was like watching Seattle play Horse at times. They'd take a shot, miss, get the rebound, take another shot, miss, get the rebound, and keep going till they got it. Sac then got the ball, would take their shot, miss and then not get the rebound. Miller and Tag break the Seattle rebound cycle and that is the true key to beating them.
The key to beating Seattle is to always have Miller or Tag in the game.
Sure, Tag, is a drag on the offense, but if you don't have the ball your offense doesn't do you much good. You can only score when you have possession, and Tag gets us possession. Tag doesn't just get us possesion by his actions, Seattle will have to play around him: Tag complicates the obvious play by his mere presence and thus forces more difficult plays by the opponent.
The winning combination for this series is to back Miller with Tag. If RA does that, Seattle will not be able to stop the Kings.
Again, Tag backs Miller, one of those two always on the court, the Kings beat Seattle.
I can't see how they can stop us if we give them a few less rebounds.
OK. Now I'm in ramble mode. Good win tonight. Team gets an A+ for getting the win.
When Peja draws extra defense it opens up opportunities for other Kings. What Peja scores is only part of the story, it's the resources he consumes of the opponent that makes him so valuable. I'd give Peja a B+ tonight. I'll save the A for when he does put up better numbers and we win.
I'd give Miller an A. Miller is the leader of the team and the fact that the Kings didn't get their game together until he really played shows that. The thing we need to do against Seattle is rebound. We can out score Seattle, but only if we have the ball. The first two games was like watching Seattle play Horse at times. They'd take a shot, miss, get the rebound, take another shot, miss, get the rebound, and keep going till they got it. Sac then got the ball, would take their shot, miss and then not get the rebound. Miller and Tag break the Seattle rebound cycle and that is the true key to beating them.
The key to beating Seattle is to always have Miller or Tag in the game.
Sure, Tag, is a drag on the offense, but if you don't have the ball your offense doesn't do you much good. You can only score when you have possession, and Tag gets us possession. Tag doesn't just get us possesion by his actions, Seattle will have to play around him: Tag complicates the obvious play by his mere presence and thus forces more difficult plays by the opponent.
The winning combination for this series is to back Miller with Tag. If RA does that, Seattle will not be able to stop the Kings.
Again, Tag backs Miller, one of those two always on the court, the Kings beat Seattle.
I can't see how they can stop us if we give them a few less rebounds.
OK. Now I'm in ramble mode. Good win tonight. Team gets an A+ for getting the win.
About the passing. . .Adelman seems to have simplified the offense, initiating everything with a high pick and fade, particularly when James is in the game. It was brutally effective, like when Ridnour got leveled. It creates more isolation and two man game stuff, so less possessions where all 5 players get a touch. But, due to inexperience and the current talents on this team, that's how we have to win. Once again, props to Adelman for adjusting during the off days.
Team get B +,only 14 as and 30 reb,thats not good,tonight was just good individual game couple of players and that is no way to win this serial.What will hapened when that shot be worse than 50 %.
This is for me still shaky,they must stop James finaly and get dominate on C position,make more passis,play stronger d.
This is for me still shaky,they must stop James finaly and get dominate on C position,make more passis,play stronger d.
Awesome Arco Arena !!!
That was THE BEST game I have ever been to at Arco ... and I've been to a few playoffs games there.
The energy ... the emotion ... the intensity ... the focus .... now remember, I'm talking about the fans ... it was GREAT !!!!
I barely have my voice .... musta yelled DEFENSE at least a several hundred times.
It got so loud, I could not hear my daughter yellin' and screamin' right at me and she was sitting right next to me ... I WANTED MORE !!!!
ARCO gets an A+
The guys played their hearts out ... I'm not gonna bad-talk anybody ... they all deserve the strokes (however ... Peja, good job on THE D ... let's get that O going).
That was THE BEST game I have ever been to at Arco ... and I've been to a few playoffs games there.
The energy ... the emotion ... the intensity ... the focus .... now remember, I'm talking about the fans ... it was GREAT !!!!
I barely have my voice .... musta yelled DEFENSE at least a several hundred times.
It got so loud, I could not hear my daughter yellin' and screamin' right at me and she was sitting right next to me ... I WANTED MORE !!!!
ARCO gets an A+
The guys played their hearts out ... I'm not gonna bad-talk anybody ... they all deserve the strokes (however ... Peja, good job on THE D ... let's get that O going).
Why not? First of all, don't underestimate defense on Lewis. He's their second best player, and Peja did a fantastic good job on him. 9 pts. on 2-10 shooting with 1 assist for someone who averages 20.5 points on 46% shooting. Meanwhile, Mike and Brad continue to make James and Ridnour look like all-NBA first teamers. 50% of the game is on the defensive end. Bricklayer gave our 4th highest scorer a B- tonight despite no defense (Brad); our best defender gets the same despite no offense.
Not to mention, Peja's shot was off tonight, and he became passive. Which is, to me, a good thing, especially considering how hot mike was and how Brad eventually got going for a while. I think Peja not taking a lot of shots was a smart move - remember, the Sonics spent a lot of practice yesterday working out defensive schemes to not let Peja get the ball in scoring positions, which, for example, left Brad open a lot (what, you think James was told to play off a decent jump-shooter just for the heck of it?).
Overall, though, good to see Mike get going, Brad beginning to look like his old self (right up to allowing the crowd to pressure him into taking open shots when he's looking to pass - always fun to watch the decision play out across his face), and great contributions from a couple of key players (Cuttino, Thomas).
One more and we're back in this thing! Go Kings!
Not to mention, Peja's shot was off tonight, and he became passive. Which is, to me, a good thing, especially considering how hot mike was and how Brad eventually got going for a while. I think Peja not taking a lot of shots was a smart move - remember, the Sonics spent a lot of practice yesterday working out defensive schemes to not let Peja get the ball in scoring positions, which, for example, left Brad open a lot (what, you think James was told to play off a decent jump-shooter just for the heck of it?).
Overall, though, good to see Mike get going, Brad beginning to look like his old self (right up to allowing the crowd to pressure him into taking open shots when he's looking to pass - always fun to watch the decision play out across his face), and great contributions from a couple of key players (Cuttino, Thomas).
One more and we're back in this thing! Go Kings!
We are so used to Peja being a scorer....and for years, not so hot on defense. Actually, I was rather proud of Peja last night. His offense was clearly off. So, most of the time he kept his defender away from the action and didn't try to do too much on that end since others were obviously coming through. C'mon, we scored 116 pts with Peja only having 12. We obviously didn't need him much on that end of the court.
About Defense....Peja has earned the right to be called a pretty decent defender. He has worked hard on that part of his game and it shows. To hold Lewis to 9 pts was a battle. And, it was not just last night. Lewis is being held way under average for the series.
Maybe it is time to start grading Peja with a different eye. He was a tremendous asset last night....not at all times, but he was definitely a useful part of this win. I give him a B-
About Defense....Peja has earned the right to be called a pretty decent defender. He has worked hard on that part of his game and it shows. To hold Lewis to 9 pts was a battle. And, it was not just last night. Lewis is being held way under average for the series.
Maybe it is time to start grading Peja with a different eye. He was a tremendous asset last night....not at all times, but he was definitely a useful part of this win. I give him a B-
The first 2 games, it seemed to me that Lewis' production or lack thereof had more to do with him than Peja. Lewis had a great shooting night the first game, not so hot the 2nd. Peja didn't really do anything different. I didn't see a change in intensity either. Lewis just missed the same shots he always takes.
This 3rd game, I'm rather uncertain. Peja definitely was pushing it more. He picked up some borderline fouls and really made an effort to keep on Lewis. There's no clear indication, but it looked like he bothered Lewis. He did get slipped by Lewis a few times (most notably in the 2nd quarter). But overall a better than expected job. At least that's what it looked like.
I'll give Peja a C-. The rest of his play was abysmal.
Edit: actually now that I think back, it was pretty obvious that Lewis was getting doubled more the 2nd game... RA probably made adjustments
This 3rd game, I'm rather uncertain. Peja definitely was pushing it more. He picked up some borderline fouls and really made an effort to keep on Lewis. There's no clear indication, but it looked like he bothered Lewis. He did get slipped by Lewis a few times (most notably in the 2nd quarter). But overall a better than expected job. At least that's what it looked like.
I'll give Peja a C-. The rest of his play was abysmal.
Edit: actually now that I think back, it was pretty obvious that Lewis was getting doubled more the 2nd game... RA probably made adjustments
Last edited:
The bottom line is that Peja needs to mature and develop to the point where he can overcome defenses focusing on him in the playoffs. He clearly has the talent to do this, he just has to put his mind up to it. I don't think Peja or any of us should be satisfied with his performance tonight. We need him to be an effective scorer to win in the playoffs. This was the biggest game of the year following a complete no-show, especially by the the starters in game 2. Everyone expected the players to show alot of pride and to produce in a big way tonight. To come out and basically be invisible is completely unacceptable. I would be alittle worried about Bibby's back right now, since he carried Peja the whole game.
ARCO gets in A++! Great crowd.
I thought Brad had a good game even though he didn't get any assists. He made the jumpers that the Sonics let him do. It's just so funny seeing Brad standing looking for someone to pass to and he's wide open. Thank God he started shooting them.
I'll probably give Pedja a B-. I thought Sonics game plan for this game it seem, was to double Pedja every time he touched the ball. That was the reason why Pedja was having trouble getting open and good looks. I didn't think it was Pedja's that was just not wanting the ball, wanting to be a nobody, etc. Credit goes to Sonics D on him. They did a good job taking Pedja out of his offense. Of course, Pedja should had been more aggresive, but when he did that, he was just forcing shots and missing badly. It wasn't until the 4th Qtr where he started having better looks and making them. He also did great D on Rashard and got a few huge rebounds in the last few mins of the game.
I thought Brad had a good game even though he didn't get any assists. He made the jumpers that the Sonics let him do. It's just so funny seeing Brad standing looking for someone to pass to and he's wide open.
Thank God he started shooting them.I'll probably give Pedja a B-. I thought Sonics game plan for this game it seem, was to double Pedja every time he touched the ball. That was the reason why Pedja was having trouble getting open and good looks. I didn't think it was Pedja's that was just not wanting the ball, wanting to be a nobody, etc. Credit goes to Sonics D on him. They did a good job taking Pedja out of his offense. Of course, Pedja should had been more aggresive, but when he did that, he was just forcing shots and missing badly. It wasn't until the 4th Qtr where he started having better looks and making them. He also did great D on Rashard and got a few huge rebounds in the last few mins of the game.
Last edited:
Peja gets a B- at least. Who knew that he would turn out to be a good defender on a crappy defensive team? Lewis did not get enough spacing to even get a proper shot off. As far as offense goes, he was sub par. But then again the Kings set a grand total of 4 screens, not counting the half-assed ones, for Peja and he nailed 2 of those shots. It looked like the Kings were content to use him to spread the floor and the rest of the guys stepped up and made the open shots. The bottom line is without Peja's defense, we would not have won this game.
Of course, the Arco crowd get an A+. The fans willed the team to the win.
Of course, the Arco crowd get an A+. The fans willed the team to the win.
I'm probably as critical of Peja as anyone on this board but last night I did appreciate his hustle for the most part. One play that illustrates this is late in the game he shot (and missed) a three on the right deep wing, say Lewis sprint the other way and immediately got back in time to breakup the long pass and off of Lewis' hands for a turnover. Couple that with his being +3 in points against his man is at least a moral victory!! I guess it all comes down to expectations...lately I haven't expected much from him and, unfortunately, haven't been disappointed. But his hustle last night was appreciated.
coolhandluke said:
Peja gets a B- at least. Who knew that he would turn out to be a good defender on a crappy defensive team? Lewis did not get enough spacing to even get a proper shot off. As far as offense goes, he was sub par. But then again the Kings set a grand total of 4 screens, not counting the half-assed ones, for Peja and he nailed 2 of those shots. It looked like the Kings were content to use him to spread the floor and the rest of the guys stepped up and made the open shots. The bottom line is without Peja's defense, we would not have won this game.
Of course, the Arco crowd get an A+. The fans willed the team to the win.
Of course, the Arco crowd get an A+. The fans willed the team to the win.
D
AleksandarN said:
Like I said all along Pedja's defense is underrated and undervalued. The thing that pisses me off is his lack of aggression. We need him to nut up period. Demand the ball once in your life Pedja do not be content just to watch other people shoot, demand the fricken ball.
I'd bump Peja up to at least a C... he was on their second best player, and he shut him down. Last night we needed Peja's defense more than his scoring, and he gave us that. So he only had 12 points? We scored 116, we didn't need any more! Peja is really vital to us against the Sonics because he's the only guy on the roster Lewis can't easily shoot over, back down, or beat off the dribble. I'd rather have him using most of his energy on defense, same goes for Mobley on Allen.
And if anyone knows why Tag is wasting away on the bench, please don't keep me in suspense any longer, I am getting ulcers every time I see a Corliss-Peja-Cat frontline.
Awesome game.
~~
And if anyone knows why Tag is wasting away on the bench, please don't keep me in suspense any longer, I am getting ulcers every time I see a Corliss-Peja-Cat frontline.
Awesome game.
~~
I'm just sick of people making excuses for Peja. I think it's more like the Kings were pretty lucky to win with Peja being almost invisible on offense. The team really needed him to have a big night, yet he disappeared once again. Peja's best asset will always be his scoring, his ability to go for 30+, to make nice backdoor cuts, to hit dagger three pointers. We need him to be able to do it. It's mind boggling how he can do it in the regular season, actually averaging 25 a game and being an MVP candidate, but continue be horribly inconsistent in the playoffs. Peja has to want it more, has to get his head on straight. I mean even blind Peja supporters like Voison are writing articles saying that he needs to play better.
The bottom line is Peja laid on egg on offense in the biggest game of the year. His defense was ok, nothing spectacular. Lewis was struggling making open shots like he has the whole series. Peja didn't show up in games 2 or 3 and I don't think anyone knows for sure if we can count on him for the rest of the playoffs. It's an unknown commidity that simply is good enough right now.
The bottom line is Peja laid on egg on offense in the biggest game of the year. His defense was ok, nothing spectacular. Lewis was struggling making open shots like he has the whole series. Peja didn't show up in games 2 or 3 and I don't think anyone knows for sure if we can count on him for the rest of the playoffs. It's an unknown commidity that simply is good enough right now.
Peja did a great job last night despite his lack of scoring. There were not many assists, and he nevr took the ball down-court. The fact is, that between Bibby, Bobby, Mobley, and Brad, Peja had relatively few touches. The guards were throwing it up with gay abandon. There were a number of times that Peja was just standing there wide-open on the wing as Bibby or Mobley took it to the basket or fired-up deep jumpers. Peja completely neutered Lewis, as Lewis neutered Peja. We won.
I'm raising Peja's grade from "B-" to a solid "B".
I'm raising Peja's grade from "B-" to a solid "B".